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Teaching English Abroad
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cool guy Offline
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Post: #176
RE: teaching english abroad
(03-26-2013 08:09 PM)houston Wrote:  Cool guy - Will it be easy to get a visa for China or Russia? What exactly is required and do they check? Did you get job offers from America or did you just fly out and start applying?

Yeah, I can "stretch the truth" about being a manager at all my old positions. I'll give them numbers to my "associates" if they want to talk to someone from the company. Honestly, I just want enough money to pay everything and at least to have a little bit of fun while I'm there. It would be nice to save while I'm working though. I don't wanna be stuck in some tiny town with nothing going on but if there's at least good bars/clubs with nice looking women all around the city...

I went to Russia back in October 2007 to August 2008 when a gallon of gas was $5.11 so Russians had alot of cash and the economy was really good. Their economy isn't nearly as good now so the demand for native English teachers isn't as high I would imagine. China would be your best bet as the demand will never match supply, most NATIVE English teachers are women and they are scared to death of Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe so the few men who study or become English majors/teachers end up going there. More than likely you'll be in a city with at least 250,000 people or a university town with plenty of hotties. In most places you'll be offered an apartment with full utilities paid, free internet at work or apartment, free visa with invitation, paid taxes and salary probably between $500 - $1,500 a month depending on the cost of living and hours worked. There are plenty of ways to make extra money while your there so if you think about it getting paid less while working fewer hours may be better or not. There are plenty of ways to make extra cash.
1. Private Lessons - Teach people one on one so they can learn at their own pace.
2. Customized CD's/MP3's - when you're there you can buy anatomy books, car manuals, atlas's, military books etc., and just say the word/name in their language then in English so they know how to pronounce it right.
3. Conversation Time - People want to just have a natural conversation to measure how fast and how in depth their knowledge is. (this got me plenty of free meals in Russia)
4. Translation - advertising, books, music (Urban dictionary for rap music), etc., computer translations are direct and don't always make sense and they need humans although one for the US may not be the same for the UK as styles are different.
5. Other skills - teaching how to playing instruments, other foreign languages, cooking, etc, there is a huge need for everything in Russia and China and they are hungry for it (knowledge) if you know how to cook Italian, Mexican or Indian food even using local ingredients they are down.

Life is short decide what you want and give it a try. The real money is in the middle east you can get $5,000 - $6,000 a month plus an extra $2,000 - $4,000 using everything I showed up top but you need a masters in English or TEFL and at least 5 years experience. If you're a US citizen anything you make under $85,000 a year overseas is not subject to US taxation but you do have to file a tax return anyway even if you make less. If you just want to have fun a college town might be good but if you really want to hustle and make money you may want to try a bigger city.
03-26-2013 11:14 PM
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Vacancier Permanent Offline
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Post: #177
RE: teaching english abroad
Loving your China posts man! Btw, would you mind sharing the info about that agency in HK that got you a biz visa for 300 bucks?
And was that for a 1 year biz visa, right?

Also, while teaching English in China,, did you see any opportunities to use the contacts/connections you made there to get into better jobs/opportunities that were not just teaching? I mean using English teaching as a stepping stone into bigger and better opportunities, career wise, while in China? Specially if your students were rich Chinese or execs or high management guys?

Cheers!

(03-26-2013 09:10 PM)Suits Wrote:  I have spent three years living in China. My first two semesters were as a legitimate student. I did a little teaching in my second semester, under the table, but just a few hours a week.

The second year, I stayed for 12 months straight. Came in on a tourist visa and enrolled part time at a school. Got switched over to a student visa (this is just about impossible to do now, so don't try that move). Stopped going to classes once I got my passport back and no one ever tracked me down. Just worked the rest of the year.

Third year, stayed for 13 months straight. Came in on a 180 day (90 days per entry) 2 entry tourist visa. Stayed 90 days then flew to Korea over night and came back for the second 90 day period.

After that I found a good agency in Hong Kong that could get me business visas no questions asked for about $300. I assume someone was getting paid off or they just had really good connections.

I do not have a degree, but succeeded in making a living working under the table for more than two years in China.

Its risky to some degree, but lots of guys do it (women usually don't have the balls) and you won't pay tax. Even the IRS would never be able to confirm your income. I don't cheat on my taxes, but the CRS has been willing to accept a page from me that lists my monthly earns with no supporting documentation.

I will probably return to China in the future and do the same thing.

It helps if you speak Chinese, but if you are motivated, there are a lot of part time freelance jobs to pick up, which is better than a full time contract, as working 15 hrs part time earns you the same money as a full time 40 hrs a week job.

PM me or post below if you have more detailed questions about teaching in China.
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2013 12:10 AM by Vacancier Permanent.)
03-27-2013 12:02 AM
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Suits Offline
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Post: #178
RE: teaching english abroad
(03-27-2013 12:02 AM)Vacancier Permanent Wrote:  Loving your China posts man! Btw, would you mind sharing the info about that agency in HK that got you a biz visa for 300 bucks?
And was that for a 1 year biz visa, right?

