2024 US Presidential Election

BillMcNeal

Woodpecker
Other Christian
The media is currently pushing DeSantis to attempt to incite a GOP civil war that results in Trump losing the Republican nomination and then running third party out of spite, which is a very possible scenario given his personality and temperament. I'm curious how Trump supporters here would view such a move. Would you view it as warranted? Or just Trump indulging his out of control ego at the expense of the entire country's future?
Had exactly this conversation on 2024 with a semi-normie friend of mine today. We came to the mutual conclusion that the odds of Trump going third party are far higher than ever endorsing DeSantis, and that basically the options are that Trump wins the nomination or it's 1992 all over again, with whatever Democrat runs winning because Republicans split their vote. The final conclusion was that the fate of the nation rests with DeSantis deciding not to run. If DeSantis announces then the car goes off the cliff with, as MAGA republicans like to say, "no brakes."
 
Last edited:

budoslavic

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
It was supposed to be over for Trump after "grab 'em by the P**sy" though and he won.
The Elites/GAE did not expect Trump to win Hillary Clinton to lose in 2016.

main_1484694656-Hillary-Clinton-Special-Commemorative-Madam-President-Recalled-Newsweek-Magazine-PristineAuction.com.jpg
 

Thomas More

Crow
Protestant
These latest replies are demonstrating exactly the issue I pointed out in my last post, that issue being people are supporting Trump simply because they have an emotional attachment to him. The fundamental problem is that you have an idea of Donald Trump in your head that stands starkly at odds with the reality of Donald Trump in the current year.

Your idea of Donald Trump is based on the high energy of the 2015-2016 campaign, when anything seemed possible and when Trump was talking about building the wall, draining the swamp, locking her up, and all the other MAGA rhetoric.

The reality of Donald Trump is much more subdued, and looks like a man who got politically outmaneuvered and neutered by his opponents from his first day in office, who made disastrous personnel decisions and was repeatedly undermined and betrayed from within (including by his own Jewish son in law), who demonstrated a total inability to build a legislative coalition and push his agenda through Congress, who slobbered all over himself to serve the interests of Jews and blacks while completely ignoring his white base, who stood idly by while Big Tech completely banned and de-platformed every major independent right-wing voice (who in sum were largely responsible for his election), who inexplicably handed the country over to Fauci and Birx rather than standing against what his instincts correctly told him was a scamdemic, and finally, who allowed the 2020 election to be stolen from him without a fight and his own supporters thrown in jail, and who instead of rallying his side to prevent this from happening again by supporting election reform laws across the country, just complained about it on social media.

In contrast, you also have an idea of Ron DeSantis that stands at odds with the reality of the man.

Your idea of Ron DeSantis is that he is a standard issue, GOPe stooge, neocon, controlled by his donors, interested only in serving the interests of Wall Street and Israel.

The reality of Ron DeSantis is that he completely snuck in the back door of GOP politics and was never their golden boy. He grew up middle class, has no legacy connections and attended the Ivy League through merit alone. He was elected to a Florida Congressional seat at age 33 after winning a 7-way GOP primary. He was a longshot for the 2018 Gubernatorial nomination against Adam Putnam, a typical GOP stooge who had been groomed for the Governorship since he was a teenager. He defeated Putnam with the help of Trump's
DeSantis winning re-election by 20% in what was previously considered a swing state suggests there is a little bit more here at play than just media astroturfing, don't you think?

The media is currently pushing DeSantis to attempt to incite a GOP civil war that results in Trump losing the Republican nomination and then running third party out of spite, which is a very possible scenario given his personality and temperament. I'm curious how Trump supporters here would view such a move. Would you view it as warranted? Or just Trump indulging his out of control ego at the expense of the entire country's future?

I personally would have zero qualms about voting for Trump in 2024 if he winds up with the nomination, even though I view him as highly flawed and more likely to lose the general election. Even with his problems, he is infinitely preferable over Biden or another Dem. However, I suspect there are many devoted Trump supporters who would favor him running third party if he loses the nomination, or who would refuse to vote for DeSantis out of spite. This supports my contention that a large number of Trump's base are simply caught up in his cult of personality, and support him more for emotional reasons than because they actually want or expect him to do anything positive for the country. This is a very dangerous mentality and is something that I am trying to combat with these posts, by forcing people to think deeply about why exactly they support Trump at this time. Is it because you actually think he's the best guy for the job and because he's likely to win? Or is it because you've just become comfortable as a "Trump guy" over the past 7 years and reflexively support him and dismiss all of his rivals?

