These are extreme cases and not based on reality.
33 Things Christian Men Should Know About Women
- Thread starter Roosh
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So if she's fat, that's a whole lotta icing on a cake nobody wanted to eat anyway.
But is there some other generally negative attribute we can stick in those blanks up there that would make this woman sound in any way tolerable?
It's just such a hilariously loaded juxtaposition.
Like, she's just a HORRIBLE PERSON, and the clincher is supposed to be that she's fat?
Cool story, who is it about? I will tell you for the last time that you have wildly misinterpreted much (most? all?) of what I have said, and for the first time (and also the last time) that I have no interest in explaining myself to you further. Cheers!
You are ego tripping so hard you can't play a hypothetical thought experiment to empathize with men and some dating struggles we deal with on the daily. I even asked you nicely. Pretty please! And then I explained to you how common or stereotypical these situations are for most men navigating the dating market. I did this to illustrate that most men find the fat obese women the least attractive of the three. Of course you don't want to play the game, because then you'd have to admit that you too would say "next" to the fat woman, because it's the worst option, other things equal.
Another one sentence hit-and-run post from you, which shows yet again, that you're engaging in bad faith, and unwilling to: one, be empathetic with what men deal with in dating; two, be realistic about how things work in terms of gender dynamics; three: how much of a massive turn off fat women are compared other seeming "defects" that plenty of other women have.
You appeared very biased. I did not feel it was worth a long reply, Option three is the worst of course. you said "she expresses no contrition for being overweight and has a bad attitude. She blames everyone else for being fat. She thinks she's entitled to a fit man, who makes good money and has a college degree, and she wants him to treat her as a princess. She tells you about all these expectations on a first date, coffeeshop..."
If you really met a woman like this, then run from her. Ok????
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So now you say my scenario is bunk, but it sounds like anything that you're upset about how I framed this hypothetical; key takeways from this experiment:
1) Initially, before you played the game, with my stipulations and amazing fiction writing with descriptive language, you said druggie and casual sex encounter chick were way worse options than a chick 20lbs overweight. Now you say option three sounds pretty bad. Why?
2) Key point: scenario three has some inbuilt personality traits of fat chicks that i've noticed, say compared to other chicks on the dating market. (ask other guys for input here if you don't believe me.) YES, the fat chick is a bad option. But it goes beyond the fatness, the fat chick has intrinsic personality traits that are correlated with the fatness that make the fatness on the whole just way more unappealing. It is a chicken vs egg scenario. Which caused which, or do they just kinda coexist synergistically? Does she have bad personality and attitude b/c she's fat. Or because she has bad attitude and personality traits, that made her fat? There's clearly some correlation but we could talk about causality all day. The fact remains: all these fat chicks have attitude and personality problems. So, you get fat chick and you get the attitude. It's a package deal. And this is what happens on the dating market with fat chicks.
3) you're appalled by my framing of scenario three: because you realize there's a ton of truth to it; ie, where there's smoke there's almost always fire.
4) did you learn anything from this exercise? Do you see why warning bells go off for men when scenario three happens? it happens quite a lot in real life for men. We as men have to use heuristics to gauge partner suitability. In these circumstances we make assumptions or make mental shortcuts to expedite the "judgement" process, or, "assessing compatibility" process. Yes, we are disgusted by the fatness, but we also realize that these fat women usually have intrinsic personality characteristics, of which we can't determine causality, which jeopardize our long-term mating strategy. Another useful example is a woman who like 38 years old and a careerist with no kids and no marriage. She might be GREAT, but we make some mental calculations and logical jumps and say "bad match" because the women is in most circumstances just not that fertile, and has been unable to find a partner for some reason for these 18 years as an adult. Another example, women like wealth in men, and status, because it indicates the man (in the eyes of the woman) isn't a deadbeat and could provide for children and wife and very likely has a high level of competentness and industriousness, key traits in childrearing and provisioning and safety.
See what I said above, but TLDR: men rely on mental heuristics to determine suitability of partners, many times physical sight or external/internal indicators of health/ well being. Attitude/mindset/personality is one. A woman being fat tells us she has a bad mental headspace. A bad attitude on a fat woman tells us she's a bad bet for reproducing because she might have some internal problems that are causing these external problems. Fat women usually have messed-up headspace, so we usually see the fat woman as a toxic option because there are usually multiple red flags that coexist.
Criminals often say only break one law at time. It puts you at less risk of having encounters with police. And this maxim makes a lot of sense. If you're doing something wrong, make sure it's just one thing instead of multiple things simultaneous. Men are very forgiving generally, and willing to look past flaws. But fatness is such a bad physical/ mental state, that we're forced to conclude "women should only have one red flag at a time." It's a judgmental shortcut we have to take to continually evaluate options, but usually the gut feeling, or the shortcut so to speak, usually is a pretty accurate rule of thumb.
