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Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
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jcrew247 Offline
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Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
Can anyone give me advice on moving to Amsterdam? It seems to have a good economy and plenty of tech jobs, so getting a job and visa seems possible. It seems easy to get a temp position if a full time job is not possible. I have also heard that the quality of life is good but the real estate is expensive. Thanks!
11-23-2019 01:13 AM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
Never lived in Amsterdam. Been there a few times.

You don't say what nationality you are. That will make a difference. Anyway, you're not Dutch. That's all that matters really.

And you probably know not to call it 'Holland' - it's The Netherlands.

Amsterdam is as anomalistic to The Netherlands as London is to the UK, or pretty much any big popular city compared to its rural and suburban areas. No surprises there.

"The 'Dam" is pretty decadent. On both sides of the scale. You have your typical weed buying/smoking shops/bars like The Bulldog and The Greenhouse Effect which cater to typically British underclass/thugs. The Bulldog was about the worst of it. I'm going on old memories here so take what I say 'cum grano salis'. This isn't a field report or data sheet. Or maybe it is...

Turnover in the bars/shops is high. The Dutch don't like cheapskates who linger for hours on a cup of coffee. They will clank your glasses and clean your table ten times (even though it's clean) so you get the message. They are very welcoming with a big smile to start with and quickly turn sour when the party is over (half an hour later usually unless you are buying more drinks/food). Prices are high, relatively, but not through the roof silly like Paris. It all adds up though if you are bar hopping and get through 4/5 bars in an afternoon. A man can only drink so much coffee.

I'm reporting on this because even though you may not be a tourist, Amsterdam is very much a tourist town. And they don't really like tourists there. In good Dutch progressive fashion: they tolerate them.

You will still be going to the same parts of town, and it's hard to avoid tourists because Amsterdam itself is not such a big place. If you are 'foreign' you will be treated like a tourist. Unless you are with Dutch friends, which may be possible, but unlikely. The Dutch have their own secret 'Law of Jante' kind of thing going on.

Depending on whether you are German/English/Belgian/French/Etc. you will be treated differently. In a subtle kind of way. The Dutch have their bigotries and prejudices as well though they hide it better than most, until the coffee runs out and the party's over! Restaurants are super expensive (good ones) and even good decent ones are not cheap and may often be quite empty and without any customers (or atmosphere).

A Belgian who speaks fluent Dutch will be treated differently to an Englishman who speaks not a word of their native tongue. Not that it would do much good anyway, as no Dutch person will ever talk to you in Dutch because they all speak English. They may reply to you if you speak fluently to them, but then it will switch back quickly to them showing how good their English is. But they will only talk in Dutch when they are among themselves. They are proud like that.

Expect to find the odd group of Dutch people having a few beers/spliffs in the better bars. Acting like they own the place. Not in an arrogant way. I actually like the Dutch very much in fact, and envy them 'to an extent', but there is a definite Us and Them vibe about the place.

Culturally and historically, the Dutch people are seen as somewhat duplicitous. "Dutch courage". "Dutch Captain". "Dutch Anchor". Etc.

All phrases that denote some kind of deceitful behaviour. The Dutch are the masters of deceit. I still like them though. But there is probably a reason why, over the years, they have come to have this reputation. I couldn't say, beyond a surface impression.

Had a studio going with a lad born in Amsterdam. His family lived there while his dad was an international corporate lawyer. They loved it apparently. But he hated the Dutch and Amsterdam especially with a vengeance. And I've never known him to hate anything in his life. Handsome, rich, successful - no bitterness - but boy did he hate the Dutch. Never did find out exactly why.

I met a nice Dutch girl briefly in London, and we exchanged a few letters and maybe the odd phone call. Natasha. Very nice girl. We lost touch.

I also met a strapping six foot Dutch girl on the tube in London when I was on top of my day game. We went out for a few drinks a few times. She even came and slept over at my shitty bedsit one night. Down to earth. No nonsense. Good people.

A recent(ish) ex-gf of mine who was Belgian worked for a while in The Netherlands. She found the men to be weak and the woman to be ball-breakers, but in a very passive-aggressive way. You will learn a lot about the fine art of passive-aggressiveness when dealing with the Dutch, so people tell me. She spoke fluent Dutch (as many Belgian people do), so there was no language barrier.

All of this is my impression that I have aggregated over the years, so as I said: cum grano salis.

Amsterdam is a good place if you have someone with you. Being a single guy is going to be a lot harder to be accepted. This is the same everywhere of course, but amplified in a country like The Netherlands which is very much a progressive Matriarchal society. A Venezualan guy who had lived there for many years explained it to me. "The women have power here" he said.

