Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Author Message
[email protected] Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,344
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 21
Post: #1
Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Rather that do a bad job explaining these concepts I'll just leave some links so you can have a look and decide for yourself. Many forum members have been mentioning John Mark and I stumbled on these concepts which look fresh and interesting.

source: https://propertarianism.com/basic-concepts/

Made by Curt Doolittle, cheerlead by pseudo-anonymous Youtuber John Mark











12-05-2019 02:05 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like [email protected]'s post:
d'Aversa, Transsimian, Simeon_Strangelight, mbare
The Black Knight Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,387
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 87
Post: #2
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Easy_C will not be pleased; you stole his original poster glory on this topic. mrgreen

That said, I highly recommend this video:





Also on BitChute: CIVIL WAR 2 in America - WHAT COMES AFTER? /// ***UNFILTERED Version*** -- https://www.bitchute.com/video/vk5Vr2GoVTEQ/

The above link is about 30 minutes longer than the YouTube version and gets into some things that Mark's can't really touch on YouTube. Great stuff.
(This post was last modified: 12-05-2019 02:24 AM by The Black Knight.)
12-05-2019 02:14 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 5 users Like The Black Knight's post:
Tactician, [email protected], Renzy, Isaac Jordan, Transsimian
debeguiled Offline
Peacock
******
Gold Member

Posts: 7,901
Joined: Aug 2014
Reputation: 117
Post: #3
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
That's a lot of listening to do. Could you summarize a little?

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
12-05-2019 02:04 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[email protected] Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,344
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 21
Post: #4
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-05-2019 02:04 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  That's a lot of listening to do. Could you summarize a little?

In the near future, the right won't be able to win any elections due to demographic change. When many red states like Texas flip blue the whole idea of winning elections is going to be abandoned. There's going to be a need for states to secede and replace the existing constitution so that it can't be exploited by parasites among us.

Propertarianism updates the US constitution so that it PUNISHES all forms of parasitism (by enforcing RECIPROCITY) including:

-mass immigration from 3rd world
-full-franchise democracy (only MEN with skin in the game should able to vote)
-corrupt judges
-middleman bankers (rent seeking via usury)
-education/student debt (indentured slavery via usury)
-leftist political movements
-corrupt politicians
-lies/agitations
-affirmative action
-welfare
-no fault divorce

This is just a small list and I won't get into the details of exactly how this is done but if you watch some of the videos it becomes simple and clear. This stuff is clearly slept on and I'm surprised I've never come across this information being in the manosphere.
12-05-2019 07:56 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like [email protected]'s post:
Renzy, Tactician, Kid Twist, debeguiled
kel Offline
Sparrow

Posts: 121
Joined: Dec 2019
Reputation: 0
Post: #5
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
It's important to have a plan for what comes after, but first you need to survive the collapse. That means being prepared and organized, and more importantly living an honorable life and surrounding yourself with honorable people who share your values. That is resilience which can survive the breakdown of society, and a loose network of those kinds of communities blur the line between a "before" and "after" - you live that lifestyle to best of your ability and encourage it in others starting now (and it's a constant effort, constant improvement).
12-06-2019 02:06 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
scorpion Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,624
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 264
Post: #6
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
None of their analysis or insight is news to anyone who's been paying attention for the past few years. And I don't see the point of advocating a fix by updating the U.S. Constitution. That has such a ridiculously low probability of happening (especially given the type of updates they advocate) that it might as well be impossible.

Basically, I don't see the point of what they're doing. Do they really think shouting into the wind about "Propertarianism" is going to make a damn bit of difference at this point? The die has been cast. The macro trends will not be reversed. The United States as a whole will never return to its former glory. The ship has taken on too much water. Rather than engaging in some pointless Sisyphean effort to keep the ship from sinking with MUH CONSTITUTION you would be better served making sure that you and yours have a nicely outfitted lifeboat.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
12-06-2019 02:53 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 5 users Like scorpion's post:
Aurini, Hawkwood, Syberpunk, robreke, Simeon_Strangelight
mr_ks Online
Robin
*

Posts: 190
Joined: Jun 2019
Reputation: 1
Post: #7
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Theres no point doing anything on a National scale. It's completely broken. Town based communities should be the future of democracy.
12-06-2019 03:09 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[email protected] Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,344
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 21
Post: #8
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
I agree that everyone is better served exiting with their comfy supplied lifeboats. It is the instinct of right wing people to not involve themselves politics and take care of their own. Then they flee.

