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The Coronavirus Pandemic thread I
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infowarrior1 Offline
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Post: #226
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 08:15 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  This has the potential to wreck the Chinese economy. The economic cost of this is already in the billions. The loss of face is immense. International business relationships may suffer for years.

There’s no way the Chinese government released this intentionally.

At certain times. Trying to save "face" results in having said "face" being ripped off for all the world to see.

Forcibly causing them to be shamed.

Coverups are no substitute for true competence.

Its a flawed social dynamic that the West had a leg up compartively speaking probably due to the emphasis in Christianity on the Truth. Whose Savior is the Truth.

And other factors unique to western culture.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 08:26 AM by infowarrior1.)
01-27-2020 08:19 AM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread

(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 08:53 AM by rotekz.)
01-27-2020 08:46 AM
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Nineteen84 Offline
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Post: #228
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
Good points infowarrior1. Of course here I refer to the Chinese concept of face - 面子 miànzi.
01-27-2020 09:06 AM
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Post: #229
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 08:15 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  This has the potential to wreck the Chinese economy. The economic cost of this is already in the billions. The loss of face is immense. International business relationships may suffer for years.

There’s no way the Chinese government released this intentionally.

Not to mention the world economy.
01-27-2020 09:23 AM
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Nineteen84 Offline
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Post: #230
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 09:23 AM)Horus Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 08:15 AM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  This has the potential to wreck the Chinese economy. The economic cost of this is already in the billions. The loss of face is immense. International business relationships may suffer for years.

There’s no way the Chinese government released this intentionally.

Not to mention the world economy.

It's true. This could reverberate throughout the world's economy and back again. If China weren't so interconnected or reliant upon external economies they wouldn't give a damn about what happens outside - another good pointer to why this was probably not planned.


The Wuhan coronavirus could blow up the game China's been playing with its economy for years
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 10:31 AM by Nineteen84.)
01-27-2020 10:28 AM
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dicknixon72 Offline
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Post: #231
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
This virus exposes a lot about China on a structural level about many of its institutions. To sum it up, China is a Potemkin country, a 3rd world nation playing the role of a 2nd world developed country in the film The World.

From their vacant skyscrapers to their "fifth-generation" stealth jets powered by third-generation Soviet engines to their Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox automobiles, this is truly China - an emperor with no clothes.
01-27-2020 10:49 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #232
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
The during the Mister Metokur stream a few days back he made a very apt and horrifying comparison.

He said: Imagine the government told you "this is no big deal, it's just a few dozen infected and a handful of people dead" then they suddenly quarantined the entirely of Florida, nobody in or out, and shut down virtually all media traffic from there. "It's all under control". People would be losing their minds!

And he's right. We look at 30 million people being locked down in half a dozen cities and think "yeah, China" but the logistic and social implications are not exactly trivial. If something like this happened on a similar scale in the West then we'd be freaking the heck out.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 11:05 AM by Leonard D Neubache.)
01-27-2020 11:03 AM
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Post: #233
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
I think most countries would be wrecked if faced by an epidemic like this, so I don't hold it against the Chinese government for not managing to contain it. The Chinese people and their bat soup and live mice consumption, on the other hand...

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01-27-2020 11:04 AM
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Post: #234
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
I bought a bunch of vaccine related stocks on Friday and they jumped huge so far. I'm rich.

Aloha!
01-27-2020 11:05 AM
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Post: #235
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
Chinese bat soup: the taste is to die for and it's ideal to rince the palate after enjoying a meal of live mice with a side of sliced tomatoes.

01-27-2020 11:32 AM
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Post: #236
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 11:05 AM)Kona Wrote:  I bought a bunch of vaccine related stocks on Friday and they jumped huge so far. I'm rich.

Aloha!

You can afford your personal bunker now!

Deus vult!
01-27-2020 11:34 AM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-26-2020 12:34 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Personally I think the most overlooked prep is generally entertainment. It's hard to imagine having to undertake a form of solitary confinement for what may be months at a time. It would take a real toll on most people. A decent quantity of books would be a real blessing in a situation like that.