I'm afraid I can't. I forget it's name. I've used it several times, but I just know how to get there. If I can track down the name, I'll PM you. However, there are many that could do this, I'm sure. You just need to ask around. They will not advertise online that they can get you a business visa without the usual support documents, because that would give the game away. But I've heard that there are plenty in the business of doing this sort of thing.

Also, its more difficult for people with US passports to get a business visa for some reason.

And business visas are for 6 months at a time.

Quote:Also, while teaching English in China,, did you see any opportunities to use the contacts/connections you made there to get into better jobs/opportunities that were not just teaching? I mean using English teaching as a stepping stone into bigger and better opportunities, career wise, while in China? Specially if your students were rich Chinese or execs or high management guys?

There are lots of people that will come to you with offers to be business partners, but be very careful with these. I would strongly advise against ever being the business partner of a Chinese citizen. Once profitable, they will screw you out of the business and you won't have any recourse.

As a foreigner, you will be pigeon-holed in a certain way that will restrict your career mobility. Its always cheaper to hire a local Chinese over a foreigner, so unless you have some very special skills (in which case, why are you teaching English), don't count on any vertical moves.

Chinese have no respect for foreigners. You are sub-human in China. You might be both amusing and sub-human or ugly (see black) and sub-human, but they will never see you as an equal. Your country does not have 5000 years of history and that is the end of the matter.

In regards to foreigners, Chinese people have one question: "how can this person benefit me?" Chinese people love to hire foreigners to teach English, because they believe that foreigners have a mystical power to teach proper American accents to their 5 yr old child who still wets the bed, but they don't actually respect the teachers they employ. They are a means to an end.

Chinese people don't believe that foreigners can teach grammar to Chinese people. They use Chinese teachers to do this, because they believe that foreigners lack the necessary intelligence to do this.

See this web comic for more details on how Chinese people relate to foreigners: http://www.laowaicomics.com/71.html

If you want to improve yourself and make serious money in China, you'll essentially have to run your own ship. There are opportunities for the taking and lots of money to be made, but you'll have to be one sly devil to take advantage of it. After all, there are about 100,000 foreign English teachers in China who are f***ing sick of teaching English to fourth graders and wanna do something else.

Having spent time in China and knowing Chinese (even at a basic level) has definitely benefited. It's gotten me jobs in Canada that I wouldn't have even been taken serious for otherwise.

But to make your mark on the Mainland will require some serious skills or a lot of hard work.

*NOTE: The statements that relate to race have nothing to do with my personal perceptions, but are rather a comment on how Chinese people view individuals based on the colour of their skin. I do not intend in anyway to come across in an offensive manner and it has pissed me off in a huge way in the past to see how my African friends were discriminated against in China. If you have any questions about this, please PM me.
Quote:Cheers!

(03-26-2013 09:10 PM)Suits Wrote:  I have spent three years living in China. My first two semesters were as a legitimate student. I did a little teaching in my second semester, under the table, but just a few hours a week.

The second year, I stayed for 12 months straight. Came in on a tourist visa and enrolled part time at a school. Got switched over to a student visa (this is just about impossible to do now, so don't try that move). Stopped going to classes once I got my passport back and no one ever tracked me down. Just worked the rest of the year.

Third year, stayed for 13 months straight. Came in on a 180 day (90 days per entry) 2 entry tourist visa. Stayed 90 days then flew to Korea over night and came back for the second 90 day period.

After that I found a good agency in Hong Kong that could get me business visas no questions asked for about $300. I assume someone was getting paid off or they just had really good connections.

I do not have a degree, but succeeded in making a living working under the table for more than two years in China.

Its risky to some degree, but lots of guys do it (women usually don't have the balls) and you won't pay tax. Even the IRS would never be able to confirm your income. I don't cheat on my taxes, but the CRS has been willing to accept a page from me that lists my monthly earns with no supporting documentation.

I will probably return to China in the future and do the same thing.

It helps if you speak Chinese, but if you are motivated, there are a lot of part time freelance jobs to pick up, which is better than a full time contract, as working 15 hrs part time earns you the same money as a full time 40 hrs a week job.

PM me or post below if you have more detailed questions about teaching in China.

I'm the King of Beijing!
03-27-2013 12:56 AM
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Post: #179
RE: teaching english abroad
What are the main certificates that schools abroad may prefer or require you to have, I have heard of TEFL and CELTA, what's the difference between the two, and is one better to have than the other? Also, what is the best way to get the certificate (online, at a university in the U.S., or one abroad,?), how long does it normally take, and how much does it typically cost?

How much is getting a certificate going to increase your chances of getting hired? Assuming you do have a certificate, what are the best websites to use to try and find jobs?

