3 Questions on method, order and routine

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Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Aaaand I'm hurt again.
Right shoulder this time. Front deltoid I think. Same symptoms as before - fine during the workout but progressively more painful as the day went on. Getting dressed this morning wasn't any kind of fun.

I'm no doctor but if I had to take a guess I'd say it's part of the whole destroy-your-muscles-so-they-rebuild-stronger thing.
I'll keep you updated.
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Aaaand I'm hurt again.
Right shoulder this time. Front deltoid I think. Same symptoms as before - fine during the workout but progressively more painful as the day went on. Getting dressed this morning wasn't any kind of fun.

I'm no doctor but if I had to take a guess I'd say it's part of the whole destroy-your-muscles-so-they-rebuild-stronger thing.
I'll keep you updated.

It's very difficult to tell over the internet how serious something is, and I don't honestly have any previous experience with doing this, so I don't want to lead you down the path of injury. From the sounds of the last session where you reported you were hurt, it was just a case of having DOMS, as after training on the Friday you were pretty much fine by the Monday if I remember correctly. If you don't have a history of competitive sport, you may be unfamiliar with what it feels like just to be sore from pushing yourself, and injury.

This is actually more common than you think. In the army, it is regularly the case that the guys who drop out of the more grueling tests through 'injury' simply don't recognise the difference between discomfort from soreness that can be worked through, and actual acute injury requiring rest.

Rest up today and let's see where you are tomorrow. It's legs tomorrow, so if it is still bad you can just squat and deadlift and leave the upper body stuff alone.
 

Saweeep

 
Banned
I don't think I've ever had an injury; and I've had and broken just about every bit of me in my time that I haven't been aware of until later in the day.

I reckon this is just major soreness too.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I'm inclined to agree with the DOMS assessment. I'm doing much better today. Still a little sore but much more mobility.
Anyway, what's today's orders?
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Workout B report
Squats - 1x5 @ 40, 2m rest, 1x5 @ 45, 2m rest, 1x5 @ 50 I tried to keep going on the last set but I failed on rep 6
Backoff set - 1x6 @ 40, 15s, 1x3 @ 40, 15s, 1x3 @ 40
Stiff leg deads - 1x20 @ 35, 1x10 @ 35 I think my form was off here. Didn't feel so much of a pull on my hamstrings and there was more of a strain on my lower back. When I took a leak afterwards I was shaking from the core.
Chinups - 50 ~9 minutes
BW squats - 300 ~18 minutes


Week 5 workout B

Squats - [email protected], 1x5x45, [email protected]

Backoff set - AMRAP @ 40 Rest Pause

Stiff leg deads - [email protected]

Chinups - 3xAMRAP(3 sets to failure)

BW squats - 300 - get under 15 minutes here now. Push yourself.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Workout B report
Squats - [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected], 2:30 rest, [email protected], 3m rest
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] I'm not entirely sure why but I felt the need to do an additional rep on the last set after racking. So I did.
4m rest
Stiff leg deads - [email protected], 1:30 rest, [email protected]
Chinups - 1x13, 1x9, 1x7
5m rest
300 BW squats - 14:46

I feel like I embody the human contradiction right now. On one hand I feel a great sense of relief and pride at having set a new PB and completed your orders on time. On the other hand I worry about injuries and how much longer I can proceed at this rate before I break. There's some lashings of hate and appreciation mixed in there as well.
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Workout B report
Squats - [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected], 2:30 rest, [email protected], 3m rest
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] I'm not entirely sure why but I felt the need to do an additional rep on the last set after racking. So I did.
4m rest
Stiff leg deads - [email protected], 1:30 rest, [email protected]
Chinups - 1x13, 1x9, 1x7
5m rest
300 BW squats - 14:46

I feel like I embody the human contradiction right now. On one hand I feel a great sense of relief and pride at having set a new PB and completed your orders on time. On the other hand I worry about injuries and how much longer I can proceed at this rate before I break. There's some lashings of hate and appreciation mixed in there as well.

