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Divorce- by country
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Dilated Offline
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Post: #1
Divorce- by country
As we explore more organic and wholesome relationships with women centered around Christ, it’s important to realize that, unfortunately, even a religious woman can and will divorce you. My very religious ex-wife went from ‘I don’t believe in divorce’ to vacating the marital home while I was at work in only 2 years.

7 months and $20,000 in legal fees later and I was divorced. The scary part- we had no kids, no mortgage, no businesses, and had similar incomes.

She burned it all down and made it as painful as possible.

I have internalized the situation and hope to make a better decision if I decide I’m up for Part Deux. Part of being a man is understanding your surroundings and trying to mitigate risks. The direction this forum has taken is a positive one and I think will lead us to better decisions on the front-end...but the back-end risks cannot be ignored.

The punitive nature of divorce in USA coupled with positive interactions with foreign women overseas has led me to consider foreign women in their country. These countries include Bulgaria, Peru, and Colombia.

But, I haven’t the faintest clue how divorce works in any country other than USA. This thread can be a central repository for country-specific matrimonial rules and laws for men looking to understand marriage and divorce risks. Whether you have first-hand information or you’re a lawyer who deals in this world, let’s hear it.

I’ll start us off.

**USA**

The dangerous thing about the USA is the punitive divorce laws coupled with a society that is relationally hostile to men. Upwards of 75% of divorces are initiated by women.

If there is a chasm in your incomes there is a good chance you’ll have to pay alimony. The duration varies by state and income difference. You’re also likely to receive less than 50% of the marital estate.

Even if your incomes are close, the state will use your larger pre-marital assets as justification for giving her more than 50% of the marital estate. For example, if you have investable assets of $500,000 entering the marriage and she has $20,000 there’s no way you’re getting 50% of the marital assets. Much less. My lawyer stated that without a pre-nup my ex-wife would have gotten close to 70% of the marital estate due to asset differences.

You get punished for being fiscally responsible.

If you have kids it’s almost a certainty she will get custody. Very few women are mature enough to negotiate shared parenting with their spouse and leave the courts out of it. They are incentivized to use the courts. Typical visitation schedule for fathers is every other weekend and one day per week.

That 401k you’ve been hard at work building? It’s on the take.

Your business? She can be entitled to some of that, whether it’s income or ownership.

Lawyer fees? How does $550/hr. grab you?

My ex-wife had a secret account that she was funneling money into the entire marriage. It was uncovered during the discovery phase but there was no legal recourse. ‘Unethical at worst’ according to my lawyer.

If her lawyer is any good they will use the threat of court to encourage a settlement- ie. you getting fucked. Rather than an expensive, long drawn out legal proceeding ‘why not just settle?’

You’re sunk. And they know it.

Words haven’t been invented yet in the English language to accurately articulate the anger that scenario causes.

A good part of the emasculation of the modern, western man lies in the current state of marriage- she’s essentially holding a loaded weapon to your head and saying ‘if you don’t like the way I act go ahead and divorce me...and pay me’.

Most men have been beaten into submission by this. Easier to be her lapdog and take the trash out on cue than deal with the state.

To recap, here in the USA you have the courts, society, and your own fiscal responsibility that will be used against you.

Curious to hear how it works in other countries.
(This post was last modified: 11-19-2019 07:37 PM by Dilated.)
11-19-2019 07:34 PM
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doc holliday Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Divorce- by country
I've gone through a divorce and yeah, it can be tough for the man. Thing is though that most guys get scared and just give in without putting up much of a fight. They also usually have shitty lawyers who don't do enough to fight for their male clients. My results were different than yours. My ex wanted me to move out after she filed. I said no, I'm staying in my house until we are done. It's the first thing I said to her after she told me she was divorcing me. I stayed in my house for 1.5 years (divorce got done 6 months after) and moved out only after I had gotten my 50% of parenting time with my kids. Doing this also allowed me to run out the clock on child support for my older kid who graduated high school right around the time I finally moved out. My lawyers got a father friendly Guardian ad Litem assigned to my case who saw that I was a good, involved Dad who needed time with the kids.

I managed to keep my business and real estate associated with my business since my business is a goodwill based business which is not divisible in a divorce. I also had a lot of debt on it too at the time which helped to lower it's net worth which helped me to keep it. We sold the family home and in the end I ended up giving her a grand total of 7K as the asset settlement. She got royally fucked on that score. Now I did get stuck with child support for two kids and some long term alimony, which she since agreed to let go of along with the ending of my child support in 6 months (woo hoo!).