The counter point is Americans will eventually run out of places to flee. You can't run forever. At some point people with skin in the game have to throw down.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 08:38 PM by [email protected].)
12-06-2019 08:38 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes [email protected]'s post:
Thriller
Easy_C Online
Crow
*****

Posts: 4,519
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 30
Post: #9
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
We already are running out of those spaces. Where those spaces do exist they drop a couple tens of thousands of Somalians in to live with you.
12-06-2019 08:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Easy_C's post:
Leonard D Neubache
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,631
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #10
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Can anyone versed in this stuff explain this part of their works?

Quote:RELIGION
We restate religion as the demand for mindfulness, and then analyze how the different civilizations have used different methods and different ‘religions’ to provide that mindfulness – with emphasis on the external and long term consequences of the means of providing ‘opiates to the masses’.

Our conclusion is that a more modern version of Stoicism, Reformed Education, Reformed ‘Worship’ consisting of Ancestors and Heroes, Nature and the Universe, and the development of agency to produce the Transcendence of Man into the gods we imagine will serve the function optimally.

Religion was, and remains, the ‘hard problem’ of social science simply because it functions by precognitive training and is understood pre-cognitively (felt) rather than thought. And as such it is difficult for us to discuss with any degree of reason, despite the fact that it is as understandable as the need for math, money, maps, and law.

I'm scanning through the document and there seems to be a LOT of coded language for outright banning Christianity (associated by them as "semitic") in favor of neo-nationalist paganism.

This whole thing seems to be written by atheists who deride religion and despise Christians but grudgingly admit that religion is necessary "for the masses". They seem to only be willing to compromise to the extent of giving those feckless masses a brand of pseudo-scientific pagansim.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 09:33 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-06-2019 09:30 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[email protected] Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,344
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 21
Post: #11
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-06-2019 09:30 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Can anyone versed in this stuff explain this part of their works?

Quote:RELIGION
We restate religion as the demand for mindfulness, and then analyze how the different civilizations have used different methods and different ‘religions’ to provide that mindfulness – with emphasis on the external and long term consequences of the means of providing ‘opiates to the masses’.

Our conclusion is that a more modern version of Stoicism, Reformed Education, Reformed ‘Worship’ consisting of Ancestors and Heroes, Nature and the Universe, and the development of agency to produce the Transcendence of Man into the gods we imagine will serve the function optimally.

Religion was, and remains, the ‘hard problem’ of social science simply because it functions by precognitive training and is understood pre-cognitively (felt) rather than thought. And as such it is difficult for us to discuss with any degree of reason, despite the fact that it is as understandable as the need for math, money, maps, and law.

I'm scanning through the document and there seems to be a LOT of coded language for outright banning Christianity (associated by them as "semitic") in favor of neo-nationalist paganism.

This whole thing seems to be written by atheists who deride religion and despise Christians but grudgingly admit that religion is necessary "for the masses". They seem to only be willing to compromise to the extent of giving those feckless masses a brand of pseudo-scientific pagansim.





Quote:RELIGIOUS OBJECTIVES FOR CHRISTIANS FRUSTRATED WITH THE PROPERTARIAN RESEARCH PROGRAM

1. SUPPRESSION OF FALSEHOOD AND ITS CONSEQUENCES - My work has a nearly single minded objective, and that ending lying in public speech. So, I'm not complaining about just christianity, but the falsehoods by which the abrahamic religions are constructed, the means of conveying those falsehoods, the consequences of teaching christians how to lie using the abrahamic method, and the consequences of christians lying using the abrahamic method, that makes the entire polity vulnerable to marxist, feminine, postmodern pseudoscience, sophism and denial, just as christianity judaism and islam were spread by supernaturalism, sophism, and denial of reality. As such my objective is the opposite of Augustine and Aquinas, which is to integrate greek reason into christianity on supernatural terms, and instead integrate christianity into western science and reason on scientific terms.

