Balkanite said:
If it's not too much trouble, could you elaborate on that statement in the "How did you get your current job" thread: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-14282.html
A beginner's guide and reading list to jobhunting and networking
- Thread starter Thomas the Rhymer
- Start date
If it's not too much trouble, could you elaborate on that statement in the "How did you get your current job" thread: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-14282.html
Update:
Uncle YMG continues to dish out wisdom to young wannabe jobseekers:
His Graduate International Career Pipelining breaks down what a young gunner needs to think about if he wants an international career:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18232.html
If you are going into tertiary education, YMG breaks down how to get maximum networking advantage in his Advantages of Studying Abroad thread:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18233.html
Poppinopolis and I have been brainstorming networking ideas via PM, he's built up a role model picture of what a successfully networking individual. Check out his Thoughts on Networking:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18990-post-338178.html#pid338178
As an interesting aside, I stumbled on an article which claims that drug dealers need to network too:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/routledg/fglc/2011/00000012/00000001/art00004
Uncle YMG continues to dish out wisdom to young wannabe jobseekers:
His Graduate International Career Pipelining breaks down what a young gunner needs to think about if he wants an international career:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18232.html
If you are going into tertiary education, YMG breaks down how to get maximum networking advantage in his Advantages of Studying Abroad thread:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18233.html
Poppinopolis and I have been brainstorming networking ideas via PM, he's built up a role model picture of what a successfully networking individual. Check out his Thoughts on Networking:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-18990-post-338178.html#pid338178
As an interesting aside, I stumbled on an article which claims that drug dealers need to network too:
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/routledg/fglc/2011/00000012/00000001/art00004
Engineering Bandicoot
Pigeon
I'd like to add some info to this thread, although I don't think it will be anywhere as useful as to what Thomas has contributed. Thomas said a resume is a formality, and he's right, but for those out there who need help actually writing a resume, then I found a good site that explains how to write one out.
http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/11/17/10-things-that-define-a-killer-resume/
Normally I don't take advice from women, but the writer of this resume guide actually explained the process extremely well. I'd read the entire guide if possible. The writer even includes free examples of what a well written resume should look like, and she also gives free templates. As for the "cover letter", well you're on your own for that one. If you need more examples of what a resume in your field should look like, then you can do what I did and look at other resumes on Indeed.com Click the "Find Resumes" link at the top left of the homepage, and input the search criteria on what positions you are looking for. Be warned though, many of the resumes I've read on there were written extremely bad. I had to sift through 100 to find 1 good example. But that's just what happened to me, maybe y'all will have better luck.
But again, the resume is just a formality, and the only way I've gotten employment so far is by talking to the Manager, or whoever is in a position of power at a company. Talking to HR's directly has never gotten me anywhere, it's true, they have to be bypassed if you want an actual shot at being employed in todays economy. HR's are there for the company, not you.
http://www.squawkfox.com/2008/11/17/10-things-that-define-a-killer-resume/
Normally I don't take advice from women, but the writer of this resume guide actually explained the process extremely well. I'd read the entire guide if possible. The writer even includes free examples of what a well written resume should look like, and she also gives free templates. As for the "cover letter", well you're on your own for that one. If you need more examples of what a resume in your field should look like, then you can do what I did and look at other resumes on Indeed.com Click the "Find Resumes" link at the top left of the homepage, and input the search criteria on what positions you are looking for. Be warned though, many of the resumes I've read on there were written extremely bad. I had to sift through 100 to find 1 good example. But that's just what happened to me, maybe y'all will have better luck.
But again, the resume is just a formality, and the only way I've gotten employment so far is by talking to the Manager, or whoever is in a position of power at a company. Talking to HR's directly has never gotten me anywhere, it's true, they have to be bypassed if you want an actual shot at being employed in todays economy. HR's are there for the company, not you.
This thread looks golden. I will spend some serious time reading through the links. I'm seeing how the two biggest shortcomings I have had to deal with in my life story, as written up to this point (bad with women, not knowing how to network and get jobs) are closely inter-related. Despite all the gifts given to me I have been socially inept.
Wow. What a selfless contribution. Excellent advice. You'd get another rep point from me if I could give an extra one OP. I wholeheartedly agree that the same principles that work with chicks work in the business world. This is one legitimate example of the alpha/beta dichotomy.
