33 Things Christian Men Should Know About Women

Kentucky Gent

Robin
Catholic
Except for rare exceptions, large age gaps only work in a traditional society. It doesn't work when people of both sexes fritter away their youth. Men can't do that and then expect to get a young woman and be able to build a family with her.
Most men are not "frittering away their youth". They want to get married, but it is not on the table for them because most young and even 30+ year-old women are more interested in their careers and sleeping around with bad boys.

Getting married young is still on the culture menu for women, and probably always will be. But it is not a menu option for young men anymore.
Today, men and women both are forming bad habits
No, women are forming bad habits, men are just searching for options that are actually available to them, instead of the pipe dream of marrying young and having a big family, which is denied to them because of the choices of women.
 

EntWife

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
Most men are not "frittering away their youth". They want to get married, but it is not on the table for them because most young and even 30+ year-old women are more interested in their careers and sleeping around with bad boys.

Getting married young is still on the culture menu for women, and probably always will be. But it is not a menu option for young men anymore.

No, women are forming bad habits, men are just searching for options that are actually available to them, instead of the pipe dream of marrying young and having a big family, which is denied to them because of the choices of women.
Both sexes absolutely are frittering away their youth. I've got eyes to see what is happening around me, even if people online say something different.

You should hear my husband talk about the men around here who lay around and expect their girlfriends to support them and the children. Then they break up and move in with someone else. The children are living with various unrelated people who both mom and dad bring into their households. There's often drugs involved.

Most of the women aren't angels either.

Both men and women are living like there's no tomorrow, as if their lives are an endless today. Many of them seem incapable of connecting their behavior with the consequences of that behavior.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
Most men are not "frittering away their youth". They want to get married, but it is not on the table for them because most young and even 30+ year-old women are more interested in their careers and sleeping around with bad boys.

Getting married young is still on the culture menu for women, and probably always will be. But it is not a menu option for young men anymore.

No, women are forming bad habits, men are just searching for options that are actually available to them, instead of the pipe dream of marrying young and having a big family, which is denied to them because of the choices of women.
I have exactly one sibling, who is a man who got married at 21, and is celebrating 20 years this year. I got married the first time when I was 18, and would've likely stayed with him if we had been more mature. My parents got married at 18. My grandparents got married at 16. I don't think it's off the menu for men, you just have to train your family to behave the way you expect for them to.
The only big difference I see between relationships now and relationships then is the need to make it work.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Kingfisher
Woman
Trad Catholic
Maybe most men on this forum are not frittering away their youth -- anymore (although I've been reading this forum long enough to recall quite well the discussions about how to avoid commitment and fritter as much as possible - most of society has NOT changed in the same way this forum and its membership has changed since 2013/2014).

(I don't think most women on this forum are wasting or have wasted their youth, either - if we're building perceptions of the norm based on self-selected groups in echo chambers.)

Most young men, in general, ARE frittering. Frittering away their noontime, suppertime, choretime too! (One might say.)

Perhaps at a lower rate than young women. But the whole "most men good/most women bad" sentiment does not appear to hold up to scrutiny. It really is most of everyone, men and women. Even if there are twice as many good apples in the "men" barrel than the "women" barrel, we're still not talking about anything even close to resembling a barrel of "mostly good apples." :p

Men don't waste themselves and their youths in the same ways women do (usually), and I would ALMOST be able to buy into the idea that most men basically want to get married and are oriented toward such. But I know what the porn use/masturbation statistics look like - to name one prominent example. Young men are frittering their youth away in all the ways they are encouraged and permitted to do so - and those ways are quite numerous.
 

messaggera

Pelican
Woman
Other Christian
No, women are forming bad habits, men are just searching for options that are actually available to them, instead of the pipe dream of marrying young and having a big family, which is denied to them because of the choices of women.

Women are choosing higher education (including skilled careers degrees) over marriage. The historical data support this opportunity chosen by women.

Getting married young is still on the culture menu for women, and probably always will be. But it is not a menu option for young men anymore.

The marriage options for young men are limited; due to choices women are making at a young age.

Young women have been given more options since the 1970’s: college, employment (including online prostitution/only fans) and marriage.

Modern women have also become more self-centered, in turn creating bad habits.

If this permanent focus on "what's wrong with the opposite sex" reflects a general mood in society, then no wonder so many remain single.

Fruitful discussions can present truthful reasons why there is a decline of traditional value; opposed to complaining.