It's not hard to understand. The Netherlands are/were a great seafaring nation. The men went off to fish/fight and the women were left tending the children/fields. The Dutch women are not pushy in a "I want to see the manager" kind of way - it's more a cold/distant/entitled "Don't you know who I am?" kind of thing. The women are emancipated and the men are emasculated, but hey, they were at the forefront of progressiveness so it makes sense.

They still love their country though and they particularly love their royalty, especially the Queen. "Queen's Day" is a major thing with drunken behaviour and fireworks. I believe it changed recently and now it's "King's Day" - probably the same amount of drunken behaviour and fireworks I should imagine.

They are patriotic people. This doesn't make them bad. It's very endearing actually. Unusual, in fact, in Western Europe I would say.

But I don't know what The 'Dam is like now. It was changing so quickly every time I went back there. I would imagine it's a bit of a hole now. But still with those beautiful houses with the Gables and still with the same junkies on the streets that would meet and greet me every time I went back and would remember me because I would give them some spare change. Finding dark spots on the outer skirts of the town with my g/f, with old junkie friends having the same idea, and fixing up not a hundred yards away. They were everywhere. But beware. They aren't all nice. I would expect there's a lot more of them now.

I went to a bar one night to escape one particular g/f who was breaking my balls. Ended up in a place I'd never been before. They were showing hardcore porn on a video monitor. Not my thing, but hey, it got me away from the old nag. Had this lovely big black woman come and sit next to me. Giving me attention. Being nice. I knew the game. I bought my beers. Even bought one of those pre-rolled spliffs they sell that cost nearly as much as a small bag o' weed. Great spliff! Shit weed. She eventually got a bit mad I hadn't bought her a drink. So she just comes out with it: Eh, aren't you going to buy me a drink? So I bought her a drink. Hell, I even bought her one of those pre-rolled spliffs just to shut her up.

I still remember the numbness, the absolute soul-less experience. But I was glad to get away from my g/f at the time. I'd been in a jail cell 24 hours earlier and was given an ultimatum by the 'detective' in charge: either you go on that trip to Amsterdam or you spend the rest of the weekend in this cell. I'd never been in a cell before (and haven't since). So, you know, I did the right thing. He thought it was highly amusing. This was not my best trip to The 'Dam.

And you can think me a mug for paying a few Gilders for a pre-rolled spliff and buying a drink for a whore, but it was a pittance to me. Some people high-ball, and that is their game. But if I can buy a half-hour of sanity or peace of mind for a few Gilders, I'm good to go. YMMV. MF.

These people are the lowest of the low of course, but depending on your social circles you might be able to tap in to some real high-baller nightlife/social game there. But you need to bring value. Being a nice person or being interesting or being rich won't cut it. It helps to be an artist or a pop-star or a writer, even if only of some denote. Nobodies get nowhere.

As I mentioned, there is a very decadent scene there as well if you know the right people. Being a small time film-maker and purveyor of smut might get you a ticket in to the upper echelons. It's all there. And if you are going to do that kind of thing, it's probably one of the best places in the world to experience it. It is highly stratified. And only the best need apply. You will know if you have been selected or not.

This is just to paint the picture for you. I don't expect you are going there to get stoned or get whipped.

Talking of getting whipped. Without getting in to the secret stuff that goes on there, every one needs to know about the Red Light District. A pitiful place. Where trafficked girls are pimped out by non-natives (but with the implicit blessing of the higher natives who coin in the cash) and get used up by pissed up tourists. Truly sad.

You'll get lost in Amsterdam so be prepared for just ending up there. Amsterdam is a very confusing place the first time or the second time even if drunk. The streets appear to be straight, but in fact, they gently arc around and give a false sense of security that you are going in a straight line when you are not. It's common to just double-back on yourself and end up where you started from! Quite funny really. The locals are used to it and will just laugh at you as you ask directions, yet again, trying to find your way home.

And where is 'home'? We'll come to that in a bit.

Back to the tourists.

I know the British have a bad reputation abroad for being drunks. But The 'Dam for some reason seems to attract the very worst of what this country has to offer. The Scottish in particular love The 'Dam. If you go in The Bulldog (if it is still open) then you will see groups of a dozen lads, with cut and black eyes, busted lips, pumped full of adrenaline and looking for the next fight to prove their manhood, hurting so much as they are after losing the last one. I imagine they just keep going, fighting among themselves until they finally bottom out and hit the wall. Amsterdam can be a nasty place.

If you are by yourself or with a SO, then you will be OK. But be aware. Have situational awareness at all times. People get stabbed there. Try to avoid any places where British people hang out. They are about the worst of the worst. I say this as a Britisher, unashamedly. We don't send our best over there.

I noticed that there are quite a few Americans there though in The 'Dam, and they are always in bigger groups (mixed as well) and much better behaved. They don't even mind hanging out in the cheaper parts such as hostels. Hostels can be good value but you need to be female or a male with a female and younger than 30. If you are 40 and male and single - fuggedaboudit!

