100 Hookers AMA

[MikeCF]

Let's say you're a millionaire, Fisto.

You lived in Vegas.

What do you think women are gonna try to do once they find what you're worth? They'll be scooping that baby batter right out of your condom.

There are lots of reasons to use escorts that have nothing to do with being a loser.

"I don't pay them for sex, I pay them to leave." Charlie Sheen - who could out pull any 5 of us combined - said that.

 

[Duke Castile]

Let's say you're a millionaire, Fisto.

You lived in Vegas.

What do you think women are gonna try to do once they find what you're worth? They'll be scooping that baby batter right out of your condom.

There are lots of reasons to use escorts that have nothing to do with being a loser.

"I don't pay them for sex, I pay them to leave." Charlie Sheen - who could out pull any 5 of us combined - said that.

I don't see hookers as having some integrity that would keep them from doing the same thing.

That's a separate issue really. Go flush your condom.

And I agree there are lots of reasons to fuck hookers.

But this guys reason is because he finds women here to much trouble (no social skills or game to fuck them) and travels over to other countries and pays for it (also cannot crack the code there).

We are talking about THIS guy's reasons.

Charlie can go fuck whom he wants, we are talking about this guy and his stated reasons.

OUR reasons for fucking women are that we want to because we enjoy sex with beautiful girls and ugly ones too.

There is a reason you haven't paid for sex before mike, on some level, I think you know it's the weak move.

 

[MikeCF]

There is a reason you haven't paid for sex before mike, on some level, I think you know it's the weak move.

That was my view.

Now...I'm not so sure.

 

[Duke Castile]

There is a reason you haven't paid for sex before mike, on some level, I think you know it's the weak move.

That was my view.

Now...I'm not so sure.

Alright, well that's fair.

But let me offer up something else.

Despite what he says, I think he's got serious flaws in his self confidence and social interactions with women.

And no amount of paying for sex will ever change that.

 

[DeusLuxMeaEst]

I'll jump into this thread.

I used to have adamant feelings against guys who p4p when I was younger, I'd think that only losers with low self esteem would pay for sex. I had the same thoughts about guys who married foreign women.

As I got older I changed my mind. On a certain level p4p can be seen as taking the easy way out. We're on this board and we improve ourselves. We improve our lifestyle, we learn new skills, we lift weights, and we become more attractive. We do most of this for girls, how much of this stuff would you guys do if it didn't improve our sexual value? Most guys definitely wouldn't work as hard. The time investment in all this stuff is huge.

I'm still relatively young so I have a lot of energy to do all these things. It also makes sense from a monetary point of view. I'm not making 300/hr to hand over to these chicks.

But if I do a thought experiment I wonder how long can I keep up this pace? 5 years? 10 years? Do I want to deal with the bullshit of a 23 year old girl when I'm 40 with no guarantee of banging her. Probably not.

I also probably have a lot more money when I'm in my 40s that the cash will be a nonissue.

There's a big difference between:

Guy A: Hopeless doesn't care about self improvement or becoming attractive. Takes the easy road and wants to bang hotties with no work. Does p4p.

Guy B: Put in many solid years in the game, and pretty much done it all. He's now in his mid 40s, and has money. Can't keep the pace anymore and he's tired of dealing with the bullshit in the game.

Now imagine you're guy B, you can bang a 9.5 for less than a Benjamin.

Would you?

The answer is easy for me.

 

[Duke Castile]

I would argue that a big part of fullfillment for any man IS the "trouble" you are going to. If you are working out for girls, eating healthy, improving yourself, you are wrong.

That should be done because you value yourself, not to look better in the eyes of women. If that's too much trouble then I'd say the other half of your life is going to be miserable.

I'm 35, when I'm in my 40s I plan on being better than I am now.

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

Seriously, why all this fuss? Who really gives a shit?

To each his own, I say. If you feel like paying for sex lowers your own personal opinion of yourself, don't do it. If it doesn't and you get what you want out of it, more power to you.