It seems like we got some people with intel on teaching in Brazil and China, anyone have recent experience in Japan that can give some info on how they got their job, how much it pays, etc.? Also interested in Poland and Croatia.
03-27-2013 01:49 AM
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Post: #180
RE: teaching english abroad
(03-27-2013 01:49 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  What are the main certificates that schools abroad may prefer or require you to have, I have heard of TEFL and CELTA, what's the difference between the two, and is one better to have than the other? Also, what is the best way to get the certificate (online, at a university in the U.S., or one abroad,?), how long does it normally take, and how much does it typically cost?

How much is getting a certificate going to increase your chances of getting hired? Assuming you do have a certificate, what are the best websites to use to try and find jobs?

It seems like we got some people with intel on teaching in Brazil and China, anyone have recent experience in Japan that can give some info on how they got their job, how much it pays, etc.? Also interested in Poland and Croatia.

A certificate is *mostly* not even worth the paper it is printed on in China. The exception being Hong Kong, which is a civilized city state and barely qualifies as "China" on anything more than a political level.

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03-27-2013 01:52 AM
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Post: #181
RE: teaching english abroad
(03-27-2013 01:52 AM)Suits Wrote:  
(03-27-2013 01:49 AM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  What are the main certificates that schools abroad may prefer or require you to have, I have heard of TEFL and CELTA, what's the difference between the two, and is one better to have than the other? Also, what is the best way to get the certificate (online, at a university in the U.S., or one abroad,?), how long does it normally take, and how much does it typically cost?

How much is getting a certificate going to increase your chances of getting hired? Assuming you do have a certificate, what are the best websites to use to try and find jobs?

It seems like we got some people with intel on teaching in Brazil and China, anyone have recent experience in Japan that can give some info on how they got their job, how much it pays, etc.? Also interested in Poland and Croatia.

A certificate is *mostly* not even worth the paper it is printed on in China. The exception being Hong Kong, which is a civilized city state and barely qualifies as "China" on anything more than a political level.


Thanks for the reply, I am sure there are a lot of people interested in China, but I got to say that I have very little desire to go there, at least compared to other countries. I have heard having a certificate helps a lot in other countries, but I need to figure out which ones.
03-27-2013 01:54 AM
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Post: #182
RE: teaching english abroad
Thank you for the very informative reply! Much appreciated!
I'm also Canadian citizen so reading that you got the 90 day visa on your 2nd try, that's very encouraging to hear for me!

Which agency did you use to get your Chinese visa? And how much did they charge you for that? Any reason why you went through an agency as opposed to doing it yourself? Were you applying for a tourist visa? or a student or work or business visa? Yes by all means, when you do remember the name of the agency in HK that provided you the business visa for 300!

I agree with you that it wouldn't be a wise idea to get into a business with a Chinese. I've also heard some horror stories exactly similar to what you wrote. Better to stay solo or if/when really needed, another fellow westerner.

I am not going to China to teach English even tough it did cross my mind and I even got an offer when I was there. My main reason to go there is to do business there.

Thanks again for all your insightful feedback!

Cheers!
(This post was last modified: 03-27-2013 02:52 PM by Vacancier Permanent.)
03-27-2013 02:51 PM
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Post: #183
RE: teaching english abroad
can you teach aboard with misdemeanors on your record?
04-01-2013 08:19 AM
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Post: #184
RE: teaching english abroad
(04-01-2013 08:19 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  can you teach aboard with misdemeanors on your record?

It depends on the country and school. Saudi Arabia won't let you in from what I've read but some rinky-dink little school in a second or third tier city in Siberia or China could probably care less.
04-01-2013 12:35 PM
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Post: #185
RE: teaching english abroad
Any new Intel for 2014 out there? Interested in new up to date horror and success stories in the global TESL world. I'm personally interested in Colombia, S. Korea, Japan, Thailand, China, Brazil for 2014 but would like to hear from anyone who has something current to say on the subject. Most fun country/city/town to teach in 2014? Best paying? Easiest place to get a job? Places to avoid in 2014?
07-24-2013 04:32 PM
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Post: #186
RE: teaching english abroad
I'm on week three of the CELTA. It's no joke, definitely a lot of work. I'll be blitzing the TEFL employers across EE and Russia when I finish (maybe even parts of Asia or Dubia).

"...it's the quiet cool...it's for someone who's been through the struggle and come out on the other side smelling like money and pussy."

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07-24-2013 06:48 PM
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RE: teaching english abroad
(07-24-2013 06:48 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  I'm on week three of the CELTA. It's no joke, definitely a lot of work. I'll be blitzing the TEFL employers across EE and Russia when I finish (maybe even parts of Asia or Dubia).

Where are you doing the CELTA? How long is the course? How much does it cost?
07-24-2013 09:17 PM
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Post: #188
RE: teaching english abroad
(07-24-2013 09:17 PM)Purple Urkle Wrote:  
(07-24-2013 06:48 PM)presidentcarter Wrote:  I'm on week three of the CELTA. It's no joke, definitely a lot of work. I'll be blitzing the TEFL employers across EE and Russia when I finish (maybe even parts of Asia or Dubia).

