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Women Initiating Physical Violence
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speakeasy Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
(12-30-2011 06:18 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  If you watch closely, you can see Huerta stomp on his head while he's on the ground, but I do agree that he was definitely not the only one attacking the guy. Anyways, I'm not really arguing for the video being fake or not - I wasn't there so I can't say.

But as far as the white knight thing, I personally don't subscribe to the whole idea that any case of kicking the shit out of some guy who lays a chick out like a man is beta and white knight, etc. Where I come from shit like that does not fly and it never will with me. You won't catch me running around sticking up for women to get in their pants, but some situations raise the need for it, in my opinion. Maybe I'm old fashioned.

The white knight hating just seems to be a bit of a bandwagon a lot of players are jumping on lately but I think it's a generalization and doesn't necessarily produce anything positive.

Look, I'm not for or against Huerta. But that guy had it coming and I certainly don't hate on the ass kicking he got - just some street justice. It's one thing to bitch slap some chick that attacks you or pushes you to the max - it's another to run up on some girl like that and try to put your fist through her skull.

You gotta realize that a dude that size could have killed her hitting her like that. If my mom or sister got jacked up like that at a bar or club and everyone just sat there like it was all good, I'd be steaming. If someone I knew saw it and didn't stand up for them, they'd be next to dead to me. As for the guy that did it...

Who knows, maybe the chick killed his damn kid for all I know - nobody watching knows the story behind it, and every situation is different. But that's also why I think calling any time a man stands up for what he believes in this way white knighting is not really worth subscribing to.

From my perspective, standing up for what you believe in takes courage and the world would be a fucked up place if we didn't have certain cultural boundaries in place. From my perspective, not enough men do stand up for the right thing.

And it's easy to say Huerta didn't need courage because others were jumping in there too, but he had no way of knowing they would and for all he knew he was walking into a bullet. Not to mention that as you said, that guy was pretty big.

Eloquently put. Really couldn't have said it better myself and I agree with every sentence you wrote. I was going to drive that point home too. Too much bandwagon thinking about "white knights" and such. If that had been your own sister, anyone would have been thanking Huerta for what he did.

Yours was a very mature and sane response to this. +1
12-30-2011 08:37 PM
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misterstir Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
@crp33, Huerta can fuck up any guy who is in his weight range give or take 10 pounds, yeah sure. But the average UFC fighter is training to fight people of similar height, weight and reach. Its a totally different game, it doesn't take much for a big man to knock out even a well trained man. and what exactly is Huerta's training. He is not a boxer (who is trained to move in an elusive way) or a black belt. Unless your a heavy weight fighter or near it, you'll be at a big disadvantage fighting people double your weight.
@Beyond Borders
Lets assume that the whole video was real. Again no one ever sees Huerta lay a punch on the guy, but you do see several other people run and attack the big guy blind siding him. Its more likely one of Huerta's friends tripped him from behind and Huerta stomped on his head, I can believe that explanation, actually its quite plausible.

Maybe you are old fashion, we wasn't there but I don't think Huerta knew the reason he laid that girl out, and given that he didn't go to jail for it, it seems she might have deserved it. Some guys who wake up and beat a woman for NO REASON might deserver a butt kicking. But that girl looked like the mouthy kind to provoke a man, but of course that can't be proven it is just my bias take on the situation. Yeah I have no clue of the circumstances, but my bet is that the guy was provoked in some way or another, as in he was likely hit by her first. Anyways, i don't think he got a good hit on her, she was backing away and he almost fell over.

White Knighting is when some man whose its none of his damn business goes and runs in to save the day for the "daimsal in distress" just to please the woman, he is just another form of woman pleaser and a beta male. The question is would the average man go and beat up another stranger man because he punched another smaller loud mouth (and likely deserving of a punch) in the face. I can say most men would not. They might try to stop the fight if it was sustained but they would not care. This behaviour is ultimately beta because its not in some kind principle, it is based in pleasing/protecting women. they want equality, let them have it.

O No doubt Heurta had balls to go up to him and confront him. Once you weight over 200 pounds and know how to throw a good punch, it doesn't take much to knock a guy out.