Fisto, you're describing your own personal feelings in regard to paying for sex. There is no such thing as something that is objectively shameful. It is as shameful as you yourself make it out to be.

I personally don't like paying for sex mainly because...

A.) For me it feels analogous to bribing an opposing sports team into letting you win. I enjoy the feeling of conquest and accomplishment that comes with sleeping with a new woman, knowing she's having sex with me because she wants to.

B.) Even with short-term flings...and occasionally even with one night stands, there's still a nice sense of mutual lust and affection that I enjoy.

C.) In the long run, assuming you get either a girlfriend or a fuckbuddy, it's actually much cheeper. Often, you can just go to her house, fuck, and hang out. If you both feel like it, you'll go out to dinner or see a movie, but since sex is already out of the way, it's more because you want to have fun, not because you hope doing so will get her into bed. With an escourt, you'd have to pay every time you pump, so to speak.

However, I would liken this to a man who can grow, prepare and cook his own food and a man who chooses to eat out. Of course, cooking your own meals is not only better, but healthier and more satisfying. It's a skill that you can be proud of. But am I going to look down on someone who chooses to go to a restaurant instead? Does paying someone to cook your meals for you imply that you're incapable of cooking yourself?

Just because I don't enjoy paying for sex doesn't mean it's my place to judge someone else. As Long as you're not harming others or screwing slaves, it's really a matter of how you feel about what you're doing. If your needs are sufficiently met by paying, then by all means, go ahead, and fuck what other people think.

 

[Duke Castile]

"you're just describing you're own feelings"

No shit?

I'm on a forum, in the GAME section, having to debate with guys on why paying for sex is bad for their inner game.

I am actually having an out of body experience because of it.

 

[shibby]

Men that are married or men with no game or no balls pay for sex.
Men with game do not.

I know successfull players who turned to P4P because they were fed up with all the bullshit.
The only reason why you would prefer to pay with your time/energy/game and look down on guys who pay with money is because your ego is tied up in it. "I am better than he is because he has to pay for it".

You're goddamn right.

Because one takes effort, work, and skill. The other takes money and your dignity.

Wow, I just read that whole guys thread. Took ages. He's certainly sure of himself.

I don't think there is an absolute answer here. Every person values different things differently. Like many things in this world, the value of game is subjective.

Fisto, you have obviously banged a lot of women and you have turned it into a craft and you have spent a lot of time improving and fine tuning this craft. It is a part of your lifestyle and it fulfills you and that's great. A lot of guys would envy your sex life. But I'm sure a large amount of guys probably just think, who cares? When you say you lose your dignity when paying for sex, I can't say I fully agree with that.

You dedicate a large amount of your time and money to women: working out, building social circles, learning game, going out to bars and talking to women, day gaming, setting up dates, pipelining. Probably the majority of your night from 7pm til 4am is focused on finding a woman to bang. Many would say that is too much time to dedicate to getting laid. 'Cost per bang' includes time as well as money.
But this is how you attract women. This is how you improve your game. Women want to sleep with you. You can now sleep with women at will for free and this is the lifestyle you want. I agree, this is a cool lifestyle. This applies to many of the guys here.

But perhaps that doesn't fulfill everyone. Perhaps other guys just don't think it is worth it to dedicate that much time to game. Do you think somone like Zuckerberg looks at you and thinks wow, I wish I had chased that lifestyle?
Zuckerberg probably spent most of his life 20 hours a day sitting in his dorm room writing code and jerking off to Bangbros twice a day. He's probably banged 2 girls in his life. He'd probably pee his pants at the thought of opening a hot girl. But he's worth $16 billion. He'd probably read this thread and think, what an idiot, this guy spends so much of his time trying to pickup women when you can just pay them a few pennies and sleep with them instantly. Without all the surfing OKCupid, getting their number, pretending to listen to them at the bar bullshit.