Where are you doing the CELTA? How long is the course? How much does it cost?

I'm taking it in Atlanta. It runs four weeks, M-F 9-5 with at least a few hours of work each night and some on weekends as well. It costs $2700, which is on the high end, but worked out for me as I was able to do it in the city where I'm currently paying rent anyway.

Google "celta locations" to see locations and the companies that teach them. Then google the company names to find prices and dates. Many schools only teach it a few times a year. It's taught all over the world for varying prices (ie: in Poland it's about $1200, but you'd have to factor in flight and rent if you're not already living there).

"...it's the quiet cool...it's for someone who's been through the struggle and come out on the other side smelling like money and pussy."

"put her in the taxi, put her number in the trash can"
07-27-2013 08:50 PM
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Post: #189
RE: teaching english abroad
(03-25-2013 07:15 PM)houston Wrote:  How hard is it to get a work visa? Are certain countries a lot easier than others?

I don't know if your question has been answered yet but I'll answer it.

Process:
  1. Go to country's embassy website, search for "visa"...it should be on te menu, most of the time.
  2. Download Forms
  3. Fill such forms
  4. Take some passport photos
  5. Fill your FBI Nationwide Background Check form
  6. Get finger printed and wait for your clear record documentation (2-3 weeks)
  7. If there's a medical to take, take it while your clear BGC comes back
  8. Set up an appointment
  9. Go to appointment
  10. Wait for your visa

Any country will require at the very least:
passport photos,
medical check (STDs/AIDS/X-rays)*,
"Clear" background check documentation from the FBI**.


* - The less developed the country is, the more stringent they are on medicals. UK doesn't check for much, but Saudi/Mexico/Chile/China have longer boxes to check off. China and Chile require you to have another medical once you arrive there within 30-45 days. You fail then, you get kicked out.

** - FBI search include any arrest in the US, unless it has been expunged or committed as a juvenile. China and Saudi are strict about this, again...the less developed the country is the stricter they will be. My friend got a student visa to Russia with a DUI but I doubt he could get a work visa.Click here for FBI background check page

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07-28-2013 12:32 AM
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Post: #190
RE: teaching english abroad
Just had my third all-nighter during celta...hopefully my last (largely due to not working a lot on the weekend). I have to teach one more time before finishing on Friday. Fun stuff.

"...it's the quiet cool...it's for someone who's been through the struggle and come out on the other side smelling like money and pussy."

"put her in the taxi, put her number in the trash can"
07-31-2013 06:21 AM
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RE: teaching english abroad
(07-24-2013 04:32 PM)Purple Urkle Wrote:  Any new Intel for 2014 out there? Interested in new up to date horror and success stories in the global TESL world. I'm personally interested in Colombia, S. Korea, Japan, Thailand, China, Brazil for 2014 but would like to hear from anyone who has something current to say on the subject. Most fun country/city/town to teach in 2014? Best paying? Easiest place to get a job? Places to avoid in 2014?

I was in Thailand from February to the end of April. Talking to expats its was too easy getting a job. Average about 1100-1400. Most school want a degree and cert. I had one interview and another two on deck but ended up getting a job here in the States for a year. I am going to either finish my associates or buy a fake degree for 800. Alot of the ex teachers started off teaching then moved on to better things. I am a reservist so I would have been good for a contrators job working for the embassey.

Cost of living in Thailand is low. You can live with the locals for 300. Or find an expat apartment for 5-800. I found a spot on Soi 5 in sukcumvit for 550 a month.

Get your experience in Thailand, party and make contacts then find a better job. Or stack break and gain experience then move to S Korea or Japan for the real money. Personally making 2k in Thailand is comfortable for me. There are a few websites I have posted in lifestyle to look for jobs. May and October are the hiring months in Thailand. Alot of language center dont ask for degrees. Alot of schools sponser you for your visa, otherwise you are making border tuns every two months.

Being on ground is a plus. Take a business photo, have a good cv, being a native speaker is a huge plus especially from America. Brits and Aussies are hearder to understand. Make local contacts and they will have hookups. I had a contact that would hire me on the spot but didnt save the number. Ill be back there next Fall.

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07-31-2013 07:19 PM
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RE: teaching english abroad
(07-24-2013 04:32 PM)Purple Urkle Wrote:  Any new Intel for 2014 out there? Interested in new up to date horror and success stories in the global TESL world. I'm personally interested in Colombia, S. Korea, Japan, Thailand, China, Brazil for 2014 but would like to hear from anyone who has something current to say on the subject. Most fun country/city/town to teach in 2014? Best paying? Easiest place to get a job? Places to avoid in 2014?