Women do this stuff all the time when looking at partners. And as men, we're just like, "ok that's what women want, it sucks, they make split-second judgments, and it's not fair, but we'll do everything we can to outcompete other men, to have a shot. Can't get caught in the feels forever"
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A survey of fat women was taken. They asked them if they would rather be fat or blind. Most of them said they would rather be blind. The reason they gave was because if you are blind then people want to help you. People who fat-shame have no compassion. It is not a very Christian thing to do.
Gluttony is a major sin…
Then maybe we should try helping them and maybe we should pray for them.
We should pray for them. But they have to help themselves also. They’re not idiots.
TLDR: another quick one paragraph hit and run post from you, after I explained my points and the logic of many men trying to find a LTR, with no good faith engagement from you. Tangential point, then, "fat shaming bad". You do you. I guess it's working for you. Deflect on responsibility front. Deflect on the dangerousness of the lifestyle-- very dangerous, not just to you, but also the potential kids. Make the person telling the objective truth feel bad, and then tell them that they're shaming... They're not. They're trying to tell you their perspective which is pretty reflective of the male population at large. Completely duck on the point made about how fat women's personalities are usually an equal or even bigger turnoff than the fatness itself. You're just proving my point. These points are deeply damaging to the female ego, but if you're empathetic, you can see how behavior and external traits might come off to a potential mate. Being empathetic or using the logic of someone else might be the thing that really helps you. But dang, this advice is unpleasant and hurtful to the ego. This is what happens when men try to level with women. This is why men shirk away from it because the woman takes it as a personal affront and gets emotional. You can do you, but you have to understand how you come off to others...
If you're going to be the hypothetical mother to my kids I will have to fat shame you if I date you, assuming I were to take that gamble, your life is at risk because of this very dire health condition with a horrible long term prognosis. Otherwise the relationship won't work out and there will be no kids. First impressions matter and gluttony is a pretty big no-no. The world is cruel and humans are very judgemental people, but as i explained previously we can forgo the judgment if someone is willing to mature and fess-up to their personal shortcomings, take responsibility, and do something about it.Being spiritually and emotionally and logically immature is a pretty big problem to surmount, and fat shaming is one way for a woman or man to very quickly grow up. Either you want the outstretched hand of help, or you want to be alone, or who knows maybe you're so strong yourself you can loose the obesity thru sheer willpower and mental "self-hypnosis" or self affirmation, or whatever you want to call it.
What do you think happens to Navy SEALs in their training? Do they get kind words of encouragement whispered seductively, or do the training leaders just yell at them that they're another warm body, that is easily replaceable? There is a method to this madness and it's called school of hard knocks.
This convo isn't even about fat-shaming, we're talking about why men aren't attracted to fat women. I say over and over fat women have bad attitudes and thus refuse to take responsibility. You yourself prove this, and go off on tangents to shame me for leveling with you about why your lifestyle is objectively unattractive to most men In other words fat women have multiple red flags. If you were like, bro, for me to date you, I'd like for you to have a college degree, be funny, and have a 40k per year job, i'd understand. Cool, most women want that or more than that, that's the way it is, life isn't fair blah blah blah, but life moves on, and I know a ton of women think that way... There's no reason for me to get emotionally hurt, that's just the way things are. Take responsibility and move-on. Why can't you see that one of the only things that humans are innately blessed with is their own agency and free will? Women who are perpetual victims are unattractive and low energy. Not fun to be around, superficial, worldy, deluded, weak in a bad way. A burden in fact... Fat women are a bad bet for men, and a "next" for me.
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I am 5'6" and I've never have been over 130 lbs, I am currently at 120 now, but I go up and down at times, and no one has ever called me fat or unattractive, so I do not know what you are talking about. I exercise regularly and eat a mainly plant based diet.
This convo exchange/ thread is so convoluted I wasn't meaning that you yourself were fat-- my bad, my mistake apologies for the oversight-- i was referring to the other chick, who keeps going back and forth with me ad naseum. However all the stuff I said about fat-shaming I stand by.
This thread has devolved into a protestant facebook group chat.
If you want to drop weight I have the secret which is also approved by God himself - referenced many times in the Bible.
Stop putting food into your mouth for a while. Put only water. There will be many benefits.
The 34th thing Christian men should know about women is that they will argue around a point for the sake of the talking rather than truth discovery.
If you want to drop weight I have the secret which is also approved by God himself - referenced many times in the Bible.
Stop putting food into your mouth for a while. Put only water. There will be many benefits.
The 34th thing Christian men should know about women is that they will argue around a point for the sake of the talking rather than truth discovery.
My point is that they need encouragement, not shaming. I am currently dating a guy that is overweight. Since I met him, he has joined a gym, started eating healthier and has lost almost 10 lbs. A little encouragement goes a long way, and it works much better than shaming.
