2024 US Presidential Election

Brewer

Pigeon
Trump is like an aging NFL quarterback who won a Super Bowl in previous years but who has clearly lost a step and become a liability for his team. The fans love him and don't want to see him go, and he himself thinks he's still got gas in the tank, but the sad reality of his decline and unsuitability for the job is obvious to any objective observer.

There is literally no way in which anyone on the right can objectively look at Donald Trump in the current year and consider him a better Presidential candidate than Ron DeSantis for 2024. I'm sorry, you just can't. If you are making this assessment then you are either 1) Lacking crucial information about one or both of these men, or 2) Unknowingly holding on to a strong emotional attachment to Donald Trump based on the intense positive feelings he evoked in you in the past (probably the crazy 2015-2017 MAGA energy).

You have to separate your objective assessment of reality from your emotional attachments. You can still like Trump and appreciate the good things he did while recognizing that he clearly isn't the right guy in 2024. Donald Trump is not your father. You don't owe him any personal loyalty. He certainly hasn't shown much loyalty to his most ardent supporters, many of whom are still rotting away in jail for the crime of publicly supporting him on Jan 6th in the wake of the stolen election.

There are no heroes in politics, and the moment you declare a man to be one you enlist yourself in his cult of personality.

I think the thing holding people back from going all-in on DeSantis is the sense that, willingly or not, he's being used as a tool by the establishment uniparty to nudge the Trump movement back on the reservation.

Trump, for all his failure as a leader and governor, woke up people who had been asleep since the JFK years. DeSantis is a much more capable governor, and he's doing all the right things now (covid, culture war, immigration), but the intuition is that he's controllable and will tone that stuff down once he's president. Of course, it's not like Trump did much either, but at least he kept saying the quiet part out loud.

That's the choice at this point:
  1. authentic anti-politician who will raise hell, throw the media and establishment back into attack mode, won't actually do much, can't really govern, and may have lost a step, or
  2. smart and effective governor who may win small victories on the culture war front, but otherwise pushes the GOP back into Paul Ryan neo-con territory
 
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Uzisuicide

Kingfisher
Protestant
Gold Member
Trump is like an aging NFL quarterback who won a Super Bowl in previous years but who has clearly lost a step and become a liability for his team. The fans love him and don't want to see him go, and he himself thinks he's still got gas in the tank, but the sad reality of his decline and unsuitability for the job is obvious to any objective observer.

There is literally no way in which anyone on the right can objectively look at Donald Trump in the current year and consider him a better Presidential candidate than Ron DeSantis for 2024. I'm sorry, you just can't. If you are making this assessment then you are either 1) Lacking crucial information about one or both of these men, or 2) Unknowingly holding on to a strong emotional attachment to Donald Trump based on the intense positive feelings he evoked in you in the past (probably the crazy 2015-2017 MAGA energy).

You have to separate your objective assessment of reality from your emotional attachments. You can still like Trump and appreciate the good things he did while recognizing that he clearly isn't the right guy in 2024. Donald Trump is not your father. You don't owe him any personal loyalty. He certainly hasn't shown much loyalty to his most ardent supporters, many of whom are still rotting away in jail for the crime of publicly supporting him on Jan 6th in the wake of the stolen election.

There are no heroes in politics, and the moment you declare a man to be one you enlist yourself in his cult of personality.

The Trump base will not abandon him. Not for DeSantis or anyone. But if there were anyone capable of beating Trump, DeSantis is the only one who can even come close. I get it Scorpion, at this point I would prefer to move on from Trump and nominate DeSantis for the 2024 race. But a fight between them now would only damage both of them. DeSantis is 44 years old he'll get his shot in '28 if there's a country left. Trump/DeSantis '24... that is if Trump is big enough to put him on the ticket.
 

get2choppaaa

Hummingbird
Orthodox
The Trump base will not abandon him. Not for DeSantis or anyone. But if there were anyone capable of beating Trump, DeSantis is the only one who can even come close. I get it Scorpion, at this point I would prefer to move on from Trump and nominate DeSantis for the 2024 race. But a fight between them now would only damage both of them. DeSantis is 44 years old he'll get his shot in '28 if there's a country left. Trump/DeSantis '24... that is if Trump is big enough to put him on the ticket.
This is pretty much it...

Regardless of the cult of personality or not his base isn't going to to support DeSantis, and DeSantis knows that.