At the moment, I'd say take a stab at China. I just took a look at an online job board and there are more than 700 open teaching jobs in Shanghai alone. The same site has more than 4500 jobs listed for all of China. You'll have no problem getting a position and it should be easy to put away a significant amount of cash. If you go to a tier one city and line up a jobs correctly you earn the equivalent of AT LEAST USD 2500-3000 and have no problem getting girls (assuming you're not a fat, ugly ogre but even then you should still get laid).

I arrived here about three weeks ago and picked up a great job within the first week. I'll be teaching a subject (not ESL) in an international school for twenty 45 minute periods a week starting at the beginning of September. Work hours are 8 am to 4 pm. The director said I could just surf the internet, plan lessons, take a nap, or go play basketball in the gym when I'm not teaching. I'll probably do all of the above and also use the time to work on some business projects I've got going.

Monthly salary is twice what I was making in Korea in 2009-2010 with all the same perks plus free meals during the week. I'm estimating I'll put away 32-35k in the next 10 months then take a nice little break in the Philippines, Indo, or Thailand at the end of June 2014.

If you're in China, you'll also get hit up for all kinds of part-time work. You'll have it coming out of your ears. I just spent parts of the last 7 days preparing a 19 year old kid for his US visa interview. The international school director hooked me up with it. Pretty easy stuff for 3 hours a day and 200 RMB per hour. No lesson planning or discussing verb tenses, how to compose an analytic essay, etc. Just conversation coaching. I think I could have actually gotten more per hour but didn't bother asking. I got a fat envelope full of red 100s today after I finished. Tax man doesn't know.

I'll also be doing a summer camp the week after next. I have to run down to HK in a couple days and convert my vsa. The camp is one week, M-F, 7 hours a day, 200 RMB per hour + 1500 RMB for designing the curriculum. It took me less than 5 hours to put together the curriculum and lessons plans for the week so I'm going to pull 8500 RMB for about 40 hours of work. Only 3.5 of those 7 hours are actual instructional hours. The rest of the time I could probably just sip on a flask in the corner or go shoot hoops haha. I'm laughing but it's not a joke. The rates are all after taxes. Housing and meals are also covered so it'll just be money in the bank minus beer and pussy expenses.

You won't find that kind of set up anywhere else in Asia. I've checked. This is the place to be right now. Salaries are rising across the board and people have money to spend. Education is in demand. Forget about Korea and Japan. Thailand is good for some fun but wages are shit and they'll stay that way as long as 52 year old whore mongers are willing to work for 1000 bucks per month and no benefits (No offense intended).

Save some money in China, make some investments, maybe pick up a nice condo somewhere that you can rent out (Vegas? BKK?), and then use the two month summer break and one month spring festival to do your traveling.

Things are pretty cheap here too. I picked up a decent, unlocked Lenovo smart phone the other day for 650 RMB. 66 RMB per month gets you 50 minutes of outgoing calls, unlimited texting, and 300 GB (?) data. No need for a contract, just pay whenever.

Yesterday, I bought a good quality short-sleeved collared shirt for 39 RMB. It fits well so I'm going to wear it out tonight. It would have ran me $35-50 in the States. Here it's barely $6.

The quality of food varies. A lot of it is good but some is shit. Supposedly you have to worry about chemicals and bacteria but I haven't had any problems. I've been having meals on the street that run me 5-15 RMB all the way up to a quality, multi course Japanese meal with 7-8 or big Asahi draft beers that ran around 250 RMB. My buddy from AZ was in town for a couple days so we drank so much that I don't really remember the exact cost. That's an estimate from the morning after.

Yesterday I went and had some Hunan food with the Chinese guy who works the counter at the hotel (IMHO, so far the Chinese guys are way cooler and less suspicious of your intentions than the Korean and Thai guys). Pardon the bad photo, but something like that (2 spicy mixed vegetables & beef/pork dishes, cabbage & spicy beef, an a order of Mapo tofu, and 4 Tsingtao Drafts, 2 each) was about 60 RMB per person. No way you could do that at PF Chang's.

   

As for pussy... Although I think the avg. quality is lower in China compared to BKK, Seoul, or Tokyo, there are so many more people and being foreign is such a spectacle that no one should have a problem here. The day I landed the job, I took a girl from the hotel on a mini date to the local park. No purchases besides a couple mango smoothies. We just spent a couple hours walking around and talking. Nice girl from the provinces. I didn't get it the first night but since she's living in the hotel I picked up the notch a couple nights later over a few 2.6 RMB "Snow" beers on the balcony. (A negative is that, although cheap at 1.5 to 7 RMB for 660 ml, the beer is pretty week. Alcohol %s are 2.6 to 4.2%. IMO, just a small negative that might actually be a positive if you want to cut down on drinking).

I've been busy getting my shit in order so I haven't gamed that hard. I do get quality looks just walking around dressed nicely and I have experience here in Asia so I'm not the least bit worried. A few weeks and I'll have put all the pieces together. I'm still in a hotel right now so it's kind of limiting. I have an online girl tonight so we'll see how it goes.