endorsement, and the GOP was initially very reluctant to embrace him for that reason. During his time in office, DeSantis has demonstrated exceptional judgment and political courage, and has consistently advocated for the interests of his base ahead of those of the GOP and donor class (i.e. COVID, immigration, anti-wokism). He has also demonstrated a high level of political acumen, and guided efforts in redistricting and combating electoral fraud that helped cement Florida's status as a red state. DeSantis has paid the usual lip service to his Jewish allies (no more than Trump or any other GOP politician has) but has not indicated he holds any neo-con or warmongering views. There is absolutely no reason to believe that DeSantis supports engaging in any foreign wars. In fact, his silence on foreign policy issues is glaring and speaks volumes itself. If he were truly a GOP neocon stooge, he would not hesitate to blow that trumpet and wave the flag in support of military adventurism to signal as such to his donors. But he is doing no such thing, because he clearly has no sympathies toward that agenda. And finally, the reason that DeSantis is drawing so much financial support from the donor class is not because he is a GOP stooge who is going to push their typical agenda, it's because he is correctly being recognized as the only Republican with a shot at defeating Trump in a primary.

I implore you all to do more research on DeSantis. He is not who you think he is, and frankly, he's not who most of the donor class thinks he is, either. If he gets in office I think people are going to be very surprised with the direction he takes (essentially Trumpism, but more effective) but the result of his policies will be so positive for the country and broadly popular that there will be no way to effectively stand against him. This is exactly what happened in Florida, and how a guy who won his initial election by less than 1% somehow won re-election by 20%.
I've seen no sign of this third party threat here on RVF, and haven't seen it anywhere else. If DeSantis changes his mind and decides to run, and if he wins the nomination, I would vote for him, and hope the never Trumpers don't control him too strongly.

Do you have any basis for thinking Trump would go third party for 2024?
 

8ball

Pelican
Catholic
Scorpions points about nostalgia and loyalty are dead on.

I do remember the unbelievable 2015-2016 run, I still watch the young turks meltdown election compilation occasionally as entertainment, it was simply glorious and we all head a role to play, some small, some bigger like Samseau. Keep in mind this forum used to get a ton more traffic and posts from the DT thread where widely shared.

Most of the nostalgia from Trump is not from being president, its from him running for president. The DT presidency by comparison looks great now but lets not forget he made a ton of mistakes. Its important to be objective about the presidency, his chances now, the shifts that have taken place and his competitors.

I dont get the comments about civil war, competition is healthy. The republican winner will have the entire media, 90% of fortune500 donors against them no matter who they are and they need to be ready, you become ready by dealing with the primary, beating your opponents one by one.
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Had exactly this conversation on 2024 with a semi-normie friend of mine today. We came to the mutual conclusion that the odds of Trump going third party are far higher than ever endorsing DeSantis, and that basically the options are that Trump wins the nomination or it's 1992 all over again, with whatever Democrat runs winning because Republicans split their vote. The final conclusion was that the fate of the nation rests with DeSantis deciding not to run. If DeSantis announces then the car goes off the cliff with, as MAGA republicans like to say, "no brakes."
Trump running third party would cement him as being the most loathed major politician in probably the entire history of the country. At that point he would be despised by everyone on the left, as well as at least 2/3 of the right. A third party Trump campaign would be hopeless from the outset, and driven purely by spite. Given the particular juncture of history at which we currently stand, it would certainly rank among the most selfish and nakedly egotistical actions anyone has ever taken, in the entire history of the world. I do not exaggerate. Even someone with an ego as tremendous as Trump's would surely hesitate to make such a move.
 

It_is_my_time

Crow
Protestant
Trump running third party would cement him as being the most loathed major politician in probably the entire history of the country. At that point he would be despised by everyone on the left, as well as at least 2/3 of the right. A third party Trump campaign would be hopeless from the outset, and driven purely by spite. Given the particular juncture of history at which we currently stand, it would certainly rank among the most selfish and nakedly egotistical actions anyone has ever taken, in the entire history of the world. I do not exaggerate. Even someone with an ego as tremendous as Trump's would surely hesitate to make such a move.
It would be a repeat of Teddy Roosevelt in 1912, which allowed the worst president in the history of the USA to get elected, Woodrow Wilson. Soon thereafter we got the IRS, the Federal Reserve, Women voting, WW1, and millions of innocent people killed across Europe.

The results this time around might be worse.
 

TCOCBR18

Robin
Orthodox
it was simply glorious and we all head a role to play, some small, some bigger like Samseau. Keep in mind this forum used to get a ton more traffic and posts from the DT thread where widely shared.
I joined this forum just a few months ago and have repeatedly seen hints about how it used to be much larger. I am really trying to piece together the history of the Roosh V Forum. Was this forum a seriously major player back in the 2015-16 era?
 