I can empathise with men who are frustrated about preparing themselves to support a wife and family for years, and then having limited options.

They want to get married, but it is not on the table for them because most young and even 30+ year-old women are more interested in their careers and sleeping around with bad boys.

Did not realise women over thirty are not acceptable options for wives until I started participating in this forum. Being courted at that age from prospective suitors was never a problem in my living area, nor were the educational and professional achievements that contributed to a self-sustaining life style. These were assets not liabilities to those men who could support a family.

As odd as it sounds my education, career choice, and late marriage to my husband allowed the opportunity to become a house wife, and to raise and to educate our family at home.

Glory be to God for the tribulations prior to our marriage, and the wisdom to change personal behaviours for the better.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Kingfisher
Woman
Trad Catholic
As odd as it sounds my education, career choice, and late marriage to my husband allowed the opportunity to become a house wife, and to raise and to educate our family at home.
It does not sound so odd to me, as someone who eschewed education and career to the greatest possible extent and did everything I could to "only" be a wife and mother, etc. - and ended up all turned around in ways I never would have expected.

Marriage and family formation is not a formula or a set of material steps you can "get right and win."

If we are doing "all the right things" but are prideful about it instead of humble, what success can we possibly hope to find in that?

I spent my youth learning how to be an objectively "better wife" than the vast majority of women. That was my primary focus. And I probably succeeded? But I had a chip on my shoulder about it and didn't even realize it at the time.

I wasn't entitled or picky about men or anything like that. But I had it in my head that I didn't have to be picky because I was so great. I could make a marriage work with almost anyone. That's just how awesome I was going to be as a wife. Look at all those other foolish girls not even trying! lol, better than them.

Oh my word, how egotistical I was.

God has such a sense of humor. Sometimes it's like I can feel Him chuckling at me, as I look back and realize/process the errors of my past.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
Did not realise women over thirty are not acceptable options for wives until I started participating in this forum. Being courted at that age from prospective suitors was never a problem in my living area, nor were the educational and professional achievements that contributed to a self-sustaining life style. These were assets not liabilities to those men who could support a family.
It's a mild exaggeration of the point here in order to prove how rare the other characteristics are that come with the 30-32 year old woman (that's really it mathematically if you want to marry and have kids with a higher value man). You don't understand it as much because it seems to be that you are pleasant and agreeable. The point of view on the forum isn't totally against say 29-32 year old women as wives, it's just that the 5 other most important characteristics for a wife at that age are largely not there for 99% of the women. So, at this point, you've got a shot at ages 27-32 in the west because of social and structural factors, but the disincentives really start to come out at that age physically, personality-wise, and legally as well.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
It's a mild exaggeration of the point here in order to prove how rare the other characteristics are that come with the 30-32 year old woman (that's really it mathematically if you want to marry and have kids with a higher value man). You don't understand it as much because it seems to be that you are pleasant and agreeable. The point of view on the forum isn't totally against say 29-32 year old women as wives, it's just that the 5 other most important characteristics for a wife at that age are largely not there for 99% of the women. So, at this point, you've got a shot at ages 27-32 in the west because of social and structural factors, but the disincentives really start to come out at that age physically, personality-wise, and legally as well.
I love how it's still a numbers game instead of the work of God.
 

Kitty Tantrum

Kingfisher
Woman
Trad Catholic
the pipe dream of marrying young and having a big family, which is denied to them because of the choices of women.
The very sad thing I've observed along my own path through existence is that all of the most marriageable women I've known (beautiful and virtuous, didn't mess around, married young) were snapped up by men who wanted to put exactly one or two babies in them and then get a vasectomy.

Often this was not discussed before marriage, the women just assumed their to-be husbands were on board with the traditional standard, and the young men rode those assumptions all the way to the altar, hung the framed copy of the LDS "The Family: A Proclamation to the World" on the wall - and then a few years down the road it's "we can't afford more children" or "but I want your body all to myself again."

The "hottest" girls I knew from way back ended up divorced after two children because their husbands insisted on some kind of indefinite/permanent birth control thereafter.

My friends and I circa-twenty-years-ago would like to know the location of the hidden stash of young men who want big families. Even in the very pro-natal Mormon church, these were rare. My friends and I joked about how we wished women could have babies together, because we all wanted tons of babies ASAP and it was incredibly difficult to find a young man who didn't want you to be on some kind of birth control for the first couple of years of the hypothetical marriage "and then we'll see."