2. A POLITICAL RELIGION - Christianity, when expressed in secular scientific terms, is in fact an optimum SOCIAL and adequate PERSONAL religion even if it is not an optimum POLITICAL religion -which is why it failed to achieve what islam and judaism did, and why it has declined rapidly in the modern era. My goal is to license political religion so that we cannot be undermined again.

2. RESTORING A STATE RELIGION TO EXCLUDE OTHERS - I'm trying to discover a way to make christianity a state religion by converting it to secular terms - this is possible because christianity and only christianity among the abrahamic religions is compatible with natural law. Christians despise the fact that the lessons of christianity in scientific terms, are optimum strategies for social cooperation at least at interpersonal scale. Because the magic and 'woo woo' is lost by doing so restoring dependence upon reason, instead of allowing us to fall into pacifist intuition where we can abandon reason. (which is why religions work to sedate humans.) So over the long term I work to produce a christian law that is inviolate, like sharia, so to speak, from the natural law, and the christian extension of the natural law, by the exhaustion of forgiveness before retaliation or prosecution.

3. RESTORING THE BALANCE OF POWERS - If I can convert Christianity to secular terms I can restore the church as the political agency responsible for the individual and family, limiting the government to the material, and restore competition between family-church and commerce-government, and military-state. It is this division and competition i'm seeking to restore. (I don't tell you these things because they taint the audience by letting them know my purposes. I only explain afterward, so that my attacks on any given subject make sense in retrospect. In other words, I'm a scientist. I run tests. The public willing to engage in intellectually honest discourse serves as my testing laboratory.)

4. MULTIPLE CLASSES MULTIPLE RELIGIONS, SAME MESSAGE - All religions are class religions. Westerners practice a personal religion of Jesus (lower), a social religion of christianity (middle), an secular religion of philosophy (upper middle), a political religion of the law and the sciences that extend the law (upper). The Chinese have confucianism, the Dao, and buddhism, nationalism and familialism. Every culture other than judaism and islam have class religions. And we have and need our class religions.

5. MULTIPLE GENDERS: ADD MASCULINITY TO RELIGION - There are those of us for whom the philosophy of secular christianity - it's cooperation - is merely valuable, but for whom our ancestors, culture, nation, civilization are more precious than the false promise of an evil semitic god. And so if we categorize heathenry as the thanks to nature not denial of it, and paganism as thanks to heroes of our history, and the archetypes that are non-submissive to nature and heroic in achievement rather than heroic in tolerance. So I am continuing my process of investigation into whether it is possible to unite these scientific, natural, and christian, traditions in a constitution, that prohibits competition by which to undermine them. And whether they can be practiced together or separately. So again, I see myself trying to unite western civilization against further destruction. And I am doing so by the same means as did those great men who came before me, in every great time of change.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 10:15 PM by [email protected].)
12-06-2019 09:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Athanasius Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 359
Joined: Jul 2019
Reputation: 6
Post: #12
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Couple of thoughts:

1. The Propertarianism guy is hostile to Christianity.
2. I only looked at it briefly but it seems somewhat similar to right-libertarianism (the Lew Rockwell/Ron Paul type, not the Cato/Koch type). As such much of it was fine. However, the evil but coldly practical Lenin noted that treaties are scraps of paper and can be discarded when no longer useful to the cause. So are constitutions. Our own constitution is now largely disregarded, which is why we have the largest government in the history of the world. People will just vote themselves money out of the public till. In the end, you have to have a people in agreement on morals to maintain a common morality.
3. White areas tend to be peaceful, lower tax, lower crime, more prosperous. That draws liberals and higher crime groups who bring contagions. To build a more stable society, immigration needs to be ended.
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2019 10:13 PM by Athanasius.)
12-06-2019 10:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Athanasius's post:
Kid Twist, Syberpunk
infowarrior1 Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,945
Joined: Jan 2014
Reputation: 11
Post: #13
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
@Athanasius