Lamenting that still supporting him is a poor decision, which I don't necessarily agree with, doesn't change the reality that he is still the face of the movement.

DeSantis may be a better executor, may be a better government operator and administrator, but it doesn't really matter because all politics are based on rehtoric.

Rhetoric on both sides.

And Trump has the Rhetorical heart strings of the white rural base, as well as many of the other groups who believe in his symbolism even if that's a false representation.

It's facts like the below which make that visible.

 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
There is a 0.0% chance DeSantis will stop the war against Russia when he's taking multi-million dollar donations from some of the fiercest Neo-Cons in America.

Quite frankly, I don't see how anyone could be a rational patriot and support DeSantis in light of this fact, seems to me the people who like DeSantis are just fans of Florida in general. They are more emotional due to their affinity of him as Gov, and they can't see his glaring flaws.
 

hedonist

Pelican
Other Christian
What if DeSantis doesn’t even run? Gary Johnson?

Like quite a few posters said in the past at the least Trump is just slowing down clown world.

Do something like Gab has been suggesting and work on your tribe.
 

mountainaire

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
The people who hoped Trump would be Hitler 2.0 were always going to be disappointed. He was never that guy, and he won't ever be that guy. Trump is a baby boomer NYC real estate mogul and TV celebrity. He was never going to be a Mussolini, Pinochet, or any of the other memes. His term as president showed that.

He's still the best option, though. There isn't a better option currently. Desantis is not a better option. No one here can make a reasonable case why Desantis, who is being bankrolled by establishment ZOG war hawk neocons, is a better option than Trump. A poster here keeps criticizing Trump for his fundraising emails asking people for money. Well, Desantis doesn't have to do that... he's already raised $200 million from the usual suspects, and he hasn't even officially announced yet.

I view Trump like our last "time out", when we've crossed the two minute warning as a country. He's not going to save America. He will apply the brakes a bit, as we're speeding towards a cliff, and possibly give us some more time. This has appeal if you want to buy property, and start a family.

Either way, after these recent mid-terms my hope for a politician to right the course through "democratic" means has severely diminished. It's become more clear to me, as time wears on, that the American people just haven't suffered enough yet. So I'm paying less attention to the day to day, and focusing more on my own faith and health, something I should have been doing all along.
 
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scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
These latest replies are demonstrating exactly the issue I pointed out in my last post, that issue being people are supporting Trump simply because they have an emotional attachment to him. The fundamental problem is that you have an idea of Donald Trump in your head that stands starkly at odds with the reality of Donald Trump in the current year.

Your idea of Donald Trump is based on the high energy of the 2015-2016 campaign, when anything seemed possible and when Trump was talking about building the wall, draining the swamp, locking her up, and all the other MAGA rhetoric.

The reality of Donald Trump is much more subdued, and looks like a man who got politically outmaneuvered and neutered by his opponents from his first day in office, who made disastrous personnel decisions and was repeatedly undermined and betrayed from within (including by his own Jewish son in law), who demonstrated a total inability to build a legislative coalition and push his agenda through Congress, who slobbered all over himself to serve the interests of Jews and blacks while completely ignoring his white base, who stood idly by while Big Tech completely banned and de-platformed every major independent right-wing voice (who in sum were largely responsible for his election), who inexplicably handed the country over to Fauci and Birx rather than standing against what his instincts correctly told him was a scamdemic, and finally, who allowed the 2020 election to be stolen from him without a fight and his own supporters thrown in jail, and who instead of rallying his side to prevent this from happening again by supporting election reform laws across the country, just complained about it on social media.

In contrast, you also have an idea of Ron DeSantis that stands at odds with the reality of the man.

Your idea of Ron DeSantis is that he is a standard issue, GOPe stooge, neocon, controlled by his donors, interested only in serving the interests of Wall Street and Israel.

