“If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife”

StardustRevenant

Pigeon
Other Christian
I disagree with this blackpill premise. I always believe that good looking women make for better marriages. Anecdotally I know this good looking Australian guy. A 7/10 lookswise, who would be an 8.5/10, if he lost weight and shaved his beard. He decided to date and marry a plain jane, overweight Asian girl. He had two children with her and got divorced. It costed him thousands and made him depressed for a while. But now he has a younger, significantly more attractive girlfriend from Russia and seems to be a happier and more confident man. Being in a relationship with a physically attractive, loving woman can be a game changer.
 

bubs

Robin
Protestant
Yeah it’s not beauty, it’s crazy you need to watch out for when choosing a wife. With that said, if you are a low ranked male and somehow won over a hot traditional girl to be your wife, sure there will be heightened risks over the course of a marriage of her either slipping into infidelity or leaving you at some point, but that is just common sense. Enjoy the ride, do the best you can to keep her happy and hope for “til death do us part” but don’t be shocked and butt hurt if she strays or leaves.
 

Arcite

Sparrow
This thread makes me think of this one girl from my social circle 10-12 years ago; I hate to use a disparaging term, but a true "butterface." I was in my thirties and she was in her twenties. I met her (as well as our mutual friends) at a church young adults gathering; she was a Christian. She was really down-to-earth, laughed at my jokes, we got along great, had similar interests, I knew she liked me--I could just tell we would have had a great time together. And you know how some girls just somehow exude a certain sensuousness? I don't know whether it's pheromones or what, but there's just something about her skin tone, the consistency of her flesh, that seems sexy. And I saw her in a two-piece bathing suit several times so I knew she had a nice body. I guarantee the sex would have been great. The only thing wrong was... she did not have a pretty face. But even so, after getting to know her and like her as a person (and be attracted to the rest of her,) I even thought she was cute in a way when she smiled.

I still think of her from time to time and wonder whether I should have just gone for it. From where I sit now, age 45 and still alone, it seems like that would have been better than risking growing old and dying alone. If I'd gone with her, we'd have had a great newlywed phase, and would currently have a great marriage and family life. All I would have had to do was decide to be content never to be with a girl with a pretty face again.
 

Mountaineer

 
Banned
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
It's hard for me to quantify these things, but... face was maybe a 3 on a bad day, 4 on a good day? I definitely thought "that girl's ugly" the first time I ever saw her; it took a while of being around her and getting to know her to find her attractive.
If you saw her as attractive you should've sealed the deal. Always choose a girl that likes you.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
This thread makes me think of this one girl from my social circle 10-12 years ago; I hate to use a disparaging term, but a true "butterface." I was in my thirties and she was in her twenties. I met her (as well as our mutual friends) at a church young adults gathering; she was a Christian. She was really down-to-earth, laughed at my jokes, we got along great, had similar interests, I knew she liked me--I could just tell we would have had a great time together. And you know how some girls just somehow exude a certain sensuousness? I don't know whether it's pheromones or what, but there's just something about her skin tone, the consistency of her flesh, that seems sexy. And I saw her in a two-piece bathing suit several times so I knew she had a nice body. I guarantee the sex would have been great. The only thing wrong was... she did not have a pretty face. But even so, after getting to know her and like her as a person (and be attracted to the rest of her,) I even thought she was cute in a way when she smiled.

I still think of her from time to time and wonder whether I should have just gone for it. From where I sit now, age 45 and still alone, it seems like that would have been better than risking growing old and dying alone. If I'd gone with her, we'd have had a great newlywed phase, and would currently have a great marriage and family life. All I would have had to do was decide to be content never to be with a girl with a pretty face again.
Past is past broseph, don't linger on it too much. Things that happen and seem to be a missed opportunity often are the setup for a next, better opportunity, giving you exactly what you need. So learn from this: identify your standards as a man and in what situation a woman, characteristics both personal and physical and environmental, would qualify being yours. If you've set up these boundaries clearly you can vet a woman on it. Seems that you're a bit in the middle now, now knowing exactly what you want, so you'll have a lot of doubt as a result. Choices made in advance make it easier later in the process, the more you sweat during peace the less blood you'll shed during war :).
 

SensibleUlan

Pigeon
Trad Catholic
It's hard for me to quantify these things, but... face was maybe a 3 on a bad day, 4 on a good day? I definitely thought "that girl's ugly" the first time I ever saw her; it took a while of being around her and getting to know her to find her attractive.
It's weird but I was thinking last night about the past 'near-misses' I had during my focused dating phase several years ago and at the time when the dates didn't work out there was one of them I really regretted not hitting the mark with.