If we use the sister argument, then the same goes for everything. What if some guy was gaming your sister, well then I guess he deserves to be punched out too and then by that logic none of us should be here trying to bang women because it could be your sister. And don't watch boxing matches or ufc because that could be your family too, no porno or fb/fwb/ harems etc either, no hookers, and nothing immoral just go to church and live in 1940.

I wasn't there but my experience with young women is they have an aggression that is more than most men. They think they can punch, scratch or otherwise hit you and its cool until you sock em in the face. In full disclosure I orginate from a country where a woman would never hit a man and men beat women for sport. And that is equally wrong but women who hit men and think its cool are in the same bucket to me - maybe even lower.
12-30-2011 08:51 PM
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misterstir Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
(12-29-2011 03:15 PM)basilransom Wrote:  Generally I'd agree.

But, doing nothing and letting her hurt you, within reason, may have its uses. Especially if you get it on tape, you might be able to press assault charges against her. If you had simply restrained her, you wouldn't get hurt, no charges to file. Zero consequences for her. When you can't play the game like a man without serious repercussions, you gotta play it like a bitch. Be formless.

Just a thought.

See this:



This shit is mad funny. The irony is the fact that he didn't hit her back only pissed her off more which is why she kept going. I was of the opinion if a bitch hits you, lay that ho out, but now I am having 2nd thoughts. toronto policemen love to knock a bitch out because its the only time they can legal fist a girl right in her loud mouth and not get in trouble and I'd like to see that especialy if he tazed a ho after.

Now, where are all tthe white knights saying they'd run in and sock this bitch in the face for kicking a guy in the head and the back of the head spitting in his face, punching him in the back of the head in an unfettered assault. When a man "beats" a woman its a single punch to shut her up. When a woman beats a man it is a 8 minute beat down of kicks, spits and punches and scratches which is far worse. The only thing lower is the white knight beta coward with no spine to stand up to scum woman and who want to fight men who stand up to women. You can even tell that male officer is beta. If i was that officer and that bitch bit me and kneed me in groin, I'd pound her face with fist until she looked like a balloon and stomp her down. What next, are you white knights going to defend beating and biting male police officers too as long as the offender is female? Bullllshit
12-30-2011 09:26 PM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #29
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  @Beyond Borders
Lets assume that the whole video was real. Again no one ever sees Huerta lay a punch on the guy, but you do see several other people run and attack the big guy blind siding him. Its more likely one of Huerta's friends tripped him from behind and Huerta stomped on his head, I can believe that explanation, actually its quite plausible.


I'm not arguing that and I already agreed that other people were involved. It doesn't really concern me what happened that night. All I said was they guy had it coming. I'm not really sure why you're so concerned about discussing whether or not Huerta did it when no on else here seems worried about it.


(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  Maybe you are old fashion, we wasn't there but I don't think Huerta knew the reason he laid that girl out, and given that he didn't go to jail for it, it seems she might have deserved it. Some guys who wake up and beat a woman for NO REASON might deserver a butt kicking. But that girl looked like the mouthy kind to provoke a man, but of course that can't be proven it is just my bias take on the situation. Yeah I have no clue of the circumstances, but my bet is that the guy was provoked in some way or another, as in he was likely hit by her first.

You're jumping to some huge conclusions here. This is the bone I have to pick with immediately labeling people white knights. Too many of this kind of thought process is based on the idea of all women being evil and "deserving" shit like this. Maybe that's not your thought process but your assumptions based on the couple seconds this woman was in the video is eye-raising, imo.

Anyhow, did he NOT go to jail for it? I'm not familiar enough with this situation to know that - perhaps you are? But even if I did know, you can rest assured that who the cops arrest and convict has little to do with my own sense of justice. You can hardly count on that to ever prove anything in this world.

Personally, I'll wipe my ass with a lawbook before I ever start basing my own ideas of right and wrong on what the cops and the courts do.



(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  Anyways, i don't think he got a good hit on her, she was backing away and he almost fell over.

Whether the punch landed or not, he sure as shit tried to put his all into it. I'd have to watch the video again, but I thought he got her pretty good.