Trust in the process. If you do not, you should follow a program written by someone you do trust. I will not be offended, there are many excellent coaches with proven routines on the internet, all of whom are more experienced and qualified than me to handle programming.

That said, if you look back over your log, you will see that your weights do not simply increase week on week. If you have struggled with a weight, the weight has remained the same for the next session. Every time we have done that, you have added several reps to your top set PR. You will also notice that when you have been asked to push quite hard on some things, on assistance for that workout I have simply given you a target number of reps to allow you how best to modulate intensity, or a single all out set, or given you easier conditioning.

You are not being asked to make progress beyond the rate at which you are proving yourself capable of making that progress. Again, your idea of injury is likely the result of a lack of competitive sports, and a failure to understand the signals your body is sending you. Soreness, stiffness, musculature pain is perfectly normal. Acute pain or joint pain is not normal. Only you can decide which you have.

Beyond all of this, if you are worried, eat more and sleep more. That's not trite internet 'get swole brah' advice, it's genuine recovery advice. The more you are able to eat and sleep (add another glass of milk, or a protein shake), the quicker you will recover and adjust to the volume of training. I don't know you outside of the internet, but if you've never played competitive sport, and have always lifted like you did previously, then you are bound to have a steep learning curve with your body, that could last many months.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
H1N1 said:
Trust in the process. If you do not, you should follow a program written by someone you do trust. I will not be offended, there are many excellent coaches with proven routines on the internet, all of whom are more experienced and qualified than me to handle programming.

That said, if you look back over your log, you will see that your weights do not simply increase week on week. If you have struggled with a weight, the weight has remained the same for the next session. Every time we have done that, you have added several reps to your top set PR. You will also notice that when you have been asked to push quite hard on some things, on assistance for that workout I have simply given you a target number of reps to allow you how best to modulate intensity, or a single all out set, or given you easier conditioning.

You are not being asked to make progress beyond the rate at which you are proving yourself capable of making that progress. Again, your idea of injury is likely the result of a lack of competitive sports, and a failure to understand the signals your body is sending you. Soreness, stiffness, musculature pain is perfectly normal. Acute pain or joint pain is not normal. Only you can decide which you have.

Beyond all of this, if you are worried, eat more and sleep more. That's not trite internet 'get swole brah' advice, it's genuine recovery advice. The more you are able to eat and sleep (add another glass of milk, or a protein shake), the quicker you will recover and adjust to the volume of training. I don't know you outside of the internet, but if you've never played competitive sport, and have always lifted like you did previously, then you are bound to have a steep learning curve with your body, that could last many months.

I promised to commit for 12 weeks and I don't intend to back out.
If I did I'd be pretty much lost. Guess I'm a follower like that.
Proving myself capable.....huh. I might want to remember that.
And you're right, I never was the competitive sport kind. But I like to think I'm doing a job of changing that. At least in the lifting sense.

Now that I think about it, I know you said I'd be showing appreciation by following your orders but I don't actually think I've taken the time to say it.
So thanks for all you've done.

And apologies if I sounded pissy. That was the pain in the thighs. I might do well to keep away from the computer on afternoons after I've been to the gym.
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Workout C report
Military press - 1x5 @ 5, 1m rest, 1x5 @ 10, 2m rest, 1x7 @ 15, 2m rest
Backoff set - 1x11 @ 5, 15s, 1x6 @ 5, 15s, 1x4 @ 5
I'm not sure but I think my form might be faltering on those. Towards the end of my sets I'm pretty sure I was thrusting my pelvis forward and arching my back.
50 chinups
Rear delt raises - 1x20 @ 16 This one was getting a little easy so I took a minute and then upped the weights before doing another set 1x15 @ 20
50 burpees in 3 minutes


Week 5 Workout C

Military press - [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Backoff set - [email protected] rest pause
Chinups - Add weight - 5kgs - 3x5 reps
Rear delt raises - [email protected]
40 burpees with pressup and jump.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Workout C report
Military press - [email protected], 1m rest, [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected] Slight wobble on the last rep
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] A little leg bounce on the last couple of reps
Chinups - [email protected] My gym doesn't have the weight belt that you use to attach barbell weights to yourself so I had to improvise and hold a dumbbell between my feet.
Rear delt raises - [email protected]
5m rest
40 pressup & jump burpees - 6:00

The DOMS on my right shoulder seems to have passed.
Also I'm considering adding a stew into my meal rotation. Something with meat, veg and potatoes.
 

roberto

Pelican
Gold Member
I'm fucking loving this. H1N1, you are a true gent. Beers on me when we finally meet.

