Read The Forum Rules: We have a clear set of rules to keep the forum running smoothly. Click here to review them.

Post Reply 
How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
Author Message
Rob Banks Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 728
Joined: Oct 2016
Reputation: 12
Post: #26
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
↑ Agreed.

This reminds me of when right wingers or white nationalists say things like "Leftists are idiots in thinking white people are bad. White people invented the printing press, railroads, cars, computers, Western medicine, etc. Without those inventions, we would still be living in the dark ages and it would be so terrible!"

I agree that leftists are idiots for hating on white people, but the fact that whites brought all this technology into the world didn't exactly make the world a better place, in my opinion.
02-08-2020 02:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Rob Banks's post:
ilostabet, Kurgan
Kurgan Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 754
Joined: Nov 2016
Reputation: 4
Post: #27
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
So I'm reading that guy's manifesto.

Can't tell if he was trying to do a Creepypasta story in the style of Nietzche or an admin for Encyclopedia Dramatica or was just flat out trolling everyone...
02-08-2020 03:35 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
rotekz Online
Ostrich
****

Posts: 1,939
Joined: Aug 2015
Reputation: 17
Post: #28
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
(02-08-2020 12:46 PM)Abelard Lindsey Wrote:  There seems to be an effort at historical revisionism with regards to the dark ages on the part of certain political factions over the past 10 years or so. I have no idea of the psychological motivations behind this.

I do. The publishing sector is Jewish dominated. If a historian wants to secure a respectable book deal there is no better way than to have the book bash Christianity.
02-08-2020 04:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like rotekz's post:
911, Samseau
HermeticAlly Offline
Woodpecker
**

Posts: 428
Joined: Jan 2016
Reputation: 8
Post: #29
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
(02-08-2020 01:57 PM)ilostabet Wrote:  You say out of one side of your mouth: 'science worship is stupid, a cult, etc'; out of the other you say: 'most important scientists were devout Christians; the Church nurtured science; etc'. If worshiping science is stupid (and I agree), what does it matter if most scientists were Christians, or that the Church kept this knowledge.

It matters because it pokes a hole in the narrative that scientific curiosity and discovery is a fruit of secularism/atheist thinking. The narrative is bogus and should be challenged.

Of course I agree that not all "scientific" progress is positive or necessary. I'm as cynical about the hyper-technological world as many folks here.

Reasonable Christian people aren't competing for which side gets to "claim" science, the way that Boomer conservatives want to claim Not-Racist-ship over leftists. That's probably what you're referring to but I have no interest in such a thing. Science is just one tool for learning about the world, along with history, philosophy, and theology, and should be kept in its proper place, not elevated an object of worship.

I tend to think that science has already passed the point of diminishing returns and is, at this point, mostly resulting in the creation of gizmos that encourage us to indulge our worst impulses. It's a useful tool in the hands of a moral civilization, but a recipe for disaster in a godless one.

Quote:I agree that leftists are idiots for hating on white people, but the fact that whites brought all this technology into the world didn't exactly make the world a better place, in my opinion.

Come on, this is ridiculous. Computers, smartphones, airplanes, sure. I'll grant you that. But the printing press? You've got to be kidding me. You really think you'd be better off as an illiterate peasant? I doubt it. And medical science? Would you prefer it for over half of your children to die in infancy, or lose your wife to some easily-treatable disease because we don't understand the germ theory of disease?
02-08-2020 07:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 3 users Like HermeticAlly's post:
Paracelsus, pitbullowner, Samseau
Easy_C Offline
Crow
*****

Posts: 4,791
Joined: Oct 2014
Reputation: 30
Post: #30
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
(02-08-2020 02:20 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  ↑ Agreed.

This reminds me of when right wingers or white nationalists say things like "Leftists are idiots in thinking white people are bad. White people invented the printing press, railroads, cars, computers, Western medicine, etc. Without those inventions, we would still be living in the dark ages and it would be so terrible!"

I agree that leftists are idiots for hating on white people, but the fact that whites brought all this technology into the world didn't exactly make the world a better place, in my opinion.

Plumbing is the single most important technology for improving actual quality of life. Trains are great too. I'm not so sure about the rest of it.
02-08-2020 07:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes Easy_C's post:
Samseau
Paracelsus Offline
Crow
*****
Gold Member

Posts: 6,297
Joined: Sep 2014
Reputation: 150
Post: #31
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
(02-08-2020 07:00 PM)HermeticAlly Wrote:  I tend to think that science has already passed the point of diminishing returns and is, at this point, mostly resulting in the creation of gizmos that encourage us to indulge our worst impulses. It's a useful tool in the hands of a moral civilization, but a recipe for disaster in a godless one.

Science always turns to shit where it is misused. And it is misused almost without exception anywhere mathematically south of engineering, i.e. where science basically can't work to its full or passing potential because it can't eliminate other causes and it can't ask questions which can be disproven. Also see: the "crisis of reproducibility" in social science, where more than two thirds of all studies in these areas can't be replicated. Less than one in three of any study, survey, experiment, or meta-analysis is actually worth anything, since rather the point of the scientific experiment is that you can make your shitty alchemy work more than once under the same conditions somewhere else on the planet.

That in turn is partly because social scientists just do not understand statistics, but it's also because social scientists are seriously godless in that they don't even think they have to follow basic ethics, i.e. don't publish crap for which no harm will be visited upon you if you get it wrong.

Quote:And medical science? Would you prefer it for over half of your children to die in infancy, or lose your wife to some easily-treatable disease because we don't understand the germ theory of disease?

While medical science - at the hard end of biology, i.e. chemical reactions when you get down to it, i.e.e. reproducible and "safe" except when it suddenly isn't, i.e.e.e. Thalidomide, Warferin, DDT - is desirable, medicine as such is not science. There's a reason they call it medical practice ... because they still haven't got it right yet.

In particular medicine has only just started to realise sometimes the cost of intervention (for the patient's health) on a problem is actually equivocal if not downright fucking awful compared to what happens if you leave the problem alone. This is the issue of iatrogenics, summed up in the (supposedy) Hippocratic Oath the first principle of which is primum non nocere, "First, do no harm." That is, don't intervene with the result of making shit even worse.

The irony being that medicine has only in the past hundred years or so started actually observing that principle. It's only been in the past 150 years or so that your odds of survival were better going to a doctor than avoiding them. The Greeks, at least, understood that principle: inscriptions are scattered across one temple after another saying Apollo saved me, my doctor tried to kill me, usually after the patient had bequeathed his fortune to the temple.

Remissas, discite, vivet.
God save us from people who mean well. -storm
02-09-2020 12:36 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 2 users Like Paracelsus's post:
kel, Samseau
ilostabet Offline
Kingfisher
***

Posts: 850
Joined: Jun 2017
Reputation: 24
Post: #32
RE: How the Greeks' abandonment of religion led to science and technology
It seems the iatrogenic trap was escaped only for a brief period of time, because now whenever doctors go on strike in modern nations, mortality rates actually go down.

Pandemics are part and parcel of living in an industrial system.
02-09-2020 09:38 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[-] The following 1 user Likes ilostabet's post:
Paracelsus
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)

Contact Us | RooshV.com | Return to Top | Return to Content | Mobile Version | RSS Syndication