Yet looking back I saw I dodged a bullet big-time due to her whorish tendencies and possible crypto-wickedness. At one crucial part of the second date she gave me like this 'longing smile' of wanting me as we sat at the table. I was almost won-over and thought 'This is the one surely'?. Yet when I told her loyalty and faithfulness were iron-clad parts and required for any partner of mine she went ICE COLD. So that ended there and then, for reasons I learned later she was a complete 'pan-sexual' or swinger-type.
 

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
It's weird but I was thinking last night about the past 'near-misses' I had during my focused dating phase several years ago and at the time when the dates didn't work out there was one of them I really regretted not hitting the mark with.

Yet looking back I saw I dodged a bullet big-time due to her whorish tendencies and possible crypto-wickedness. At one crucial part of the second date she gave me like this 'longing smile' of wanting me as we sat at the table. I was almost won-over and thought 'This is the one surely'?. Yet when I told her loyalty and faithfulness were iron-clad parts and required for any partner of mine she went ICE COLD. So that ended there and then, for reasons I learned later she was a complete 'pan-sexual' or swinger-type.
A good woman would definitely think these two things are positive and agree with you. You did the smart thing discussing this early on.
 

earam8778

 
Banned
Catholic
I disagree with this blackpill premise. I always believe that good looking women make for better marriages. Anecdotally I know this good looking Australian guy. A 7/10 lookswise, who would be an 8.5/10, if he lost weight and shaved his beard. He decided to date and marry a plain jane, overweight Asian girl. He had two children with her and got divorced. It costed him thousands and made him depressed for a while. But now he has a younger, significantly more attractive girlfriend from Russia and seems to be a happier and more confident man. Being in a relationship with a physically attractive, loving woman can be a game changer.
I don't see the correlation here. Mixed raced marriages don't work so that could have been part of the problem as well. Women shouldn't give men confidence, women should give men stability in the home. The problem with dating attractive women in the secular sense is that it strokes the ego. I know a lot of men that feel like they've accomplished something when their dating a women who is "hot", especially when other men see her as wanted commodity. And I use the word commodity because thats how they view women as, objects. Yes as men we like things that are pretty to the eye, but I much rather date a 6 (I know i'm such a hypocrite i'm rating women like a product) whose a christian and somewhat skinny, rather than a secular 7- 9.
Dating a secular women who most men see as attractive is a headache.
 

TheosisSeeker

Sparrow
Orthodox Catechumen
If you saw her as attractive you should've sealed the deal. Always choose a girl that likes you.

So this goes out to all the men here in the subduing their passions and getting closer to God phase...in my younger years, yes I would agree with you. But now? If we are on the path we should not be pursuing sealing the deal and would get her number and court her instead. I know women who I can fornicate with, but would have no intention to marry them. Again I find this state to be impractical because a lack of a sex life leads to less confidence, but I may have not have subdued my passions enough.
 

prairiesurfer

Chicken
Orthodox
I once worked with a mexican gentleman in his late 30's. He was good looking, a hard working and funny guy whose command of the english language was so-so. He repeatedly told me that his wife was not that much to look at (again, he was a pretty good looking guy), but that she treated him as king. That was good enough for him. I guess I got lucky, married to a good looking gal who has treated me as (almost) king for 43 years now.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
I once worked with a mexican gentleman in his late 30's. He was good looking, a hard working and funny guy whose command of the english language was so-so. He repeatedly told me that his wife was not that much to look at (again, he was a pretty good looking guy), but that she treated him as king. That was good enough for him. I guess I got lucky, married to a good looking gal who has treated me as (almost) king for 43 years now.
And you know what the funny thing is? Women need a king to look up to. They need a man to look up to, a superior not her equal. They crave it. They long for it with all their heart and soul, with every fiber in her body and with every emotion she has. If otherwise, she can never feel truly at ease and truly feminine, as that requires trust to give control out of hands to the man. Satan has sadly vilified this Godly hierarchical dynamic in which both the man and woman thrive, feel natural and in their power, meaning and satisfaction (I don't like the modernist word and use of happiness), but 9 out of 10 women will look for this and will usually be utterly open about it when you'd ask them for their ideal man. The social conditioning doesn't erode that underlying foundational structure, but it does put a lot of strain on it in which due to the life experiences, life situation and indoctrination in modern society it is very hard for a woman to submit to a man. And to keep it a stack, I get it logically too from some point: you cannot count on a relationship to have the length that you want it to have, you don't have that certainty as in the past (even though 80% of relationships/divorces are initiated by women who usually jump up to a ''better'' man socio-economically). But the me2 stuff and whole toxic masculinity anti masculinity narrative that's being pushed so ferociously by the global regime does create a lot of increased tension, to the point in which I doubt that besides a religious marriage with both parties virgin and a strong theological/social/community component to it any functioning relationship will be possible in the near future, let alone marriage.
 