This guy could just buy an island, pay 100 foreign hookers to live on it with him and have his own private pussy carousel for the next 10 years. Does he give a shit if he's paying them? Do you think he feels like he's losing his dignity? Would he prefer to spend his time reading The Game, studying the game, practicing the game, working out at the gym, putting on nice clothes, making OKCupid and FilipinoCupid and ColombianCupid accounts and sending out mass messages, learning how to approach and number close, be cocky funny and neg and disarm LMR? And then travel to each country and go out and try and shore each of those 100 hookers instead? Do you think he'd enjoy that more? Do you think that would make him feel like he's preserved his dignity? Why would he do that when he can just click his fingers and have these girls in front of him for a price he can afford? You look at someone who resorts to P4P and you scoff, but they probably look at someone who takes the time and effort to seduce women and scoff all the same. To them, the result is the same. You both bang the girls you want.

He and the guy in that post obviously don't value "woman sleeping with them just because they want to" as much as you or I do. He probably would never have been able to achieve what he has achieved if he had gone chasing women for 2 months in DR, 3 months in Europe, 3 months in SEA, an hour every day reading RVF, an hour walking around the mall day gaming etc etc. As well all know, learning to pickup women is not easy and like anything worthwhile it takes time, money, effort and practice. People simply choose to dedicate their time to other things, and just because they don't dedicate it to picking up women does not make them any better or worse than you or I.

Tiger Woods - another prime example. No time to game women, just pay them for the sex and work on becoming the world's greatest golfer. Should never have got married, though.

This guy in the MMA thread obviously dedicates his time to other things, he never invented no Facebook, but he has obviously decided what is important to him and learning to pickup women is not one of them. When he wants sex he pays for it and if that is what makes him happy and allows him to dedicate his life to his passions then I don't see the problem in that. Whether or not the things he does with his time have more or less value than picking up women is not for us to decide. And it shouldn't matter to anyone but him.

In my opinion your inner game only suffers if paying is your only choice. I know I can pick up girls. I know I don't need to pay. If I ended up paying for it one night, I don't think I'd feel my value or dignity diminish. I know I can go out tomorrow night or make a phone call and bang for free.

I've never paid for sex. I get far too much enjoyment from banging a girl who genuinely wants to bang me. I also take pride in being able to say I've never paid for sex. But I know that probably won't last and I won't rule out paying for it somewhere down the line. And I certainly don't see everyone who indulges in p4p hopeless, undignified losers. Only some of them

 

[Duke Castile]

If all I did was focus on fucking women, I'd be miserable. That's one of four things a man has to do in tandem with the other three to be happy. I've said that several times.

And to be perfectly honest with you, I do believe a guy like zuckeburg is miserable because he's about the furthest thing from anything a woman or a friend would want.

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

"you're just describing you're own feelings"

No shit?

I'm on a forum, in the GAME section, having to debate with guys on why paying for sex is bad for their inner game.

I am actually having an out of body experience because of it.

You're describing your own personal feelings while implying they respresent some kind of objective notion of "shame".

All I'm saying is that whether it effects a person's "inner game" or sense of self worth is a completely subjective matter and is up to the individual.

 

[Duke Castile]

Does paying hookers money help your game? Is that subjective too?

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

Men that are married or men with no game or no balls pay for sex.

Men with game do not.

That's the important lesson here.

You guys are valuing the opinion of a man that simply can't get laid and chooses to fly overseas to PAY prostitutes.

Jesus Christ listen to yourselves.

There also seems to be a false dichotomy here. "Only those who can't get laid pay for sex," while "Those who can get laid don't."

What about men who do both? I don't see how this is fundamentally different from saying "(Only) those who can't grow and cook their own food pay others to cook their meals for them," while "those who can cook don't." Does this make any sense?

As I said, I don't like the prospect of paying for sex. What's more, would I want that to be my main way of acquiring sex? Hell no. But if an absolute 10 offered to sleep with me for ten cents, I'd do it without batting an eye, and I doubt that most on this forum would be terribly opposed to the thought, either.