The Americans seem to be there more for the culture and don't tend to hang around getting stoned/pissed in the bars. You'll find them visiting the Rijksmuseum or hanging out having a nice picnic in the many open spaces and parks that scatter The 'Dam.

I ended up bumping in to a big pack of them one time on one of my first stays there. In a very cheap hostel. It turned out to be a nice atmosphere. Late at night (10pm) and tired after the first day or so and saving energy for the next day's tourism, we clanked a few beers and chatted some shit. The men were all 6'4" at least with a few probably up to 6'8" (but maybe I was stoned) - they were bloody tall and fit though, for sure. If you are an American you need to be aware of other people that will see you as a target. British people might give you some shit for Trump, but they won't stab you! Well not unless you spill their beer in the Bulldog! :-)

You will be as welcome in Amsterdam if you are American as any other nationality. Coz the colour of money is Green my brother. It's all about dem shekels. But the non-natives might view you in a different light. Keep this in mind, tourist or short-stay expat!

There is a definite kind of apartheid though in Amsterdam (understandable). The Dutch really do like to stick together as much as, if not more than any other nationality. But they are truly Xenophobic, just like the British, they hate anyone (equally) who is not Dutch. "Hate" is probably too strong a word. Just realise there is a pecking order. And those at the top you will rarely see. But they are there. Watching. There is a great sense of always being watched there. At least that's the impression I got.

But there are some good bars there though and some quite big pubs with pool tables and bands and cheap beer and good cheer. All colours and nationalities. Amsterdam can be an exciting place, even for the man of simple pleasures. You don't need to be a connoisseur of dominatrixes to really enjoy yourself there. Though it helps for some. I saw some great bands there and just had a few decent pints with some strangers, and even played a few games of pool with my g/f at the time.

The food on the street is average. Don't expect Haute Cuisine there, generally. It does exist, but you will probably need to book a place days in advance, if not weeks. The street food is kebabs and chips with mayo. And it's not cheap for what you get! Very few people go to The 'Dam for the food. Keep that in mind as well. You'll be in line in the supermarkets with the bums and junkies if you run out of bread at 10pm and need some for breakfast. Tourist or expat - this is your world now.

So, back to 'home'.

Amsterdam has some of the highest property prices in the world IIRC. If not then certainly in Europe. The places are small, or rather, narrow, but high, hence the Gables you see at the top of the buildings typical in Amsterdam along the canals.

[Image: neck-gables-in-amsterdam-760x480.jpg]

Just like old Epstein, those Pianos are not going to hoist themselves!

https://www.amsterdamforvisitors.com/neck-gables/

https://www.amsterdamforvisitors.com/can...se-gables/

You can get just about anything in through those big windows (which are removable) after being hoisted up via the Gables.


Some of the finest examples of architecture you will see anywhere in the world, are here. And some of the finest examples of interior design. Some of these places are like Seventh Wonders of The World! The chances of you being able to afford to live in one are slim. They are mega mega bucks. Plus, IIRC, there is something like an extortionate six months deposit you need to lay down, plus, six months in advance. And no comebacks.

Don't like it? Go live somewhere else. Plenty more suckers potential renters to fill your boots!

And the rent is high too. Wherever you go. Forget about these canal side properties though to begin with.

And whatever you do, don't make any noise! They have laws against that. Just coz you dropped up to 100K ($) for your short stay there, don't go thinking you can annoy the neighbors. Not sure about Amsterdam, but I know in Brussels they have strict laws about hanging your washing out in public (hence why so many launderettes). They take this shit seriously there is all I'm trying to say.

For all the dominatrixes and debauchery, there is a strict code of social conduct that 'everyone' is expected to adhere to.

Shop around for a decent place on the outskirts of The 'Dam. Don't expect too much. Expect to pay through the nose for it. Whether you work from home or have to get in to the centre of town will change your experience. There's a reason why you see so many people just riding a bike through Central Amsterdam - it's easier, cheaper and quicker.


Amsterdam is not like the rest of The Netherlands. Just like London is not like most parts of the UK. But the Dutch still rule it. With an iron fist.

As a foreigner, you will always be seen as a tourist to those that don't know you, which will be most people as it is a very transitory place with a lot of people passing through.

The culture is the best in the world (Rijksmuseum) and also the worst in the world (The Bulldog).

It's expensive.

It's lonely if you don't have a family/friends.

But if you have a good job, and you can keep your head down, there are worse places to be I am sure.


I know people who had stuff going there in various capacities and they got burned. Suffice it to say, the Dutch will always side with the Dutch. Don't let the facade of 'tolerance' and 'progressiveness' fool you. These people are very much out for themselves.

Look out for yourself and you'll be ok. I'm sure someone else will chip in with a more recent and up to date 'report'. Just my rambling thoughts...