paternos

Robin
Catholic
And you know what the funny thing is? Women need a king to look up to. They need a man to look up to, a superior not her equal. They crave it. They long for it with all their heart and soul, with every fiber in her body and with every emotion she has. If otherwise, she can never feel truly at ease and truly feminine, as that requires trust to give control out of hands to the man. Satan has sadly vilified this Godly hierarchical dynamic in which both the man and woman thrive, feel natural and in their power, meaning and satisfaction (I don't like the modernist word and use of happiness), but 9 out of 10 women will look for this and will usually be utterly open about it when you'd ask them for their ideal man. The social conditioning doesn't erode that underlying foundational structure, but it does put a lot of strain on it in which due to the life experiences, life situation and indoctrination in modern society it is very hard for a woman to submit to a man. And to keep it a stack, I get it logically too from some point: you cannot count on a relationship to have the length that you want it to have, you don't have that certainty as in the past (even though 80% of relationships/divorces are initiated by women who usually jump up to a ''better'' man socio-economically). But the me2 stuff and whole toxic masculinity anti masculinity narrative that's being pushed so ferociously by the global regime does create a lot of increased tension, to the point in which I doubt that besides a religious marriage with both parties virgin and a strong theological/social/community component to it any functioning relationship will be possible in the near future, let alone marriage.
I looked into this in a biblical sense. Some texts that I find helpful below.

I think it is worth to define that look up to means. What do we mean?

In the modernist sense, men have created images of what they should be, always strong, fit, young, bursting with energy, rich, popular etc etc. The bible says nothing about this. (so I think that would be a mistake)

What it says though: "the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband"

And that gives clarity, how does Christ guide us? Christ guides me in wisdom and gives me a shoulder when a need it and a correction when I need it. I need to actively work on my faith to search for it. Faith is an action.

I think it says, that when we men are good christians and relate well to God, we give our women a good example. Why should they listen to us, if we don't listen to God. This is a spiritual connection between man and woman in which we can help them with our wisdom received.

This also means that what I see in many modern relations that the man is caddy or a shopping list for the wive is not right. If we beg to god for a lot of money, the wive will do that of us.

So it's all up to us, how we relate to Christ, is how our wives will relate to us. So we need to get that relation in order above all things. If we ask god for wisdom or his opinion, or wives will ask the same of us, if we ask for forgiveness to Christ, our wives will do the same to us, if we can share our pain with Christ, our wives can do the same with us.

But if we ask christ to be always strong, fit, young, bursting with energy, rich and popular, our wives will demand that from us.

For me a very personal topic, as it is so hard to relate in good way. But I believe it all comes down to our relation to Christ.

And to be honest this what I wrote down here, is all I could ever desire my wife.
So it's all up to us, how we relate to Christ, is how our wives will relate to us. So we need to get that relation in order above all things. If we ask god for wisdom or his opinion, or wives will ask the same of us, if we ask for forgiveness to Christ, our wives will do the same to us, if we can share our pain with Christ, our wives can do the same with us.


Corinthians 11:3​

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

Ephesians 5:22-33​

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, ...

Timothy 2:11-15​

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.

Corinthians 11:9​

Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

Proverbs 12:4​

An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones.
 
Last edited:

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
I looked into this in a biblical sense. Some texts that I find helpful below.

I think it is worth to define that look up to means. What do we mean?

In the modernist sense, men have created images of what they should be, always strong, fit, young, bursting with energy, rich, popular etc etc. The bible says nothing about this. (so I think that would be a mistake)

What it says though: "the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband"

And that gives clarity, how does Christ guide us? Christ guides me in wisdom and gives me a shoulder when a need it and a correction when I need it. I need to actively work on my faith to search for it. Faith is an action.

I think it says, that when we men are good christians and relate well to God, we give our women a good example. Why should they listen to us, if we don't listen to God. This is a spiritual connection between man and woman in which we can help them with our wisdom received.

This also means that what I see in many modern relations that the man is caddy or a shopping list for the wive is not right. If we beg to god for a lot of money, the wive will do that of us.

