“If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife”

bucky

Ostrich
How long do you think looks last, anyway? I think the idea that marrying a really hot girl in her 20s will mean a lifetime of fending off men lusting after her is a little unlikely... The same point works against marrying for looks, of course.
Could be wife googles, but my wife is pushing 40 now and I still find her attractive. And of course even if a wife isn't very attractive anymore there are still legions of guys with no standards who will hit it with anything. I've been aware of several torrid affairs where both the man and the woman got hit pretty hard with the ugly stick years before, but it still didn't keep them from committing adultery.
 

Qivar

Pigeon
Great song, with a kernel of truth to it. Godly character is paramount, As ever, it is down to the individual and as individuals we so often come up short when relying on our own power.

I can't even begin to imagine the level of temptation available today, 24/7, to an attractive woman, even a mildly attractive one.

She can have just a single "moment of weakness". Like a literal "moment", where one night she is just so damn horny that all her self control, all her fear of being called a slut, all her principles are overridden by her biological desires. While before apps like Tinder the effort to find a mate for the night may have helped deter her baser impulses, with these apps, she can have a man in her bed (and a hot one at that) in under an hour who won't care if she's in any kind of relationship, has kids, goes to church or anything else about her other than she's sexy and willing.

Only the top 1% of men can relate to such sexual access.

You're spot on with that example,
We are all prey to temptation and lust, in the past you'd mostly lose some sleep or have to get up and occupy your mind off of it somehow, but now it has become so much easier to give in.
This applies more to women, for the reason you mentioned, and is additionally more harmful to them too.
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
Back in the old days Roosh wrote a great article about things he'd require in a wife if he ever got married. Not sure if it's still out there or not, but one thing was that her looks be right around the 7 range on the classic 1-10 scale. I think this is ideal too. You want to be attracted to her, but at much above a 7 it becomes very hard to keep her hypergamy in line.
100%
 

Papist

Robin
The problem seems to be that if she's really attractive, she's more likely to have had a lot more partners than the norm, unless she's relatively chaste. Plus, even if she has a low notch count, there's an increased possibility that she'll branch swing during marriage if she doesn't keep herself in check.

I think it's important to marry a moderately attractive woman - not ugly, but also not model-tier looks. Having said that, I've found that plain-looking women can have a lot more femininity, aliveness, and allure than much better looking women. Heck, I've even met women many would agree are "ugly" that have an incredible raw sexual attractiveness, despite not being aesthetically pleasing.

Ultimately, character is the overriding factor - hypergamy can be unchecked in both the ugly and the beautiful.

I would agree with this to an extent. Whilst I wouldn't say I have found ugly women sexually desirable, the sexiest women I have encountered would definitely be deemed average (4-6) by most guys. I've never been quite sure why that is, and have often thought it might be because they have had to cultivate their femininity, or something. Counterintuitively, I also have found some of them play hard to get a bit more than more attractive girls I have got with, something I have attributed to them having been used by guys in the past, regardless it's something I like and have always appreciated.
 
Godly character crosses both pretty and ugly. And there existed pretty women who were Godly also: Sarah, Rebekah, Abigail and Ruth.

Therefore this statement is false.
Last time I checked they didn't have access to facebook, instagram, onlyfans, snapchat, twitter and whatsapp. Also the repercussions on adultery were much more strict than they are today. If a woman was caught cheating way back it would be the end of her, literally. If not that, then her family's name would be tarnished and dragged through the mud and the community would scould them every chance they got. Social suicide.

I know where you are going with your statement and I whole heartily agree with it. You can marry a beautiful woman but that's in the eye of the beholder as well and is subjective. If you are worried about your woman attracting attention from other men it comes down to her, you can't control anyone 100% what you can control is how you react and what to do.

I know plenty of women who are good looking, some are what you expect of a modern good looking woman (social media posts etc) the others are down to earth, family oriented etc. A little bit of luck goes a long way sometimes.
 

Waverer

Robin
Could be wife googles, but my wife is pushing 40 now and I still find her attractive. And of course even if a wife isn't very attractive anymore there are still legions of guys with no standards who will hit it with anything. I've been aware of several torrid affairs where both the man and the woman got hit pretty hard with the ugly stick years before, but it still didn't keep them from committing adultery.

Completely agree with that. It's more the weird tendency to assume that a hottie aged x won't age I am arguing against.
 
Last time I checked they didn't have access to facebook, instagram, onlyfans, snapchat, twitter and whatsapp. Also the repercussions on adultery were much more strict than they are today. If a woman was caught cheating way back it would be the end of her, literally. If not that, then her family's name would be tarnished and dragged through the mud and the community would scould them every chance they got. Social suicide.

I know where you are going with your statement and I whole heartily agree with it. You can marry a beautiful woman but that's in the eye of the beholder as well and is subjective. If you are worried about your woman attracting attention from other men it comes down to her, you can't control anyone 100% what you can control is how you react and what to do.