And for any Dutch people on the forum I offended - not my intention. I've had some of my best experiences in this life in Amsterdam and some of the best people I've ever met have come from there as well.

But you'll know it's a harsh, brutal and unforgiving place unless you are super-connected or wealthy. It's for high-ballers. Everyone else needs to learn their place. *

If you can get your head down, be humble, have realistic expectations, I would say this is probably one of the top places on the planet to spend some time, still.

I have other tales to tell about Amsterdam, but that's enough for now. My friend stayed at '11' where Osho had a squat going back in the late '90's. Now that is a story and a half!.

Hopefully this gives you a bit of flavour, jcrew247.


*
By 'learn your place' I just mean be realistic. I met an ex-sqauddie who was teaching Wing Chun to local 'Dam women. Hard bastard with tattoos on his neck. But who had earned them. Lovely bloke. Bought me a pint. Didn't smoke dope. Was with his stunning six foot Scottish wife and their 18 month old baby. My g/f at the time was cooing over her.

They probably didn't live in one of those big Gabled Canal side properties and I doubt they went to those 'exclusive' fetish places. But they were real people. They were glad to meet and mix with a decent couple from the UK (we do exist) and have a drink or two and spend some time. Good people. Good times. Alles Klar!

They probably only got to live there another year or two, if that. And with the cost of living, I doubt they made 'bank'. But sometimes life is about dem shekels and sometimes it's just about the experience.


Amsterdam is very transitory.



Get over there.

It won't be there in 10 years time. Grab it while you can.


Carpe Diem.
11-23-2019 06:33 PM
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Sherman Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
I lived in the Netherlands years ago. I got a high tech visa. It was pretty good. It allowed you to get a Dutch driver's license without taking any test (a big deal) and exempted you from some taxes. It also gets you residence and I think it was in 5 years you are eligible for citizenship. You have to get a big tech company to sponsor you for high tech jobs where Dutch workers are in short supply. Since the Netherlands is a small country they can end up not having qualified workers for some positions.

Rico... Sauve....
11-24-2019 01:50 AM
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Lime Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-23-2019 06:33 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  As I mentioned, there is a very decadent scene there as well if you know the right people. Being a small time film-maker and purveyor of smut might get you a ticket in to the upper echelons. It's all there. And if you are going to do that kind of thing, it's probably one of the best places in the world to experience it. It is highly stratified. And only the best need apply. You will know if you have been selected or not.

I'm curious what kind of decadent scene you are talking about. More money splashy decadent or more bohemien hippy decadent?
11-24-2019 07:25 AM
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SomeOneSomeWhere Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
The Netherlands is nice on the surface. Generally pretty clean and safe, not total decay muslim and welfare hell like in the German border cities.

For work dutch people will get preference, management is usually an exclusive dutch old boys club with no foreigners, tech salaries are ok but there aren't that many tech companies so if you lose your job or you find out that the company sucks and you want to stay you'll have a bad time probably.

Housing wise dutch people are neck deep in debt and can't afford their own city anymore. Young dutch in Amsterdam living with parents forever is pretty much the norm, which means more xenophobia if you have a good job and they're struggling.

Renting is difficult and expensive. If you don't earn 3-4x your gross income in relation to the rent forget about being able to rent a place and you will have to compete with dozens for the handful available rooms. Check funda.nl to get an idea. Not earning a lot is an easy route to homelessness in Amsterdam...

Downtown is tourist zone and locals only go there to party with a few rich kid dutch guys going through the mandatory living a year or two on Herengracht phase.

Dutch people all speak great English but if you have no local roots you will probably never find full acceptance among them. That doesn't matter though because they are generally friendly and easy enough to get along with.
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2019 09:45 AM by SomeOneSomeWhere.)
11-24-2019 09:34 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
You sure know a lot about Dutchland Rigsby.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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11-24-2019 04:29 PM
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Sherman Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
Renting an apartment is more complicated in the Netherlands than in the US.

One strange thing about apartments in the Netherlands, is that they tend to rent them without floors. When you walk into the apartment there is just bare cement on the floor. People tend to live in the same place for a long time so someone may want carpet whereas another person may want wood laminate.

I finally found an apartment with a wood laminate floor and before signing the lease had to negotiate with the previous renter to buy his floor. Another thing is there are no lights and no drapes. I had to wire the lights in myself, and I put in the drapes. To put in the drapes you have to drill through Dutch concrete which is extremely hard. I had to rent a special industrial drill from a hardware store that could make holes in the concrete.

There is a formal lease signing and when you move out an agent of the company comes to your apartment and expects everything against their records to make sure it is exactly the same as when you first rented it.