The biggest problem with "prepping" is that it focuses too much on an acute event and doesn't think of things like this. To be really "prepped" you need to be living and thriving like that already. My goal with the farmhouse is to be living a lifestyle that - provided a military base near me doesn't get nuked - I can more or less continue my day-to-day routine when SHTF.
01-27-2020 11:42 AM
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Post: #238
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
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01-27-2020 11:46 AM
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911 Offline
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 10:49 AM)dicknixon72 Wrote:  This virus exposes a lot about China on a structural level about many of its institutions. To sum it up, China is a Potemkin country, a 3rd world nation playing the role of a 2nd world developed country in the film The World.

From their vacant skyscrapers to their "fifth-generation" stealth jets powered by third-generation Soviet engines to their Xerox of a Xerox of a Xerox automobiles, this is truly China - an emperor with no clothes.

That is not true. If you look at auto markets for example, China is the world's biggest by a wide margin, 30 million new autos sold last year, the US is a distant 2nd at 18 million.

If you look at the auto manufacturing ranks by country, the difference is shocking:

World's Top 20 Largest Passenger Car-Producing Countries In 2017 (Million Units)

China: 24.81 million units.
Japan: 8.35 million units.
Germany: 5.65 million units.
India: 3.95 million units.
South Korea: 3.74 million units.
United States: 3.03 million units.
Spain: 2.29 million units.
Brazil: 2.27 million units.

China is a manufacturing-based economy, it makes products for its domestic market, now the world's largest, and the rest of the world, with an annual trade surplus of nearly half a trillion dollars, and the world's largest foreign currency reserves by a wide margin (over $3 trillion).

They've spent on their jet fighter program less than 100 times what the US is spending for the F-35, but they spend 10 times as much as the US on infrastructure projects. They prefer to invest their resources into higher priorities, like their supercomputer program, telecom/5G tech and infrastructure projects, sectors that will cement their status as world economic power in decades to come, they already are the world leaders in those domains.

China manages its economy very well overall. The US doesn't. We in North America should be producing at least 5 times as many cars, that's millions of well-paying blue collar jobs that come with a very high economic multiplier effect for local economies. Instead the Rust Belt is still dying, malls closing and cities dying with a surge in white male suicides and a drop in life expectancy.

The Chinese economy has delivered for the average Chinaman, while the western economies have been shafting their middle classes for the last several decades, with stagnating purchasing power, shrinking manufacturing base and middle class, skyrocketing healthcare and education costs.

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(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 11:55 AM by 911.)
01-27-2020 11:50 AM
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Nineteen84 Offline
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Post: #240
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 11:50 AM)911 Wrote:  They've spent on their jet fighter program less than 100 times what the US is spending for the F-35, but they spend 10 times as much as the US on infrastructure projects. They prefer to invest their resources into higher priorities like their supercomputer program, telecom/5G tech and infrastructure projects, they are the world leaders in those domains.

It's easy to 'prefer investing in higher priorities’ when you can build your jets using stolen technology.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 12:05 PM by Nineteen84.)
01-27-2020 11:57 AM
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Leonard D Neubache Offline
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Post: #241
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
It is what it is. I find it difficult to somehow connect the moral dots that the weapons you're building to potentially kill millions of people shouldn't ever be made using stolen technology. We would do the same to them if they had anything worth stealing and we wouldn't have any moral quibbles in the process either, although the US should deal harshly with all their people involved in either allowing it to be stolen or actually selling it deliberately. Another Clinton crime they skate on to this day in plain view of the public.

But the geopolitical angle does add another element to keep in mind. If China gets the notion that this virus was placed by an outside actor or simply decides it wants everyone to end up on an equally level (read: horrendous) playing field then I don't think it's beyond them to deliberately ensure that everyone else in the world suffers to the same degree they do. That is to say, if they decide to infect the rest of the world with this thing then there will really be no stopping them.

Meanwhile the whole bat soup thing seems like manufactured psyop garbage, or a twist on the truth at best. My bets are on this thing being engineered and having been released accidentally. The amount of net traffic dedicated to pinning this on Chinese eating habits seems excessive and downright suspicious.