The thing is that I was prepared to lose everything. I didn't care about the material stuff, I figured I could get that back someday. I was even prepared to go to jail if the court had ordered me to pay for the forensic accounting on my business that her lawyer wanted me to pay for, which I refused to do. I made my ex wife's life as miserable as I could during that divorce. I remember one time, she was having a Halloween party in the house and I crashed it, flirted with her friends, drank her wine, joked around with my kids. She was livid with me but there was fuck all she could do about it. I get along great with her now and she has told me that she was furious with me that night. Bottom line is that I didn't roll over and play dead, I knew her weaknesses and I ruthlessly exploited them to my benefit. I won't say I won, but I will say that she lost. Big time. All because I refused to let her get her way. It's the only way to fight.
11-19-2019 09:57 PM
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Graft Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Divorce- by country
I intend to do three things to prevent a divorce:

1. Pick a religious foreign woman who is morally opposed to divorce
2. Gain as much leverage as possible with immediate pregnancy, moving her parents nearby, etc

3. Here's the kicker. Right before we get married, we sit down and have a little chat. I say:

"Honey, I don't ever intend on getting divorced from this marriage. I know you see all the divorces in the US, all the women getting big payouts, all the men working hard every month to make their child support payments. That won't be me. As soon as we get divorced, I'm quitting my job taking a one way ticket to the Philippines where I'll be swimming in barely legal pussy for the rest of my life. I won't ever work again. Not only will you never see a dime of child support and alimony, but you and the children will never hear from me again, save for when I wire them thousands of dollars to rebel against your draconian bitch-ass. If you divorce me, you better find another man to finance you and your four children's lifestyle, because I'm GONE."

I built this empire and I did it by myself. Nobody did it for me. Not Ivana, not Marla. Nobody! ~Donald Trump
11-19-2019 10:36 PM
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WombRaider Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
(11-19-2019 10:36 PM)Graft Wrote:  "Honey, I don't ever intend on getting divorced from this marriage. I know you see all the divorces in the US, all the women getting big payouts, all the men working hard every month to make their child support payments. That won't be me. As soon as we get divorced, I'm quitting my job taking a one way ticket to the Philippines where I'll be swimming in barely legal pussy for the rest of my life. I won't ever work again. Not only will you never see a dime of child support and alimony, but you and the children will never hear from me again, save for when I wire them thousands of dollars to rebel against your draconian bitch-ass. If you divorce me, you better find another man to finance you and your four children's lifestyle, because I'm GONE."

She will hear this as "words words words fear fear beta words empty threats fear beta words words words."

She has to see you as her best option, period. Otherwise, success is unlikely. All the chit-chats in the world won't affect that, except for the worse.
11-19-2019 10:47 PM
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RawGod Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
(11-19-2019 10:36 PM)Graft Wrote:  " As soon as we get divorced, I'm quitting my job taking a one way ticket to the Philippines where I'll be swimming in barely legal pussy for the rest of my life. I won't ever work again. "

I wouldn't tell her in advance, but that's the option I'd take.
Also, any investments and assets gained during the marriage would be owned by a foreign-registered corporation that she would not even be aware of.

I'd be in the Philippines for good instantly and she would not know where the "family" assets are held, which would be offshore. She could take the house and a few thousand bucks, good luck to her.

Did I mention that I have three passports and am 100% willing never to set foot in Australia again?

Sayonara.

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(This post was last modified: 11-19-2019 11:28 PM by RawGod.)
11-19-2019 11:26 PM
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doc holliday Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
I think if you're gonna get married, you can't worry about getting divorced. If you're bringing in significant assets, then you should get a prenup and then keep some money hidden somewhere (cash in a heavy duty fire proof safe somewhere would work). Otherwise, you just need to choose your wife to be as wisely as possible and then let things happen as they happen. Avoiding feminist, lefty women will help increase your odds of success. Most guys that get fucked in divorces get blindsided, they don't see it coming. They think everything is ok when it isn't and the wife is putting out all sorts of signs that she isn't ok. Then they either get soft and want to roll over just to get it done or they flail around and don't fight strategically.