^I'm not suggesting a dude enter into a relationship and just explicitly fat shame a chick repeatedly, obviously that is excessive and poor form. More just like subtle encouragement or acknowledgment that you're there to help and go through it together.
I'm not interested in debating but I'd like to point out (since you keep bringing up this point) the height increase in Americans from that time to now. Men back then were much shorter, as were women. A 5'7" woman weighing 160 doesn't look bad, granted, of course, that she has a decent fat/muscle ratio. I'm 5'6" and my healthy BMI range is 118(I think?)-158. A 5'7" woman's top-end healthy weight (using BMI) is 159, with 160 making her one pound overweight.
It has nothing to do with height differences between now and 50 years ago, source:
One inch in height change over 60 years is quite small as a percentage increase, it's only about a 1.5 percentage point increase. If we assume height/ weight increases are proportional, we'd get a weight increase to be expected of about 142.1 pounds for the present. Which is nothing, instead we got a weight increase of 28 pounds, fully 27 lbs more than would be reasonably expected...
Fat-shaming helped me. Fat-shaming saved my life.
I sought it out for myself in various ways through carefully selected readings, because nobody in my circles was willing to do it for me at the time when I was finally in a good position to devote a substantial chunk of my time/energy/focus to diet and fitness (no longer working 40+ hours per week and paying all the bills, no longer stuck in chairs nursing babies).
The sort of encouragement people offer when they are dancing around the issue of fatness because they've been conditioned to see it as taboo, couched in sentiments like "you shouldn't call yourself fat, you're very pretty" (I didn't say I was ugly, I said I was fat) never helped me.
Reinforcing "fat = bad" to myself, in many various ways, helps.
A lot of people were ruffled over the fact that I was "being mean to myself" when I set out to lose weight as a young mom. BUT IT WORKED.
These days, having a husband who is unafraid to playfully call me "saddlebags" (well before I ever reach the point where my weight affects marital intimacy), and who NEVER spits disingenuous lines about being "fine the way I am," helps me.
If people actually take what I write at literal face value instead of skimming and jumping to convenient-but-incorrect conclusions... which are based on common arguments and criticisms they are used to hearing from other people, and have pulled up from memory and falsely attributed to me in order to have something to argue against, in lieu of reading critically, seeking clarification, and comprehending... they will find that I do not and have never condoned obesity, and have always been pro-fat-shaming.
It's funny to me, because this is more like some kind of low-key cultural/language barrier than disagreement over principle - where people get all riled up because I will use certain words and phrases in perfectly literal and correct ways to convey an idea... but based on their perspectives and the deeply ingrained expectations and associations they've built over many years of dealing with common people who explore ideas and use language in a very different way than I do, they take a mental shortcut and project what they EXPECT me to be saying (based on the fact that I'm a woman, based on the fact that I unwittingly used a word or phrase that "usually implies" something I'm unaware of, etc.) onto their interpretation/translation of what I have said or written.
I'm quite used to it (don't know if I am actually autistic or if it's just because I literally grew up in something like a bubble... or a cave... or under a rock), and I have no problem exploring, explaining, and further clarifying my thoughts and ideas to people who seem to want to understand them.
People who are seeking an argument seemingly for the sake of arguing, and who aggressively hit the ground running with all of their assumptions, and who appear to be engaged in a sort of academic grandstanding to demonstrate their textbook-redpill-knowledge, using all the vocabulary words, covering all the key concepts and data points from the recent chapters, etc., and demonstrating for the class how good they are at arguing... against something I never said or implied... should find someone else to argue with, who is actually saying and implying those things that they want to argue against.
Editing to add: for those who think they are experts on picking out exactly what I am implying, but then read where I say "20-30 pounds left to go until I'm down to a good weight" and think it implies that I am "doing nothing," and "condoning obesity" rather than what it actually means and implies, which is that I have been and am in the ongoing process of slimming down... Come on, fhqwhgads.
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We don't know what various events that would trigger an individual to repent. It's a matter of seeing your sin and hating it. The whole purpose of the Christian life is to see properly, hate your sin, and do better, and you, and everything around you will be better for it. And we have to be truthful about it, otherwise, how can you be sure that you recognize what you're dealing with, and if you're not doing that, what's the point in talking at all? It's not to say you should be blunt, some people need some sugar coating to swallow bitter medicine.
"The Lord is King, He is clothed with majesty." (Psalm 91) It's the same thing from another point of view as we glorify Him that takes up the cross and overcomes the deceitful devil, and if we are to be "Christians", (slaves of Christ) we do as our master does.
@NotLARPing you're conflating Kitty's and TMarie's and acting as if it's the same person. I find Kitty's posts to be entirely reasonable, while wholeheartedly disagreeing with TMarie.