God demands of Man responsibility. God demands of Woman vulnerability. These are their curse and blessing alike. Libertianism is to Man as Feminism is to Woman.
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 12:19 PM by Leonard D Neubache.)
01-27-2020 12:15 PM
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Post: #242
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
It is mostly targeting males, mostly older than 30...
01-27-2020 12:26 PM
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911 Offline
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
The Spanish Flu was unusual in that it killed a high proportion of young healthy people, as opposed to elderly and people with weaker immune systems:

Quote: In 1948, Heinrich Mueller, the former head of the Gestapo, told his CIA Interrogator that the influenza pandemic of 1918-19, the most devastating plague in human history, was man-made.

Mueller said the flu started as an US army bacteriological warfare experiment that somehow infected US army ranks at Camp Riley KS in March 1918, and spread around the world. He says that it "got out of control" but we cannot discount the horrible possibility that the "Spanish Flu" was a deliberate elite depopulation measure. Researchers have found connections between it and the "Bird Flu."

It was called the Spanish Flu because the first human case was identified there. Understandably there was panic worldwide, as influenza was not discovered until 1933, so the mystery was rather frightening.

According to Wikipedia: "In the U.S., about 28% of the population suffered, and 500,000 to 675,000 died. In Britain 200,000 died; in France more than 400,000. Entire villages perished in Alaska and southern Africa. In Australia, an estimated 10,000 people died and in the Fiji Islands, 14% of the population died during only two weeks, and in Western Samoa 22%. An estimated 17 million died in India, about 5% of India's population. In the Indian Army, almost 22% of troops who caught the disease died of it."

"Indeed, symptoms in 1918 were so unusual that initially influenza was misdiagnosed as dengue, cholera, or typhoid. One observer wrote, "One of the most striking of the complications was hemorrhage from mucous membranes, especially from the nose, stomach, and intestine. Bleeding from the ears and petechial hemorrhages in the skin also occurred. ...Another unusual feature of this pandemic was that it mostly killed young adults, with 99% of pandemic influenza deaths occurring in people under 65 and more-than-half in young adults 20 to 40 years old. This is unusual since influenza is normally most deadly to the very young (under age 2) and the very old (over age 70). "


https://www.henrymakow.com/001836.html

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(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 01:16 PM by 911.)
01-27-2020 01:14 PM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 01:14 PM)911 Wrote:  The Spanish Flu was unusual in that it killed a high proportion of young healthy people, as opposed to elderly and people with weaker immune systems:

Quote: In 1948, Heinrich Mueller, the former head of the Gestapo, told his CIA Interrogator that the influenza pandemic of 1918-19, the most devastating plague in human history, was man-made.

Mueller said the flu started as an US army bacteriological warfare experiment that somehow infected US army ranks at Camp Riley KS in March 1918, and spread around the world. He says that it "got out of control" but we cannot discount the horrible possibility that the "Spanish Flu" was a deliberate elite depopulation measure. Researchers have found connections between it and the "Bird Flu."

Take these guys with a grain of salt, but here's the story on the Spanish Flu: mainstream historians acknowledge that it likely began in the United States.




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(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 01:56 PM by Aurini.)
01-27-2020 01:55 PM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
It's probably the bat casseroles they served in Kansas...

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01-27-2020 02:07 PM
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Post: #246
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 12:15 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  It is what it is. I find it difficult to somehow connect the moral dots that the weapons you're building to potentially kill millions of people shouldn't ever be made using stolen technology.

I would go as far as to say that - at this level at least - stealing the weapons tech was the logical course of action for an entity the size of China. Realpolitik. There is no real moral quandary there. However, the point is this - let's not start commending China for allocating its financial resources towards 'superior' projects when it didn't have to bear the cost of building essential advanced weapons tech from scratch like the west. In this example the US had no choice but to spend their own money on jet technology as there was no one to steal from. The theft however means China has had very little opportunity cost to bear and can build their infrastructure, supercomputers and 5g instead.

Quote:But the geopolitical angle does add another element to keep in mind. If China gets the notion that this virus was placed by an outside actor or simply decides it wants everyone to end up on an equally level (read: horrendous) playing field then I don't think it's beyond them to deliberately ensure that everyone else in the world suffers to the same degree they do. That is to say, if they decide to infect the rest of the world with this thing then there will really be no stopping them.

An interesting and very disturbing thought.

Quote:Meanwhile the whole bat soup thing seems like manufactured psyop garbage, or a twist on the truth at best. My bets are on this thing being engineered and having been released accidentally. The amount of net traffic dedicated to pinning this on Chinese eating habits seems excessive and downright suspicious.