I noticed you mentioned a series. If the other threads are additionally insightful then I'd appreciate a link to them.
There's another social networking site for work called Tibbr.com.
There's also one for global execs called TopCom but it's private. If you can tap into that network you're gold. It's basically social networking for the top 1%. It makes it easy for global leaders to arrange web conferences, e-mails, phone calls, chats, etc between each other. Combines all the benefits from every social networking site (FB, Skype, LinkedIn) all in a single platform.
Both Tibbr and TopCom were created by the same company (Tibco).
For the young guys coming out of school, join LinkedIn and join the groups (the ones for the schools you attended, industries, etc). By joining a group, you can message any group member without needing to make them a connection first, nor do you have to pay anything. Find people in those groups working for the places you want to work (the search bar will filter this out and pull up people from your group), send a nice message to build rapport and inquire about opportunities you're interested in. They'll be able to get your resume directly to the hiring manager as a referral, which is basically equivalent to knowing someone at the firm (even though you don't them). Cool, isn't it?
I noticed you mentioned a series. If the other threads are additionally insightful then I'd appreciate a link to them.
There's another social networking site for work called Tibbr.com.
There's also one for global execs called TopCom but it's private. If you can tap into that network you're gold. It's basically social networking for the top 1%. It makes it easy for global leaders to arrange web conferences, e-mails, phone calls, chats, etc between each other. Combines all the benefits from every social networking site (FB, Skype, LinkedIn) all in a single platform.
Both Tibbr and TopCom were created by the same company (Tibco).
For the young guys coming out of school, join LinkedIn and join the groups (the ones for the schools you attended, industries, etc). By joining a group, you can message any group member without needing to make them a connection first, nor do you have to pay anything. Find people in those groups working for the places you want to work (the search bar will filter this out and pull up people from your group), send a nice message to build rapport and inquire about opportunities you're interested in. They'll be able to get your resume directly to the hiring manager as a referral, which is basically equivalent to knowing someone at the firm (even though you don't them). Cool, isn't it?
Interesting how my previous post months ago comes off rather negative to me now. Now I'd say I don't feel like that anymore even though I believe the analysis to be correct. This thread looks worth another look.
R Smoov
Pelican
I agree with Rex here. When you look at your older posts on the forum you can smile and say "Damn I improved"RexImperator said:
Our school had a internship fair today and I was surprised how now I can gauge the company by the way their reps or whatever acted. Kept my mouth shut about things that could hinder me from the job (My GPA). And just talked on things that I had good experience in. Now I'm just making moves and contacting the ones who were chill to me.
You don't need a +1, You need a +100,000,000
Bumping up this thread. I've started writing a book on networking and I'd appreciate getting some advice on what to focus on.
Feel free to say anything regarding networking and my take on it, but answers to these questions would be especially useful:
- How useful is/was this thread and links to your networking efforts?
- Is there any part of this thread or the links that you thought were utter rubbish?
- Is there any part of this thread or the links that you thought were really great or really opened you up to the possibilities of networking?
- Is there anything you felt was missing?
Any other comments would also be appreciated.
Feel free to say anything regarding networking and my take on it, but answers to these questions would be especially useful:
- How useful is/was this thread and links to your networking efforts?
- Is there any part of this thread or the links that you thought were utter rubbish?
- Is there any part of this thread or the links that you thought were really great or really opened you up to the possibilities of networking?
- Is there anything you felt was missing?
Any other comments would also be appreciated.
GoodfellaGood
Pigeon
Excellent post Thomas, I'm going to delve into a lot of the links here and this is going to be one of my primary resources for my upcoming job hunt (and perhaps the most important job hunt of my life).
I haven't read your posts extensively before but have you read the book "Never Eat Alone". I found it quite informative. It's all about how to be a super-networker. It's aimed at someone a few years beyond my current state but I would imagine that you would find a few useful things in there. Or perhaps you already read it and thought it was crap.... if so I'd like to hear why.
I haven't read your posts extensively before but have you read the book "Never Eat Alone". I found it quite informative. It's all about how to be a super-networker. It's aimed at someone a few years beyond my current state but I would imagine that you would find a few useful things in there. Or perhaps you already read it and thought it was crap.... if so I'd like to hear why.