Hardy- keep it up. By posting your progress here for all to see you are holding yourself to account, and this is an excellent to make progress.

Inspirational stuff.
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Workout A report
Bench press - [email protected], 1m rest, [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected] I actually managed 7 on that last set but as I was grunting quite heavily a fellow gym goer jumped in to spot me as I was halfway through the return so I'm not counting it.
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] Tried for 3 on the last set and failed
DB rows - 6x20 @ 22 Same number of reps but I didn't fail on the second set this time. Failed at rep 12 of the 3rd set
Rear delt raises - [email protected], 10s, [email protected], 10s, [email protected], 10s, [email protected], 10s, [email protected]
25 burpees with pressup and jump - 4:30

Week 6 Workout A

Bench - [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] - Push yourself here. Ideally you'll get at least 8 reps.

Backoff set - AMRAP rest pause style - you got 13 reps last week, push for at least 15 this week.

DB rows - 3x20+ (each arm) - leave one or two reps in the tank but push each set as far as it'll go (within reason). If you can get more that 20 in a set, then do it. Start with your weaker arm first, and match the number of reps with your stronger arm, don't unbalance them by doing more with one arm.

Rear delt raises - [email protected] - I'm slightly concerned about how you're doing these, as your rest pause set last week was pretty unbelievable. Do not throw the weight up, or hitch your back, or anything like that. This should be a slow controlled movement from start to finish, one you could pause and reverse at any point throughout the rep.

Burpees - 30 in under 5 minutes.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Workout A report
Bench press - [email protected], 1m rest, [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected], 2m rest
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] I know the numbers here might make it seem like I was just aiming for your target but I really had to push to get them done.
DB rows - [email protected] for both sides. I failed at 2x15 and 3x13 on the right arm & 2x16 and 3x14 on the left arm.
Rear delt raises - [email protected] I went over my form and I think I know where I was going wrong - on the return I was clapping the weights together which must have been giving me a boost for the next rep. Anyway, I corrected it and took it down to about 1/2 speed - felt much more of a strain on the 3rd set.
30 burpees - You didn't say if you wanted a pressup and a jump with these but I decided to include them anyway. 4:40.
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Workout A report
Bench press - [email protected], 1m rest, [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected], 2m rest
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] I know the numbers here might make it seem like I was just aiming for your target but I really had to push to get them done.
DB rows - [email protected] for both sides. I failed at 2x15 and 3x13 on the right arm & 2x16 and 3x14 on the left arm.
Rear delt raises - [email protected] I went over my form and I think I know where I was going wrong - on the return I was clapping the weights together which must have been giving me a boost for the next rep. Anyway, I corrected it and took it down to about 1/2 speed - felt much more of a strain on the 3rd set.
30 burpees - You didn't say if you wanted a pressup and a jump with these but I decided to include them anyway. 4:40.

Rest more between your work sets for your main lifts if you need to. Think about what what you are trying to achieve with each lift (hint - I have explained all of this several times in detail in this thread. Intention is everything), and rest accordingly. The main lift is about increasing strength, if you need to rest 3-4 minutes between each set, do it, and make sure you are getting quality work in.

We need to find out what your bar weighs, can you ask an instructor at your gym? It appears that despite your slight build, you are benching BW for 8 reps, which is a quite reasonable level of strength. Are you bringing the bar to your chest with each rep? I'm not calling you out here at all, but it's important that I don't just increase the weights if you aren't handling it as well as it otherwise appears, because you'll end up getting stapled and hurting yourself.