The reality of Ron DeSantis is that he completely snuck in the back door of GOP politics and was never their golden boy. He grew up middle class, has no legacy connections and attended the Ivy League through merit alone. He was elected to a Florida Congressional seat at age 33 after winning a 7-way GOP primary. He was a longshot for the 2018 Gubernatorial nomination against Adam Putnam, a typical GOP stooge who had been groomed for the Governorship since he was a teenager. He defeated Putnam with the help of Trump's endorsement, and the GOP was initially very reluctant to embrace him for that reason. During his time in office, DeSantis has demonstrated exceptional judgment and political courage, and has consistently advocated for the interests of his base ahead of those of the GOP and donor class (i.e. COVID, immigration, anti-wokism). He has also demonstrated a high level of political acumen, and guided efforts in redistricting and combating electoral fraud that helped cement Florida's status as a red state. DeSantis has paid the usual lip service to his Jewish allies (no more than Trump or any other GOP politician has) but has not indicated he holds any neo-con or warmongering views. There is absolutely no reason to believe that DeSantis supports engaging in any foreign wars. In fact, his silence on foreign policy issues is glaring and speaks volumes itself. If he were truly a GOP neocon stooge, he would not hesitate to blow that trumpet and wave the flag in support of military adventurism to signal as such to his donors. But he is doing no such thing, because he clearly has no sympathies toward that agenda. And finally, the reason that DeSantis is drawing so much financial support from the donor class is not because he is a GOP stooge who is going to push their typical agenda, it's because he is correctly being recognized as the only Republican with a shot at defeating Trump in a primary.

I implore you all to do more research on DeSantis. He is not who you think he is, and frankly, he's not who most of the donor class thinks he is, either. If he gets in office I think people are going to be very surprised with the direction he takes (essentially Trumpism, but more effective) but the result of his policies will be so positive for the country and broadly popular that there will be no way to effectively stand against him. This is exactly what happened in Florida, and how a guy who won his initial election by less than 1% somehow won re-election by 20%.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
He's still the best option, though. There isn't a better option currently. Desantis is not a better option. No one here can make a reasonable case why Desantis, who is being bankrolled by establishment ZOG war hawk neocons, is a better option than Trump.

I can, and I have. They are both bankrolled by the establishment ZOG war hawk neocons. Trump brags about all the things he does for Israel, over and over. Trump just gets more small donors, which is my exact reason for not liking him. The Trump cult of personality is the most dangerous thing facing the USA right now. For some reason, 100 IQ blue pilled normie Americans are hypnotized by him because he said something "based" almost 7 years ago. I don't get, I simply do not understand how anyone can even listen to him speak, but he captivates this demographic in a way that is beyond dangerous.

Blackrock Financial is the most evil/satanic entity in the world. I have listened to some podcasts that do deep dives on Blackrock, and then afterwards verified what they said, and it is all true. Why is the NFL so woke? Blackrock. Who is pushing diversity quotas at my place of employment? Blackrock. Who is pushing more female careerists and less women wanting to get married and have children? Blackrock. It is all Blackrock.

If DeSantis, or Biden, or whomever else, gives Blackrock Financial $5 trillion free and clear, and tells the rest of us to "go suck eggs" while we lose our houses and businesses, the people take to the streets and protest. And that is what we need more than ever. The Europeans, despite their lacking of freedoms, are protesting very violently over much less. And the Americans were sitting around saying "trust the plan" and doing nothing. This is beyond dangerous and it has to go away for us to ever have a chance to organize.

With all that said, I expect the deep state to make Trump look like the plucky outsider and give him the presidential vote in 2024 so he can perform this act again and keep everyone asleep while the very last bit of time escapes us.
 

C-Note

Hummingbird
Other Christian
Gold Member
From what I'm seeing on TV, it looks like the globalist media hasn't coalesced around a strategy against Trump this time yet. Yesterday they were trying to downplay his announcement, but I don't think that's going to work in the long run. The January 6 Committee is fizzling out. I suspect they're waiting for some issue they can inflate and run with but, haven't found it yet.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Other Christian
Gold Member
The presidency is largely a role of appointment and delegation. It doesn't matter what Trump's average donation amount was or who it came from, because Trump hired and surrounded himself with the exact same people as any other demonstrably controlled neocon. It's baffling how Trump can make John Bolton the face of foreign policy (conveniently memoryholed by nostalgic loyalists) yet still claim to be a self-funded outsider. I see zero practical difference in terms of execution.
 

ItalianStallion9

Woodpecker
Protestant
These latest replies are demonstrating exactly the issue I pointed out in my last post, that issue being people are supporting Trump simply because they have an emotional attachment to him. The fundamental problem is that you have an idea of Donald Trump in your head that stands starkly at odds with the reality of Donald Trump in the current year.