GoodfellaGood said:
Thanks for the recommendation, I found a copy on the webz and it's in my 'to-read' folder.
BasketBounce
Woodpecker
Bookmark'd both this and the W-D-N-H-C thread, both have valuable info.
Gonna use this thread as a place where I can share my experiences and reflect on how using certain techniques outlined in this thread and in Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence people help me out.
My interest is in biotech and biomedical engineering. I'd like to create my own start up one of these days. I know relatively little about this industry, so my first step is to identify where exactly my interests lie. I figure the best way to do that is to get some practical experience in a biotech/bioengineering lab that is doing something I find remotely interesting.
I met up with my friend yesterday who is a biomedical engineer. I focused on smiling when we first met, and he smiled a lot, too. Unconscious mirroring? Who knows. I need to do more tests to see if smiling really makes much of a difference.
The conversation started with him talking about his side hustle, which has very little to do with engineering. I did not rush to talk about engineering; in fact, I asked him many questions about tour guiding. What sort of route do you take around the area where you give tours? How big are your groups? How did you come about finding this job? When do you give tours? Why did you decide to be a tour guide rather than something else?
I did not ask these questions in rapid fire, interview style. I asked one open ended question, and he answered it, and then we meandered on that topic for a little while. For example, when he talked about how big his groups were, I made a statement about how he must have to talk very loud to make sure everyone hears him. He said he did, and that got him to talk about how many of the people in his audience are from different countries, so not only does he have to speak loud, but he has to speak slowly, too. And bam, another place topic where the conversation can go. Asking open-ended questions seems to be the best way to keep them talking.
Eventually my friend starting talking to me about his engineering gig completely of his own volitionand I asked him for advice about getting started in the engineering industry. He gave me a few suggestions of places that are actively looking for people with little experience. I am now making plans to meet up with them in a few weeks.
Reflecting on this conversation, I can't say if appearing genuinely interested is the cause of him connecting me to these people. Maybe he wanted to be nice. Who knows what would have happened if I had been very blunt and said "Hey, I want a job, help me out please".
Ways to improve: Outside of simply hanging out with the guy, I don't see how I appeal to my friend's interests very much. He has some goals that I could help out with in the future, but as of right now, I am somewhat unessential to some of his personal goals that he outlined to me in his conversation. The strength in our relationship comes simply from my ability to listen without interrupting him and for my tendency to judge his experiences in a positive manner. Meh, maybe that's all he wants from me.
Any thoughts on maintaining contacts in the long-run? Seems like the way to go is to befriend people and keep in touch via phone conversations until you can use them later. I am having trouble seeing the point of maintaining long-term connections that are not presently beneficial to you. The way I see it, there will always be new people to meet, so one should not waste time keeping up with people who do not add value to you or help you accomplish your goals.
Gonna use this thread as a place where I can share my experiences and reflect on how using certain techniques outlined in this thread and in Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence people help me out.
My interest is in biotech and biomedical engineering. I'd like to create my own start up one of these days. I know relatively little about this industry, so my first step is to identify where exactly my interests lie. I figure the best way to do that is to get some practical experience in a biotech/bioengineering lab that is doing something I find remotely interesting.
I met up with my friend yesterday who is a biomedical engineer. I focused on smiling when we first met, and he smiled a lot, too. Unconscious mirroring? Who knows. I need to do more tests to see if smiling really makes much of a difference.
The conversation started with him talking about his side hustle, which has very little to do with engineering. I did not rush to talk about engineering; in fact, I asked him many questions about tour guiding. What sort of route do you take around the area where you give tours? How big are your groups? How did you come about finding this job? When do you give tours? Why did you decide to be a tour guide rather than something else?
I did not ask these questions in rapid fire, interview style. I asked one open ended question, and he answered it, and then we meandered on that topic for a little while. For example, when he talked about how big his groups were, I made a statement about how he must have to talk very loud to make sure everyone hears him. He said he did, and that got him to talk about how many of the people in his audience are from different countries, so not only does he have to speak loud, but he has to speak slowly, too. And bam, another place topic where the conversation can go. Asking open-ended questions seems to be the best way to keep them talking.