With the rows, I specifically told you to work each side equally.

I always want a pressup and a jump with the burpees, without them it's a squat thrust or some other monstrosity. The burpee is a beautiful thing, and it has a pressup and a jump. Henceforth, all burpees will be done with a pressup and a jump.


Homework - if you haven't already, read all of Strikeback's thread on the training of the novice lifter.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
H1N1 said:
Rest more between your work sets for your main lifts if you need to. Think about what what you are trying to achieve with each lift (hint - I have explained all of this several times in detail in this thread. Intention is everything), and rest accordingly. The main lift is about increasing strength, if you need to rest 3-4 minutes between each set, do it, and make sure you are getting quality work in.

We need to find out what your bar weighs, can you ask an instructor at your gym? It appears that despite your slight build, you are benching BW for 8 reps, which is a quite reasonable level of strength. Are you bringing the bar to your chest with each rep? I'm not calling you out here at all, but it's important that I don't just increase the weights if you aren't handling it as well as it otherwise appears, because you'll end up getting stapled and hurting yourself.

With the rows, I specifically told you to work each side equally.

I always want a pressup and a jump with the burpees, without them it's a squat thrust or some other monstrosity. The burpee is a beautiful thing, and it has a pressup and a jump. Henceforth, all burpees will be done with a pressup and a jump.


Homework - if you haven't already, read all of Strikeback's thread on the training of the novice lifter.
I'll ask while I'm there this morning.
With the presses I always bring down to the chest just above nipple level and I do my best to make sure there's no bounce before fully extending the arm on return. Since I don't have a spotter it's all unassisted.
I think I misinterpreted your instructions. I thought you just wanted the same number of reps on each side but since my right seems to be slightly stronger than the left, I should have kept 2 in the tank to match my left instead of going to failure.
There's a lot of information in that thread. I'm going to have to re-read it a few more times before it all sinks in.

What's today's orders?
 

H1N1

Ostrich
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
Workout B report
Squats - [email protected], 2m rest, [email protected], 2:30 rest, [email protected], 3m rest
Backoff set - [email protected], 15s, [email protected], 15s, [email protected] I'm not entirely sure why but I felt the need to do an additional rep on the last set after racking. So I did.
4m rest
Stiff leg deads - [email protected], 1:30 rest, [email protected]
Chinups - 1x13, 1x9, 1x7
5m rest
300 BW squats - 14:46


Week 6 Workout B

Squats - [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] - rest accordingly, really I want you to hit 10 reps here at least.

Backoff set - [email protected] - at least 15 total reps, last week you did 12. If you have to do another set to get them, go for it.

Stiff leg deads - [email protected]

Chinups - BW +5kg - 5 sets x 3 reps

BW squats - 300 - Beat last week's time, try to get below 14 minutes.
 

Grad

Chicken
"investment to return ratio "

Do one set of chin ups. Reverse grip, slightly in from shoulders and crank out as many as you can.

Once you cannot pull yourself up any more. Do 3 negatives(get you self up to the top position by standing on something). Then lower yourself as slow as possible. Dont do more than 3 negatives. The damage to the biceps will be immense.

This will be your gateway to bigger arms fast.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
Workout B report
Squats - [email protected], 3m rest, [email protected], 4m rest, [email protected], 4m rest
Backoff set - [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] I think my rest pauses were a little longer here. Probably closer to 30s.
Stiff leg deads - [email protected]
Chinups - [email protected] More awkward than difficult. As tall as I am I still had trouble clasping the dumbbell before starting each set.
BW squats - 300. I was a little fucked off here. Finished the first 5 sets in 6 minutes. After 8 I had about 2:30 left before 14 minutes were up but then I was shooed away because a ladies class was about to start so I was put off my pace. I finished all 300 but I really wanted to see if I could have improved or at least matched my time
.
I spoke to several guys and 2 staff members yesterday. None could give me a definite answer but the general consensus was that the bar weighs 20kg.

I've got a lot on tomorrow so can I get my orders today please.
 
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