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What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
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Snag87 Offline
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What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
What responsibility do men bear for the current dating market/social environment? I believe most would agree that the majority of men are weak when it comes to women. Their behavior leaves this undeniable. Men will stab each other in the back, willingly sign legal contracts that render them slaves to the state, forsake their beliefs, and risk their livelihoods. All for the potential approval and sexual services of women.

However, I believe one could argue that this is simply to the natural state of things due to genetic factors outside of our control. Men could easily work together as a cohesive group to advance their own self interest. Unfortunately, I'm unsure it would lead to a more desirable society. Should men continue to differ their self-interests and chose to continue to primarily be economic providers and protectors?
12-04-2019 08:57 PM
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kel Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
Being a provider and protector is the essence of manhood. The question is, providing who and protecting what? The state makes all men providers to and protectors of the state's interests.

To answer your question, men bear all the responsibility, because women only do what men permit and encourage. One individual man might be able to deny responsibility for this or that, but men as a class created (via action or inaction, it's unimportant which) the reality we now live in.
12-04-2019 09:33 PM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-04-2019 08:57 PM)Snag87 Wrote:  What responsibility do men bear for the current dating market/social environment?

Men currently in the dating scene? Virtually none. All of the social changes and crazy laws were in place before I could even vote. The 2 generations before me were lazy and weak, raising horrible daughters and creating the mess we have.
12-04-2019 10:33 PM
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whitewashedblackguy Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
I put it between men letting themselves get pussy whipped and single motherhood. My experience with mom giving me bad dating advice, on top of making me look like a mamas boy and nit picking every little thing I did didn’t help me at all. The internet didn’t help either until I found Roosh, Victor, and others. Real easy to get dupe into thinking gender isn’t real, you know. I’d put it on bad parenting, shit rolled down hill after that.

But like they say, strong men create good times, and good times create weak men. We know what happens after that.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-04-2019 10:55 PM
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gework Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
The crux of the issue is that there have been social changes that have changed the balance in the value of female and male attention. Western women are snowed in attention, and thus it's of little value. Meanwhile for most Muslims have roughly equal value in attention through parental/social regulation of the sex market; and the economic dominance of men tips the market overall in favour of men.

The change in The West has exposed genetic differences that were previously obscured. And they were obscured as some of our forebears had previously observed the mayhem of promiscuity and successfully mitigated much of it. The only solution is men, again, doing the same.

Until you can roughly bring the value of male and female attention to the same level, men will continue to debase themselves for sex. Recently I was in Turkey and explained to a girl that I see men in my country getting women pregnant in an attempt to lock down female genitalia; and low quality genitalia at that. She said, "Oh. In Turkey it's common for women to do this. I can't imagine men doing it."

A promiscuous society will hasten the metarmorphosis of men into women; and probably gays too. When the majority of men are scrabbling around, dipping down 1, 2 SMV points in an attempt to get something they are forced to devalue themselves. They don't like to think about it, but deep down they see themselves as low-rate faggots. They should be average guys. It has been said on the board many times that there is an increase in average men in relationships with whales. I know one who is with a whale 22 years older than him. No one dare say anything to him, but behind his back everyone has devalued his status to below that of his whale, yet he is an average guy with potential. The whale is beyond all hope and probably won't be around much longer.

A big part of this is that the more desirable men are staying on the market for longer, when they would have previously been off the market quickly in order to sate their sex drive. Once they are off the market it would allow the lesser men to take the lesser women off the market; and so on...

It's no more feasible that individual men are all asked to change their behaviour than it is to expect everyone to voluntarily behave under the rules of liberalism, capitalism etc. If you are chad, you will fornicate up. If you have money, you may run through quasi-prostitutes. The only way out as a society is imposed rules and social ostracisation.

As an individual you can take it into your own hands by swearing off the modern dating market and placing yourself in the remnants of the heritage courtship market. Something that will require you to take the god pill and then work hard to find opportunities.
(This post was last modified: 12-04-2019 11:23 PM by gework.)
12-04-2019 11:12 PM
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WombRaider Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
I don't think it's useful to assign blame. What we need to do is figure out ways to move forward on a practical basis.