Eventually my friend starting talking to me about his engineering gig completely of his own volitionand I asked him for advice about getting started in the engineering industry. He gave me a few suggestions of places that are actively looking for people with little experience. I am now making plans to meet up with them in a few weeks.
Reflecting on this conversation, I can't say if appearing genuinely interested is the cause of him connecting me to these people. Maybe he wanted to be nice. Who knows what would have happened if I had been very blunt and said "Hey, I want a job, help me out please".
Ways to improve: Outside of simply hanging out with the guy, I don't see how I appeal to my friend's interests very much. He has some goals that I could help out with in the future, but as of right now, I am somewhat unessential to some of his personal goals that he outlined to me in his conversation. The strength in our relationship comes simply from my ability to listen without interrupting him and for my tendency to judge his experiences in a positive manner. Meh, maybe that's all he wants from me.
Any thoughts on maintaining contacts in the long-run? Seems like the way to go is to befriend people and keep in touch via phone conversations until you can use them later. I am having trouble seeing the point of maintaining long-term connections that are not presently beneficial to you. The way I see it, there will always be new people to meet, so one should not waste time keeping up with people who do not add value to you or help you accomplish your goals.
Kudos. That ability has reaped me more benefits and rewards than I can presently think of. Everyone wants to talk. If you can listen (as in really listen, as opposed to waiting for your turn to speak), you're valuable.
I maintain contact with people who I can benefit from, but only if I can benefit them in some way too. And you can benefit/help someone in many intangible ways. For example, successful people like to give advice, so you're benefiting them if you listen to their advice (and probably yourself at the same time).
good info
Lucky has made great summaries of two networking books, I thought I'd leave the links here.
Never Eat Alone: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38751.html
Give and Take: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-39200.html
Never Eat Alone: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-38751.html
Give and Take: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-39200.html
Dragonstone
Sparrow
Over the years I've gotten a few job applications and resumes sent to me, and I've noticed the following issues:
1. The resume gets sent to "Human Resources" or "Hiring Manager", neither of which is me. I'm glad someone's showing initiative, but I want someone who can figure out the person they are trying to reach (me). In one case it was someone who fairly obviously was sending a "blast resume" to everyone on a mailing list, since I knew something of the situation.
2. The resume looks like it was prepared by someone in a college career center. No sense of what the organization is looking for, no attempt to bring strengths to my attention, etc. It was particularly noticeable in one case where the person's address was within a half of mile of our location.
That said, one thing that did impress me is those who used slightly heavier high-grade paper. If you're going to send a cold resume to someone, use better paper.
1. The resume gets sent to "Human Resources" or "Hiring Manager", neither of which is me. I'm glad someone's showing initiative, but I want someone who can figure out the person they are trying to reach (me). In one case it was someone who fairly obviously was sending a "blast resume" to everyone on a mailing list, since I knew something of the situation.
2. The resume looks like it was prepared by someone in a college career center. No sense of what the organization is looking for, no attempt to bring strengths to my attention, etc. It was particularly noticeable in one case where the person's address was within a half of mile of our location.
That said, one thing that did impress me is those who used slightly heavier high-grade paper. If you're going to send a cold resume to someone, use better paper.
BasketBounce
Woodpecker
Back with more experience, there was a networking event last night that I went to.
Always dress to impress, even if the event is casual attire. The organizer of the event I went to sent out an e-mail saying that casual attire was fine, yet all of the people from the firm that was hosting the event were dressed nicely.
Get there early to talk with people. I got there "on time" and big groups were already formed. This kind of sucked because as soon as I got their, the only lone wolves were other people seeking employment.
I had to wait until AFTER the presentation was over until I could talk with someone one-on-one. Literally as soon as the applause for the conclusion of their powerpoint was over, I was walking over to a guy. I am certain that I was the FIRST person to approach a member of the company after the presentation was over.
People latched on to my energy though, which was...well, unexpected. I was talking with a guy and it was going great, then out of nowhere, three other people were just standing there observation our conversation. I don't think it threw me off at all, but eventually I was cut off by one of the women and then the guy opened up his body language to include the other people in the conversation.
