A Honeymoon From Hell

What caused my now estranged "Orthodox" wife to act the way she did?

  • Being in immigration jail for half a day (my Father's pick)

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • It was pre-planned - likely a lover (wife's version)

    Votes: 21 58.3%
  • Something else? please elaborate

    Votes: 17 47.2%

  • Total voters
    36

SingularityOne

Robin
Orthodox
I suppose she left me when she left the hotel and got her own. I did stonewall her when she acted up and demanded her own room, which she argued was me "forcing her to leave."

When I told her "to ask for money whoever she is sleeping with and leave me alone" she acted as if I tried to "hurt her."

She obviously has her own point of view, I think Roosh's article about complaining is very relevant here. Don't think it would have mattered if I got her everything she asked for, as her complaining comes from internal insecurity. She obviously turned out unready for marriage or even a serious relationship. Her comment about wanting "to have fun" for a few years are the best indicator of this, she even told this to my Mother, saying that I am too serious.
The fact that your mother is even involved here brings up a red flag to me. Also, a question, is she someone you think would be a healthy person to marry? Another question, what does her insecurity bring up within you?
 

Philosopher

Kingfisher
Orthodox
The fact that your mother is even involved here brings up a red flag to me. Also, a question, is she someone you think would be a healthy person to marry? Another question, what does her insecurity bring up within you?
Mother was involved since she called her while being detained in Mexico as my phone did not have service. No, she is not a healthy person to marry. I am indifferent to her insecurity, when she got annoying-I just distanced myself.
 

SingularityOne

Robin
Orthodox
Mother was involved since she called her while being detained in Mexico as my phone did not have service. No, she is not a healthy person to marry. I am indifferent to her insecurity, when she got annoying-I just distanced myself.
Okay, I understand. Sometimes distancing is healthy if there is time to recognize your part in the matter and the underlining issues aren’t just swept under the rug. It sounds like you just answered your own question regarding contact with her (if you should reach out or let her reach out to you) considering you said you believe her to not be a healthy person to marry.
 

Philosopher

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Okay, I understand. Sometimes distancing is healthy if there is time to recognize your part in the matter and the underlining issues aren’t just swept under the rug. It sounds like you just answered your own question regarding contact with her (if you should reach out or let her reach out to you) considering you said you believe her to not be a healthy person to marry.
Thanks, yeah nothing good can come. Hopefully annulment won’t take long
 

Philosopher

Kingfisher
Orthodox
The Lord is in control brother. That's a hard spot to be in with an annulment. I thought you were engaged, not married?
No, we have been married since December.

We just haven't had the ceremony/church because of COVID and being in different countries. Would have had the ceremony as soon as she had her visa (this fall was likely)
 

Magnus Stout

Woodpecker
Orthodox
I don't think you were as "Alpha" as you initially describe because her actions indicate that you were placating her, not the other way around. You failed to call out her bad behavior and rationalized it instead. You seem to be either operating from a sunk-cost fallacy or you feel like she is the "catch."

The structure of your poll indicates that you don't understand her or her thinking. This is often because our failure to see a thing is not a failure of sight, but of misguided Will. Put differently, we choose to be deluded; we choose to ignore reality. We do this often to protect our egos. In a nutshell: projecting instead of perceiving.

I would seek annulment and take a break from courting other women for at least 90 days so you can work on those inward issues. Maybe you are being called for something else? Your worth is not in your Daygame skills, but in your walk with Christ. Pray, humble yourself and seek answers to those deeper questions.
 

Philosopher

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Th
I don't think you were as "Alpha" as you initially describe because her actions indicate that you were placating her, not the other way around. You failed to call out her bad behavior and rationalized it instead. You seem to be either operating from a sunk-cost fallacy or you feel like she is the "catch."

The structure of your poll indicates that you don't understand her or her thinking. This is often because our failure to see a thing is not a failure of sight, but of misguided Will. Put differently, we choose to be deluded; we choose to ignore reality. We do this often to protect our egos. In a nutshell: projecting instead of perceiving.

I would seek annulment and take a break from courting other women for at least 90 days so you can work on those inward issues. Maybe you are being called for something else? Your worth is not in your Daygame skills, but in your walk with Christ. Pray, humble yourself and seek answers to those deeper questio
I don't think you were as "Alpha" as you initially describe because her actions indicate that you were placating her, not the other way around. You failed to call out her bad behavior and rationalized it instead. You seem to be either operating from a sunk-cost fallacy or you feel like she is the "catch."