The issue is that about 70 percent of women in the west are overweight/obese. Guys don't want them. You get 100 percent of guys competing for the 30 percent of women who are height-weight proportionate.

Our biology is based on the conditions of 100,000 years ago. The ugly or obese woman back then was a 2. Our brain still sees her as a 2. But actually, if you do a smooth distribution on the full population of today's women, she's a 5.5. She might be 350 pounds and with horse-like facial features, but she's still better than 55 percent of the women out there.

To mitigate hypergamy, you need to be at least 2 SMV points above your long-term mate. So if you're a 7.5, that horsey-looking obese woman is a good choice. If you're a 5.5, she's actually out of your league! Your brain doesn't feel that way, because it's disregarding all but the top 30 percent. You need to retrain your brain to include the whole distribution.

We have to deal with the conditions of today. Find you a landwhale, my friends. Unless you are a male 9 or 10 (spoiler alert: you're not), you belong with a land whale. Find one and lock her down.

You'll thank me later.
12-05-2019 01:46 AM
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Snag87 Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
I've seen similar sentiments posted here. Your post clearly illustrated the issue. I had never thought of it before but you're correct, what I've previously viewed as a 3 is far higher. Obviously, a significant portion of the male population is overweight, but male SMV isn't predicted on physical appearance to nearly the same degree as female.

I just met a girl on POF tonight. 19, sweet, smart and grounded. Not much of a looker but definitely not hideous. A few days ago I would have rejected here. No longer
12-05-2019 02:12 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
Womb raider is incorrect because he fails to correctly gauge male SMV. He looks at men the way he looks at woman and thinks that because men value looks that women also rate a man on that basis.

The reality is that what he sees as a male 7 dating a female 5 is actually a male 5 dating a female 5 because the male is not rated among women by his looks. He's rated by his levels of masculinity. In truth he might be a male 4 or even a 3 if he looks good but is in essence a prissy pretty-boy bitch.

When you learn this truth and internalize it then 95% of all pairings you witness suddenly seem to make perfect sense and you also realize that the male market is just as broken down and degraded as the female market. Alternately you can go to places like /pol and see delusional terms like "looksmatch" entering into commonality. The idea that men and women should both be rated on how photogenic they are and if they're not dating accordingly then the market is somehow broken.

Laugh4

What never seems to get attention from these delusional blokes is when someone ugly as sin is smashing hot girls day after day. How does this happen? Well its' because that bloke doesn't have much blood in his testosterone stream. Granted, dating apps have skewed this to a degree but only to the extent of getting a first date. Even a fatty will send a man-puss home with blue balls if he lacks the required levels of masculinity to seal the deal.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2019 03:33 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-05-2019 03:31 AM
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hkhathaj Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
I agree with that at the end men are responsible not women because men have the agency to direct society and women only do what they are approved to do. Men have let them free and that's why they became undirected.

The original sin was the first wave of feminism: letting women to vote, give them extra rights, etc. Since then the marriage contract also began to dissolve.

So I agree that most harm was done before our current generation. But that does not mean that we do not have a responsibility! I think that it is the responsibility of a man to understand his world and make the best of it for himself and his family. And for this reason the men who do not find the truth - basically the red pill of the Woman Question - and who do not do their best to apply that on their life are also responsible.

Most men have a chance to find the truth. They have at least a few red pilled friends or they find some truth on the Net. But at the end they are afraid of the truth or ignorant or whatever and they stay blue-pilled. And at that point it is on them self.

This could sound harsh that people are responsible for the knowledge that they don't have. Especially because people become ignorant morons due to their lack of proper upbringing by parents. But still it is a man's duty to find knowledge and improve himself. Otherwise it would not be possible get out of a bad state of the society.

Even if someone was raised fatherless by a toxic mother or if he is an orphan then still he is responsible himself for his life. The circumstances can't be blamed forever.