Rico... Sauve....
11-24-2019 05:05 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-24-2019 01:50 AM)Sherman Wrote:  I lived in the Netherlands years ago. I got a high tech visa. It was pretty good. It allowed you to get a Dutch driver's license without taking any test (a big deal) and exempted you from some taxes. It also gets you residence and I think it was in 5 years you are eligible for citizenship. You have to get a big tech company to sponsor you for high tech jobs where Dutch workers are in short supply. Since the Netherlands is a small country they can end up not having qualified workers for some positions.

My ex who spoke fluent Dutch (as well as excellent English, more than passable German, and a little French) got on Ok there. From Belgium.

People from there are more likely to be accepted before others from different parts of the world, even though they aren't Dutch. The Netherlands is simply too small to provide all the high-level lawyers/doctors/engineers they need. But keep in mind that education there is among the best in the world. And Dutch people have very high IQ's - they are very very clever people. Though they have their proles and now their gimmegrants to deal with now too which will only dilute the pool.

They are so strapped for space in fact that they go against very nature itself! Building sea defences that actually work. Dutch engineering along with Scandinavian engineering for bridges/causeways is rightfully seen as the best in the world. Just like the Bolivians got the Austrians in to build their cable cars to the tops of their mountains. Not so many mountains in the Low Lands! And not so much need for sea defences in a land locked country like Austria! :-)

The Dutch really do look out for themselves. This is not a criticism. Just an observation. But it needs to be noted because there is all this tolerant progressive bullshit at the heart of their culture as well. All very well and good. But now the chickens are coming home to roost. We'll see how that plays out for them in the next 10/20 years. A bit of jungle fever goes a long way. And trying to help those that don't and won't ever respect you only goes so far.

My ex got sponsored as she was an exceptionally talented programmer. I met her through 'hacker' friends in fact. She never fitted in. Not because she was a woman, but because she was Belgian. And you can't get closer to a Dutch person than a Belgian person who speaks the same very language. But she didn't have much respect for the Dutch either. Then again, she really really disliked Germans. But she wasn't a bigot, she just had her experiences.

If you move around the computer software field, then there are several countries that come up top every time. Funnily enough, Germany is in the very Top 3 of the list. Those Germans aren't just clever, they are industrious too. The Netherlands might not be in the Top 3 - but they are definitely right at the top somewhere. Top 5? Top 10?

But as you say, there just aren't enough of them. The Dutch are very good businessmen and would love a greater higher IQ workforce to have at their disposal. But despite their better education and generally higher IQ, there just won't ever be enough people to fill that gap. And if you really are that high IQ and not spergy about it, you will get others to work for you.

But even though the Dutch excel at high tech, they also excel in other fields: shady shell companies, legal...

Again, this is just my impression. I'm not an authority on the subject at all.

A good example might be the fact that weed is technically illegal in The Netherlands. Yet, you can stop and ask directions from a policeman with a 5-Skin spliff in your hand. And you can go in to establishments to buy it up to about half an ounce or so (I forget now), and you can even smoke it in there too!

But. And it's a big 'But', the growing of it is highly illegal - it's not allowed, but it still goes on. Some things are more tolerated than others in the Netherlands. This is why they are seen as being duplicitous. The 'higher ups' still profit from that 'illicit' trade. At the very highest levels. Imagine how much money they must make with such a ready-made distribution mechanism (thousands of coffee shops). It takes very little resources to grow massive amounts of weed. *

Ok, you need to know what you are doing and you need to invest in infrastructure, but then...

The mark up on weed must be incredible. Easily doubling/tripling/quadrupling initial investment. And all with a certain 'imprimatur' to be allowed to be one of those that certain people in power are 'tolerant' towards. Be sure, that those that don't grease palms or those that go against the grain and try to branch out too far get raided.

In fact, in recent times they are really clamping down. They are sick of their border buddies hopping over for the day to buy a good pile of weed and get stoned for the day. They are passing laws that say if you are not a Dutch resident you can not buy in their coffee shops. They want to sell it to you, they want your money, they just don't want to have to have any of the shit that goes with it. Boo fucking hoo.

The Dutch are clever. They run a strict hierarchy. Fuck knows what all that immigration BS is about because there are only so many black girls you can pimp out to Dutch men with jungle fever. Lots more Eastern European girls to go around...

That late and great Welshman Howard Marks has written much about the Dutch - he's someone else that didn't care for them. It's too much of a long story to go in to here. But it's out there on the net if you care to search. Basically, the Dutch were never to be trusted at any level. He got ripped off more times and in more ways by the Dutch than any other country on earth. And his main operation was centred there for a long time. To this day, there still rages fierce debates about the origins and the lineage of certain popular strains of weed.

Like I say, the Dutch make out to be this bastion of free world progressiveness and doing it 'for the kids' but at the heart of it lies a strict line of command and deep hypocrisy. This has not gone unnoticed.