TCOCBR18

Robin
Orthodox
I wanted to say about DeSantis' foreign policy: I have not heard of him making any widely publicized proclamations about Ukraine. Obviously he is not going to come out and say he likes Russia, he probably does not like Russia, but the mere fact that he seems to have kept silent on it is somewhat telling, as scorpion pointed out. By American standards in 2022, to not be chanting pro-Ukrainian slogans every single day, well, that practically makes you a radical reactionary.
Of course on the Ukraine issue one would probably rather have Trump, who has openly been critical of US support to that country. You'd rather have somebody openly critical, but still, DeSantis is at least not terrible about it like most politicians. The best candidate of all on Ukraine, however, would be Tucker Carlson in my opinion.
 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
The main reason Trump is getting dumped by donors in favor of DeSantis has nothing to do with his personality or his politics. He's getting dumped because he's perceived to be a loser at this point, and no one wants to waste their money propping up a losing candidate. DeSantis is seen as the stronger horse and thus the better bet to throw money behind. If the donors and the neocons are assuming that DeSantis will be more amenable to their agenda than Trump, I expect they will be disappointed. After all, DeSantis was not afraid to stand up and reject the COVID insanity at the height of the pandemic, while Trump folded like a cheap suit. DeSantis is smart enough to know when people are trying to bamboozle him, and unlike Trump, he actually reads and understands the data and reports that come across his desk. He has demonstrated independence of mind and judgment that has always favored normal, productive citizens. He is not Jeb Bush or any other GOP cog in the machine. Anyone saying otherwise is uninformed or deliberately lying.

This is incredibly naïve. Those donors are paying customers and they will expect payment in full from whoever they sponsor. The reason they hate Trump is because he doesn't need their money as much as they need him, so they instead try to make Trump lose to get someone more bribable into office.

DeSantis has already proven he will sell out, just look at how rampant illegal labor is in Florida. That's 100% DeSantis repaying his donors.

If your only contention is that Trump isn't competent, then why support DeSantis? Rand Paul beats him on every level:

- Bigger vote margins
- Better record, one of the best
- Has never sold out once in 10 years.

The idea that it's Trump or DeSantis is 100% a false dichotomy, there are other Republicans who score higher than DeSantis. Another good example is Senator Kennedy from Lousiana, he voted against certifying the 2020 election even after the riot (now that takes guts).

DeSantis has never said how rigged or broken the 2020 elections were - because if he had, he wouldn't be getting big bucks from guys like (((Billy Kristol))) and other friends.

The DeSantis hype is just that - hype - and there's no substance to him, but DeSantis does get a lot of coverage from the (((media))), which makes people start associating replacing Trump with someone new... "Oh yeah that guy DeSantis I saw on TV looks okay!"

It's so laughably transparent what's going on, it will be fun to watch Trump expose DeSantis in the 2024 primaries. DeSantis will never be presidential material again.
 

mountainaire

Woodpecker
Orthodox Inquirer
DeSantis winning re-election by 20% in what was previously considered a swing state suggests there is a little bit more here at play than just media astroturfing, don't you think?

The media is currently pushing DeSantis to attempt to incite a GOP civil war that results in Trump losing the Republican nomination and then running third party out of spite, which is a very possible scenario given his personality and temperament. I'm curious how Trump supporters here would view such a move. Would you view it as warranted? Or just Trump indulging his out of control ego at the expense of the entire country's future?

I personally would have zero qualms about voting for Trump in 2024 if he winds up with the nomination, even though I view him as highly flawed and more likely to lose the general election. Even with his problems, he is infinitely preferable over Biden or another Dem. However, I suspect there are many devoted Trump supporters who would favor him running third party if he loses the nomination, or who would refuse to vote for DeSantis out of spite. This supports my contention that a large number of Trump's base are simply caught up in his cult of personality, and support him more for emotional reasons than because they actually want or expect him to do anything positive for the country. This is a very dangerous mentality and is something that I am trying to combat with these posts, by forcing people to think deeply about why exactly they support Trump at this time. Is it because you actually think he's the best guy for the job and because he's likely to win? Or is it because you've just become comfortable as a "Trump guy" over the past 7 years and reflexively support him and dismiss all of his rivals?
More states would have looked like Florida if not for blatantly fraudulent elections, but I digress...

Speaking for myself, I'm not so much a Trump supporter as I am an opponent of the agenda being forced upon us by the elites. It's not any more complicated than that. I feel much of his base is the same way. I was never a "republican". I have no loyalty to the establishment GOP.

So if the GOP doesn't give him a fair shot, you can count on his base taking notice of that. How could they not?

People are weary. They've been gaslit, ostracized, and heavily propagandized for 7 years. They have a list of legitimate grievances a mile long, that the entire media/state/govt apparatus refuses to even acknowledge.

Trump or no, I think they're going to have a tough time trying to steer political discourse back to the old way of "pick either a neo-con or neo-liberal". People got a tiny whiff of nationalist rhetoric with Trump, and they want more. They're never going to settle for a Mitt Romney ever again...