 

[Duke Castile]

I don't get how some guys keep using things like growing vegetables and paying for dinner as representative of the same thing we are talking about.

That has nothing to do with the issue. It's not comparable in the least.

Now we are making up hypothetical that will never happen to make a point?

And what about men who do both? I think it hurts their inner game too. They probably pay at the end of the night after nothing else works. In other words, they failed and so they're now reduced to paying for it.

I can't imagine one scenario where paying for sex helps your inner game. Your inner confidence.

I'm too tired to straighten this out. Headed to bed. It's a great discussion.

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

Does paying hookers money help your game? Is that subjective too?

Does paying hookers suddenly make it impossible for you to game regular women? Again, I see a false dichotomy.

The guy whose thread started this discussion doesn't seem to be interested in learning game. If his only goal is sex, I'm not going to judge him for it, so long as consenting adults are involved.

 

[Duke Castile]

Does paying hookers money help your game? Is that subjective too?

Does paying hookers suddenly make it impossible for you to game regular women? Again, I see a false dichotomy.

The guy whose thread started this discussion doesn't seem to be interested in learning game. If his only goal is sex, I'm not going to judge him for it, so long as consenting adults are involved.

Jesus Christ man. You talk about everything but the kitchen sink and the issue at hand.

We aren't talking about consenting adults. We aren't talking about GMO farming or cooking shows or whatever else.

We are talking about HAVING to pay for sex because you don't have the ability to get it otherwise.

When you pay for sex, you are acknowledging that fact. It's an admission of failure. It's a affirmation that you couldn't cut it on your own.

Do I think someone can get to a point where it wouldn't hurt their game. Absolutely, but this guy, and most of the guys on here, are not there.

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

I don't get how some guys keep using things like growing vegetables and paying for dinner as representative of the same thing we are talking about.

That has nothing to do with the issue. It's not comparable in the least.

Why not?

In both scenarios, we have the acquisition of something (sex, food) either through a skill that often requires months to years of practiceto get good at (game, cooking), or through the easy way that requires no skill, i.e. paying for it.

Is the former better than the latter? Yes

Does paying for food/sex make help your ability to acquire food/sex without (direct) payment? No.

Does the latter (paying for food/sex) automatically exclude the ability to do the former (acquiring food/sex through skill) or vice versa? No.

It there an inherent and objective shame in the latter, independant of personal opinion and cultural norms? I don't think so.

Now we are making up hypothetical that will never happen to make a point?

Which hypothetical scenario are you talking about?

And what about men who do both? I think it hurts their inner game too.

I can't imagine one scenario where paying for sex helps your inner game. Your inner confidence.

Does paying a hooker actively help your inner game? No. Of course not.

Does it have to be harmful to it by harming your self esteem? I say that's up to you.

They probably pay at the end of the night after nothing else works. In other words, they failed and so they're now reduced to paying for it

In that hypothetical scenario, the guy failed that night either way, regardless of whether he goes home to jerk off or head to a brothel.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

In that hypothetical scenario, the guy failed that night either way, regardless of whether he goes home to jerk off or head to a brothel.

You're missing the trial by fire attitude.

If you know that you will get laid if you don't pull, you don't really put your best effort forward. After some time, you just skip the bar and go straight to the hookers because you don't want to deal with drinks, driving, attitudes, insert other reasons here...

 

[TheMachinist]

Game is more about self improvement and unshakeable self confidence than anything else.Even the best game spitter on earth can't sleep with every woman that turns him on.The only thing he can do is present the best package he can and let the chips fall where they may.At the end of the day a woman has to WANNA GIVE a man some pussy in order for him to GET some pussy.

 

[Vicious]

Fisto I'm confident that you slept with a number of whores in SEA. You may not have payed them or you indirectly payed them with the illusion that you'd be their boyfriend or get them a green card or similar. Does this change the fact that they are still hookers?