Just telling it how I see it in my very limited experience. Cum grano salis. I'll call out black people for certain stuff. I'll call out African people for other stuff. I'll call out my own countrymen for many things. And I'll call out the Dutch too. You make your own mind up.


*
Actually, growing weed is about the most worst thing you can do for the planet. It takes massive resources to get that mythical 1 gram per watt. It is extremely 'un-green' shall we say. But I was talking from a certain perspective. In the Netherlands they have whole-scale warehouse growing of this stuff. As long as you don't mind burning a whole load of trees and don't care about the environment at large, then it's all good. It's not difficult - it's just exponentially environmentally unfriendly.
11-24-2019 06:03 PM
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Rigsby Offline
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-24-2019 07:25 AM)Lime Wrote:  
(11-23-2019 06:33 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  As I mentioned, there is a very decadent scene there as well if you know the right people. Being a small time film-maker and purveyor of smut might get you a ticket in to the upper echelons. It's all there. And if you are going to do that kind of thing, it's probably one of the best places in the world to experience it. It is highly stratified. And only the best need apply. You will know if you have been selected or not.

I'm curious what kind of decadent scene you are talking about. More money splashy decadent or more bohemien hippy decadent?

Well, both actually.

I came in from a few different angles with this.

First as a tourist and just going over because it's close and not too expensive - The Dutch speak English and my time in France told me the French only speak English half the time. It was a good place to hang out. Oh yeah, I used to like smoking weed when I was younger.

Secondly with friends that went there as hippies and hung out at places where Osho had a commune. Then there were their friends who I knew too. Quite a few!

Thirdly, and totally unrelated, an ex-g/f who I kept in touch with that ended up getting shacked up with an international film maker and was already filthy rich (via shipping and haulage) but made high end bespoke porn films for the ultra-rich. Obviously can't talk too much about that here now, but I have alluded to it before on my previous posts.


On the ground, as a tourist, it's sad. Smack heads nicing you up for a few Guilders to get enough together to get a fix. Whores in bars that put you in a difficult position (you aren't whoring with them, but they come up and talk to you and won't go away). Load of Irish who stick together and loads of Scottish who stick together and will fight as readily among themselves let alone their fellow UK brethren. Sad, lonely broken men going through divorces. Young naive impressionable kids thinking this place is a mecca to the enlightened while they get nickeled and dimed for yet another coffee.

So that is one angle. I also met some great Greek guys who I chatted with about Plato and music. It's not all bad. Just most of it. If you stay long enough.


The other angle - the bohemian hippy scene - well I never got caught up in that. Though I had very close friends who did. The place that Osho had going there was a free for all for drugs and sex. You needed to know someone to get in. But if you did, oh boy...

I was going to go over there myself. I was in to that at the time. Not the sex. I've always been against that. I mean, free sex. I could always pick and choose and would never lower myself. I've always had high standards. But I was up for the general free for all and drugs bit. Just weed, nothing stronger. I thought it might be fun.


And then the final angle that came out of nowhere. It's hard to talk about this here now, but Amsterdam is a place where films get made. If you design certain types of clothing and if you make certain types of films, then Amsterdam, while pretty much keeping it on the downlow is/was a place where certain types of decadence took place. I'm talking consensual stuff. I really wouldn't know about anything else.

I've alluded to this before. Everyone can be bought. Some people do it to make rent and get by. Others like doctors or lawyers do it to buy a villa in Spain. Some girl from EE will be cheaper than some upper class lawyer from the UK, but both can be bought and it's still chump change to those with real cash.

Suffice it to say, films got made. People got bought. No one was best friends after, but there you go. I only touched upon this stuff - I was not involved - it's secondhand information. I saw a few things along the way to lead me to believe it was genuine.


I'm curious what kind of decadent scene you are talking about. More money splashy decadent or more bohemien hippy decadent?



So to answer your question: both!

In fact, just thinking about it, sometimes those paths crossed as well.

I'm surprised more of this stuff doesn't make its way out in to the wider world, but I guess if you were there you just want to keep it quiet. I was on the peripheries, so I don't have a problem talking about it (little that I know).

I have a lot of weird stories to tell. Just being in a certain place at a certain time. Connecting people from different walks of life. This is what fascinates me about Epstein and Savile. They weren't pimps as such, they were high-end facilitators.


What if you are a filthy rich international corporate lawyer and you want some Goth girls to play with for a weekend? You can't just go out there yourself and get them. But what if your g/f at the time used to make outfits for both the Goth girls and the filthy rich ICL's? And what if you used to hang out at those clubs now and again (Slimelight) and people knew you and trusted you? And what if you had a 'budget'?

As I said before, it was never about sex or pimping. It was just about bringing people together to party. Maybe you needed to be there. Sure, stuff went on now and again. We won't talk about that here.


And just to bring it full circle, I ended up 'squaring the circle' when many disparate groups of people turned out to know each other, and I knew them too! It's a small world.