Your idea of Donald Trump is based on the high energy of the 2015-2016 campaign, when anything seemed possible and when Trump was talking about building the wall, draining the swamp, locking her up, and all the other MAGA rhetoric.

The reality of Donald Trump is much more subdued, and looks like a man who got politically outmaneuvered and neutered by his opponents from his first day in office, who made disastrous personnel decisions and was repeatedly undermined and betrayed from within (including by his own Jewish son in law), who demonstrated a total inability to build a legislative coalition and push his agenda through Congress, who slobbered all over himself to serve the interests of Jews and blacks while completely ignoring his white base, who stood idly by while Big Tech completely banned and de-platformed every major independent right-wing voice (who in sum were largely responsible for his election), who inexplicably handed the country over to Fauci and Birx rather than standing against what his instincts correctly told him was a scamdemic, and finally, who allowed the 2020 election to be stolen from him without a fight and his own supporters thrown in jail, and who instead of rallying his side to prevent this from happening again by supporting election reform laws across the country, just complained about it on social media.

In contrast, you also have an idea of Ron DeSantis that stands at odds with the reality of the man.

Your idea of Ron DeSantis is that he is a standard issue, GOPe stooge, neocon, controlled by his donors, interested only in serving the interests of Wall Street and Israel.

The reality of Ron DeSantis is that he completely snuck in the back door of GOP politics and was never their golden boy. He grew up middle class, has no legacy connections and attended the Ivy League through merit alone. He was elected to a Florida Congressional seat at age 33 after winning a 7-way GOP primary. He was a longshot for the 2018 Gubernatorial nomination against Adam Putnam, a typical GOP stooge who had been groomed for the Governorship since he was a teenager. He defeated Putnam with the help of Trump's endorsement, and the GOP was initially very reluctant to embrace him for that reason. During his time in office, DeSantis has demonstrated exceptional judgment and political courage, and has consistently advocated for the interests of his base ahead of those of the GOP and donor class (i.e. COVID, immigration, anti-wokism). He has also demonstrated a high level of political acumen, and guided efforts in redistricting and combating electoral fraud that helped cement Florida's status as a red state. DeSantis has paid the usual lip service to his Jewish allies (no more than Trump or any other GOP politician has) but has not indicated he holds any neo-con or warmongering views. There is absolutely no reason to believe that DeSantis supports engaging in any foreign wars. In fact, his silence on foreign policy issues is glaring and speaks volumes itself. If he were truly a GOP neocon stooge, he would not hesitate to blow that trumpet and wave the flag in support of military adventurism to signal as such to his donors. But he is doing no such thing, because he clearly has no sympathies toward that agenda. And finally, the reason that DeSantis is drawing so much financial support from the donor class is not because he is a GOP stooge who is going to push their typical agenda, it's because he is correctly being recognized as the only Republican with a shot at defeating Trump in a primary.

I implore you all to do more research on DeSantis. He is not who you think he is, and frankly, he's not who most of the donor class thinks he is, either. If he gets in office I think people are going to be very surprised with the direction he takes (essentially Trumpism, but more effective) but the result of his policies will be so positive for the country and broadly popular that there will be no way to effectively stand against him. This is exactly what happened in Florida, and how a guy who won his initial election by less than 1% somehow won re-election by 20%.

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scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
If you read the details of that Wikipedia quote, it's actually hilarious how innocuous those things are. It's almost as if DeSantis is deliberately going out of his way to placate his Jewish donors by engaging in the most meaningless token gestures possible. Meanwhile, Trump moved the embassy to Jerusalem, fired missiles into Syria, assassinated Soleimani, issued pardons to several Jewish financial criminals, allowed his Jewish son in law to run his White House, just to name a few things off the top of my head.


Just three days ago, Trump happily received an award from a Zionist organization who called him literally "the best friend Israel ever had in the White House."

So I'm sorry, but anyone who supports Trump while simultaneously criticizing DeSantis as a tool of the Jews is either incredibly stupid or dishonest.
 

MRBR1908

Robin
Other Christian
Yep, Trump did all that aided by those around him who were members of the deep state and the tribe still shafted him for bumbling Biden. It's all just crap.
 

mountainaire

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
sorry, but anyone who supports Trump while simultaneously criticizing DeSantis as a tool of the Jews is either incredibly stupid or dishonest.
Well, it's certainly become clear who they prefer between the two. That much is indisputable. We can ask why, but no one here really knows the answer to that question. I maintain the position that it's because they aren't as confident in Trump to fully go along with what they're planning geopolitically (wars) in the near future.