I'm going to give it two months and then post a data sheet. Maybe something like, "How to Land a Quality Teaching Gig in China, Get Started on Your Nest Egg, and Slay." This will finally be something I can contribute with.

All in all, this shit's shaping up to be easy as pie. I think of all the garbage I'd have to be going through back home to be positioned like this and just smile. Friends back home really have no idea. It's kind of pitiable, really.

I'll be busy the next two weeks doing the visa run and working a camp but any of you guys can hit me up if you're in SH. Just PM.

(07-31-2013 07:19 PM)TexasMade Wrote:  I was in Thailand from February to the end of April.... Talking to expats its was too easy getting a job. Average about 1100-1400. Most school want a degree and cert....

...Cost of living in Thailand is low. You can live with the locals for 300. Or find an expat apartment for 5-800. I found a spot on Soi 5 in sukcumvit for 550 a month...

Get your experience in Thailand, party and make contacts then find a better job. Or stack break and gain experience then move to S Korea or Japan for the real money. Personally making 2k in Thailand is comfortable for me.

... Ill be back there next Fall.

Good post. Almost all of it is spot on.

USD 2k, or 60k baht/month, is more than enough to live comfortably in BKK. In the provinces you'll be considered rich by 99% of the people. If you have a year. Most new guys will earn 30-50K baht per month. This is adequate to have some fun and save a few hundred USD per month. Not gonna make you rich but you'll have a good time.

9k baht ($300) should get you a pretty decent apartment

Like I already wrote above, the only thing I'd say is that China is better for money than Korea and Japan. This equates to being able to save 2 to 3 times as much in China as you would in those countries.

Job hunting advice is sound. Get here and find a quality job. Save the 2-3k you need to get over here and do it.

It beats the living shit out of making $15-20 an hour at a dead end job in some place like Indiana. IMO, the quality of life I have here is better than if I was making 90k per year in the States. Maybe better than if I was making more, I don't know I'm just basing it on cost/tax comparisons. Even though I'm set to make about half that 90k I referenced, the money just goes so much farther, expenses are minimal, and taxes are a fraction of what they are in the States. Plus, you get to see something new almost every day and deal with girls who have pleasant attitudes. To me, that's invaluable.

Cliche, but... Just Do it. No risk, no reward.
08-02-2013 05:08 AM
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RE: teaching english abroad
jdreise I have a college degree from the US and online esl degree do I just show up in china with no visa? Could you walk me though it assuming I fly from Mexico city(i am in mexico) to city x in china. Do I need a any visa before hand? any job links before hand? chinese speaking skills? assume they will arange housing? thanks

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08-02-2013 05:30 AM
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Post: #194
RE: teaching english abroad
(08-02-2013 05:30 AM)bacon Wrote:  jdreise I have a college degree from the US and online esl degree do I just show up in china with no visa? Could you walk me though it assuming I fly from Mexico city(i am in mexico) to city x in china. Do I need a any visa before hand? any job links before hand? chinese speaking skills? assume they will arange housing? thanks

You will need to get a work (Z) visa before you arrive to china. Before you could change visas in china but they gov't changed the rules before the Olympics. Don't accept a job that tells you can come with a tourist visa, you might get caught and deported.

The provinces pay less but it's cheaper too. JD has it pretty good, as far as I remember you need an education degree to work in an international school since he is a "full fledged teacher". Any degree to teach English but the pay will be lower.

Try "Dave's ESL Cafe" to search for jobs, JD probably has more info on that though as there might be China-specific websites with better pay.

Some schools offer to give you X amount of hours for Chinese lessons. The ones that require you to speak Chinese (as a full fledged teacher) will pay more. Some will give you accommodation, some will give you a stipend for accommodation. I would say, stipend for smaller cities and accommodation for bigger cities ( as rent is much higher there).

Source: I was looking to teach there and did my research a few months ago and reading teacher's blogs/forums.

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08-02-2013 06:01 AM
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RE: teaching english abroad
@jdreise: How can you save 2g's+ a month on an $1100 month salary in China? Private lessons? I've received two offers, one in Zhuhai at RMB 6300 and one in Haikou for RMB 5000. Nice, clean cities at the beach... is that why the offers are so low? Am I gonna' have to live in smog infested Beijing to get better offers? Mind you, I have an MA and 17 years experience as a teacher at all levels of the American education system... 10 or 12 bucks an hour? Is this what to expect or I'm missing something here?
08-02-2013 07:21 PM
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Post: #196
Information RE: teaching english abroad
Heads up! If you want a quick and dirty ESL certification that will get you past the bureaucracy in Korea, China, Thailand and a few other countries around the world, get the 160 hour Premier Plus TEFL Course for $69! No, I don’t work for them and I don’t get any “kickbacks”. I have four friends who have used it over the last few months. Not a single one had a problem with using the certification to get a job. http://www.groupon.com/deals/tesol-express-7-las-vegas is where they got the deal. There main company web site is http://www.tesolexpressonline.com If that Groupon offer expires, I know for certain that you can email or call the company directly and they will still give you the deal instead of making you pay the suckers price. Keep in mind that you will need to purchase your certificate once you’ve finished the course. At the time of this posting, an emailed copy of the certificate cost $20 and a hard copy cost $30 (including shipping).

