A Monk Endorses Return Of Kings

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svenski7

Woodpecker
The Church didn't go wrong with the "evil liberals of the 60s."

The Church went wrong when it all of a sudden decided that usury was OK.

Usury is NOT OK.

Everyone on this forum bitching about Monsanto, Big Bracket Banks, Gov't Bailouts, Feminism and the Modern Workplace -- stop and think: If bank were not allowed to lend at high interest rates (usury) on their FRACTIONAL RESERVES -- would we still have 99% of these problems?

The greed for money is the root of all evil. Someone stood to prosper from allowing usury and interest lending between Christians in the Middle Ages. Before that only Jews could lend with interest ... that's what Shakespeare's Merchant of Venice is about...Usury between Jews and Christians. Unfortunately, the Church did not do due diligence and allowed this "modern lending" to take foot in Christian Europe. Even the Vatican has Opus Bank now (which has been accused of money laundering).
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
@Speakeasy:

Yes, exactly. I know Speakeasy makes a good point about the availability of electronic information for the future, but I'm not so sure. Civilization, to survive, needs caretakers who truly want to preserve it.

Brother Speakeasy may be overlooking the fact that all this electronic data is useless unless the people living at that time care about preserving it.

The reason why the old temples, buildings, manuscripts, instruments, and secrets of past civilizations faded away is because no one cared about preserving them. With the advent of Christianity, for example, there was no one who cared about maintaining the old Greek and Roman temples and buildings. So they deteriorated. The same thing happened with the other relics of the classical world.

Some of the treasures of the ancient world are preserved in only one or two manuscripts. Can you believe that? Some literary treasures existed in only one or two monasteries, moldering away, forgotten on the shelves.

Civilization is perishable. People forget that. Our present age is sewing the seeds of its own ruin by doing all the things we note here at RVF.

In the far future, I can see a situation where there is a mass of electronic data out there that no one cares about, or that everyone has forgotten how to "read".

Until some Champollion comes along, maybe, the scholar who deciphered Egyptian heiroglyphs.
 

NilNisiOptimum

Kingfisher
1) The Christian Bible has a lot of similar threads that the "red pill" espouses. Both New and Old Testaments. In the Old, you have Jezebel. King Ahab let his pagan wife take control and led the kingdom of Israel to the long road of ruin in exile. ROK even had an article about Queen Vashti in the book of Esther, the queen not deferring to the king. http://www.returnofkings.com/11939/a-lesson-for-all-men-including-atheists-from-the-bible

In the New Testament, simply look to the writings of Paul and Peter. 1 Colossians 13:11 has already been mentioned. Paul's letter to the Romans is full of themes our corner of the internet prides itself on. Self-sacrifice, self-improvement, self-restraint. Then there's 1 Peter 3:1-8...
Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.

2) Are we likely to see a widespread revival of traditional religion? In the foreseeable future, I fear not. Our enemies are legion. Academia, media, government all wield a frightening amount of power in our lives and have shown they are intent on stomping out anything that they perceive as a "false idol" (like God, for instance). Frost pointed out the flight from God as an indicator of rising suicide rates a few months back (http://www.thumotic.com/the-coming-suicide-epidemic/). But in time, traditional religion will return, as birthrates among the devout have been higher than that of the non-believers throughout history. With luck, my children will see that day.

3) Traditional religious institutions start with one place. The family. Faith can be passed down almost as easily and your genes. Children need a strong role model in all areas of life, including their spiritual life. Yet that faith can be snuffed out just as easily with weak adherence to doctrine or uninspiring pastors or parents. A sin of omission is still a sin. A pastor that only quotes 1 Peter 3:7 to his congregation without the preceding six verses is doing more harm that good.
 

Glaucon

Ostrich
Gold Member
Plastic books would have an almost infinite life if not destroyed by fire or something drastic like that.
Maybe when the 3D tech will be cheaper we can print our own plastic books from eBooks and create time capsules for the future.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
One if the more interesting threads here for sure.

I was raised Catholic but never bought into any of it. It was only after finding the red pill (10 years later) that religion began to make sense to me, as a structure/guideline for self-improvement and traditionalism.

Through my travels and life abroad, exposure to other religions has been one of the most valuable experiences. Even in short passages (regardless which book), lots of knowledge and insight.
 

Azriel Odin

Pigeon
I find the whole topic of information preservation to be fascinating. It's part of why I am pursuing my current studies (Librarianship and Information Management)

Sad to say, information these days is not in good hands. A worrying amount of the people in this industry are technologically incompetent and politically biased (see: left leaning. In particular, feminist). Surprise surprise, it's a female dominated industry. Concerns like this, about the future of the information we are generating right now, are warranted.