When the topic of divorce comes up pre-marriage, I would just say that "I don't believe in divorce and you should not either. But, if you decide to one day go down that road, you should prepare to suffer greatly as I will show her no mercy." You won't cuck out like most guys do. Guys that are smart, fight hard and exploit their wives many weaknesses can get an equitable result in the event of a divorce. The goal is to make the soon to be ex look like the crazy one to the court in a divorce. Certainly though if you're wanting to marry someone and you've done your due diligence on her, you have to just go for it, work hard to make the marriage work and not think about divorce.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2019 12:21 AM by doc holliday.)
11-19-2019 11:57 PM
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JimBobsCooters Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
I will certainly be planning for the worst so to speak, so will have as many protected assets as possible, I don't care (as much) if she takes 75% of the 50% of my net worth that she knows about but I will have significant offshore assets ready for if it were to happen.

Step 1 though and by far the hardest part is finding a woman that I actually want to marry. In my 30 odd years, I think my count would be at about 3 of women where that went any further than maybe I'm even thinking about it!
11-20-2019 02:35 PM
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Hypno Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
Graft, what you are proposing won’t work for a number of reasons.

As for a prenup, there are limits to what they can do. The law generally already protects your premarital assets as long as you document them and don’t comingle with marital assets

The problem is stuff acquired during the marriage and support payments after the marriage. Prenups can be helpful with the latter but not so much the former. Also, expected facts and circumstances could change. What happens if you marry a Christian who goes bipolar or who changes faith? What happens if you marry someone who earns more than you who becomes disabled? What happens if your ex brings phony criminal charges?

There are six ways to Sunday to get screwed.
11-20-2019 05:01 PM
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Dilated Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
Pre-nups are easy to pick apart. Mine was picked apart because I didn’t disclose a pension that I didn’t even know I had at the time. The opposing attorney used that as leverage for a settlement.

Even if your pre-nup is bulletproof there is still an element of subjectivity if you go all the way to a court judgment. The judge may deem it unfair and delineate assets at their discretion. If you get a female judge just bend over.

The old business adage applies- if you’re going to fail at marriage...fail early. A judge is more likely to split marital assets 50/50 if your marriage is under 3 years. They want to put both parties back to ‘where they were before the marriage’.

For those that think they are going to hide assets so they cannot be taken...good luck. They’re going to find it. Would love to hear from attorneys on legal methods for ‘hiding money’. Perhaps put assets into your parent’s name before marriage?
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2019 05:30 PM by Dilated.)
11-20-2019 05:29 PM
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RE: Divorce- by country
The Philippines is seemingly the only country where divorce is illegal. Separations are on the rise. I met a girl from there and she kept asking me if I was married. I happen to have the Philippines citizenship database and decided to look her up. Next to here name in the married columns was an 'm" for married. At first she refused to talk about it, but later said she was married and couldn't divorce. So she will just get married again, "Why shouldn't I find happiness?"

One option I would be extremely interest in is Malta, which is the only real Conservative country left in Europe. Unfortunately they legalised divorce a few years ago, but it's still less than a third of marriages. It's also one of about 3-4 countries where abortion is illegal in any circumstances.

On the foreign wife game, I think it's generally a must. Even if you have to import. There are a few studies on "mail order brides" and they show they are about 10% likely to end in divorce and I think they tend to be with less impressive, older men.

On Colombia and Peru, I think they could be good options if you happen to have good game and be an extrovert. As an introvert I realised I can't deal with the culture and generally can't keep the girls occupied. They culture is also heavily saturated in all sorts of problems. About half of children have no contact with their father, in Colombia. What it does have going for it is that the girls are often girly and simple. It's also the only place where you can find a lot of young, white girls who will be open to marriages with 10-20 year age gaps, from about 18 and certainly 21. Then there is the language barrier.

But on the other hand I am coming to realise that in this stream you aren't getting to the genuinely best veins of marriage material. The best veins are where you are surrounded by people who don't believe in divorce and will start frog-marching your wife back into your home if she gets ideas of leaving. If you aren't surrounded by such a network the divorce is always liable to slip in.

I'm not sure what I am going to do at the moment, as any woman I can find is at best somewhat marriage-minded. It's not really the most important thing in their life. Such communities aren't that open and if they are abroad there will likely be a language barrier.
11-20-2019 05:35 PM
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Dilated Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
Agree on the comments about Peru and Colombia, Gework. I like EE girls better...they’re a better fit for me. But, language, distance, and cultural integration would be harder than Colombia/Peru in my estimation.