I know plenty of women who are good looking, some are what you expect of a modern good looking woman (social media posts etc) the others are down to earth, family oriented etc. A little bit of luck goes a long way sometimes.
I have to disagree. Beauty isn't in the beholder:


Symmetry is a sign that as the person is developing he/she has a strong and healthy enough body to resist alteration:
One explanation for the preference for symmetrical faces comes from a postulated link to an evolutionary adaptation to identify high-quality mates (see Thornhill & Gangestad (1999) for review). Symmetry in human faces has been linked to potential heritable fitness (‘goodgenes’) because symmetry is a useful measure of the ability of an organism to cope with developmental stress (both genetic and environmental).

As the optimal developmental outcome of most characters is symmetry, deviation from perfect symmetry can be considered a reflection of challenges to development. Only high-quality individuals can maintain symmetrical development under environmental and genetic stress and therefore symmetry can serve as an indicator of phenotypic quality as well as genotypic quality (e.g. the ability to resist disease: see Møller (1997) and Møller & Thornhill (1998) for reviews).

This logic would lead to a preference for high symmetry mates as evolution will have favoured individuals who had preferences for high-quality mates over low-quality mates. Indeed, morphological symmetry appears to be related to reproductive success in many species, including humans (Gangestad & Thornhill 1997a; Møller & Thornhill 1998). For example, more symmetrical human males have more sexual partners than less symmetrical men (Thornhill & Gangestad 1994) and symmetrical males are also more likely to be chosen as extra-pair partners (Gangestad & Thornhill 1997b). Thus the link between symmetry and attractiveness may reflect that preferences for symmetrical individuals may be potentially adaptive.

Likewise symmetry is linked to how feminine looking a woman is:

Indicating a link between a measure of genetic health and how good looking that person is. Who probably has low mutation load:


Likewise the meme that "Beauty is subjective and in the eye of the beholder" is why there is an excuse for architects to ruin the landscape with eyesores. And make depressing buildings.
 
Last time I checked they didn't have access to facebook, instagram, onlyfans, snapchat, twitter and whatsapp. Also the repercussions on adultery were much more strict than they are today. If a woman was caught cheating way back it would be the end of her, literally. If not that, then her family's name would be tarnished and dragged through the mud and the community would scould them every chance they got. Social suicide.

I know where you are going with your statement and I whole heartily agree with it. You can marry a beautiful woman but that's in the eye of the beholder as well and is subjective. If you are worried about your woman attracting attention from other men it comes down to her, you can't control anyone 100% what you can control is how you react and what to do.

I know plenty of women who are good looking, some are what you expect of a modern good looking woman (social media posts etc) the others are down to earth, family oriented etc. A little bit of luck goes a long way sometimes.
Some really good points you've made there.

A lot of problems that men have in dating and relationships arises from the asymmetric value of men and women in the dating marketing. A generation of men who have never been thirstier, coupled with a technologically-enhanced generation of women who have almost endless choice of men, does not make it easy for guys in 2021 and beyond.

Given that women's hypergamy is out of control because of unprecedented changes in the structure of society, I think men really need to develop a willingness to walk away and do whatever they can to maximise their options. Having a strong dating skillset is super important to tame the hypergamous instincts of women. I think one reason the SJW crowd froth at the mouth about effective male dating advice is that it DOES empower men - it helps limit the action of hypergamy, and finally gives men some leverage in a severely imbalanced society.

One thing that's becoming more and more apparent by the day to me is that you need to be willing to walk away. No matter how hot she is, if she does something completely out of line, like cheating on you, be prepared to walk without a second thought. It might hurt. It might sting. But what's worse is letting your integrity and ethical standards disintegrate as she gains the upper hand in your relationship. Your spiritual health and peace of mind matters more.

Also, we're starting to see that even really ugly women are getting insane attention. And if they are, it's hard to conceive of what sort of male thirst a legitimately hot girl experiences. So even if you marry a landwhale, there's every chance her inbox will explode if she goes on Tinder.

I guess the solution boils down to some form of 'game' (and I use that word loosely), but without the endless hedonism. The aim isn't to have a huge string of partners - it's to go through whatever you have to do so you can find that one woman who ticks all the boxes. Maybe you'll strike gold get it right the first time. Or maybe it'll take a few attempts.

You have to radiate to all women a sense of "I can replace you with someone better if you mess this up. And even if I couldn't, my integrity is worth more than anything else in the world."
 
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Two options basically exist, 1 (the most likely) is that you simply get the **** you money you need and simply migrate to where your wanted. Option number 2 (don't hold your breath) is that men copy women and embrace "masculinism" who just like it's female counterpart has one aim, beat the other gender into submission...as I said before don't hold your breath.

Option number 2 requires some really charismatic leaders to get all the frikking betas to see the light and basically unionize. If option number 2 ever comes to pass however...get your camera ready and record the results for posterity. If the pendulum swings the other way it will swing hard.
 

Max Roscoe

Kingfisher
Two of the main reasons I would not want a partner with maximum beauty (nor would I want to be the most handsome man on earth) are: Vanity will cause problems in your 30s and beyond as you begin to age, and the things a "10" woman knows and the way she treats other people are disgusting to me.

Yeah, of course, if we are going all "Weird Science" and creating our ideal female in a lab, we would max out her beauty and make her voice very very quiet. But that's not realistic.