The structure of your poll indicates that you don't understand her or her thinking. This is often because our failure to see a thing is not a failure of sight, but of misguided Will. Put differently, we choose to be deluded; we choose to ignore reality. We do this often to protect our egos. In a nutshell: projecting instead of perceiving.

I would seek annulment and take a break from courting other women for at least 90 days so you can work on those inward issues. Maybe you are being called for something else? Your worth is not in your Daygame skills, but in your walk with Christ. Pray, humble yourself and seek answers to those deeper questions.
Thanks, I did tell her a few tomes that her behavior was unacceptable like when she refused a kiss and when she was sitting in the lobby. Definitely was placating her, her the arrest definitely put me off balance.

doing what you suggested.
 

Magnus Stout

Woodpecker
Orthodox
We all make mistakes. I'm sure you were looking forward to a wonderful trip. It really hurts when your kindness is met with such coolness.

Something else I've learned is to ask more open-ended questions. I think we don't ask those kind of questions because we are afraid of the answers. But, here's a silver lining: facing unpleasant realities is also a way you can demonstrate Alpha qualities. Even though we are not facing down scary animals like our ancient fathers (Sabertooths, Lions, etc...) Men are still required to face unpleasantness, but of a more abstract and emotional variety. Women value that ability and Men respect it.

This kind of unpleasantness is often more difficult than facing down physical challenges. Example: I personally know of a highly decorated soldier who was incredibly brave and successful in Iraq (super Alpha with many kills), but fell into deep despair and alcoholism after he returned home. He ended up divorced and lost custody of his three daughters (his wife was very sweet and never cheated, but couldn't tolerate his drug abuse).

He was brave facing external challenges, but weak on the inside. His alcoholism was a tool to avoid resolving inner conflict. If we do not do this inner work before battles (or conflict), we often suffer afterwards. That is one reason for the PTSD that some of our soldiers suffer: we are good at facing outward conflict, but poor at resolving inward conflict.

This inner mastery is an old concept: your avatar, Socrates, was a super Alpha in exactly that kind of way. People think they are fearless until facing a series of "why" questions, as Socrates did. I believe this is because "why" often pierces the ego. The more we seek to "protect" our ego (an illusion), the weaker and more fearful we become.

Ultimately, each of us should refine our values to what we are personally willing to die for (rather than kill for). Burn away the cruft and build on that solid foundation. That foundation--the real and honest you--is what will attract others to you.
 

Philosopher

Kingfisher
Orthodox
We all make mistakes. I'm sure you were looking forward to a wonderful trip. It really hurts when your kindness is met with such coolness.

Something else I've learned is to ask more open-ended questions. I think we don't ask those kind of questions because we are afraid of the answers. But, here's a silver lining: facing unpleasant realities is also a way you can demonstrate Alpha qualities. Even though we are not facing down scary animals like our ancient fathers (Sabertooths, Lions, etc...) Men are still required to face unpleasantness, but of a more abstract and emotional variety. Women value that ability and Men respect it.

This kind of unpleasantness is often more difficult than facing down physical challenges. Example: I personally know of a highly decorated soldier who was incredibly brave and successful in Iraq (super Alpha with many kills), but fell into deep despair and alcoholism after he returned home. He ended up divorced and lost custody of his three daughters (his wife was very sweet and never cheated, but couldn't tolerate his drug abuse).

He was brave facing external challenges, but weak on the inside. His alcoholism was a tool to avoid resolving inner conflict. If we do not do this inner work before battles (or conflict), we often suffer afterwards. That is one reason for the PTSD that some of our soldiers suffer: we are good at facing outward conflict, but poor at resolving inward conflict.

This inner mastery is an old concept: your avatar, Socrates, was a super Alpha in exactly that kind of way. People think they are fearless until facing a series of "why" questions, as Socrates did. I believe this is because "why" often pierces the ego. The more we seek to "protect" our ego (an illusion), the weaker and more fearful we become.

Ultimately, each of us should refine our values to what we are personally willing to die for (rather than kill for). Burn away the cruft and build on that solid foundation. That foundation--the real and honest you--is what will attract others to you.
Thanks, Socrates will always be an inspiration as an Alpha has to be outcome independent
 
Fellow RVFers/ big and little brothers, here is why I have been missing from the forum for a while. As you may remember, I tied the knot (under Caesar) with my on and off again girlfriend in December of 2020 (engaged since the summer). This May had something happen that I still cannot quite wrap my head around. Will try to keep it brief with maximum detail and as I had asked for help in prior times - I am turning again to my God fearing brothers to help make sense of what happened. Can elaborate later if necessary.