Tough call.
11-20-2019 05:52 PM
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RE: Divorce- by country
Malta isn't conservative anymore. All the girls are feminist liberals and half of their fathers are cheating.

What it actually is- the most obese country in Europe.
11-20-2019 06:12 PM
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Graft Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
I'd love to hear why my proposal wouldn't work.

Stash money in Bitcoin, gold, offshore accounts. When you get hit with the papers, either stick out the divorce and run off after the fact, or run immediately and cash your hidden account.

I built this empire and I did it by myself. Nobody did it for me. Not Ivana, not Marla. Nobody! ~Donald Trump
11-22-2019 08:01 PM
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Dilated Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
^Don’t know enough about the law to answer that. Also very curious to hear about legal ways to hide assets. There must be a way. I’m determined to find out. Will report back.
11-22-2019 08:13 PM
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RawGod Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
Regarding "hiding" assets, it might be difficult or impossible. But what I'm wondering is how the courts can get their hands on your assets if they're overseas? Let's say for years you're sending your savings to a foreign bank account, perfectly legally. And you buy property overseas. I'm thinking from an Australian PoV admittedly rather than the almighty IRS. If you're in the Philippines and your money is sitting in a Hong Kong or European bank account, what can they do?

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11-22-2019 08:24 PM
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DarkTriad Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
(11-22-2019 08:01 PM)Graft Wrote:  I'd love to hear why my proposal wouldn't work.

Stash money in Bitcoin, gold, offshore accounts. When you get hit with the papers, either stick out the divorce and run off after the fact, or run immediately and cash your hidden account.

You're asking the wrong questions. You're asking whether a few likeminded people on forum can find a way to hose you, not whether the most dangerous experts in a multi-billion dollar industry can figure it out after decades of effort and lobbying.

IIRC, they already HAVE a treaties allowing the collection of international child support, they just currently lack the system for doing it. Are you going to gamble a life sentence that they won't figure it out for the rest of your life?

The amateurs WAY underestimate the power and ruthlessness of these courts. They don't need your assets, they assign you a bill (possibly based on income that has never existed). Your passport eventually expires, you return home, and are arrested. You spend the rest of your life bouncing between cycles of degrading incarceration and grinding poverty.

She could do something as simple as move in with some pedo to hold your daughter hostage, forcing you to return to protect your child.
11-22-2019 08:25 PM
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DarkTriad Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
(11-22-2019 08:01 PM)Graft Wrote:  I'd love to hear why my proposal wouldn't work.

Stash money in Bitcoin, gold, offshore accounts. When you get hit with the papers, either stick out the divorce and run off after the fact, or run immediately and cash your hidden account.

LOL at these amatueurs talking about "cashing their hidden account" when the system is so broken you should be asking "How do I eat out of a dumpster while I pay astronomical amounts for forensic accountants to determine whether I might have a hidden account somewhere." In a bitter divorce, the process alone is frequently far more expensive than than your total assets. You're trying to not lose teeth from malnutrition, not coming up with a master plan to live better than 99% of your fellow men.
11-22-2019 08:33 PM
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Post: #18
RE: Divorce- by country
Even if you were successful in hiding assets, often when you get married you don’t have many assets. Overtime, your biggest asset is your earning power where you live during the course of your marriage. So the real risk you need to protect from divorce is getting stuck paying alimony after your marriage. Secondarily, assets acquired during the marriage which by definition your wife will know about because they were obtained during the marriage. Assets you have before the marriage you don’t really need to hide, because in most states in the US the law will protect those anyway, as long as you don’t come in on them with your marital assets
11-22-2019 08:48 PM
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Dilated Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
Ah yes...alimony. I agree with the push for traditional marriage where only the man works....but it does open you up to alimony if you get divorced. You’re absolutely fucked in divorce if your wife stays at home with the kids.

The question is what risk is more palatable? Higher likelihood of divorce but with less severe outcome (modern marriage with both parents working) or less chance of divorce but getting absolutely dragged if you do (traditional marriage with one earner)?