White Liberals always precede mass immigration.
12-07-2019 01:16 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Aurini Offline
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,993
Joined: Apr 2013
Reputation: 91
Post: #14
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
I was going to answer your question, Leonard, but I believe it's been sufficiently addressed. I'll just drop my two cents on Mark and Doolittle - I've been watching them for a while, so maybe it's more like two dollars, but take it for what you will.

I more or less agree on all of their political and economic analysis. This isn't surprising, since it's pretty much an updated version of Libertarian/Anarchism/Nationalist/AltRight/NeoReactionary ideas. Try not to get too autistic about these labels, gents - comparing them is like asking "Which Martial Art is best?" Whichever one wins you the fight you're in, that's what.

My critique of Propertarianism is of the founders and the structure. How do they live their lives? What are they building?

I'm not going to gossip about the founders, since what I heard could be wrong, and I've had plenty of erstwhile friends spreading malicious rumours about me during the past year - so I'll limit it to this: I'm seeing a lot of shine, but not a lot of substance, when it comes to the personalities involved.

As to what they're building - are they building the next civilization? Or are they building a cult where we all talk about the next civilization? The old NRX and Anarchist guys were big on ideas and political theory - and sometimes they'd get annoyingly obsessive about proving that they'd designed the perfect "pie in the sky" society - but at the end of the day, they were just individuals who were helping educate the public about how the world actually works, and how it might work. Donate to my Patreon.

With Propertarianism, I'm sensing a very well designed organization for selling false hope. The theoretical ideas are theoretically solid, but I see no valid proposal for implementing them; what I do see is a belief system that offers vain hope about a world that once was and might be again, and it sells you this hope instead of offering solutions.

In other words, it's really good modern snake oil; the same as the old stuff, but in a perfected new package.

I really dislike offering such a condemnatory opinion, since I largely agree with them, but it's like the QAnon thing - I just don't buy it, and I think that those who are buying it are going to pay the price down the road. The leaders are a bit too shiny. Their conclusions a bit too perfect. Their marketing is top notch, and their proposals to get from here to there are non-existent.

I'd love to live in the Propertarian society; I just don't believe that I ever will, nor do I believe that these are the men to implement it. I'd love for them to prove me wrong.

My website.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 03:44 AM by Aurini.)
12-07-2019 03:43 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Aurini's post:
scorpion, Leonard D Neubache, Syberpunk, beta_plus
SomeOneSomeWhere Offline
Robin
*

Posts: 229
Joined: Oct 2019
Reputation: 5
Post: #15
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
As long as globalists are around they will send the most goy'ish looking ones to subvert and destroy so they can force us into a globohomo utopia.

A more realistic idea is you moving to somewhere in the middle of nowhere with a small group of people but that's native American land in Canada for the most part and they don't exactly like whites.

When it comes to the lack of reciprocity it's immense on all social levels these days. I feel like I need to be extra nice to service level workers so they don't snap because salaries are barely livable and they feel disrespected by customers as well.

Then of course we have gender relations which are pretty much unfixable in this generation and things are gravitating towards strategies of coercion and retaliation by false accusations for any real or imagined slights.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 05:35 AM by SomeOneSomeWhere.)
12-07-2019 04:56 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,631
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #16
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Well, their premise of rejigging Christianity to fit their ideal bulletproof utopian society pretty much lands them in the "purely academic with 0% chance of success" pile.

A premise for Americans that issues a return to the founding principles with a few addendums to shore up the modern cracks in the dam would have a hard enough time winning popular support as it is.