The story does have all the viral elements necessary to make it spread on social media, no pun intended Wink
(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 02:42 PM by Nineteen84.)
01-27-2020 02:28 PM
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Post: #247
RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
CDC Says 110 Suspected Coronavirus Cases Identified In US; Public Health Risk Remains "Low"
Quote:Update (1150ET): Dr. Nancy Messonnier, the Director of the Center for the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (NCIRD), spoke on behalf of the CDC. During the press conference, she said that the US had identified 110 people who are under observation and being tested for the virus. While 5 cases have already been identified in the US, another 32 have definitively tested negative.

Though a vaccine remains elusive, the Messonnier said the CDC had developed a diagnostic test that can quickly confirm cases of the virus. So far, CDC researchers have seen no signs of "mutation" in the virus. If the virus does mutate, as Chinese scientists suggested it might, that could create problems for those trying to develop the exam. On Friday, a "blueprint" for the test was uploaded and shared with the world. All governments can now follow this blueprint to develop their own tests..

Right now, the CDC is focused on providing tests to "priority" states (presumably, Cali, Washington, Arizona and Illinois, the states where cases have been confirmed). But soon they will expand the program to supply governments in need.

The CDC has also uploaded the entire genome of the virus from the first two cases. From what the CDC can tell so far, the virus doesn't appear to be "mutating", as some Chinese officials had suggested.


Unverified clips purportedly showing medics in Wuhan losing it.



On a lighter note.

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01-27-2020 02:50 PM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
A Chinese man sat next to me on the subway this morning. Just wanted to say I learned a lot from you guys and it was nice talking to you.

Pandemics are part and parcel of living in an industrial system.
01-27-2020 03:27 PM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
(01-27-2020 03:27 PM)ilostabet Wrote:  A Chinese man sat next to me on the subway this morning. Just wanted to say I learned a lot from you guys and it was nice talking to you.

Wash your hands.

Aloha!
01-27-2020 03:48 PM
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RE: The Chinese/Asian coronavirus thread
You still have two whole weeks to hang out, no need to panic yet.

(01-27-2020 02:28 PM)Nineteen84 Wrote:  
(01-27-2020 12:15 PM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  It is what it is. I find it difficult to somehow connect the moral dots that the weapons you're building to potentially kill millions of people shouldn't ever be made using stolen technology.

I would go as far as to say that - at this level at least - stealing the weapons tech was the logical course of action for an entity the size of China. Realpolitik. There is no real moral quandary there. However, the point is this - let's not start commending China for allocating its financial resources towards 'superior' projects when it didn't have to bear the cost of building essential advanced weapons tech from scratch like the west. In this example the US had no choice but to spend their own money on jet technology as there was no one to steal from. The theft however means China has had very little opportunity cost to bear and can build their infrastructure, supercomputers and 5g instead.

The US got its jet and rocket technology from Germany, not just in the 40s/50s, but designs like the B-2 Spirit bomber are straight out of the Horten Ho-229 flying wing design.

https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-73529...pid1996826

Quote:the US had no choice but to spend their own money on jet technology as there was no one to steal from.

Save for the 200 million US taxpayers that is. The US military procurement system is the world's largest, most wasteful bureaucracy, the MIC has control over Congress, including people like Bernie Sanders, and there is no oversight. Trillions literally go missing, and that's not just because of the black budget.

The Russians have a homegrown weapon and jet fighter program, they design and produce everything including engines. For all the image of Russian corruption, they manage to come up with and produce great planes that are competitive with the best from the West, for a fraction of American development costs. As do the French and Swedes, who share the same labor costs as the US. China spent 1/100th of the F35 budget program to come up with the J20, but they would have still spent less than 1/10th of the trillion dollar F35 budget if they had to do everything from scratch.

The other thing about China here is that their government has an industrial policy, like Japan or Korea, whereas the US is completely run by big business and their lobbies (MIC, big pharma, tech, GAFA etc), which only care about their bottom line and often milk taxpayers to that aim. Their government looks out for their national interests, setting priorities and developing partnerships with domestic industry leaders, like they did with Huawei and 5G, or their supercomputer companies.

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(This post was last modified: 01-27-2020 04:02 PM by 911.)
01-27-2020 03:59 PM
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