Most of the men I've known to actually WANT large families, are middle-aged-and-older men who did plenty of frittering in their youth and have come around to an understanding of what they've been trading away and what they could have had instead. They were not DENIED anything when they were young; they chose the "shiny" path of material and sensory gratification because it looked like a better deal to them than the "old ways" that would saddle them with obligation and place restrictions on their liberty.

"Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" was the mantra that preceded the question of "Where have all the good women gone?"

Kind of like how "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" was the precursor to "Where have all the good men gone?"

Both sexes have been targeted wholesale with propaganda designed to undermine family formation.

We live in a world where many people will only come to see the truth through the sorrow and heartache of having been deceived.

I feel for those young people who have earnestly spent their youth preparing for and seeking marriage, and find themselves lacking suitable available options. What I wish for young men AND women who find themselves in this position to realize, is that they are in that position partly because they themselves are rare.

Maybe a lot of what I say comes across as trying to point the finger back at men, but my point is not "well look at how bad most men are."

It's just this: If you are a young person who truly desires to follow the "old ways," marry young, raise a large family for the Glory of God, etc. -- please understand that you are a very rare person, seeking another very rare person.

If you (man or woman) assume that you are basically typical of your own sex (that is to say, that MOST of your peers also want these good things for good reasons), and that it's only the opposite sex that is mostly wayward... this will not equip you to understand and relate to those rare people of the opposite sex who ARE seeking the same things you are.

"I'M the statistically disadvantaged/victimized one because I am (my own sex). Finding a good spouse should have been easy for you because you are (the opposite sex), and most of (my own sex) are highly qualified for and actively seeking marriage. So what's wrong with you that you haven't settled down with one of your countless available options yet???" is the mindset that seems to develop from these sorts of assumptions, and it is a mindset that serves nobody but Satan.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
I love how it's still a numbers game instead of the work of God.
It can be the work of God but not the way you think it is. Let me ask you a question, did God ordain eras in which women got married at young ages? Does he then ordain the eras that they get married at old ages? God clearly is playing generational and epoch related "numbers games" ... or He isn't and this is just how societies cycle.

You can't have it both ways.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
It can be the work of God but not the way you think it is. Let me ask you a question, did God ordain eras in which women got married at young ages? Does he then ordain the eras that they get married at old ages? God clearly is playing generational and epoch related "numbers games" ... or He isn't and this is just how societies cycle.

You can't have it both ways.
Idk. I had kids in my twenties, and most of my friends from school went to college and then had kids in their mid thirties. Rural people generally have kids younger than people who live in cities. It doesn't mean they don't have them in cities, it just means they think they need a more status to have them.
 

Blade Runner

Crow
Orthodox
By the way, it's all the work of God, and you know what? I'm OK with it.

I just object to the whimsical application of "God doing things" when times are good, on average, and "God doing things" when times are bad. This is a proof to me that what is going on is not what people (like you in this case) are thinking.

Did God like (or love) a man in the 1950s better than me? I don't think so. Because of our environments, though, we are treated materially differently. Again, I have no problem with this, it's a point of view like yours that is not true - God isn't acting for family formation currently, on balance. Is that because of man and his whims? Sure. But it's not like the 1950s men and women were morally better, in and of themselves. They just inherited a normal society.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
By the way, it's all the work of God, and you know what? I'm OK with it.

I just object to the whimsical application of "God doing things" when times are good, on average, and "God doing things" when times are bad. This is a proof to me that what is going on is not what people (like you in this case) are thinking.

Did God like (or love) a man in the 1950s better than me? I don't think so. Because of our environments, though, we are treated materially differently. Again, I have no problem with this, it's a point of view like yours that is not true - God isn't acting for family formation currently, on balance. Is that because of man and his whims? Sure. But it's not like the 1950s men and women were morally better, in and of themselves. They just inherited a normal society.
My children were born in 2009 and 2011, which were some of the worst economic years since I was born in 1983. I guess you have to adjust your faith for inflation?
 

EntWife

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
By the way, it's all the work of God, and you know what? I'm OK with it.

I just object to the whimsical application of "God doing things" when times are good, on average, and "God doing things" when times are bad. This is a proof to me that what is going on is not what people (like you in this case) are thinking.