(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  White Knighting is when some man whose its none of his damn business goes and runs in to save the day for the "daimsal in distress" just to please the woman, he is just another form of woman pleaser and a beta male. The question is would the average man go and beat up another stranger man because he punched another smaller loud mouth (and likely deserving of a punch) in the face. I can say most men would not. They might try to stop the fight if it was sustained but they would not care. This behaviour is ultimately beta because its not in some kind principle, it is based in pleasing/protecting women. they want equality, let them have it.

I don't really want to argue the idea behind the white knighting thing. All I'm saying is that I think it's a generalization and a bandwagon I personally don't want to jump on because a lot of it seems more based on resentment and frustration towards women than anything else. It is a real phenomenon, but it's not the only phenomenon.

Not to mention that this line of thought assumes that men do this sort of thing because they want to please the woman. Many men do it based on principle rather than out of a desire for approval, and ignoring that is just simplistic and doesn't help anything. When a man hits a woman like that in public, in a club situation, my first thought would be that either he's friends with every dude in the place, well-connected, or is packing a gun. It takes balls to go after him anyways, and as far as I saw Huerta was just calling him out on it and trying to make sense of what the fuck he was thinking to do such a thing.

The concept of the white knight can be constructive when it forces us to recognize the problems it does cause, but when it gets to the point where we as a community are labeling every time a guy gets involved to help out a woman a case of white knighting, it's doing more harm than good. Not to mention it's just not a realistic paradigm.



(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  If we use the sister argument, then the same goes for everything. What if some guy was gaming your sister, well then I guess he deserves to be punched out too and then by that logic none of us should be here trying to bang women because it could be your sister. And don't watch boxing matches or ufc because that could be your family too, no porno or fb/fwb/ harems etc either, no hookers, and nothing immoral just go to church and live in 1940.

The point of the sister argument is that it puts you in the shoes of strangers getting abused in the street so you can empathize with them; it has nothing to do with her. If I want my sister protected in a situation like that, than it's only right I treat other men's sisters the same. Do unto others...

As far as someone gaming my sister, that wouldn't bother me at all. Game on. My sister gets around a bit and I don't hate on that at all; if I was a chick I would too. It's not my job to preserve her integrity, and I see sexuality as a healthy thing so why shouldn't she enjoy hers. Hookers? Hey, if she takes money for sex that's her problem. Porn? whatever. UFC and boxing? I really don't get your line of reasoning here and I'm starting to wonder why I even bothered responding because it just seems your grasping for straws here.

But someone laying my sister out with a man-sized punch to the face? Not cool. but again, the point of sister arguments isn't really about her at all - it's about finding a reference point for moral decisions.




(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  I wasn't there but my experience with young women is they have an aggression that is more than most men. They think they can punch, scratch or otherwise hit you and its cool until you sock em in the face. In full disclosure I orginate from a country where a woman would never hit a man and men beat women for sport. And that is equally wrong but women who hit men and think its cool are in the same bucket to me - maybe even lower.

This is definitely true sometimes and I think it's bullshit too; I agree with you. I know women that would knock a chick out if she saw her doing something like that.

I've noticed a lot of guys who talk anger about white knighting alot also immediately assume that "white knighters" are cool with chicks hitting guys. That's not the case - perhaps it is for the actual white knights as you guys discuss them (the theoretical beta) but not for every guy that would defend a woman. That's what bugs me about the whole concept. It's taking all this complicated human behavior and trying to cram it all under this generalized concept that doesn't really fit.



(12-30-2011 09:26 PM)misterstir Wrote:  Now, where are all tthe white knights saying they'd run in and sock this bitch in the face for kicking a guy in the head and the back of the head spitting in his face, punching him in the back of the head in an unfettered assault. When a man "beats" a woman its a single punch to shut her up. When a woman beats a man it is a 8 minute beat down of kicks, spits and punches and scratches which is far worse.



I can only assume you're referring to me so out of the risk of extending this discussion that is bound to go nowhere, I'll continue my responses. I don't think any one here is arguing that this shit here was cool. I thought it was pretty fucked up none of the women there put that bitch in her place and if I was the dude I would have tossed her on her head or at least tried to move away from her. Somebody definitely should have given that woman an ass-kicking, and I know a few women who would - most in this world wouldn't because they'd be scared of the bitch.