I don’t like my options.
(This post was last modified: 11-22-2019 09:14 PM by Dilated.)
11-22-2019 08:59 PM
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TheMaleBrain Offline
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RE: Divorce- by country
Here is the Israeli angle:

Divorce is legal (of course), but is based on your religion - Jews do it at the Rabbanut (Jewish religious institution), Muslims at the Kadi (Muslim religius person) and Christian (via Preist).
Those are state mandated (meaning it is a state institute).

The basic premise is that it's up to anyone who wants to separate to do it, but if you are a Jew (80% of the population) the man has the option to say NO. In this case you have some power over the other side if you don't want to divorce (you will still need to pay child support). She will not be able to re-marry.
The law has changed recently. The change in law is that the child support payments are based on both parents income (at the time of the divorce) and there are cases (rare) in which the woman pays it.
Property accumulated is split 50-50, and if one does not have prenup - previous property may be divided as well.

divorce rate is under 30% (small variation according to religion/race. E.g. Muslims and Druze are far less likely to divorce).

How much does it costs?
One-time sum option - you pay for one court appearance and the contract negotiations.
This option starts at 15K NIS and up to 35K NIS (~ 4K$-10K$).
Hourly rates - varies between 400NIS up to 750NIS (120$-210$).

How long?
The law requires you to attend 4 sessions of mediation (at a minimal cost of 50$ each). The idea is to try to get a settlement pre-court. Following that you go to trial. That may take ... as long as it takes.

My story
I initiated the divorce (yes, I know I'm one of those 20+%). I lawyered up with one of the top dogs. We went to mediation, which actually made more harm then good. After the mediation, I had to push her for 5 months to complete the agreement. Then the lawyers worked with us for 2 months and we had a deal.
Went to court and approved it.
All in all it was almost a year start-to-finish. And this was considered a "delux divorce" (no fake police calls, very little arguing and the main issues were money and sticking her in our home town and no major difference of opinion or bad blood).
we sold our home and split it 65-35 (I got the lion share).
As a preparation, I was fired just before I initiated the divorce and took a less lucrative job (meaning less income). It happened 3 months before I initiated the process. That helped in calculating child support.

The main issues you need to consider divorcing in Israel:
1. Religion - that impacts the procedure and may impact the agreement.
2. Child support - how many kids and what both sides are making.
3. Lawyer up - advised basically in any country.

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11-23-2019 06:02 AM
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The Black Knight Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Divorce- by country
1. Goto http://www.realworlddivorce.com - All US states and some foreign countries are covered with detailed situations explained by lawyers in respective jurisdictions.

2. That said... you shouldn't get legally married in 2019 USA. The courts are for the most part very corrupt and as the society moves ever more left-wing overall, things will only get worse. Think about guys who got married in the 50's when no-fault divorce didn't exist and then got blindsided 20-30 years later when every state suddenly allowed it (and in turn, got divorced raped due to retroactively applied rule changes later in the game). You can't just think about today's laws, you have to think about where the trend is going 20-30 years from now.

The only way to win is to not play the rigged game.

3. If you MUST get married in the US, you want states that ideally:

3a. Ban lifetime alimony.
3b. Cap child support.
3c. Give de-facto 50/50 custody of kids.
3d. Have a strong case law of respecting pre/post-nups agreements.

4. If you don't get married, you basically only have to worry about child support. If you pick the right state, you can get a rough idea how bad the damage will be due to caps and limits. If a woman harps about wanting to get married for "security", just tell her she will get child support no matter what and deal with it.

Very generally speaking, conservative states (like Texas and Nevada) more often than not have reasonable caps while left-wing states (like Massachusetts) have no caps (or very high caps) AND will often mandate the man pay for all sorts of extra things that go way beyond what is remotely necessary for a child; like forcing the man to pay for college for example.

Personally, I think by not getting married in 2019, the odds of keeping a family together go up significantly since many of the incentives to blow up the family are removed. One hard lesson I've learned with women, especially American women, is you need to maintain as much leverage as possible over them. All it takes for many of them is a bad day, a corrupt female friend, and the possibility of a nice pay day and that's a wrap on the marriage.

Think about it like this.... a woman can either get:

a) 22k/year (capped child support, for example)

vs

b) the house, half your assets/retirement, alimony, and a 60k/year child support...

Believe me, the woman will think twice if option A is her best case scenario; especially if you're a high net worth guy and she enjoys a nice lifestyle by proxy.
(This post was last modified: 11-26-2019 02:47 AM by The Black Knight.)
11-26-2019 02:39 AM
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