To steer my post back on topic, I think that having people like this man involved in the manosphere is a great thing. That sort of traditional, masculine intellectualism is one of the underpinnings of our community, after all.
 
Good stuff.

I once as a youth considered becoming a priest or monk - at least before puberty hit :)

But I understand his concerns.

He may have a point regarding Game and even the hedonistic pleasure-seeking men that many of us are, who seem to quicken the decline, but ultimately take a swipe at feminism. Also he realizes very well that most PUAs become fathers sooner or later - many becoming more traditionally minded later on.

One leading indicator whenever you have a business or movement that goes contrary towards the current world agendas is that no venture capitalists, no corporations and none of media or academia try to take it up or invest in it.

Think about it:

There is no psychology department which tries to examine and validate the concepts of Game. Sure there are the odd bits here and there and we can find them on Heartiste, but there is no concentrated effort.

There are for example other endeavors that no VCs or corporations dare to invest in: orthomolecular medicine, sound & energy based medicine, various forms of alternative energy creation devices etc. The biggest positive recommendable companies for example in the vitamin world have barely 200 -300 Mio. $ in turnover. Compare it to some of the pharma-owned ones with 7 bio. $ of annual turnover and of course crappy toxic or non-working products.

Now seen from a perspective in the world, if any of the media conglomerates decided to push Game, literature, boot-camps, shows etc. on the public - what would be the size of the market?

I think the number would be close to 1 - 2 billion men who could afford some product. Even conservatively speaking the 200 million men would likely purchase some kind of Game product in the form of books, boot-camps or coachings. The market would be huge - we are talking billions here for years to come, until it would permeate the very essence of male-female interactions so much, that all men would grow up with it. But of course in the wake of it's success it might wipe away movements which are on the agenda plan: feminism, destruction of the family, destruction of traditional relationship patterns, effemination of men.

Thus Game will never ever be pushed by the mainstream simply because it runs contrary to the global agendas - not even one VC will touch it just like they avoid orthomolecular supplement companies or alternative medical approaches, despite the fact that they could easily wipe out even the major alternative family owned companies like Swanson or NOW Foods.

Nonetheless the Game industry - professional teachers, boot-camps, bloggers might grow organically and some of the best may reach stable 7 to 8 digit turnovers in the next decades.
 

lskdfjldsf

Pelican
Orthodox Catechumen
Gold Member
Azriel Odin said:
I find the whole topic of information preservation to be fascinating. It's part of why I am pursuing my current studies (Librarianship and Information Management)

Sad to say, information these days is not in good hands. A worrying amount of the people in this industry are technologically incompetent and politically biased (see: left leaning. In particular, feminist). Surprise surprise, it's a female dominated industry. Concerns like this, about the future of the information we are generating right now, are warranted.

I sold into the industry before - you're in for a nightmare in terms of political correctness / demographics but the field itself is still very relevant today. Most information is stored in databases and electronic archives, but the automation of retrieval is still very limited.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Quintus Curtius said:
To me, his comment raises some interesting discussion points:

1. To what extent does manosphere ("red pill") teachings intersect with traditional religious doctrine?

2. Are we likely to see a revival of traditional religion, as a backlash against feminist excesses?

3. Will traditional institutions continue to function, as they did in the remote past, as preservers of traditional civilization in the face of barbarian onslaughts?

I've been really enjoying this slow but gradual shift in tone of this forum and the culture around me lately. It seems other people are starting to look upwards. That fear they've felt for years is starting to give way to something else whether it be anger or a higher purpose. Welcome to the forum!

.

1. Pretty much everything except the obvious (amassing a lot of notches). Ironically, doing game and pick up can eventually spiritually distitute some individuals which brings them to Christ (my own story). Not everyone will experience this though, but there is a common bond between true Christian men and men of the "red pill".

2. As another poster said, we already have. It's slow, but growing. Christianity flourishes when stuff goes bad. With the standard of living declining and Americans getting more and more miserable, religion will begin to fill the void where materialistic concerns can't be met. In the age of renting, spirituality is one thing you can own.

3. There's going to be a massive re-org similar to the conversion of Soviet Russia to a free market economy. Who knows what institutions will remain. Wealth is disappearing, everyone will be affected.
 