That said, upon first glance, my instinct guides me towards attractive women (I will honestly notice a 6-8 before a 10), though her looks are not the top qualities I judge her by and if we are ranking women from 1 to 10 there are far more important categories to judge them by than the symmetry of her face.
 
Two of the main reasons I would not want a partner with maximum beauty (nor would I want to be the most handsome man on earth) are: Vanity will cause problems in your 30s and beyond as you begin to age, and the things a "10" woman knows and the way she treats other people are disgusting to me.

Yeah, of course, if we are going all "Weird Science" and creating our ideal female in a lab, we would max out her beauty and make her voice very very quiet. But that's not realistic.

That said, upon first glance, my instinct guides me towards attractive women (I will honestly notice a 6-8 before a 10), though her looks are not the top qualities I judge her by and if we are ranking women from 1 to 10 there are far more important categories to judge them by than the symmetry of her face.

Agreed. But as I was saying prettiness has basis in objective reality and isn't just an illusion by the senses. Character matters especially.

And if an extremely rare woman of good character is also a 10 then one might as well go for it. But I know that is very unlikely. No one should count such a possibility out if it did end up existing.
 

Papist

Robin
Some really good points you've made there.

A lot of problems that men have in dating and relationships arises from the asymmetric value of men and women in the dating marketing. A generation of men who have never been thirstier, coupled with a technologically-enhanced generation of women who have almost endless choice of men, does not make it easy for guys in 2021 and beyond.

Given that women's hypergamy is out of control because of unprecedented changes in the structure of society, I think men really need to develop a willingness to walk away and do whatever they can to maximise their options. Having a strong dating skillset is super important to tame the hypergamous instincts of women. I think one reason the SJW crowd froth at the mouth about effective male dating advice is that it DOES empower men - it helps limit the action of hypergamy, and finally gives men some leverage in a severely imbalanced society.

One thing that's becoming more and more apparent by the day to me is that you need to be willing to walk away. No matter how hot she is, if she does something completely out of line, like cheating on you, be prepared to walk without a second thought. It might hurt. It might sting. But what's worse is letting your integrity and ethical standards disintegrate as she gains the upper hand in your relationship. Your spiritual health and peace of mind matters more.

Also, we're starting to see that even really ugly women are getting insane attention. And if they are, it's hard to conceive of what sort of male thirst a legitimately hot girl experiences. So even if you marry a landwhale, there's every chance her inbox will explode if she goes on Tinder.

I guess the solution boils down to some form of 'game' (and I use that word loosely), but without the endless hedonism. The aim isn't to have a huge string of partners - it's to go through whatever you have to do so you can find that one woman who ticks all the boxes. Maybe you'll strike gold get it right the first time. Or maybe it'll take a few attempts.

You have to radiate to all women a sense of "I can replace you with someone better if you mess this up. And even if I couldn't, my integrity is worth more than anything else in the world."

I worked with a girl I would have said was at most a 4/10 in terms of her facial attractiveness. Now I have a proclivity for plump (or Rubenesque) women, and she would have been towards my upper limit. She had enormous breasts and was well proportioned, but I think a lot of men might have considered her to be a bit fat. I would have scored her a 5.5/10 overall.

One Monday morning she came into work and told me she had joined Tinder the previous day and that over one hundred guys had liked her profile. To be fair to her she wasn't in the least bit promiscuous, despite liking a drink, and was actually considered a bit 'frigid' by desperate beta colleagues who'd taken her out. However, that day I had the same realisation as Integrated, whose post I have quoted above - that even very average women can literally find a hundred guys in twenty-four hours. That's bound to inflate their egos.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
Two of the main reasons I would not want a partner with maximum beauty (nor would I want to be the most handsome man on earth) are: Vanity will cause problems in your 30s and beyond as you begin to age, and the things a "10" woman knows and the way she treats other people are disgusting to me.

Yeah, of course, if we are going all "Weird Science" and creating our ideal female in a lab, we would max out her beauty and make her voice very very quiet. But that's not realistic.

That said, upon first glance, my instinct guides me towards attractive women (I will honestly notice a 6-8 before a 10), though her looks are not the top qualities I judge her by and if we are ranking women from 1 to 10 there are far more important categories to judge them by than the symmetry of her face.
This is so true. As I age especially, hot women are almost equally as repugnant, paradoxically, since you look at them and say to yourself: "Oh man, I wouldn't want to deal with that ... " especially in the West.

Attention ruins everything. It is female porn. The only check to that is a father who instills in his daughter faith and values. For this reason, to me, youth started to become "hot" as I got older. I think that is equally as biological as it is practical.
 
I think it's about a balance between looks and personality.

You want someone who is attractive to you but not a model esque 10/10 as the majority of those type of women are already in relationships.

So if one can find a woman who is slightly better looking than average (a 6/10 or a 7/10) and has good values and a good relationship with her family (her father in particular) then she would be considered a worthy prospect.

The problem is that even women who are less than average attractiveness (a 4/10) have their attitudes so gassed up from all the social media and real life attention that they are unpleasant to talk to.

They know men have never been so thirsty in any other era and so they take undue advantage of the situation.
 
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