So she arrived from Russia to a different terminal than I had and was detained by the Mexican immigration authorities. She called my Mother as she was being detained and had her cell confiscated. My parents informed me that she was detained by immigration authorities. I contacted the Russian consulate and was informed that the Mexican authorities thought it was a case of human trafficking as she said she was coming to see "her friend" and that the address of the hotel "was a surprise" which was standard MO for sex traffickers in Mexico. After about six hours of communicating with the Consul and sending them the Marriage cert and hotel reservations - the Mexicans finally released her, though the airlines put her luggage in storage. She was happy to see me initially and hugged me and rubbed my shoulders a little on the way.

She said she was under stress and in the hotel we ended up with separate beds since I was late as a result of all BS with immigration, I lost the Honeymoon suite for 3 days. After she took a shower, I tried to kiss her but she said to please not "be intimate tonight" due to stress. Later in the night we held hands but I did not escalate. Later she went to the lobby to make a phone call. My mother later told me that she called her and my wife cried the whole time saying that she flew to Mexico "to break up with me."

Day 2: In the morning, we went to breakfast - she presented me with 3 ultimatums.

1) We are "friends"
2) I want a separate room ($1500 with me only having $2000 left for the trip)
3) I want a flight back to Russia

I stonewalled her at first - playing the Alpha Man to ignore her request. Wanted for us to take some photos together (requirement by USCIS for a spousal visa) as I took the scenic ride with her in my rental yet she refused. She stated that she wanted to hang out in the Hard Rock Cafe later. She tried to bring up the "friends" thing again and I said I would make her walk, which shut her up. Next, we drove back to the airport to unsuccessfully retreat her baggage but Turkish airlines were closed.

When we drove back, she asked on getting some dark wine and local SIMS, I obliged. Later, I invited her to go to a romantic restaurant on stilts, she refused. The water ocean was stormy so we could not swim so just walked alongside the sea. I began enjoying some cocktails in the pool instead while she was on her phone taking selfies. I gave her my shirt to wear at night as she had none of her own (they were in the luggage) she said that she was going to talk to a psychologist at night. She complained about the room as it had some shoddy masonry as the bathroom door was too big for the frame and would not close and the balcony was on the side of the road and the master Air Duct rather than the ocean. I was pretty annoyed and was happy to let her leave. As the hotel gave only one key, she later knocked to let her back in, my attempts at a kiss proved unfruitful.

Day 3: We drove to the airport again. The parking there was by the hour so I was annoyed when after we got the luggage - she still wanted to remain to "talk" with the company. I assumed that she was going to talk about a return ticket so I told her that she could take her own taxi. Went to have lunch at a casino and she called me as I was having a Siesta back at the hotel - begging to pick her up as she could not afford a taxi. I made her be polite before taking my time to pick her up. As we drove back, she talked about us having separate rooms and her needing her own space and that we would only see each other during the day - I sarcastically joked that "I only want to see her at night." Trying to make peace, she said that "one of the reasons she came here was to see me" I let her off easy and said I appreciate it. Asked her out to the restaurant on stilts again but she refused and said she would prefer to go to the beach.

Back at the hotel, the staff said I could upgrade to the Honeymoon suite and it was a King sized bed with a view of the pool. My "wife" refused immediately and asked me if I want to discuss it. Still being the Alpha - I refused to discuss and she went to the lobby with her luggage as I stayed in the room. Feeling the relief of not having to deal with all her nagging, I enjoyed watching soccer. A few hours later, a member of hotel staff (dude in his 30s) came to the room and said "my friend" said I promised her a separate room. I told him that it was my wife and not my friend, he apologized and suggested I try to make peace with her which is what I did.

Stepping over my own pride, I get my "wife" her favorite wine and come to the lobby to offer her a walk on the beach - saying I want to make peace. She reluctantly agreed and as we walked on the stormy beach I said that I understand her need to talk and she repeated the three points in a "nice" way and I refused to respond saying that tonight I am just listening and letting her vent. She touched my shoulder, thinking she was consoling me - I took the opportunity to passionately kiss her. She pulled away and acted offended saying that "I am rushing things." I offered another round, she refused saying that she is still on Moscow time and wanted to call her shrink again.