It’s totally online and has almost no interaction with a living person except for the few “papers” you send in. One of my friends completed the whole thing in less than seven days. I picked it up because at that price I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

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(This post was last modified: 08-02-2013 07:42 PM by Kwisatz.)
08-02-2013 07:42 PM
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RE: teaching english abroad
Just wanted to add: some schools state "no online certification" in their ads.

Online certification is cheap and fast, I'll do it too...but it's not 100% recognized comapred to an in-person certification.

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08-02-2013 10:45 PM
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Post: #198
RE: teaching english abroad
(08-02-2013 05:30 AM)bacon Wrote:  jdreise I have a college degree from the US and online esl degree do I just show up in china with no visa? Could you walk me though it assuming I fly from Mexico city(i am in mexico) to city x in china. Do I need a any visa before hand? any job links before hand? chinese speaking skills? assume they will arange housing? thanks
I just arrived on a double entry 30-day tourist visa. I applied at a Chinese consulate in a SE Asian country before coming and this was the only option available. I'd recommend getting the 60 or 90 day visa in the US so you have more time to convert the tourist visa to a Z-visa when in country.

It seems a lot of info about the Z-visa is circumstantial. My school director said it's no problem FOR HIM to convert the tourist visa to a work visa while in China but he needs at least 5-6 weeks to do so because of a backlog of appointments for getting a health check at the local hospital. Some other employers I interviewed with said that they prefer to do it in Hong Kong. I've spoken to some of the other teachers at the school and they had no problem converting their tourist visas while in China. I think it just depends on who knows who.

Bottom line, just come on the tourist visa and look for work. You can get a visa from abroad or fly into HK and get it. Maybe even try what Suits recommended above and get the $300 year long biz visa and work under the table. I don't know about that so I can't vouch. I don't know if you can get the longer visas in DF so you might have to head back to the States and have a try. Might be worth checking with some Chinese travel agencies in Mexico.

For jobs, look at this site: http://jobs.echinacities.com/

It's where I found mine and I've had lots of recruiters calling me everyday offering full and part time work. Keep in mind that I was in-country when I started applying. Better positions might just delete your application if they see you're on the other side of the planet.

I just interviewed this morning for a Saturday job offering 220 RMB per hour for 6 hours every week to read Dr. Seuss books to 4-8 year olds. Extremely easy. They found my resume on that site I listed above. I'm considering it because I know I can show up at 10 am sleep-deprived and hungover and still pull it off. Try that with business professionals and you won't last very long.

24 hours of Saturday reading club will be able to finance nearly a month's worth of expenses in someplace like the Phils. Easy money.

If you want some specific job leads, PM me in a few weeks and I'll hook you up. I'm still trying to build those and suss out the contenders from the pretenders.

Since you have a bachelor's and tefl, you're more than qualified. In some eyes you're already more qualified than me. All I have is a bachelor's in the subject I'll be teaching, 3 years of ESL and AP/SAT test prep experience, and a US passport. The fact that I was here in-person, put together a good resume, and look the part is what landed me a position with an international program.

Also, my Chinese is extremely limited. I had almost forgotten everything I learned from when I traveled throughout China a couple years ago but have been studying the last week. When I arrived, I knew things like numbers and basic travel phrases but still can't conduct anything near a conversation. I'm a visual learner so I do okay with the characters and pick up on menus and signs pretty quickly. It'll be more of an issue if you get into the 2nd and 3rd tiers cities and rural areas where roman characters are not used alongside the Chinese characters as often. In the first tier, or top 2nd tier, you'll be fine.

If you do get a job from abroad (and I wouldn't do this unless it's a VERY reputable school), then they will set you up with housing from the day you arrive. If you show up and find a job, most employers will set you up with an apartment or give you a monthly stipend. Mine's 3000 RMB a month-- more than enough to have a nice 2 bedroom place. 2000 RMB will get you 1 or 2 bedrooms in a first tier and a huge place in the second or third tier.

Let me know if you have more questions.

(08-02-2013 06:01 AM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  You will need to get a work (Z) visa before you arrive to china. Before you could change visas in china but they gov't changed the rules before the Olympics. Don't accept a job that tells you can come with a tourist visa, you might get caught and deported.
Like I said above, you don't need the Z visa before you come. If the employer is worth a shit, it can be done once here or in HK.