Amsterdam I'm talking about here. It's a major hub. Look at its location. Look at its reputation for 'tolerance'. It's also a major financial hub as well as a major tech hub.

It's not surprising that many roads meet and many paths cross there.


Money people. Bohemian seekers.
11-24-2019 06:46 PM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-24-2019 09:34 AM)SomeOneSomeWhere Wrote:  The Netherlands is nice on the surface. Generally pretty clean and safe, not total decay muslim and welfare hell like in the German border cities.

For work dutch people will get preference, management is usually an exclusive dutch old boys club with no foreigners, tech salaries are ok but there aren't that many tech companies so if you lose your job or you find out that the company sucks and you want to stay you'll have a bad time probably.

Housing wise dutch people are neck deep in debt and can't afford their own city anymore. Young dutch in Amsterdam living with parents forever is pretty much the norm, which means more xenophobia if you have a good job and they're struggling.

Renting is difficult and expensive. If you don't earn 3-4x your gross income in relation to the rent forget about being able to rent a place and you will have to compete with dozens for the handful available rooms. Check funda.nl to get an idea. Not earning a lot is an easy route to homelessness in Amsterdam...

Downtown is tourist zone and locals only go there to party with a few rich kid dutch guys going through the mandatory living a year or two on Herengracht phase.

Dutch people all speak great English but if you have no local roots you will probably never find full acceptance among them.
That doesn't matter though because they are generally friendly and easy enough to get along with.


The Dutch are very charismatic people, in a quiet kind of way. They have a strange ability to make you feel like their new best friend if they want.

But it's a small place. It's a very central location in Europe and a very neutral location, legally as well. There is a reason why it is so expensive there and it's not because of an influx of dope smokers from the UK and Germany.


It is known to be a very expensive place to rent property - forget about buying. As you say, many hoops. It is notorious.

The quality of life will only be so so.

The Dutch are as xenophobic/bigoted/racist as the Japanese!


Many people on planet earth need to work on their 'human' game!

The Dutch people do too!
11-24-2019 06:58 PM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-24-2019 04:29 PM)Vladimir Poontang Wrote:  You sure know a lot about Dutchland Rigsby.

Not really.

Most of my info is secondhand. But it's solid secondhand info. I house sitted for people coming back from there. I even house sitted for people that used to live there.

It's close to where I live. And a few coincidences and synchronicities thrown in to the pot as well!

Sometimes you can just learn just enough about a certain culture. I like the Dutch, believe it or not. But I don't feel like I need to learn more about where they are coming from.

lol
11-24-2019 07:03 PM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-24-2019 06:58 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  It is known to be a very expensive place to rent property - forget about buying. As you say, many hoops. It is notorious.

Actually most dutch people are pretty much forced to buy because they don't make enough to rent to satisfy landlords and mortgages even for low income earners were always readily available. Prices for buying are better than Berlin for example, which is a nasty shithole full of hobos, rapefugees and forever on welfare white trash communist sympathizers.

I guess the globalists set things up this way to debt trap the population, which makes people more compliant in order to save their ass from homelessness.
11-25-2019 03:51 AM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-25-2019 03:51 AM)SomeOneSomeWhere Wrote:  
(11-24-2019 06:58 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  It is known to be a very expensive place to rent property - forget about buying. As you say, many hoops. It is notorious.

Actually most dutch people are pretty much forced to buy because they don't make enough to rent to satisfy landlords and mortgages even for low income earners were always readily available. Prices for buying are better than Berlin for example, which is a nasty shithole full of hobos, rapefugees and forever on welfare white trash communist sympathizers.

I guess the globalists set things up this way to debt trap the population, which makes people more compliant in order to save their ass from homelessness.


I don't know that much about it, so I'm sure what you say is true. Like I said, just going on old second-hand information.

I'm surprised prices are better than Berlin though, but then again, maybe that makes sense. Berlin is a bit of a mini Silicon Valley as well, and Germany is in the top 3 of all Software Developers on the planet. IIRC. That probably drives prices up.

Things can only get so much more decadent. They can only get so much more expensive.

I lived south of Berlin in Saxony in a small place and though it's a beautiful country, it was still small town rural petty attitudes. You go from devil-worshiping progressiveness in Berlin then go a few miles south and end up in pre-Victorian England.

I wouldn't have been surprised to see Witchfinders there. Then again, that might have not been such a bad thing. Though I think their time would have been better spent in the north!

It's all fucked.

If you weren't born there or grew up there, if you didn't live there for many years, you sure as shit aren't moving in to there and making any kind of life there. Unless you don't mind keeping your head down and being a good little mouse. Forget about having a voice in their community. Even if you did 'speaka da lingo' and Sprechen Sie Deutsch, it wouldn't help much, inselaffen!