In this instance, I figured patience was the way to go. Because I had been talking with this guy first, I positioned myself to be by his side, almost as if it was he and I were giving a presentation to the three women who joined the conversation. I interjected here and there when I could, but I tried to stay away from asking him personal questions. In fact, I went very friendly, trying to include multiple people in the conversation. Maybe introducing myself to the other people networking would be a good thing? Give off a friendly vibe or something? idk. anyways, I waited until the women left then continued talking with him some more before departing. My goal was to leave the conversation with him remembering ME specifically as the someone he had a one-on-one conversation with, so that's mainly why I did not leave when other people showed up.
When there was a big group of people though, it was kind of awkward to ask for a business card or contact information. All the other girls did it right before they left, which just came off weird to me. Like imagine that, here we are, five people just chatting shooting the shit...then someone asks you for your contact information...then immediately leaves. I dunno, I kind of feel like it was just a very clear way of the women saying "Okay, I'm done with you, give me your card now". Not much panache, ya know? Meh. Hopefully I did the right thing. I would like some feedback on what's the best way to go about getting contact information when you're in a big group setting like that. Due to my patience, I did not end up talking with ALL of the big players: however, I leveraged my rapport with this guy (who I JUST met at this networking event, I did not know any of the big players prior to the event) and I got him to introduce me to other big players at the event. By "big players" I mean people that work for the company. Ended up getting the contacts of 5 out of 12 obvious people that I should have talked to. Ya win some you lose some I guess.
SO yeah, question is: HOw do you get contact information and make a good impression when in a group?
How to prevent people from intruding when you've got someone one-on-one?
Will report back with more later. There are more events later this week.
Always dress to impress, even if the event is casual attire. The organizer of the event I went to sent out an e-mail saying that casual attire was fine, yet all of the people from the firm that was hosting the event were dressed nicely.
Get there early to talk with people. I got there "on time" and big groups were already formed. This kind of sucked because as soon as I got their, the only lone wolves were other people seeking employment.
I had to wait until AFTER the presentation was over until I could talk with someone one-on-one. Literally as soon as the applause for the conclusion of their powerpoint was over, I was walking over to a guy. I am certain that I was the FIRST person to approach a member of the company after the presentation was over.
People latched on to my energy though, which was...well, unexpected. I was talking with a guy and it was going great, then out of nowhere, three other people were just standing there observation our conversation. I don't think it threw me off at all, but eventually I was cut off by one of the women and then the guy opened up his body language to include the other people in the conversation.
In this instance, I figured patience was the way to go. Because I had been talking with this guy first, I positioned myself to be by his side, almost as if it was he and I were giving a presentation to the three women who joined the conversation. I interjected here and there when I could, but I tried to stay away from asking him personal questions. In fact, I went very friendly, trying to include multiple people in the conversation. Maybe introducing myself to the other people networking would be a good thing? Give off a friendly vibe or something? idk. anyways, I waited until the women left then continued talking with him some more before departing. My goal was to leave the conversation with him remembering ME specifically as the someone he had a one-on-one conversation with, so that's mainly why I did not leave when other people showed up.
When there was a big group of people though, it was kind of awkward to ask for a business card or contact information. All the other girls did it right before they left, which just came off weird to me. Like imagine that, here we are, five people just chatting shooting the shit...then someone asks you for your contact information...then immediately leaves. I dunno, I kind of feel like it was just a very clear way of the women saying "Okay, I'm done with you, give me your card now". Not much panache, ya know? Meh. Hopefully I did the right thing. I would like some feedback on what's the best way to go about getting contact information when you're in a big group setting like that. Due to my patience, I did not end up talking with ALL of the big players: however, I leveraged my rapport with this guy (who I JUST met at this networking event, I did not know any of the big players prior to the event) and I got him to introduce me to other big players at the event. By "big players" I mean people that work for the company. Ended up getting the contacts of 5 out of 12 obvious people that I should have talked to. Ya win some you lose some I guess.
SO yeah, question is: HOw do you get contact information and make a good impression when in a group?
How to prevent people from intruding when you've got someone one-on-one?
Will report back with more later. There are more events later this week.
After reading a recent thread ( http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-49206.html ), I decided to compile all my best posts on networking into a little 50 page pdf. I think this is easier than trying to navigate a gazillion links and it will be easier to browse through.