Hardy Daytona

Woodpecker
Gold Member
I'd like to offer a little insight into this debate.
My father's a priest and has been for over 40 years. At first he was a member of the Church of England but in recent years decided to convert to Catholicism.
In his own words he said he felt like the prodigal son returning home.
I don't have an abundance of information as he prefers to keep his home and work life separate (compartmentalization - sound practice) but from what I understand he was becoming more and more disheartened over the years by the liberalization of the general synod and it's abandonment of traditional values, most notably demonstrated by the decision to allow women bishops.
This would seem to evidence that even some sections of the church are not immune to the encroaching perversion of feminists and liberals.
Therefore, I would conclude that it is unlikely that people will look to religious institutions for traditional value practices.
After all, how many times have you read/heard about how the church need to 'modernize' or face redundancy?
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Hardy Daytona said:
I'd like to offer a little insight into this debate.
My father's a priest and has been for over 40 years. At first he was a member of the Church of England but in recent years decided to convert to Catholicism.
In his own words he said he felt like the prodigal son returning home.
I don't have an abundance of information as he prefers to keep his home and work life separate (compartmentalization - sound practice) but from what I understand he was becoming more and more disheartened over the years by the liberalization of the general synod and it's abandonment of traditional values, most notably demonstrated by the decision to allow women bishops.
This would seem to evidence that even some sections of the church are not immune to the encroaching perversion of feminists and liberals.
Therefore, I would conclude that it is unlikely that people will look to religious institutions for traditional value practices.
After all, how many times have you read/heard about how the church need to 'modernize' or face redundancy?

Surprisingly, I know of a lot of younger churches that are adhering more to the lessons of the bible and restricting what roles women play in the church.

We're going to be sliding backwards, not forwards when it comes to social responsibility. Personally, I look forward to undoing most of the crap done in the past 25-30 years.
 

Libertas

Crow
Gold Member
Quintus Curtius said:
To me, his comment raises some interesting discussion points:

1. To what extent does manosphere ("red pill") teachings intersect with traditional religious doctrine?

To some extent I think it does, but it's a fuzzy area. Parts of it teach you to live a somewhat libertine lifestyle, not caring about the plan that society has laid out for you and push yourself to higher limits. That's the only way to truly become a great man.

But at the same time the emphasis on discipline and self-denial intersects nicely with some of the monastic lifestyles in the past.

And then you have traditional sex roles and the like, but I think this is somewhat of a fuzzy area too. The guy is right that "game" often leads to a sort of neo-reactionary viewpoint because once you reject the notion of equality between the sexes (and thereby rejecting feminism prima facie, let alone all its other nonsense), it becomes easier and even inevitable to reject other tenets of progressive, Cultural Marxist philosophy.

On the other hand there is a fundamental belief in Christian thought that all of man is equal before God and this I would argue was the fountainhead of all the progressive philosophy that came after, so to me, it's a grey area overall.

2. Are we likely to see a revival of traditional religion, as a backlash against feminist excesses?

At this point I don't think so. There is a growing backlash against feminism, but it isn't heavily religious in origin. There's some of it there, but it's a pretty wide tent at this point.

I don't really see a turn to religiosity in the future of the West unless some things really get bad.

3. Will traditional institutions continue to function, as they did in the remote past, as preservers of traditional civilization in the face of barbarian onslaughts?

Possibly. The Church will always be doing something, but there are more fountainheads of knowledge now than there were in the 5th century when the Western Roman Empire collapsed so there would be more than just the Church preserving things.
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
^^^

Saaaaammmmulus.

I have been waiting to see you make an appearance here, man!

We need your enlightened input on this issue.

(And as for how long it will take before religion is considered a hate crime, my guess is 20 years tops)
 

Grit

Kingfisher
Just thinking today about Christian good vs. evil. Ask most priests today this: "Can you name off some evil people based on what is considered 'bad' by Christian teaching?"

I can't imagine getting anything but tepid answers. When in reality Christians should be laying smack down. Fat people are evil. Divorcees are evil. Bastard children are evil. And oppressive heretics like all of the Persian gulf are definitely evil.
 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Grit said:
Just thinking today about Christian good vs. evil. Ask most priests today this: "Can you name off some evil people based on what is considered 'bad' by Christian teaching?"

I can't imagine getting anything but tepid answers. When in reality Christians should be laying smack down. Fat people are evil. Divorcees are evil. Bastard children are evil. And oppressive heretics like all of the Persian gulf are definitely evil.

The thing about evil is that it cannot sustain itself. Evil regimes feast upon the good until there is no good suckers left to consume, then they turn on each other.

I think the world we are in today is "peak population." This century's wars, civil chaos, and economic collapses will shrink the world's population by anywhere from 15-30%, no problem.
 

Samseau

Eagle
Orthodox
Gold Member
Quintus Curtius said:
^^^

Saaaaammmmulus.

I have been waiting to see you make an appearance here, man!

We need your enlightened input on this issue.