So it's all up to us, how we relate to Christ, is how our wives will relate to us. So we need to get that relation in order above all things. If we ask god for wisdom or his opinion, or wives will ask the same of us, if we ask for forgiveness to Christ, our wives will do the same to us, if we can share our pain with Christ, our wives can do the same with us.

But if we ask christ to be always strong, fit, young, bursting with energy, rich and popular, our wives will demand that from us.

For me a very personal topic, as it is so hard to relate in good way. But I believe it all comes down to our relation to Christ.

And to be honest this what I wrote down here, is all I could ever desire my wife.
Excellent and as I outlined this position in the hierarchy God - men - women is actually what women are actively looking for, albeit the God part as highest layer has been removed in modern society. But that the core of this reality remains even in this society is practical proof of the validity of these Bible passages.
 

scarfaceantonio

Robin
Other Christian
I also would agree.... Viktor gave us impressive (yet clear and natural) insights about the man-women dynamic. This is all natural / common sense knowledge, which natural people (subconscioslyl) apply. Yet, living natural (as a natural man) is not satisfying (to me), it has huge flaws also .... and this way of living will reach his limits, soon.... or as we could see in the past.

Im great that you closed the "circle" with good way out! I like to describe this as going "SUPERnatural", submitting your Biology to your Theology! Not just using the carnal mind- but using mind, heart and strength.... so we can be able to stand! Yes, women will indeed crave a man who makes her FEEL as hes the king.... but where this is feeling comes from and if its valid doesn't matter- thats foolish. We must be grounded / tuned in GODs spirit.... to walk in wisdom, strength, love - with awareness, knowing what we do....

This whole situation makes me think we have to seek GOD like never before.
 

square_it

Chicken
Protestant
An unattractive woman may be more likely to feel lucky to marry a high status good looking guy. I've seen cases of this when the man's good looks was the main thing holding a marriage together. Yet there are also many unattractive women who feel victimized for being not attractive. So even when they land a better looking guy, their insecurities come out and the relationship is not great. Personally I'd edge toward an attractive woman, but there are so many other factors that I prioritize when choosing a potential partner.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
I also would agree.... Viktor gave us impressive (yet clear and natural) insights about the man-women dynamic. This is all natural / common sense knowledge, which natural people (subconscioslyl) apply. Yet, living natural (as a natural man) is not satisfying (to me), it has huge flaws also .... and this way of living will reach his limits, soon.... or as we could see in the past.

Im great that you closed the "circle" with good way out! I like to describe this as going "SUPERnatural", submitting your Biology to your Theology! Not just using the carnal mind- but using mind, heart and strength.... so we can be able to stand! Yes, women will indeed crave a man who makes her FEEL as hes the king.... but where this is feeling comes from and if its valid doesn't matter- thats foolish. We must be grounded / tuned in GODs spirit.... to walk in wisdom, strength, love - with awareness, knowing what we do....

This whole situation makes me think we have to seek GOD like never before.
The burden of performance will always be on men. So the position as has of the household has to be earned, like anything in life. If you're weak and incapable of leading and making sound decisions, the sailors on your ship can't trust you as captain. The rot is that men nowadays aren't taught at all how to be masculine, virtuous, courageous, stoic, balanced, accountable, problem solving and responsible men with an ironclad frame to keep those within his castle walls in line - for the benefit of those. In fact, the opposite, we're being and have been stripped of all these virtues for decades.

With regard to the beautiful woman yes or no thing, true we're dealing with hypergamy so the woman always has that itch whether she's with the best man possible and wants to ideally marry/relate at least 1 or 2 points on the proverbial relationship/sexual marketplace on a scale to 10. So if you have a beautiful and feminine (obviously vet intensely besides looks for red flags) woman, you better be a masculine man that offers his value and is useful. Then, within boundaries of marriage, a healthy relationship and a healthy religious traditional environment, there shouldn't be an issue as the deal is sealed for life and from there it's just the performance on you to keep delivering. Women kids and pets are loved unconditionally, but we as men have to work and keep being of practical use to remain valued. The problem obviously is that in modern society especially a secular woman will constantly look for the bigger better deal as her hyoergamy is on steroids, attention is everywhere and she's never satisfied. With that I say good luck, if not for the lifestyle and belief system issues it'd be very common for a guy to plough like a horse for a decade, then to have a setback and see this beautiful woman monkeybranch into the next option, leaving him devastated without remorse. I wouldn't advice anyone to get in a possible trainwreck like that.
 
Top