We went back to my room where she took a shower, I put on some romantic music and enjoyed her fashion show. She started complaining again that I was not being serious and that why did I come to her to the lobby to make peace. I told her that was then and now is the time to enjoy music. She put on her yoga pants and hat and said that talking to me was like talking to a wall. I joked that she should try to teach the wall the alphabet and algebra. She asked why did I ever pick her up 8 years ago, I said that she looked cute and that I would have felt guilty before God if I let the opportunity go. She said that she was leaving and I said good riddance.

PS: I felt relief and I chilled with the locals and some Brits. The next morning, I saw her in a beach chair and walked past her for breakfast. She eventually left to another hotel as I went to a museum. After a few days, I asked her if she was alive and if she wanted to meet - she refused. I had fun on my own, sightseeing and fornicating. A week later, I found a beach far away to enjoy and she offered to meet in a mall. I though I would never hear from her again so I rushed to meet her but she tried to control the frame by saying "she is short on time" and that I was an asshole for making her wait in the lobby all night long. I countered by saying that I thought that she wanted to be alone. She continued complaining and I just said that this was all just a tactic - she disrespected me by sating it was a bad tactic and that she was about to leave.

I enjoyed the rest of my trip, seeing the Mayan pyramids. Later, my "wife" said she had nothing to eat, I offered to help when we met, but she insisted that I pay for half of the hotel ($700 out of $1,500) that she paid. I refused and blocked her (as soon as she messaged me that I "harassed her" as I returned to the States.) Unblocked her on my birthday (2 weeks later ) and she apologized. When she returned to Russia and started begging for rent money (she spent all her saving on her own hotel) and again and I said that I only give money to my relatives. She angrily responded that I "promised" to which I answered that I would only help with food but that I would not be a cuck and pay for her "crazy actions" of getting another hotel. Whoever she was sleeping with could pay instead. This hit too close to home for her and she said that I don't have to pay if I do not want to as "she was not my wife." In other words - in full denial. She even said that she changed her mind about marrying me a month after marriage, before we met each other's families! Did she lose her mind or was she LARPING?

Finally, she corresponded with my mother. Than my uncle, in June, went to be with God after a stroke - I offered my wife to give my mom (his sister) condolences and that was the end of communication.

It has not been two months and I am still trying to make sense of what happened so I put up a poll.

I am grateful to God for saving me from an unhappy marriage as I know that I got off easy before I had kids with this girl who clearly was not ready despite the kind words she said in the past. I think I understand better now how Roosh felt about the woman that he wanted to "wife up"

All comments, criticisms and suggestions are appreciated. Do not let my story discourage any of you from making a family under God.
Welcome to marriage things can get tough & woman can be complicated to understand its takes more faith & wisdom to live married than it does to receive healing or move a mountain. You guys were having sex before marriage & were living in sin so when you finally got married it was an anti climax especially for your wife the sex also blinded you & you couldn't see who you were getting married too , Im married 10 years now & 3 children later I also fornicated before marriage with my girlfriend (now wife) Iv experienced this, these things affect your marriage especially in the early days, in my humble opinion you guys brought this suffering on yourselves (as I did) & Im sorry to hear that it had to end this way, be very grateful to God you didnt have any kids, it was also wrong of you to commit adultery (fornicate) while you were still on your honeymoon in mexico, if your wife doesnt want to have sex with you too bad you made your bed now you have to lay in it you have to suffer & endure until things get resolved it doesnt give you the right to sin, your wife now has grounds to divorce you. I wish the best for you & I hope God will lead you where you need to go now
 
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Viktor Zeegelaar

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
No, we dated 7 years ago. I picked her up in Moscow by using Day Game and asking about her phone. Were a couple for a year and had intimacy on and off. When returned to US 5 years ago, was engaged to another girl but still kept in touch with her by Whatsapp and video when the prior engagement broke.
Let this be a lesson to all of us that the type of woman, secularly and materialistically focused with a lack of proper norms, values and faithfulness, that you ''pickup'' through casual dating is just not going to be a faithful, long term, stable partner. Why would she? Her focus is on extracting as much as she can, especially before her 30s as then she's on top of the marketplace. And even after that she will be tempted constantly by dating apps, friends, potential lovers courting her, the need for excitement, the lack of boundaries, the lack of personal control. It will end in disaster, maybe you could've gotten away with it some decades ago, but in this day and age almost 100% guarantee it will fail and cause a lot of trouble down the line.
 
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