Quote:you need an education degree to work in an international school since he is a "full fledged teacher". Any degree to teach English but the pay will be lower.
I don't have an education degree. Sorry, I didn't explain that before. Demand for teachers here is through the roof. Have a look at that site I posted. There are regular ESL jobs on there with salaries in the neighborhood of 12-18k RMB. This is the starting rate. If you're here, you should be able to negotiate higher. I negotiated an extra 4000 RMB per month.

Quote:Try "Dave's ESL Cafe" to search for jobs, JD probably has more info on that though as there might be China-specific websites with better pay.

Don't use eslcafe.com. Personally, I'd avoid it like the plague. I had a look around there a few months ago and clicked off within a couple minutes. That is place that's often thrown around for newbies to start out their research. 6000 RMB per month to teach 25 hours in a language academy?!? GTFO!!! Those are the worst jobs around and the people who take them don't know any better. If you want a good ESL job, you have to come and find it. I can't say that enough.

If you're looking at China, use these in addition to echinacities:

http://chinahot.com
http://thebeijinger.com
http://cityweekend.com.cn

There are others but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

(08-02-2013 07:21 PM)Purple Urkle Wrote:  @jdreise: How can you save 2g's+ a month on an $1100 month salary in China? Private lessons? I've received two offers, one in Zhuhai at RMB 6300 and one in Haikou for RMB 5000. Nice, clean cities at the beach... is that why the offers are so low? Am I gonna' have to live in smog infested Beijing to get better offers? Mind you, I have an MA and 17 years experience as a teacher at all levels of the American education system... 10 or 12 bucks an hour? Is this what to expect or I'm missing something here?

I'm set to make 23,000 per month plus housing, contract completion bonus, health insurance, and vacation. I don't spend much on consumer goods so that's how I'm going to save so much. Any job advertising at 7000 RMB per month had better be in the sticks or have no office hours and all your classes lined up in a row so you can get out of there in 3 or 4 hours and onto your higher paying gigs. If it's anything other than that, avoid it and look elsewhere.

Or... you could show up here, get the interview, convince them that you're the one they want, and then start negotiating. I think you could easily turn 7k into 10k if you play your cards right. Of course, some positions won't negotiate but you don't want to work somewhere that's strapped for cash. China is full of cash. They can pony up if they want to.

That's what I'd do if I was adamant about being in a certain location.

I guess it really depends on where you want to live. The beach or the city? Perhaps the mountains? I didn't like Beijing but SH, Tianjin, Qingdao, Shenzhen, and Guangzhou all seemed okay. Ningbo is nice too and bit smaller but still big. Maybe check out Xiamen. I haven't been there but I've heard it's one of the more beautiful cities in China and has a really nice climate. Lots of islands and beaches in that region.

Also, take a look at Kunming. It's my favorite city in China for several reasons but the salaries are a bit lower. Since you have advanced qualifications and experience, you should have no problem finding a position a good position there. It's very cheap in Yunnan and extremely beautiful-- a mix of China, Tibet, and Southeast Asia. Good food and interesting looking women. Perhaps, google int'l schools and also take a look at this site:
http://gokunming.com

I can't really comment on Zhuhai or Haikou because I haven't been to either, however I personally wouldn't choose to come to China for its beaches. From what I've seen and heard they range from decent to heavily polluted. For me, the choice was between the money and dynamism of the first tier or the nice nature, good food, and good climate in western provinces of Yunnan or Sichaun. I'm younger so I went with money.

With your quals, you can always get a job at an international school and then use your 3 months of vacation to escape to Southeast Asia, Russia, or Central Asia. With 17 years of experience and an MA, 6300 RMB is waaaayyy too low even for a supposedly less polluted place like Haikou unless you have the conditions that I described above. You could then bolster you income with private lessons or part time academy work that pays from 120 all the way up to 400 RMB per hour.
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2013 06:22 AM by jdreise.)
08-03-2013 06:18 AM
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Post: #199
RE: teaching english abroad
@jdreise: Thank you so much for info. Was just about to sign in Zhuhai but am gonna' hold off. There are good waves on Hainan Island and hardly any surf culture. Funny, because there are a lot of surfboards and surf products made in China. I'm thinking there could be money down there in the future giving surf lessons or opening a surf school/camp? Haikou has the cleanest air in all of China, and I hear the water is pretty clean. However, the university there is only offering RMB 5000 and I imagine the cost of living is a bit high with the city of Sanya being a resort and vacation spot for wealthy Chinese. Any thoughts?
08-03-2013 07:28 AM
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Post: #200
RE: teaching english abroad
Lets be real.... They say you need a "BA" degree.... but do they really check? Couldn't you just print one out in photoshop? Are they really going to verify? Wouldn't just being white, having a solid bullshit resume and able to speak english be enough?... I would think from a Chinese mindset, having a good looking young white man is giving the school serious clout and looks good for business...
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2013 08:33 AM by Majestic.)
08-03-2013 08:28 AM
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