Having some academic tell 65% of America, mostly white, and by vast majority the group that would otherwise be their trigger men "that's a nice religion you have there, but I'm going to be making some changes and they're not negotiable"?

Laugh4

If they're cutting out "come as you are" Christians then what percentage of the popluation do they actually think they represent on any ideological level?

I'm not going to bother crunching the numbers but it's almost certainly less than even the fabled 3%.

Quote:2. RESTORING A STATE RELIGION TO EXCLUDE OTHERS - I'm trying to discover a way to make christianity a state religion by converting it to secular terms

I'm not sure this guy even understands how many Christian denominations there are in America and the extent to which their views differ. At very best you could say "the state religion is Christianity and you're free to be as practicing or non-practicing as you like, but all other religions are banned". Hell, you'd have better odds of simply choosing one denomination and fighting the rest, and I say that knowing exactly how stupid it sounds.

But to say words to the effect of "I hate your stupid opiates and your dumb, unscientific "feelz" you idiots, but I might be convinced to meet you half way when I make my state-mandated version of your religion"?

Wow. Talk about shooting for the stars.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 07:12 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-07-2019 07:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Leonard D Neubache's post:
Aurini
scorpion Offline
Ostrich
****
Gold Member

Posts: 2,624
Joined: Sep 2012
Reputation: 264
Post: #17
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
Wow, I didn't even realize their stance on Christianity. This is pure autism LARPing as serious philosophy. Imagine how delusional you have to be to think that your self-concocted political and moral philosophy is superior to that which evolved over two-thousand years from a combination of Greco-Roman, Celtic and Christian influence.

OP and others, please be more discriminating about who you allow to influence you. This is literally just some random weirdo on YouTube throwing around big words and recycling well-worn material as his own while injecting a bit of his own take. The idea that this "Propertarianism" nonsense offers the West a unique path to redemption is as hilarious as it is preposterous.

Literally the first question to ask when trying to figure out if someone is worth listening to in regards to serious issues: "What do you think about Jesus Christ?" If the answer is anything except a clearly stated, "He is the Son of God and Savior of Mankind," then you are dealing with someone who is at best misguided and deluded or at worst intentionally trying to deceive you. These charlatans obviously fail that test.

The West's problems are not that we lack a strong legalistic and moral framework, it's that the population is spiritually dead. We have a strong legal and moral system in place, the problem is that the laws are simply ignored. This is because most people are spiritually dead inside and our system was designed to function only with a population of moral Christian people. If you want to save the West, preach the gospel. Anything else is ineffectual at best and counterproductive at worst.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.” - Romans 8:18
12-07-2019 09:42 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 5 users Like scorpion's post:
Syberpunk, Leonard D Neubache, robreke, Aurini, Tactician
Easy_C Online
Crow
*****

Posts: 4,519
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 30
Post: #18
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-07-2019 03:43 AM)Aurini Wrote:  As to what they're building - are they building the next civilization? Or are they building a cult where we all talk about the next civilization? The old NRX and Anarchist guys were big on ideas and political theory - and sometimes they'd get annoyingly obsessive about proving that they'd designed the perfect "pie in the sky" society - but at the end of the day, they were just individuals who were helping educate the public about how the world actually works, and how it might work. Donate to my Patreon.

With Propertarianism, I'm sensing a very well designed organization for selling false hope. The theoretical ideas are theoretically solid, but I see no valid proposal for implementing them; what I do see is a belief system that offers vain hope about a world that once was and might be again, and it sells you this hope instead of offering solutions.

I agree to some extent.

That said, I think there's one fundamental difference in this situation that comes down to them being the right thing at the right time. I suspect it's not an accident.

First, read this snippet: https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world...lobally-2/

Quote:I will update the Cycle of War in 2020. As I have stated many times, the computer has correlated both the international war among nations as well as the civil unrest which leads to revolutions. Normally, these two separate models move at different times. When they align, we get the most dramatic changes. This is what is taking place right now on a global scale. We have rising civil unrest around the globe. There is no place that is exempt.