More knowledge means more responsibility. For this reason men who have the red pill knowledge but don't improve themselves and their own circle have even more responsibility than the morons who don't even have knowledge. This is also a harsh fact.

There is no man without deficiency. Everyone has sins. You have to own them and work against them but you have to accept yourself as a lesser being than God because that is what you are.

TLDR: all men share the responsibility since the first wave of feminism until today who did not stand up against it. If you do your best to improve yourself and raise a trad family then you are not responsible but you are the respectable one who stood. Men should aim for this.
12-05-2019 04:32 AM
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Vladimir Poontang Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
What some people call an attractive female is merely one that puts on make up and dresses in a titillating way. Most males are idiots and don't know how to judge female beauty properly. They think that because their eyes are being stimulated that they're looking at something beautiful. And sometimes what they're looking at may even be a tranny but they can't see it.

That's not how we do things in Russia, comrade.

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12-05-2019 04:51 AM
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
It is men's fault for not controlling their women, giving them freedom to vote, letting them work outside the home.

Similarly men are on the hook for allowing and encouraging their daughters to behave in slutty ways, not marrying them off as virgins.

Ultimately, men are in control, not women.

For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22
12-05-2019 04:58 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-04-2019 11:12 PM)gework Wrote:  A big part of this is that the more desirable men are staying on the market for longer, when they would have previously been off the market quickly in order to sate their sex drive. Once they are off the market it would allow the lesser men to take the lesser women off the market; and so on...

Idea

Higher resource guys re-entering the market due to the breakdown of marriages and the family also have exacerbated this problem. We have a grass is greener culture with too many participants, ie attention. Women either can't or won't understand that marriage is a bad deal for men in the current culture, so they are clueless about another thing, apart from the most important concept, of course which is:

the wall.
12-05-2019 05:27 PM
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whitewashedblackguy Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-05-2019 01:46 AM)WombRaider Wrote:  I don't think it's useful to assign blame. What we need to do is figure out ways to move forward on a practical basis.

The issue is that about 70 percent of women in the west are overweight/obese. Guys don't want them. You get 100 percent of guys competing for the 30 percent of women who are height-weight proportionate.

Our biology is based on the conditions of 100,000 years ago. The ugly or obese woman back then was a 2. Our brain still sees her as a 2. But actually, if you do a smooth distribution on the full population of today's women, she's a 5.5. She might be 350 pounds and with horse-like facial features, but she's still better than 55 percent of the women out there.

To mitigate hypergamy, you need to be at least 2 SMV points above your long-term mate. So if you're a 7.5, that horsey-looking obese woman is a good choice. If you're a 5.5, she's actually out of your league! Your brain doesn't feel that way, because it's disregarding all but the top 30 percent. You need to retrain your brain to include the whole distribution.

We have to deal with the conditions of today. Find you a landwhale, my friends. Unless you are a male 9 or 10 (spoiler alert: you're not), you belong with a land whale. Find one and lock her down.

You'll thank me later.

Is this a joke? No thanks

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-05-2019 09:02 PM
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whitewashedblackguy Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-05-2019 04:32 AM)hkhathaj Wrote:  Even if someone was raised fatherless by a toxic mother or if he is an orphan then still he is responsible himself for his life. The circumstances can't be blamed forever.

More knowledge means more responsibility. For this reason men who have the red pill knowledge but don't improve themselves and their own circle have even more responsibility than the morons who don't even have knowledge. This is also a harsh fact.

Most aren't willing to do that. When my buddy came to me on advice on how to get in shape, I told him to stop eating like shit and work out. His response: that's too hard. Had a roommate who swore that he could eat like shit and just inject test and get buff af. Didn't happen.

Funny thing is, they still pulled cuter girls than I did. No landwhales for either of them. Leonard knows whats up.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-05-2019 09:10 PM
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PapayaTapper Online
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-05-2019 02:12 AM)Snag87 Wrote:  I've seen similar sentiments posted here. Your post clearly illustrated the issue. I had never thought of it before but you're correct, what I've previously viewed as a 3 is far higher. Obviously, a significant portion of the male population is overweight, but male SMV isn't predicted on physical appearance to nearly the same degree as female.