The Germans in the small villages and hamlets to the south are every bit as bigoted and close-minded as their brethren to the north are decadent and depraved.

I could never afford to buy a house there. And if I could, that would certainly not be the place I ended up splashing my cash. That goes for anywhere in Holland and anywhere in Germany, btw.
11-25-2019 10:13 PM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
Rigsby, as a Dutchman I love your post. It is maybe overly dramatical and a tad exaggerated, but I still like it, as it is also very intriguing.

There is indeed more than the general nightlife area, and to discover those scenes you need to spend a lot of time and know a lot of people. Indeed there are both the money-circles and the bohemien hippie circles that are both elitarian in their ways.

In summer, boating culture is very big in Amsterdam.

German people are culturally more closely related to the Dutch than the Flemish. The Flemish and the Dutch are said to be the most culturally divided groups who speak the same language (Flemish and Dutch people are much more culturally alien to each other than Mexicans and Guatemalans, Americans and Canadians, Moroccans and Algerians, etc). Flemish have a more Romanic culture, the Dutch Germanic.

Why do you think the current Amsterdam is not going to be around in 10 years? Of course I know the demographics are changing. But in 10 years the changes will not be too dramatic I think. However, my generation (late 80s and early 90s) was still big in terms of the number of people, the next generations are much smaller. That will for sure make an impact.
12-01-2019 10:35 AM
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Post: #15
RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
I am a Dutch, dark-skinned, 165cm. After being active for 8 years in the PUA community, I can say that it can be quite tough to game girls since 80% of Native Dutch girls are taller than 170cm. Aside from that, with the power of social media, all the control has shifted in their favor. It is like the typical Western Dating scene where one girl at least has 4 guys that she is ''talking'' to.

If you are 185cm, then you are good to go. If you are 185cm and Italian or have Italian features, their panties will drop. Dutch girls love Italians.

HOWEVER, on the hand, what you can also do, is...forget about the Dutch girls. There are plenty of other ex-pats in Amsterdam who are quite eager to meet you.

Amsterdam can be a great place to game if you are above intermediate-gamer, for newbies I would not recommend this place. Not at all.

PS: It is scary how much Rigsby knows about The Netherlands O_O
12-03-2019 05:48 AM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
I've a pal who lives in Utrecht & says it's the far better place to live of the two. Way less international, & more chilled. I have no experience of the Netherlands myself, but he's generally a fairly shrewd chap, so i'll take his word for it.
12-03-2019 12:00 PM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(12-03-2019 12:00 PM)Elmore Wrote:  I've a pal who lives in Utrecht & says it's the far better place to live of the two. Way less international, & more chilled. I have no experience of the Netherlands myself, but he's generally a fairly shrewd chap, so i'll take his word for it.

I agree with this. It's like Amsterdam is completely different from the rest of the Netherlands. Utrecht, Den Haag, Breda, Leiden, and most of the other cities seem to have a similar vibe that's like normal Dutch, compared to the Red Light District/Tourist district area of central Amsterdam. If I lived and worked in the Netherlands, I'd live outside Amsterdam.

Also, I've had a lot of Dutch people call it Holland while I was there, even though I actually was in North Brabant. I often say Holland, because it has less syllables, so it's easier to say.

If I lived in the Netherlands, I'd be sure to live within easy walking distance of a nice centrum. If you live on the outskirts of town, there may still be stores and restaurants and bars within a short distance, but the atmosphere is not nearly as good. Also, some towns really don't have a historic centrum, just generic middle of town. You want to have easy walking access to a historic centrum.

Of course, with a bicycle, you could probably reach downtown in a few minutes from anywhere. Still, I'd rather live within easy walking distance, and then it would be even faster with a bike.

I'm the tower of power, too sweet to be sour. I'm funky like a monkey. Sky's the limit and space is the place!
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12-04-2019 05:09 PM
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
(11-23-2019 06:33 PM)Rigsby Wrote:  And you probably know not to call it 'Holland' - it's The Netherlands.

Probably people who say such are not from the historical region of Holland.
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RE: Moving to Amsterdam and Quality of Life
Rigsby, I wonder what you expect of the future of Amsterdam.

Many institutions and people expect a continuing urbanisation, in which Amsterdam would prosper.

But I’m not so sure:

Negative forces:

-Low fertility in the Netherlands, and low amounts of children (less Dutch people who want to live in Amsterdam

-Immigration of lowly educated people -> leading to formation of ghettos.

-Even lower fertility in other European countries (so lower amounts of workforce and international students)

Hollowing out of the middle class, too much wealth flowing to the Googles/Amazons of the world.

Neutral to positive forces:

-Life expectancy on the rise, will we live to 120?

Positive forces:

-Higher living standard in China and emerging countries, attracting them to Western cities.

What will Amsterdam and other premium Western cities be around 2075?
Today 08:56 AM
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