Academia is toxic to red pill men, and why I'm dropping my PhD program

[komatiite]

I was choosing between PhD in biological sciences or professional school and decided to go with the latter. Glad I did. My sister is getting her PhD in the mathematical field and calls me all the time telling me the bull shit she has to go through. Professors stealing her research work, adding their names to her paper(but not contributing shit), shitty whiny students etc. Sometimes listening to it sounds like an unbelievable soap opera filled with drama betrayal gossip, everything but murder.

-CD

Haha, that is hilarious! In undergrad I did a big field research project (geology) and some cocksucker prof who I talked to once asking for help interpreting well logs (maybe a 10 min discussion) came up to me after editing it and said since he helped me out, he should be a co-author with the actual prof who I was out working with instead of an acknowledgement. I just shrugged and said OK, then he fucking puts the paper I wrote all by myself on his CV on his personal web site. The paper was a 20 page piece of shit Undergrad honours thesis I wrote in like 4 days before the deadline!

 

[RexImperator]

Hmmm. I was recently accepted into an engineering graduate program but I'm having second thoughts.

 

[Peregrine]

I was choosing between PhD in biological sciences or professional school and decided to go with the latter. Glad I did. My sister is getting her PhD in the mathematical field and calls me all the time telling me the bull shit she has to go through. Professors stealing her research work, adding their names to her paper(but not contributing shit), shitty whiny students etc. Sometimes listening to it sounds like an unbelievable soap opera filled with drama betrayal gossip, everything but murder.

-CD

Haha, that is hilarious! In undergrad I did a big field research project (geology) and some cocksucker prof who I talked to once asking for help interpreting well logs (maybe a 10 min discussion) came up to me after editing it and said since he helped me out, he should be a co-author with the actual prof who I was out working with instead of an acknowledgement. I just shrugged and said OK, then he fucking puts the paper I wrote all by myself on his CV on his personal web site. The paper was a 20 page piece of shit Undergrad honours thesis I wrote in like 4 days before the deadline!

Doesn't matter, no one will read it anyway so no one will realize he claimed credit for junk. Academia CVs are judged by how long they are, not the quality of the work on them (as even peers generally are not capable of/could not give two shits about telling the difference).

It's just one big racket.

Cf. private sector CVs where you have to display real achievements and skills.

 

[Peregrine]

but when it comes to paying for services, I expect a service to be delivered, rather than the service provider acting like they are doing me a favour by allowing me to hand them all my cash.

If you are offering an educational service, I expect that you will provide me with the resources to learn what you teach.

Of course, educational institutions don't consider themselves service industry and have a major stick up their ass about how spectacular they are, so this isn't going to change any time soon.

Damn straight. One of the problems is that people are taking their advice from the same source as their education. It's a conflict of interest. If you ask your mechanic 'should the clutch be replaced', he's more than likely going to say yes, even if the clutch has another 5 years on it.

I get why - the teacher is in a position of intellectual authority, and you're following and accepting everything he says, it only seems natural to accept his advice too, even if that advice is in his interest but not yours.

People are quick to say 'it's the students fault', but this isn't reasonable. Young people are naive and inexperienced. We never say its a baby's fault when it does something foolish - for we can't expect the same personal responsibility from a clueless youth as we can a world-weary adult. And like in this situation - the true responsibility lies on the shoulders of parents.

Parents are by and large, doing a shit, lazy job, in a massive part of the population. Their idea of checking up on their child's progress is 'did he get an A on his report card?'. They don't treat school as a service for their children, they treat it as a way to abdicate responsibility for the rearing of their children. It doesn't matter what the teachers are teaching their children and telling them to do - as long as the child is in school they pat themselves on the back and consider their job done. As long as they put away money for little Johnny's college fund, and he 'goes to college', they can delude themselves "I've fulfilled my responsibilities as a parent".

I'm of the opinion that families should be utilizing the services of career advisers much more. Agencies completely independent of the school and university system should be advising young people what to do, if parents feel unqualified to do it themselves, rather than the schools.