We will see even the US 2020 elections become much more violent. It will be similar to the 1960s, but this is not over race. This time economics is driving the cycle which is being articulated in the battle between socialism v capitalism. Never before in history do we see the losing side simply refuse to accept their loss and move on. This nonsense that Trump is “#NotMyPresident” reflects the rising discontent which will turn to violence next year.


As both Martin and others have written, it is inevitable that the United States is going to have a massive shakeout and we'll see trust in government collapse with resulting balkanization.

This isn't something that is really in anyone's control and is inevitable at this point. What matters is sentiment at the time this happens.


He uses the phrase about "which way the tree falls". What Mark and the others are trying to do is weight the tree on one side so they can control which way it falls when it does and they're doing so very successfully. Him, Fuentes, and the others have perfectly timed this so the ideas can hit mainstream just in time to coincide with dramatically escalating leftist violence that's going to be far beyond 2016.

Quote:Wow, I didn't even realize their stance on Christianity. This is pure autism LARPing as serious philosophy. Imagine how delusional you have to be to think that your self-concocted political and moral philosophy is superior to that which evolved over two-thousand years from a combination of Greco-Roman, Celtic and Christian influence.

Doolittle is susceptible to "I'm too smart to be Christian" line of thinking. He's got a massive character flaw that Mark does not in the form of egoism that makes him poorly suited to lead the movement as his reactions to critique damages his cause. Mark seems neutral-positive because he's said that "Christianity is the blueprint to building a first-world civilization" and overall demonstrates an understanding that his ideology is just translating religious concepts from Christianity into political language.

There's a reason that this whole thing languished for years under Doolittle and took off instantly as soon as Mark became active.

One thing I've considered is that there's nothing incompatible with strongly codifying the concept of reciprocity into a theocracy. There's enough overlap that a strong personality could make them work together.


Quote:The West's problems are not that we lack a strong legalistic and moral framework, it's that the population is spiritually dead. We have a strong legal and moral system in place, the problem is that the laws are simply ignored. This is because most people are spiritually dead inside and our system was designed to function only with a population of moral Christian people. If you want to save the West, preach the gospel. Anything else is ineffectual at best and counterproductive at worst.

Those aren't mutually exclusive. The two together are necessary to form a strong "societal immune system". Were it not for strong legal systems that strong spiritual energy would very easily have been redirected into any one of the numerous heresies that appeared and in fact it was before that framework existed when the Aryan heresy almost destroyed the church.
12-07-2019 10:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,631
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #19
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
I think it's pretty clear that scorpion is right.

"...shall not be infringed".

Okay, I'll just convert my AR15 to have the same ROF options as a standard infantryman and... wait... why is the ATF at my door?

"...no law respecting... or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press..."

Okay, I'll just discuss this court case relating to a child being gender-transitioned and... wait... what's a gag order and why am I being charged with breaching it?

You have all the plainly worded laws you need and they are simply being ignored. It's not even a grey area. Anyone in America should be able to stand in court in any and every state with their short barreled M4 and say "second amendment, fuck you all". The very fact that you can't, not in ANY state makes it clear that you no longer have laws, you have the execution of raw power. Most people simply like to live with the delusion that the laws matter because it helps them sleep at night.

This is why a return to moral law is necessary. Because the laws on the books have become irrelevant and as such they need to start being routinely ignored in favor of simply doing the right thing until just laws can be re-enacted under a just peoples.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 10:40 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-07-2019 10:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 4 users Like Leonard D Neubache's post:
Syberpunk, Athanasius, Simeon_Strangelight, Tactician
Easy_C Online
Crow
*****

Posts: 4,519
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 30
Post: #20
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
And those ambiguities were created because the Judiciary was given too much leeway to legislate from the bench.
12-07-2019 10:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Leonard D Neubache Offline
Owl
******
Gold Member

Posts: 12,631
Joined: Mar 2016
Reputation: 211
Post: #21
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-07-2019 10:39 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  And those ambiguities were created because the Judiciary was given too much leeway to legislate from the bench.