TLDR - Trump's base isn't going away. And they're unlikely to accept an inorganic substitute.
 
Last edited:

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
This is incredibly naïve. Those donors are paying customers and they will expect payment in full from whoever they sponsor. The reason they hate Trump is because he doesn't need their money as much as they need him, so they instead try to make Trump lose to get someone more bribable into office.

DeSantis has already proven he will sell out, just look at how rampant illegal labor is in Florida. That's 100% DeSantis repaying his donors.

If your only contention is that Trump isn't competent, then why support DeSantis? Rand Paul beats him on every level:

- Bigger vote margins
- Better record, one of the best
- Has never sold out once in 10 years.

The idea that it's Trump or DeSantis is 100% a false dichotomy, there are other Republicans who score higher than DeSantis. Another good example is Senator Kennedy from Lousiana, he voted against certifying the 2020 election even after the riot (now that takes guts).

DeSantis has never said how rigged or broken the 2020 elections were - because if he had, he wouldn't be getting big bucks from guys like (((Billy Kristol))) and other friends.

The DeSantis hype is just that - hype - and there's no substance to him, but DeSantis does get a lot of coverage from the (((media))), which makes people start associating replacing Trump with someone new... "Oh yeah that guy DeSantis I saw on TV looks okay!"

It's so laughably transparent what's going on, it will be fun to watch Trump expose DeSantis in the 2024 primaries. DeSantis will never be presidential material again.
With respect, your posting on this topic is growing increasingly nonsensical. You do realize that most of the DeSantis donors who you say are "paying customers who expect payment in full" are the same guys who donated heavily to Trump, right? And I'm talking about the 2020 campaign here. These are people who were funding Trump after his first term, so obviously they were pleased with what he delivered them while in office. See here: https://abcnews.go.com/Business/billionaire-donors-defecting-trump-watch/story?id=93409938

As for Rand Paul, I like him a lot, but talking about him as a Presidential candidate is again, completely nonsensical. First of all, he isn't running. Second of all, we saw him run in 2016 and he was not impressive as a Presidential candidate. Thirdly, Presidential politics is more complicated than just saying, "Let's find the guy we think is best and make him President!" There are a host of intangible factors at play, and Rand Paul has none of those factors working for him. I do think he would make an excellent potential VP pick for either Trump or DeSantis, however.

Your dismissal of DeSantis as being "just hype" is laughable, and one I have repeatedly disproven by posting about his background and accomplishments while in office. You are choosing to deliberately ignore this information for reasons known only to yourself, but I suspect you have a strong emotional attachment to Trump, and feel that backing DeSantis would be a sort of personal betrayal. That's something you'll have to work through for yourself, but I expect that eventually you'll come around and realize that Trump just isn't the best choice in 2024, and that the decision to send him into retirement is not a personal one. If you look at this more like a hiring manager or a coach and less like a fan or a friend, the choice is stark and obvious.

I think a lot of Trump fans are going to be very disappointed by what happens in the primaries. Trump is going to be extremely low energy compared to 2016 and 2020, and his schtick just isn't going to play the same when he's firing his guns at a guy like DeSantis instead of Hillary, Jeb Bush or Joe Biden. I predict that he will bow out of the race sooner than most people expect, and that the greatest risk the GOP faces in 2024 is that his supporters refuse to back DeSantis out of spite, in vindictive, womanlike fashion.
 

scorpion

Hummingbird
Gold Member
Also Kari and Trump at dinner tonight. She's on the shortlist for VP some think.
Putting Kari Lake on his ticket as VP would be a total Trump move, and would not surprise me at all. It would be a disastrously irresponsible decision for the country, considering that she's never even held elective office and is completely unproven as a leader. But she seems dog loyal to Trump, and comes across great on TV. Which are basically the only things he cares about.

The fact that anyone here could seriously considering voting for a ticket with a WOMAN who has never even been elected dogcatcher sitting a heartbeat away from the Presidency is pretty insane to me, and further highlights the emotional attachment people have to Trump, and the cult of personality he's built. The man can simply do no wrong in their eyes, even when he's doing things that are blatantly absurd, like naming a female former news anchor with zero political experience as his VP.

Guys, we can do better, and we must. The next Republican President must be capable of wielding the full power of the Federal government and willing to use it ruthlessly to push our agenda. Trump has proven that he is either unwilling or unable to do so. Kari Lake is laughable to even consider. Ron DeSantis has demonstrated both willingness to use the full extent of his executive power and aptitude in doing so. He is the clear and obvious choice. The hour is late, and if there is any hope for reversing the tide against us we need a capable strongman in his prime, not an elderly, egomaniacal, self-serving bloviator more interested in settling scores than in doing what's best for the country.
 
Top