I was nodding along until the last paragraph. You blame parents for abdicating responsibility to the school system, but then suggest they abdicate responsibility to a career adviser? Parents should advise their kids on all aspects of life, including future careers.

 

[Easy_C]

The major disconnect between education and the results they deliver is a key sticking point that badly needs to be resolved.

So far I've only seen a single exception: MBA's. The reason for this is that MBA program rankings are heavily impacted by how successful the programs involved are at job placement, specifically the % of alumni who find full time employment and the average salaries that jobs pay. If you ask me we should start ranking other career oriented academic programs (like engineering, computer science, and law/medical schools) primarily in terms of how successful their alumni are at securing meaningful employment.

 

[ordinaryleastsquared]

I can speak from the perspective of having a Ph.D. My education was costly, time consuming and required a lot of sacrifice. During the process, I contemplated quitting on several occasions but I stuck it out. My Ph.D and work experience places me in a position where I am an expert in my field. At the very minimum, it is an insurance policy as it provides me with many options for employment in my field that I would not have had if I stopped my education after a Masters.

In addition to a well paid job, I supplement my income with a consulting practice that is 100 percent on my terms with regard to choosing when and how I work. The compensation for this is very good.

Pursuing a Ph.D is not for everyone. I dont know if I would do it again. However, I am glad to report that I am seeing the benefits right now and I have a sense it will provide me with opportunities in the future I never would have had without the degree.

Are you in academia? Its hard to go from tenure track position to another tenure track position in a different department. Getting a phd and going into an applied field isn't as bad of a bet for sure.

 

[Dantes]

I'm not in academia. My degree is in an applied field. I have had offers for academic positions but these positions would be a pay cut at my present salary.

 

[Phoenix]

I'm of the opinion that families should be utilizing the services of career advisers much more. Agencies completely independent of the school and university system should be advising young people what to do, if parents feel unqualified to do it themselves, rather than the schools.

I was nodding along until the last paragraph. You blame parents for abdicating responsibility to the school system, but then suggest they abdicate responsibility to a career adviser? Parents should advise their kids on all aspects of life, including future careers.

Sure, but parents aren't always qualified to do so. They wouldn't, for instance, give their children forex trading advice if they knew nothing about it. Division of labour is fine, its not an abdication of responsibility so long as there is due diligence, and a specialized career researcher is going to do a better job than a parent who works in a bakery. Leaving children to the mercy of the school system alone, with its conflicts of interest, is not due diligence, and thus an abdication of responsibility.

 

[Aer]

I'm starting my Master's in September. It's in a semi-humanities oriented field (International Relations) but they teach a ton of statistics and mathematical analysis.

Also, the internship opportunities with big international orgs are top notch, and the school is very well regarded among the elites in the IOs. Also, it's a very, very small school.

And it's cheap as hell.

 

[The Beast1]

Hmmm. I was recently accepted into an engineering graduate program but I'm having second thoughts.

What are the details? If you have a solid plan that you don't plan on deviating, graduate study is good especially if you can get the bill to be little to nothing.

I wouldn't get into any student loan debt unless there is a very clear path from start to finish, something that I didn't do. :dodgy:

I will only go to graduate school if my employer pays for part of it.

 

[RexImperator]

Hmmm. I was recently accepted into an engineering graduate program but I'm having second thoughts.

What are the details? If you have a solid plan that you don't plan on deviating, graduate study is good especially if you can get the bill to be little to nothing.

I wouldn't get into any student loan debt unless there is a very clear path from start to finish, something that I didn't do. :dodgy:

I will only go to graduate school if my employer pays for part of it.

I think that's pretty smart.

It's a program for Mechanical Engineering and they gave me a scholarship but it's a very expensive school and that only partly covers the cost. It might not be worth it. I'm planning to visit in person before I decide. My undergraduate major was in a different field so I might have to suck it up for one year before getting full funding.

 

[Tytalus]

Hmmm. I was recently accepted into an engineering graduate program but I'm having second thoughts.

What are the details? If you have a solid plan that you don't plan on deviating, graduate study is good especially if you can get the bill to be little to nothing.