As for not running in here to make a comment about that video, I don't run around the internet posting angry comments about how I need to hurt people who are caught on video doing shit I disapprove of. All I said earlier was the dude got what he had coming because someone posted it as an example of a white knight (and I only even bothered saying that because I think it's important to have another point of view beyond the safe consensus as most on this forum seem to agree with you).

Now I have to jump in and state my opinion on every fucked up video posted? I think you're confusing me with your generalized idea of the "white knight."

I would personally be real hesitant to get involved in a situation like this because I wouldn't want that bitch to turn on me and suddenly I'm the guy in the awkward situation with having to restrain from hitting this chick, etc. Not to mention that guy was a bitch for sitting there and just taking it....It's a hard situation and it is one our society hasn't really found a comfortable way to deal with female on male violence, but your generalizations and mocking comments aren't going to get us there.



(12-30-2011 08:51 PM)misterstir Wrote:  The only thing lower is the white knight beta coward with no spine to stand up to scum woman and who want to fight men who stand up to women. You can even tell that male officer is beta. If i was that officer and that bitch bit me and kneed me in groin, I'd pound her face with fist until she looked like a balloon and stomp her down. What next, are you white knights going to defend beating and biting male police officers too as long as the offender is female? Bullllshit



I'm not really sure where you're going with this - you really seem to have a "dog in this fight" for some reason. first off, I don't think there are many people on this planet who would condone the behavior of the woman in this video. No one is defending this tramp.

As far as people who "fight men who stand up to women" being included in the white knight beta coward department, I hardly see how making a decision to fight someone over what you think is right could be a cowardly decision. Perhaps it's all too often a misguided decision, but that doesn't make it cowardly.

People who run about white knight hating would get a lot further in spreading their message by actually understanding the issue rather than cramming it into this generalized box where it doesn't even fit.

To be honest, I was really hesitant about responding to your post because of the bitter and scattered tone of your responses. I'm not here to change your mind on the issue and don't expect to. I'm just saying the guy in the Huerta video had it coming. Whatever led up to the moment, at the very least he knew the unwritten rules of the world he lives in and walked into very dangerous territory to lay a woman out in public like that - he was either too drunk to think it through, lost his shit, or has a complete lack of street sense.

In short, he asked for it, and he got it.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2011 11:36 PM by Beyond Borders.)
12-30-2011 10:57 PM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #30
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
(12-30-2011 08:37 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  Eloquently put. Really couldn't have said it better myself and I agree with every sentence you wrote. I was going to drive that point home too. Too much bandwagon thinking about "white knights" and such. If that had been your own sister, anyone would have been thanking Huerta for what he did.

Yours was a very mature and sane response to this. +1

I appreciate that, Speakeasy. Good to know I'm not the only one who noticed.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
12-30-2011 11:19 PM
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misterstir Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
@Beyond Borders, I don't think that he fought this guy because he believed in some principal of standing up for his beliefs that stronger people shouldn't beat up weaker. Because it is quickly apparent how hypocritical that is assuming he did knock out said guy. this was a single punch and heurta was drunk so he decided to pick a fight, white knight plain and simply. If he was beating her for 8 minutes like that girl in the other video I quoted then I'd agree with you, he'd deserve it. Anyone can lose their temper with a woman and throw a punch doesn't mean the whole bar ought to beat him down for it. These types of interventions are white knighting, plain and simple, because when women are beating men everyone is laughing and chuckling about it. Would Heurta sock that brunnete out in the video who beats the ginger lad, I doubt it. So you see the true motivation of his actions to please women = beta.

Anyways this argument is going nowhere so I think we can agree to end it
12-31-2011 01:34 AM
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Beyond Borders Away
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Post: #32
RE: Women Initiating Physical Violence
(12-31-2011 01:34 AM)misterstir Wrote:  Anyways this argument is going nowhere so I think we can agree to end it

I think that's a wise choice - I can agree with that. Cheers and no hard feelings.

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling
12-31-2011 01:47 AM
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