Did God like (or love) a man in the 1950s better than me? I don't think so. Because of our environments, though, we are treated materially differently. Again, I have no problem with this, it's a point of view like yours that is not true - God isn't acting for family formation currently, on balance. Is that because of man and his whims? Sure. But it's not like the 1950s men and women were morally better, in and of themselves. They just inherited a normal society.
God doesn't violate your free will. People nowadays are making lots of bad choices that make a stable, lasting marriage very unlikely. However, you can do all the right things and still not get married, if that wasn't God's will for you.

That's why we keep saying to work on yourself and your spiritual life, and God will give you a wife if it is His will. Because it's both your effort and God's help.
 

EntWife

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
It can be the work of God but not the way you think it is. Let me ask you a question, did God ordain eras in which women got married at young ages? Does he then ordain the eras that they get married at old ages? God clearly is playing generational and epoch related "numbers games" ... or He isn't and this is just how societies cycle.

You can't have it both ways.
No, God doesn't ordain that people disobey him and fornicate their youth away. That's their free will being misused.
 

EntWife

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox
It does not sound so odd to me, as someone who eschewed education and career to the greatest possible extent and did everything I could to "only" be a wife and mother, etc. - and ended up all turned around in ways I never would have expected.

Marriage and family formation is not a formula or a set of material steps you can "get right and win."

If we are doing "all the right things" but are prideful about it instead of humble, what success can we possibly hope to find in that?

I spent my youth learning how to be an objectively "better wife" than the vast majority of women. That was my primary focus. And I probably succeeded? But I had a chip on my shoulder about it and didn't even realize it at the time.

I wasn't entitled or picky about men or anything like that. But I had it in my head that I didn't have to be picky because I was so great. I could make a marriage work with almost anyone. That's just how awesome I was going to be as a wife. Look at all those other foolish girls not even trying! lol, better than them.

Oh my word, how egotistical I was.

God has such a sense of humor. Sometimes it's like I can feel Him chuckling at me, as I look back and realize/process the errors of my past.
I know, I feel the same, but about parenting. I thought I knew it all. God saw me judging other parents and being proud that my first two were good kids, because we were such good parents (so I thought). He gave me my third child, who is so hard to deal with. It seems like nothing gets through to this kid. When he's not being a terror, though, he's really sweet and loving.
 

Kentucky Gent

Robin
Catholic
I've got eyes to see what is happening around me,
This is called anecdotal evidence. It is not statistically valid. You don't know enough people to draw conclusions based only on what you observe in your personal life.
even if people online say something different.
The manosphere is not just some people saying something. It is massive, and I'd bet dollars to little green donuts you haven't seen much of it. But that's just the beginning. Plummeting marriage rates correlate directly to the rise of feminism, and there isn't really much else out there that correlates as well, so it's probably causation. And we can see the data not just from the US but across Western Civ. It just isn't rational to base your opinion on only the people you know while ignoring an approximately 2-billion person data set.

Then you've got the divorce-industrial complex that is heavily skewed against men, and the fact that 70% of divorces are initiated by the woman, which combined create a virtual minefield and literal "no man's land" that young men have to be willing to cross to get married. And they can see a system stacked against them, which means they have to be and are much more cautious about tying the knot than previous generations.
 

Kentucky Gent

Robin
Catholic
I have exactly one sibling, who is a man who got married at 21, and is celebrating 20 years this year. I got married the first time when I was 18, and would've likely stayed with him if we had been more mature. My parents got married at 18. My grandparents got married at 16.
Again, anecdotal evidence, just like EntWife. But the fact that your particular family has Christian family values in no way demonstrates this situation for the culture at large.
I don't think it's off the menu for men, you just have to train your family to behave the way you expect for them to.
What?? Are you proposing cousin marriage? Because it takes two to tango, and if a man is looking for a wife outside his family (as he should, of course!) then he is heavily dependent on what other families train their children (daughters) to do.

Also I should point out I said "it is not a menu option for young men anymore." And I am not speaking in absolutes - of course there are exceptions. My point is, the rates have plummeted.
 

PineTreeFarmer

Kingfisher
Woman
Orthodox Inquirer
Again, anecdotal evidence, just like EntWife. But the fact that your particular family has Christian family values in no way demonstrates this situation for the culture at large.

What?? Are you proposing cousin marriage? Because it takes two to tango, and if a man is looking for a wife outside his family (as he should, of course!) then he is heavily dependent on what other families train their children (daughters) to do.

Also I should point out I said "it is not a menu option for young men anymore." And I am not speaking in absolutes - of course there are exceptions. My point is, the rates have plummeted.
I did find an appropriate family member.
 
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