By whom?

How can even the Supreme Court rule against the plainly written word of the Constitution without being disbanded?

It's a slow motion coup in plain sight. Not that I'm hating on the American people alone. Across the West we all suffer these tyrannies like sheep.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 10:58 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
12-07-2019 10:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Leonard D Neubache's post:
Aurini, Tactician
[email protected] Offline
Pelican
****

Posts: 1,344
Joined: Feb 2016
Reputation: 21
Post: #22
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-07-2019 10:54 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  
(12-07-2019 10:39 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  And those ambiguities were created because the Judiciary was given too much leeway to legislate from the bench.

By whom?

How can even the Supreme Court rule against the plainly written word of the Constitution without being disbanded?

It's a slow motion coup in plain sight. Not that I'm hating on the American people alone. Across the West we all suffer these tyrannies like sheep.


If the constitution is centered around reciprocity you can't circumvent the constitution. Attention to 16:24 onwards:



(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 11:41 AM by [email protected].)
12-07-2019 11:35 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Easy_C Online
Crow
*****

Posts: 4,519
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 30
Post: #23
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
LDB please actually watch the videos before asking the question.
12-07-2019 12:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Simeon_Strangelight Offline
Hawk
*******
Gold Member

Posts: 19,343
Joined: Feb 2014
Reputation: 219
Post: #24
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-06-2019 02:53 PM)scorpion Wrote:  None of their analysis or insight is news to anyone who's been paying attention for the past few years. And I don't see the point of advocating a fix by updating the U.S. Constitution. That has such a ridiculously low probability of happening (especially given the type of updates they advocate) that it might as well be impossible.

Basically, I don't see the point of what they're doing. Do they really think shouting into the wind about "Propertarianism" is going to make a damn bit of difference at this point? The die has been cast. The macro trends will not be reversed. The United States as a whole will never return to its former glory. The ship has taken on too much water. Rather than engaging in some pointless Sisyphean effort to keep the ship from sinking with MUH CONSTITUTION you would be better served making sure that you and yours have a nicely outfitted lifeboat.

I like the idea, but I too don't see it happening. The issue is not with setting up the system, because it's better than the US constitution. The problem is with abolishing the old and setting up the new. This won't happen unless you find Superman crashing in your backyard and convince him to topple the currnt leadership with a giant bloodbath, because those buggers will throw everything against you.

My guess is that they want to win over minds. Most people barely register the demographics as being suicidally destructive. They will find out only when it is too late anyway.
12-07-2019 01:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Simeon_Strangelight's post:
Syberpunk, Tactician
Athanasius Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 359
Joined: Jul 2019
Reputation: 6
Post: #25
RE: Reciprocity & Propertarianism (John Mark & Curt Doolittle)
(12-07-2019 10:39 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  And those ambiguities were created because the Judiciary was given too much leeway to legislate from the bench.

Leonard is right on this one. You're right that there is too much ambiguity in some cases. The Constitution was a document of compromise between various factions. However, even if you make it clear as day, it's still a piece of paper. What has been happening since the beginning of the Republic is that new powers have been invented and blessed by the court, words are redefined, or most commonly the Constitution is just disregarded. There's no constitutional debate on most laws passed today. The 10th Amendment says that any powers not enumerated belong to the states and the people, and yet the federal government oversees something like 75,000 regulations. Despite a Constitution meant to strictly enumerate powers and confine the scope of the state, the U.S. is now the largest government in the history of the world.

John Mark can be concise and effective at diagnosing problems. He may well be correct that separation is the answer; I lean in that direction myself. But you can't build a society on an immoral people, or replace a real faith with some phony construct. You need law, but more important is a moral people who will follow it.
(This post was last modified: 12-07-2019 01:57 PM by Athanasius.)
12-07-2019 01:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Athanasius's post:
Leonard D Neubache
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication