33 Things Christian Men Should Know About Women

Roosh

Cardinal
Orthodox
Originally posted on RooshV.com

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A common lament from chaste Orthodox men I meet is their lack of experience in dealing with women who are more socialized than them. How can these men understand women, identify one with strong faith, and make confident decisions concerning marriage? As an unmarried middle-aged man, I stress to them how I’m not in a better situation, but they nonetheless feel that I can give them profitable lessons in their quest to enter an Orthodox marriage due to my excessive secular experience.

I have tried to be thoughtful about what I’m about to share so as not to interfere with God’s will in bringing together man and woman in one flesh within the Church sacrament of marriage, because most of my experiences with women took place sinfully outside of marriage, causing me to lose all manner of healthy child-like innocence when viewing the opposite sex. I do not consider myself bitter, but I am surely cynical from partaking in behaviors that went against the commandments of God for so many years. If you perceive undue pessimism or even anger in my words, it is due to the damage I inflicted upon myself, not because God made a mistake in how he constructed man or woman. If you participate in evil for a prolonged period of time, you will carry distorted views of reality even long after repentance.

It could be possible that a secular woman you have feelings for will possess every negative trait I’m about to describe. When a woman lacks spiritual life, she does not struggle against her passions and sins, or even think they are wrong. On the other hand, the Orthodox women I’ve met and observed possess at least a basic desire for moral goodness, and will automatically be more suitable for marriage. However, some Orthodox women are more zealous than others, and they all swim in a putrid secular fishbowl. The tainted water corrupts us without our conscious awareness, and so it’s not uncommon for an Orthodox woman to possess deep-seated secular beliefs that can strain a marriage. You must be discerning when it comes to identifying any beliefs that would be detrimental to maintaining a Christian family home.

I will often use the secular word “game” in this article. Game is a collection of psychological and behavioral techniques to attract a woman physically and emotionally for the purpose of fornication and fleshly pair bonding. Game includes: approaching an unknown woman in a public place while play-acting as a confident man, optimizing one’s aesthetic so that it pleases worldly woman, using salesman techniques of rapport building and scarcity to make a fast “sale,” hiding flaws while showcasing strengths, deliberately pumping up a woman’s emotions, lying, omitting the truth, putting a woman in a negative state of anxiety or dread to modulate her attractive feelings, and exploiting a woman’s human weaknesses for selfish gain.

In the game process, God is absent, and the primary goal of the man is to satisfy his selfish craving for positive female attention, worldly love, and physical pleasure. Even if you claim to desire abstinence before marriage, you can still be using game by implementing secular techniques to meet women, get their phone number, arrange dates, and so on. A sign you are not using game is if you adhere to the old cliché “be yourself,” where yourself is a child of God who follows His commandments with the understanding that marriage is a sacrament whose purpose is to usher two souls into heaven. The Christian way is to trust in God to pair you with a woman who is on your social and spiritual level instead of pretending to be an alpha male to deceive a woman into liking you using mostly physical and psychological means.

That said, here is a list of general guidance for men who want to pick the right woman for marriage in an Orthodox courtship where the man clearly expresses to the woman beforehand that no intimacy can take place until they are united in one flesh through the Church sacrament of marriage.

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White Pill Expat

 
Banned
Orthodox
Game, as I see it, is a tool, value neutral, to foster social interaction; so it might better be understood as charisma.

Is the takeaway here that men should be gameless because game is inherently evil, even if it could be used as a tool to meet women?

Something that I've found as a church-going christian is that women often use church as a tool to game men, and that men are often unaware of the fact that they're being gamed. In fact, in many christian denominations, especially in the US, the churches and the leadership either passively or actively condone women gaming men in the church, and men are clueless to that fact.
 

rodion

Robin
Orthodox
Game, as I see it, is a tool, value neutral, to foster social interaction; so it might better be understood as charisma.

Is the takeaway here that men should be gameless because game is inherently evil, even if it could be used as a tool to meet women?

Something that I've found as a church-going christian is that women often use church as a tool to game men, and that men are often unaware of the fact that they're being gamed. In fact, in many christian denominations, especially in the US, the churches and the leadership either passively or actively condone women gaming men in the church, and men are clueless to that fact.

I don’t think game is merely charisma. It’s tapping into and manipulating womens fallen natures. It’s about short-term sexual gratification and approval, which isn’t something that is likely to lead to an orthodox marriage.

I think there is some worth in having “red pill knowledge” as it gives you a better idea of red flags and so on than a more naive convert. But you shouldn’t be using emotional manipulation and shortcuts, you should trust in God.

Confidence and speaking to women isn’t the same as game.
 

White Pill Expat

 
Banned
Orthodox
^^Game is a social skill, but more specifically aimed at women. It's value neutral, if you use it to have sex, that's on you. Even dating/ courting is to be understood as a dating game with it's own peculiarities and rituals.

Game teaches, cold approach, confidence, conversation skills, openers, etc. It's red pill social knowledge, and again it's value neutral, just as sales skills are learning charisma are value neutral. If you use them for bad ends, then that's the result of what you've done purposely, not on the tool that you used. Some game to meet women, others game to maximize casual sex. Some religious people game to build attraction or to get married.
 

Doraemon

Pigeon
Other Christian
Thank you for this expansive article, coincidentally yesterday I just posted question on the courtship and relationships subforum regarding what should we do to meet a woman.

In the game process, God is absent, and the primary goal of the man is to satisfy his selfish craving for positive female attention, worldly love, and physical pleasure. Even if you claim to desire abstinence before marriage, you can still be using game by implementing secular techniques to meet women, get their phone number, arrange dates, and so on. A sign you are not using game is if you adhere to the old cliché “be yourself,” where yourself is a child of God who follows His commandments with the understanding that marriage is a sacrament whose purpose is to usher two souls into heaven. The Christian way is to trust in God to pair you with a woman who is on your social and spiritual level instead of pretending to be an alpha male to deceive a woman into liking you using mostly physical and psychological means.
Now I finally understand what Roosh meant by not using game to attract women. Just think of the time of our parents and grandparents, do they lift, study red pill materials, and be an alpha male to attract a woman? In this modern time we should not need to use game but through the mindset of be the best version of ourselves. Even then it should come from the context of developing the talents that God give us, not from pride and vanity.

7-8. Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. In what has preceded the Lord has commanded us to do great and difficult things. Here He shows us how these things can be accomplished: through unceasing prayer. For He said, "Ask," that is, "keep asking," meaning, "ask continuously." [my emphasis] For He did not say, "Ask one time." Then He affirms what He has said by an example from everyday life.
The passage above is taken from Akaky's post in another thread.

I think from now on I will do the following to meet a woman in the future:
  1. Pray to God without cease and trust God that He will give what's best for me. Also try to have consistent prayer rule and actively attend church.
  2. Get rid of sins and vices in me such as stop looking at images and videos of women, cutting back on video games, stop being a glutton, etc.
  3. Optimize the talents that God gave me, such as reading more books, get better education, lifting weights, have hobbies and try to excel at it, learning new languages, etc.
  4. If I do meet with a woman just act normal and trust in God whatever the outcome. Without thinking about red pill materials, being an alpha male, or game.
 

rodion

Robin
Orthodox
Thank you for this expansive article, coincidentally yesterday I just posted question on the courtship and relationships subforum regarding what should we do to meet a woman.


Now I finally understand what Roosh meant by not using game to attract women. Just think of the time of our parents and grandparents, do they lift, study red pill materials, and be an alpha male to attract a woman? In this modern time we should not need to use game but through the mindset of be the best version of ourselves. Even then it should come from the context of developing the talents that God give us, not from pride and vanity.


The passage above is taken from Akaky's post in another thread.

I think from now on I will do the following to meet a woman in the future:
  1. Pray to God without cease and trust God that He will give what's best for me. Also try to have consistent prayer rule and actively attend church.
  2. Get rid of sins and vices in me such as stop looking at images and videos of women, cutting back on video games, stop being a glutton, etc.
  3. Optimize the talents that God gave me, such as reading more books, get better education, lifting weights, have hobbies and try to excel at it, learning new languages, etc.
  4. If I do meet with a woman just act normal and trust in God whatever the outcome. Without thinking about red pill materials, being an alpha male, or game.

Placing women on a pedestal, as many secular men do, is placing them where God should be. Unbeknownst to many, we are all drawn toward salvation and many seek consolation in relationships or careers etc

Placing God at the centre of your life and having your primary focus being your duty toward Christ prevents this from happening
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
This is a great set of guidelines. I think, maybe the only thing I disagree with is that a woman's best feature being their attractiveness is only acceptable if they worked really hard not to be obese or ugly. I would hate to not be obese and ugly anymore and someone think the things about my character I have had to cultivate by years lacking conventional beauty were less valuable than how I look.

After reading this, I did contact the Father who is meant to be responsible for managing the southern diocese to find out which Orthodox churches in the rural south are actually open. One is meant to be forty minutes from my house, but no one answers the phone or returns emails from them.
I also went to Resaca to see the female ROCOR monastery a couple of weeks ago, but aside from a Let's Go Brandon sandwich board beside the road with half the letters blown off and a poorly managed lawn, grape vines that were abandoned and covered in pine straw, and a cemetery with the first Orthodox crosses I've ever seen irl, I saw no signs of life. It looked very much like the same bricks were used to build our family's houses, and The Guido Gardens Evangelical Society that were used on that mountain top in Resaca. Yellow sand-clay bricks. But the monastery was not being cared for properly. It would be a full time job or mission to manage that absolutely beautiful property.
There are lists and contacts for many places that are no longer open, but in looking, I found that the head of the entity responsible for managing which orthodox churches are open was an OCA "Rev" in Alabama. I offered to make them an up to date GIS map because I did tourism trails for local rural areas (typically near industrial spaces on railroad lines) during college.
 

AdorationoftheCross

Sparrow
Woman
Orthodox
1.Compromise

If a woman is not willing to compromise, then all hope is lost.

2. Family dynamics

If she is not able to submit to her parents, you have a spoiled brat.

3.Disney/pop culture obsession

Childish women get away with a lot these days, don't be their surrogate father. Anime? Kpop? This is her religion. Not whatever she says she believes in!

I have been around all three with their "guard down". They don't love anyone but themselves. Genuine godly women are not as flashy, cute or fun but will not cheat or emasculate you. They won't complain about you to their girlfriends.
 

Bird

Ostrich
Catholic
@Roosh, you wrote:
"To avoid this problem, you should find a wife who wants or has agreed to do the things you want a wife to do. These conversations must be had before you get married. If you want a wife who cooks and cleans, you must inquire if she is willing to do these things (better if she already does them) and then verify her words."

How can you verify her words if you talk about (future) housework during courtship?
Since a Christian man does not live in the same house with his future wife before marriage, I do not see how verification would work.

Question: Which bible did you use in this article?
 

Towgunner

Kingfisher
On item #11 (Beautiful women live in another world). This is very true. I like math and probabilities; they have the ability to cut through the bull and get to the point. Women are just as susceptible to value distributions as men. Yes, there are notable exceptions that differ between men and women, because, men and women are different. For instance, IQ in women concentrates around the mean average, so, less completely stupid females (left tail end) and less highly intelligent females (right tail end), whereas, males are more widely distributed along this scale. In terms of looks or, if you will, a composite sexual attractiveness quotient, I'm unaware of any concentrations around means etc, but, regardless, just like anything else desirable, for every attractive female, there are several more unattractive ones, and even more when you include the average cohort. Attractive females get endless perks and, perhaps most of all, attention. How does this make the unattractive or average female feel? Well, they feel dismayed over this, and then what? They succumb to jealousy and envy and become disillusioned with, what they'll say is "the system" or "society", thus, they end up creating things like feminism and ardently support things like "equality". This is some vain attempt to obtain parity with their attractive counterparts, but its futile. Enough time passes being left out and treated poorly by others, namely their female peers, but of course, men, and they're ripe for radical ideas that aim to burn the world down. This is how feminists are made.
 

messaggera

Pelican
Woman
Other Christian
I would hate to not be obese and ugly anymore and someone think the things about my character I have had to cultivate by years lacking conventional beauty were less valuable than how I look.

There is a kind of shame that brings about sin, and there is a kind of shame that brings good reputation in favor.
Sirach 4:21

Your stated observation about yourself @PineTreeFarmer could be seen as a shame that brings glory and favor in humility.

As where one who shames another’s individual sin (obesity / gluttony) by gossiping, with insolent and malice comments followed by hollow concerns of prayer and thoughts, is no different than the crass and arrogant Pharisees found in Luke 18:9-14; who goes to the temple to pray.

This female lacks integrity and humility, and she brings shame upon her own soul.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
There is a kind of shame that brings about sin, and there is a kind of shame that brings good reputation in favor.
Sirach 4:21

Your stated observation about yourself @PineTreeFarmer could be seen as a shame that brings glory and favor in humility.

As where one who shames another’s individual sin (obesity / gluttony) by gossiping, with insolent and malice comments followed by hollow concerns of prayer and thoughts, is no different than the crass and arrogant Pharisees found in Luke 18:9-14; who goes to the temple to pray.

This female lacks integrity and humility, and she brings shame upon her own soul.
Shame got lost somewhere in the South. We need prayer and better directions. I appreciate the feedback and will definitely keep these things in mind.

We spend a lot more time concentrating on how Great God's faithfulness is here than worrying about humility. I guess it's a denominational difference.
 
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TooFineAPoint

Pelican
Protestant
Placing women on a pedestal, as many secular men do, is placing them where God should be. Unbeknownst to many, we are all drawn toward salvation and many seek consolation in relationships or careers etc

Placing God at the centre of your life and having your primary focus being your duty toward Christ prevents this from happening
This is a very good point.

Placing anything not-God on a pedestal is also often called "neediness". True "Game" (I describe Game in a different way than Roosh does), boils down to a few primary principles, one of which is not being needy, or being outcome-independent.

A man who treated his body like a temple, took his work seriously, and cultivated hobbies with a higher purpose... while not giving out love and respect cheaply and easily to women without a thorough vetting... well that would immediately aid his fortunes with women. If not in finding a good wife, at the very least in not having his time or energy wasted by one with poor intentions.
 

OrthodoxMimi

 
Banned
Woman
Orthodox
"In the minds of the men who are orbiting around your woman, they may view the friendship as an investment where one day they can cash in with an instance of sin."

When does she become "your woman"? In the talking stage? In the dating stage? The girlfriend stage? The engagement stage? Or when you two actually get married?

I practice rotational dating. It's not spinning plates or rotational sex, strictly dating only. The reason I do this is because for 4 years from the age of 21 to 25 I was strung along by an Orthodox man who I wanted to marry and who I thought wanted to marry me. It looked like it was going in that direction but he never fully proposed, only kept me as his "girlfriend" and said he wanted marriage too when I said that is what I wanted. Kept making excuses about why we were still boyfriend and girlfriend but he hadn't formally proposed and we never became engaged. Four long years. Finally I had to cut it off when I realized he would never marry or if he did, it would be when we were in our 30s and he felt "ready".

Never again will I become somebody's "girlfriend".

It took me about a year to recover from the heartbreak and when I finally re-entered the dating scene I saw that nobody was ready to commit to an engagement. Then a friend of mine put me on to rotational dating as taught by Mina on Youtube who comes from a conservative immigrant background and approaches dating as a rotation of serious marriage-minded men, not "boyfriends".

How it works is we make it clear from the get-go that we are dating with the purpose of finding a husband only. We vet men who are marriage minded and include them in our rotation with the understanding that we will not become anyone's exclusive girlfriend but keep dating until we get a proposal. If we accept someone's proposal only then will we cut off the other men on rotation and become immediately engaged to the man who's proposal we accept. No prolonged girlfriend/boyfriend period. No stringing along. We go from rotational dating to engagement to marriage. This saves us from wasting time and fertility years in the No Man's Land of "girlfriend status".

If a man is really serious about us and doesn't want us to be rotationally vetting and dating other men along with him, he can propose marriage and become a fiancee and then a husband - all under a year's time.
 
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OrthodoxMimi

 
Banned
Woman
Orthodox
Roosh, admin or moderator: How can I post in the comment's section under this blog on the RooshV website. I'm not really a forum type person but I posted my above comment here because posting at website did not work.

Regarding the woman who said eating meat is bad for the environment, well if we are strictly following Orthodoxy we are eating plant based/vegan practically half the year anyway. If the whole world ate like we did, then it wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that due to the sin of gluttony large scale factory farming of animals is bad for them and the environment because land has to be used to grow grains to feed the animals to feed the human gluttony instead of just feeding humans directly. So land is taken to grow animals' grains, and then more land is taken to grow human grains. So much land means deforestation. All this could be extremely limited if the world fasted and ate like Orthodox Christians. I'm not against people hunting wild game, but large scale factory farming and slaughter houses are horrific for animals and bad for the environment. That's just facts, has nothing to do with politics or "liberal, left, woke, whatever". People have known this for centuries. Orthodox Christians have been speaking and writing on these issues long before they became political.
 
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OrthodoxMimi

 
Banned
Woman
Orthodox
I'm an average looking woman who's always had a few incredibly beautiful friends here and there. I was never jealous. Sure, they get some perks (it's not endless though, come on) but they are human like the rest of us and suffer from self-doubt, self-esteem issues, depression, anxiety, etc, just like everybody else out here. If you make friends with people who you think have it all, you discover they are just like you and develop empathy for them.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
"In the minds of the men who are orbiting around your woman, they may view the friendship as an investment where one day they can cash in with an instance of sin."

When does she become "your woman"? In the talking stage? In the dating stage? The girlfriend stage? The engagement stage? Or when you two actually get married?

I practice rotational dating. It's not spinning plates or rotational sex, strictly dating only. The reason I do this is because for 4 years from the age of 21 to 25 I was strung along by an Orthodox man who I wanted to marry and who I thought wanted to marry me. It looked like it was going in that direction but he never fully proposed, only kept me as his "girlfriend" and said he wanted marriage too when I said that is what I wanted. Kept making excuses about why we were still boyfriend and girlfriend but he hadn't formally proposed and we never became engaged. Four long years. Finally I had to cut it off when I realized he would never marry or if he did, it would be when we were in our 30s and he felt "ready".

Never again will I become somebody's "girlfriend".

It took me about a year to recover from the heartbreak and when I finally re-entered the dating scene I saw that nobody was ready to commit to an engagement. Then a friend of mine put me on to rotational dating as taught by Mina on Youtube who comes from a conservative immigrant background and approaches dating as a rotation of serious marriage-minded men, not "boyfriends".

How it works is we make it clear from the get-go that we are dating with the purpose of finding a husband only. We vet men who are marriage minded and include them in our rotation with the understanding that we will not become anyone's exclusive girlfriend but keep dating until we get a proposal. If we accept someone's proposal only then will we cut off the other men on rotation and become immediately engaged to the man who's proposal we accept. No prolonged girlfriend/boyfriend period. No stringing along. We go from rotational dating to engagement to marriage. This saves us from wasting time and fertility years in the No Man's Land of "girlfriend status".

If a man is really serious about us and doesn't want us to be rotationally vetting and dating other men along with him, he can propose marriage and become a fiancee and then a husband - all under a year's time.
My dad was a huge advocate of a one year limit on dating policy. He and my mother had many happy years of marriage, marrying one another after three months time.

That said, where is the part where you genuinely fall in love with anyone if you never really have your heart broken a few times? I guess you just, don't really ever fall in love with one another, but you choose to remain obedient together?

And I love the idea of tonnes of foreign wives in the US!! Our gene pools need some diversity.
 
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