I wouldn't get into any student loan debt unless there is a very clear path from start to finish, something that I didn't do. :dodgy:

I will only go to graduate school if my employer pays for part of it.

I think that's pretty smart.

It's a program for Mechanical Engineering and they gave me a scholarship but it's a very expensive school and that only partly covers the cost. It might not be worth it. I'm planning to visit in person before I decide. My undergraduate major was in a different field so I might have to suck it up for one year before getting full funding.

Well, thing is the M-Eng if your undergraduate is in a different field can give you a leg up into engineering work, which can broaden your employability. Even part payment (50%+) is better than 0.

If it will put on track to getting your Professional Mechanical Engineering (or P-Eng) certificate then do it.

 

[DickDastardly]

delete

 

[Suits]

Currently finishing up a PhD and I agree 100% with the OP.

It's about as useful as a chocolate fucking teapot.

Now to figure out what the fuck to do?

Teach English in China like all the other Ph.Ds?

 

[Tyroc7]

I have been in academia for several years and now have tenure in an applied social science/professional field. I am at a major research university in a major city. So my experiences might not apply to everyone (e.g. adjunct in a small teaching college in rural Texas).

I think the discipline you choose is important. Writing off the social sciences is too broad. For example, economics is a social science and a PhD in economics is very marketable. In general, fields that have employment options outside academia will have higher salaries and better working conditions. There will also be opportunities to consult.

At research universities professors have a lot of autonomy. Your class hours (4-8 hours a week depending on your teaching load) and office hours (2-4 hours) are your only set times. If you are in the hard sciences you will probably have to spend a lot of time in the lab. But in most other fields all you need is a power outlet and a laptop and you are good to go. With rise of digital books/journals you don't even have to go to the library that much anymore.

There are many opportunities to travel on other people's dime. Conferences, invited talks, etc. I have been to Europe, Canada, Hawaii, Japan and all over the US this way.

It is true that many campuses are a hotbed of radical feminism. But this stuff is easy to ignore. If you are teaching something like statistics or programming there is not much reason for this to come up. Even if you are teaching a controversial topic like the history of racism you can and should present both sides of the debate and usually that suffices to keep people from getting too excited.

Obviously you can't game women in your class. But on most campuses other students and graduate students are fair game. Plus there are opportunities to travel (see above).

 

[spydersuit]

3 years later, where did you land?

 

[flyinghorse]

I studied a lot of social science modules/electives whilst studying for law.

What people may not realise is that social science isn't just Marxism and Feminism. You can study the sociology of healthcare, pensions, crime, prison reform, ethics, and religion. It can actually be a fascinating subject that will offer you much insight into society.

I wrote one or two right leaning essays on crime reduction and pensions and received top marks.

 

[tomtud]

PhD - plumbing, heating and drywall.

This was the abbreviation we jokingly used while I was an undergrad. Turns out, those in our circle who went into these fields and avoided the white collar field are actually doing quite well.hvac techs and plumbers can make a decent living. Drywall is a bit heavy and dusty, but if you work like an animal you can make money.

 

[spydersuit]

I have 2 advanced degrees. I am over 250k per year. Most people I know with graduate degrees are in the 95-150K salary range. I know a few in the 70-95k range. Its a fact that people with Advanced degrees make more in their lifetimes than those who do not have them. The more education you receive, the more likely you are to be wealthy. Most of the executives that I deal with in the tech industry have PhDs or MS degrees. The main problem is that you end up working for the man (corporate/government/academia). I needed the high level education myself and the military paid my way. If I didn’t have those resouces available I would have started a business.

Here is 1 reference, and there are hundreds of others that say the same thing about income and education:

https://repository.library.georgeto...egepayoff-complete.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
—-

I am really curious to see how it turned out for the OP.

 

[spydersuit]

Tomtud- hanging drywall is a shitty job for any guy that wants to bang a lot of women. Not too many ladies on the job site, shitty long hours, unpredictable sales, flaky sub contractors, low hourly wage, not enough money for benefits, no vacation, and is hard on your body. Electrician and wireless netorking would be the way to go in the current market.