Obviously both men are heavily embedded with Jews.
 

eradicator

Peacock
Agnostic
Gold Member
These latest replies are demonstrating exactly the issue I pointed out in my last post, that issue being people are supporting Trump simply because they have an emotional attachment to him.


Like in any election, we probably don’t like any of the choices but will pick the dog with the fewest amount of fleas. I’m not sure if that’s Desantis or Trump. Trump is 76, would be 78 if elected in 2024. Biden was 78 when he took office, and is showing us part of why we don’t want a 78 year old man in office running the country. My dad is in his 80s and was a sharp guy, a scientist, and even now I see some decline but he is still lucid. I wouldn’t ask him to run the country at his age
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
The main reason Trump is getting dumped by donors in favor of DeSantis has nothing to do with his personality or his politics. He's getting dumped because he's perceived to be a loser at this point, and no one wants to waste their money propping up a losing candidate. DeSantis is seen as the stronger horse and thus the better bet to throw money behind. If the donors and the neocons are assuming that DeSantis will be more amenable to their agenda than Trump, I expect they will be disappointed. After all, DeSantis was not afraid to stand up and reject the COVID insanity at the height of the pandemic, while Trump folded like a cheap suit. DeSantis is smart enough to know when people are trying to bamboozle him, and unlike Trump, he actually reads and understands the data and reports that come across his desk. He has demonstrated independence of mind and judgment that has always favored normal, productive citizens. He is not Jeb Bush or any other GOP cog in the machine. Anyone saying otherwise is uninformed or deliberately lying.
 

mountainaire

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
^ Desantis is being astroturfed as the stronger horse. There is a big difference. These people aren't following trends, they're trying to create them, and they obviously have an agenda.

Also, these people never liked Trump. They begrudgingly went with him after it was clear they had no other choice. Now they are simply betting that Desantis will be what Jeb and Ted failed to be in 2016.
 

Dusty

Owl
Gold Member
I think it’s time for us MAGA types to take the “L” on Trump. It pains me to say it, but the Deep State won. They sullied Trump so much, most normies will never vote for him. Trump and the Deep State faced off, and /our guy/ lost. Trump entered DC like a babe in the woods, and they destroyed him. He was too naive and they chewed him up and spit him out. A lot of it was self inflicted, with his awful appointments.

We need to be loyal to Trumpism but not to Trump.

Trump may be able to win the primary, but will get blown out in the general, even without cheating this time. We need to move on, and Desantis needs to be our guy.
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
^ Desantis is being astroturfed as the stronger horse. There is a big difference. These people aren't following trends, they're trying to create them, and they obviously have an agenda.

Also, these people never liked Trump. They begrudgingly went with him after it was clear they had no other choice. Now they are simply betting that Desantis will be what Jeb and Ted failed to be in 2016.
DeSantis winning re-election by 20% in what was previously considered a swing state suggests there is a little bit more here at play than just media astroturfing, don't you think?

The media is currently pushing DeSantis to attempt to incite a GOP civil war that results in Trump losing the Republican nomination and then running third party out of spite, which is a very possible scenario given his personality and temperament. I'm curious how Trump supporters here would view such a move. Would you view it as warranted? Or just Trump indulging his out of control ego at the expense of the entire country's future?

I personally would have zero qualms about voting for Trump in 2024 if he winds up with the nomination, even though I view him as highly flawed and more likely to lose the general election. Even with his problems, he is infinitely preferable over Biden or another Dem. However, I suspect there are many devoted Trump supporters who would favor him running third party if he loses the nomination, or who would refuse to vote for DeSantis out of spite. This supports my contention that a large number of Trump's base are simply caught up in his cult of personality, and support him more for emotional reasons than because they actually want or expect him to do anything positive for the country. This is a very dangerous mentality and is something that I am trying to combat with these posts, by forcing people to think deeply about why exactly they support Trump at this time. Is it because you actually think he's the best guy for the job and because he's likely to win? Or is it because you've just become comfortable as a "Trump guy" over the past 7 years and reflexively support him and dismiss all of his rivals?
 
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