“You don’t have to pay for a wife and kids, so you have money in the bank.”

[SteveMcMahon]

LOL Steve, f'ing great post, love the illustrations -- though I always think of Cary Grant rather than Jimmy Stewart for the paterfamilias pics.

Thanks! Cary Grant's a bit of a hero of mine. The guy was so sharp you could get papercuts watching his films. He made handsome look effortless, even when he was being chased by a plane. He's still giving girls gina tingles from beyond the grave.

Cary's friends heard he wanted to get married.

 

[Barry Scrotada]

Watching the Series and wondering what Marlins Guy's story is, I most definitely did not expect to find my answer on an anti marriage discussion on the RVF.

 

[BootNootly]

There is likely some of the effect that you mention -- that the very act of marrying and having a family changes the way a man acts and the choices he makes in a way that tends to raise his income. We have all seen examples of it, so no doubt that is also true. But if I had to guess -- and it's just a guess -- I'd say that this effect of direct causation is perhaps less important than the "common causation" effect I described in the previous paragraph. But I don't really know.

Talk to some of the Old Economy Steve types who got married during or right out of college. They'll say things about their wife like "She changed my life," "She got me on track," "She shaped me up."

A lot of that has to do with the man marrying before age 25. If you've seen recent research on neuroplasticity, it turns out that people tend to become more set in their ways in their mid-20s.

Marriage is more likely to transform a guy from a sorta slacker into a provider beta if it happens at age 22-25 than if it happens at 30.

That's why the tradcons are so big on "young marriage." There's a window to get you onto the treadmill.

 

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

What if your wife is just as anti-materialistic as you, and you save even more money living together than if you would alone?

I acknowledge that it is a very rare thing to find in a woman (or anyone, for that matter), but it's certainly possible to run a family without waste.

 

[StrikeBack]

My favourite answer to the married men making more money BS: "It's not how much money you make, it's how much money you get to keep."

You're telling me a man with a traditional wife or girlfriend, who has all of his meals cooked for him, his household chores taken care of, and his sexual urges dutifully attended to isn't going to be more productive and efficient with his time than the average player/bachelor?

Productive and efficient with his time for whom?

I'm more productive for my own needs than any married man with an awesome traditional wife. It's because that married man puts his wife and kids first, while I put myself first. You think your married man has time to learn a couple of languages on the side, or lift weights / play sports 7 days a week? I doubt it.

It takes more than one traditional woman to make that a valuable arrangement for a man. It takes the whole society to value the family man aka patriarch, to make the sacrifice of his freedom worthwhile.

Talk to some of the Old Economy Steve types who got married during or right out of college. They'll say things about their wife like "She changed my life," "She got me on track," "She shaped me up."

A lot of that has to do with the man marrying before age 25. If you've seen recent research on neuroplasticity, it turns out that people tend to become more set in their ways in their mid-20s.

Marriage is more likely to transform a guy from a sorta slacker into a provider beta if it happens at age 22-25 than if it happens at 30.

That's why the tradcons are so big on "young marriage." There's a window to get you onto the treadmill.

This is very true. In my early 20s, I'd definitely appreciate things like home cooked meals, household chores being taken care of and regular sex with the same woman way more than I do now. As I now have cooking & chores down pat and have more options for sex now than I did in my early 20s, I simply don't value what a traditional woman brings to the table all that much.

Guess what, neither do any of you RVF bachelors. If you did, you'd be on a plane to some traditional countries, find a girl and marry her. You know where to find them, you have the datasheets, you know they're way better wives than Western women. Yet none of you is actively looking for marriage. Priorities

 

[supadoopa_paratroopa]

The old "marriage makes a man healthier and wealthier" canard.

Never confuse cause and effect. Women aren't lining up to marry thugs, drug dealers, HIV infected gay men, gang-bangers, and the morbidly obese... Men die younger from violence, accidents and therefore never marry. They also don't live long enough to go up the ladder and make more $$$.

Everyone here knows women are shrewd when it comes to siphoning off money and status from men. They may sleep with and have children with bad men, have bastard spawn with them, but marry? Nope.

The stats are skewed because women are cut-throat when it comes to the wedding ring. An intelligent man with ambition and a good career will be able to do what he wants later in life if he doesn't succumb to the constant browbeating by relatives and female acquaintance make an "honest" woman out of one of his girls.

Unless you're a religious type, or really want kids - don't do it. The lies that it will complete you are intentional. A single man with money and no woman to spend it is a sin against society, don't ya know?

 

[Enigma]

Productive and efficient with his time for whom?

I'm more productive for my own needs than any married man with an awesome traditional wife. It's because that married man puts his wife and kids first, while I put myself first. You think your married man has time to learn a couple of languages on the side, or lift weights / play sports 7 days a week? I doubt it.

Why would being married not allow you a couple hours a day to lift weights and study languages?

It's because you're again bringing children into the equation, which I have already addressed.

It's like saying, "I don't have as much free time since I bought a dog". Yeah, you also have a dog, which is a very fulfilling experience worth the extra expense and time commitment for SOME people.

Whether or not to carry on your legacy, experience the joys of fatherhood, etc. shouldn't be a question of money and free time.

And this is coming from someone in his mid-20s who's deadly afraid of getting a girl pregnant. That doesn't mean I view it as some waste of time and money for the guy who really wants to do it.

It takes more than one traditional woman to make that a valuable arrangement for a man. It takes the whole society to value the family man aka patriarch, to make the sacrifice of his freedom worthwhile.

Yes, which is why I said I was specifically talking about non-Western cultures multiple times in my post. I understand that it takes up space to quote an entire post, but you're cherry picking specific points and ignoring the very relevant background I gave for them.

This is very true. In my early 20s, I'd definitely appreciate things like home cooked meals, household chores being taken care of and regular sex with the same woman way more than I do now. As I now have cooking & chores down pat and have more options for sex now than I did in my early 20s, I simply don't value what a traditional woman brings to the table all that much.

The question is not whether you value them. The question is whether a man who makes $50, $100, $500, $1000+ an hour, who's time is extremely valuable, could be doing something else with the hour he spends cooking, doing dishes and laundry, etc., even if it's just relaxing with a book and conserving mental energy or pursuing a hobby.

How much times does the average guy here spend daily on game, approaching, dates, etc.? I'd say AT LEAST 1 to 3 hours, if not more.

Guess what, neither do any of you RVF bachelors. If you did, you'd be on a plane to some traditional countries, find a girl and marry her. You know where to find them, you have the datasheets, you know they're way better wives than Western women. Yet none of you is actively looking for marriage. Priorities

Again, the question isn't whether we value and pursue marriage at this point of our lives, it's whether you save more money by not being married.

Kids, dogs, and sports cars cost money but if it's something you very much WANT, then the expense is worth it.

Going on multiple dates a day, spending money on drinks every night, going to coffee shops or malls constantly -- all of that costs money.

Learning game, approaching hundreds of women, following up on leads, going on dates, getting flaked on, posting up in cafes or clubs for hours on end -- all of that costs time.

If you'd like to run the numbers, I'm confident the results will be pretty conclusive in favor of marriage from a financial perspective.

But you WANT to do it, therefore the cost is justified and even welcome. That doesn't mean you're NOT spending time or money or that everyone has to agree with your interests.

It's been discussed here many times before that being a player is time consuming, expensive, and often lonely. But it's the life many of us chose and enjoy.

There are also guys here who prefer mini or long-term relationships or are actually married.