I just met a girl on POF tonight. 19, sweet, smart and grounded. [b]Not much of a looker but definitely not hideous[/b]. A few days ago I would have rejected here. No longer

I very rarely make rubbing one out a suggestion but in your case I think its warranted

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12-05-2019 10:39 PM
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WombRaider Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-05-2019 02:12 AM)Snag87 Wrote:  I've seen similar sentiments posted here. Your post clearly illustrated the issue. I had never thought of it before but you're correct, what I've previously viewed as a 3 is far higher. Obviously, a significant portion of the male population is overweight, but male SMV isn't predicted on physical appearance to nearly the same degree as female.

I just met a girl on POF tonight. 19, sweet, smart and grounded. Not much of a looker but definitely not hideous. A few days ago I would have rejected here. No longer

Check her out and see where it leads. A lot of the time a girl might not be pretty in a standard way, but there will be things about her look that appeal to you personally. Then it's like you've found a hidden treasure, especially if she has good character.
12-06-2019 11:43 AM
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kazimierzdabrowski Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-05-2019 01:46 AM)WombRaider Wrote:  We have to deal with the conditions of today. Find you a landwhale, my friends. Unless you are a male 9 or 10 (spoiler alert: you're not), you belong with a land whale. Find one and lock her down.

You'll thank me later.
Was wondering where you went after being BTFO in the Keys to a Healthy Relationship thread.
12-06-2019 12:29 PM
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whitewashedblackguy Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
When you date or marry a landwhale, your sending a signal to the rest of the landwhales that it's ok to be a slob: she'll still snag a good man. That's part of the problem. What's the point of improving yourself if you're just gonna get with a low-tier broad?

That leads the downward spiral of letting women get away with shit that they shouldn't, and men being unmotivated to do anything. If a girls not unreasonable ugly, sure, go for it, but it's important to be able to walk away from landwhales, not to embrace them because you (feel) like you have no other options. That's desperation.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
12-06-2019 12:48 PM
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Captainstabbin Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-06-2019 12:48 PM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  When you date or marry a landwhale, your sending a signal to the rest of the landwhales that it's ok to be a slob: she'll still snag a good man. That's part of the problem. What's the point of improving yourself if you're just gonna get with a low-tier broad?

Because a lot of men on this board are nearing retirement age and want the next generation to keep producing worker bees for the system so their social security checks will arrive on time.

Get married young, no matter the quality of the woman, and produce taxpayers children.
12-06-2019 01:14 PM
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-06-2019 12:48 PM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  When you date or marry a landwhale, your sending a signal to the rest of the landwhales that it's ok to be a slob: she'll still snag a good man. That's part of the problem. What's the point of improving yourself if you're just gonna get with a low-tier broad?

That leads the downward spiral of letting women get away with shit that they shouldn't, and men being unmotivated to do anything. If a girls not unreasonable ugly, sure, go for it, but it's important to be able to walk away from landwhales, not to embrace them because you (feel) like you have no other options. That's desperation.

It's not desperation when you make an active, considered choice. I'm not saying you should be in a position where landwhales are your only option. I'm saying you should make a conscious decision to date well below your own SMV level. That creates stability in a long-term relationship. When you include the whole female population in the distribution, she's higher on the scale than you'd think, anyway.

Pairing up with the prettiest girl who'll have you is not the way to achieve a healthy relationship. You'll just end up getting shit on and cucked by jezebels with surface beauty.

Don't focus on beauty of the flesh. That is unhealthy, and a sign of our sick society. If outward attractiveness is a fixation, then you may need to work on your inner game.
12-06-2019 01:15 PM
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
Men steer society, and women go wherever we take them. Anything women do, we ultimately allow.