(And as for how long it will take before religion is considered a hate crime, my guess is 20 years tops)

You should invite that monk to the forum. He can probably enlighten us all. Just tell him to stay out of the game forum for his own sake.
 

Quintus Curtius

Crow
Gold Member
Samseau said:
Quintus Curtius said:
^^^

Saaaaammmmulus.

I have been waiting to see you make an appearance here, man!

We need your enlightened input on this issue.

(And as for how long it will take before religion is considered a hate crime, my guess is 20 years tops)

You should invite that monk to the forum. He can probably enlighten us all. Just tell him to stay out of the game forum for his own sake.


I was actually thinking the same thing. You really should read his comments in my latest ROK article. He's very polite, erudite, and considerate. He also seems to have a lot of practical, real-world experience in other things. I'll try to get his email address from the comments he left and ask him to join.
 
1. To what extent does manosphere ("red pill") teachings intersect with traditional religious doctrine?

Men chase after women thinking they will love them unconditionally much like their mothers did. Shattering this illusion, shatters many other illusions, for one the idea of comfort. You realise that everything you get in life, comes from the quality of life you lead. Your actions, your thoughts, it can be daunting to realise that this can collapse and you are fundamentally on your own. Paradoxically such a realisation will make you work harder and take on an attitude which is very positive in the manner of getting things done.

Want to get better with women ? Go out and approach.

Want to make money ? Work, learn a new skill and push hard.

Want an interesting life ? Go traveling, keep your wits with you.

So where does religion play into this ? when you realising that there is no absolute to be found in the material, you will look further a field for such deeper sensations. Much like after a work out or engaging in something constructive, you get this positive creative buzz. Tapping into a path of religion/spiritualism, meditating, leads to a wholeness which you just fail to get with short term gratification.


2. Are we likely to see a revival of traditional religion, as a backlash against feminist excesses?

We are already seeing this, I believe the conflict in the Middle East, is a direct result of the "clash of civilisations" that Huntington mentioned after the Cold War. You have a democratic order which wishes everyone to become a easily managed politically correct consumer. Then you have the polar opposite of that, with Islam probably equally irrational but on the stance of preserving a non material, patriarchal order. This is the ultimate clash if you ever could see one, far shadowing the crusades. Make no mistake about it, the seemingly atheist West, has all the same religious sentiments as the so called dogmatic types, which it seeks to undermine.

Even in the U.K, around Inner London, well most urban areas now, you see this growing counter culture movement growing. Not in the Hipster/Vice tv fashion, but with African christians, muslims all rejecting this culture on the grounds of satanic conspiracy, but fundamentally they are aware that only a rich country can be so irresponsible like this. People are turning to Islam for this grounding certainty, especially those from inner cities, who come from different non Asian backgrounds. Albeit not in large numbers, it is certainly growing.



3. Will traditional institutions continue to function, as they did in the remote past, as preservers of traditional civilization in the face of barbarian onslaughts?


First I believe its important to not conjure up images of tradition being akin to belonging in the path. Traditions were trial and tested for thousands of years in order to become so rigidly enforced by successful civilisations. They are merely practical organic functions, I state that they are organic, because although they required force and government legislation in some cases. They were no where near as enforced as incentivised as the cultural revolution of the 1960s, and all of their "liberalisation". We have a lot of incentives and unnatural pressure to create the state of affairs which we have right now in the Anglosphere.

I geniunely don't see this holding any weight if we were to have a significant economic depression. People would revert quickly back to traditional gender roles. Those who are too far gone, simply won't survive, same thing will happen if we went back to a free market.

Either way i don't see the Othordox church in Russia and EE backing down. They have been overtly attacked for a long time, and although factions of them are liberal. There are still plenty who are intellectually aware of whats going on.
 

Celtic

Woodpecker
If the red pill is about seeing the world how it really is and not how we'd want it to be, then I don't see how a religion based on a sky god of a desert tribe 4,000 years ago plays into that. Religion did have a benefit in keeping marriages stable and keeping women in line, but that's not a good reason to believe it, the only question should be if it really is true or not.

We and the Catholic Church share a common enemy in Feminism, but I don't think they are really our friends. Under the Church's teachings, all of us are almost certainly going to hell. They teach that sex before marriage is a mortal sin which will send you to hell. The idea that something which is pleasurable for everyone involved will get you tortured not just for 100 years, not just billion years but facing a torture more exruciating than anything on Earth for all eternity- that idea is so stupid and evil that nobody would ever believe it except for religion.

I grew up in that religion. The idea that if you slip up and then get hit by a bus before you make it to confession leads to eternal torture is a mind fuck if there ever was one.
 
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