We can blame influencial men with bad intentions for the state of everything, and ordinary weak men for going along with whatever they're told and having no willpower.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 01:51 PM by aeroektar.)
12-06-2019 01:39 PM
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
If I’m going to be in a relationship, I’m going to be with the prettiest, most pleasant girl I can find. Just because she’s pretty doesn’t mean she’ll be a bitch, just like some ugly girls aren’t nice. If you’re screening girls for a relationship, you’re gonna filter out bitches anyways.

Consciously picking a girl one or two points below you is like getting a Toyota instead of getting a Porche because you’re scared you might scratch the car. It’s a lack of confidence in yourself. What does that say about your inner game?

Get the Porche, and if you don’t like it, it’s not a big deal. Trade it in for something else you’ll enjoy.

After talking to a young lady for a while, she told me “Even though your skin is black, I can tell your heart is white.”
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 01:57 PM by whitewashedblackguy.)
12-06-2019 01:51 PM
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WombRaider Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-06-2019 01:51 PM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  If I’m going to be in a relationship, I’m going to be with the prettiest, most pleasant girl I can find.

I hope you're doing this in a third world village. This works in the provincial Philippines, Vietnam, rural Peru, parts of Africa, etc. If you're going this route in the modern west, you're asking for trouble.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 02:11 PM by WombRaider.)
12-06-2019 02:10 PM
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kel Offline
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RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
I think people are having two somewhat separate conversations here.

I disagree strongly with "find you a landwhale" because keeping yourself healthy is something anyone can do and is indicative of a greater life outlook. Someone who doesn't take care of themselves is unlikely to be an effective caretaker for their family and their community. If you've got ten extra pounds, whatever, but being obese is unacceptable and is a personality failing - it's not comparable to being scarred from an accident or happening to be naturally plain looking.

But, I agree with the sentiment that aiming for the highest SMV woman is a trap, because SMV has been hacked, doing so rewards status seekers and narcissists. If your goal is fucking, then it makes sense to just aim for whatever you find the most viscerally attractive. When I was living a more degenerate lifestyle I was fine with just having a good time, getting a taste of the highest value of every style, race, etc. of woman I came across, doing as much kinky and decadent shit as I could, always raising the stakes to keep that high going. And while I now regret giving these women the validation of my attention and sex, it was what it was. I saw it as transactional, I was just partying, I knew none of these women were going to be meaningful fixtures in my life.

But of course values and lifestyle are more important for a meaningful, lasting relationship. The kind of relationship where you make a family and build a community around you as I'm trying to do. You aren't likely to get that from the party girls and instathots who look good riding your cock. You have to find a woman who will be a nurturing and protective mother, who'll be a hub of the community, who's reliable and responsible and wants to succeed at these more transcendent things in life, not just collect double-taps. And, yes, you want her to be fertile and genetically fit (the usual things which SMV reflected traditionally, until it became a parody of itself), but that is not necessarily (I would go so far as to say that is unlikely to be) the "hottest" girl around.

Find yourself a good woman. It's hard. They're out there, and their numbers are growing as everyone gets sick of this atomized, meaningless clown world, but it's still hard to find. But that's what any good man has to do - find that woman, be an honorable man with her, raise honorable, healthy, and hardworking children, and build a strong, resilient, dignified community around you of similar families.
12-06-2019 02:47 PM
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Hawkwood Offline
Pigeon

Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 2018
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Post: #25
RE: What responsibility do men bear for current dating market?
(12-06-2019 02:10 PM)WombRaider Wrote:  
(12-06-2019 01:51 PM)whitewashedblackguy Wrote:  If I’m going to be in a relationship, I’m going to be with the prettiest, most pleasant girl I can find.

I hope you're doing this in a third world village. This works in the provincial Philippines, Vietnam, rural Peru, parts of Africa, etc. If you're going this route in the modern west, you're asking for trouble.
I don't understand why you keep forcing this false dichotomy of unattractive, virtuous women vs attractive, immoral women. It's almost as if your brain is incapable of nuance.
12-06-2019 02:50 PM
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