Acquaintance to Wife

[Cynllo]

Several years ago I read about 1/4 of Roosh's most popular book. The only thing I remember from it now was one part that said when approaching a girl your aim is to get her to ask you a question about you. From a similar place I remember Gavin McInnes advising men to treat wooing women as to if you find a wild horse you want to tame. First you have to approach it slowly, not making any noises. Whisper to it slowly. Slowly working up to the point when you can touch it gently. And when the time is right, you throw the reins over it's head and take it home with you. Although the intentions behind these pieces of advice are wrong, the nature of women is broadly correct.

My experience with women is, I think, that they either showed instant interest in me or they never showed any interest in me. So all of my prospects have essentially selected me. It hasn't worked the other way round.

It's also my experience that there are women who will talk to you (and the context may be implied that she could consider you), but that they put very little effort into communicating. You will carry the conversation, and they will give short replies, ask few if any questions. My observation is you can talk at length with anyone. But if one party is not really interested, then it will be as described above.

It's my observation that some sort of social context makes a huge difference, even if it's quite tenuous. A woman will behave very differently if she is introduced to you by a mutual friend, rather than, say, she serves you in a supermarket. But it can be less direct than that.

I'm also aware, counter to claims that all women are hopping on Chads before falling off at 33 and marrying a beta schlub, that there are quite a lot of women that are shy, quiet, reserved, don't like going out much, like staying at home, read books etc. And these type of women, maybe as much as 30%, are hard to meet and break the ice with.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how you may pass from the acquaintance/stranger phase to someone she is interested to ask questions, without using game?

 

[TheosisSeeker]

In my experience 'game' defined by approaching strangers is the worst way to meet women.

If you look at the numbers how many approaches do men do before meeting a quality woman? 1000? It's like spamming.

It goes against human nature in how people connect and form bonds.

So you need to either have that connection initially through your social group or if not, create repeat interactions.

I always had the most success in situations where for whatever reason I saw the woman repeatedly over a period of time.

Right now my lifestyle is such that I work remote and my hobbies are combat sports with 95% men. (The women that remain you usually don't want)

Depending on your location, the percentage of quality women may be low (my case) or it takes a significant initial investment of time and energy to join new groups and establish yourself.

This has been the only consistent way to overcome the stranger effect as you call it.

 

[Prores]

I think Fr Peter says it will here

 

[Pete345]

Is it my impression, or is this turning into another PUA/dating advice forum? Maybe because I couldn't care less about those things it is just my impression. Correct me, if I'm in the wrong, here.

 

[TheosisSeeker]

Is it my impression, or is this turning into another PUA/dating advice forum? Maybe because I couldn't care less about those things it is just my impression. Correct me, if I'm in the wrong, here.

I agree. The response by Prores above should be autoposted on every dating advice post.

 

[Javelin]

Is it my impression, or is this turning into another PUA/dating advice forum? Maybe because I couldn't care less about those things it is just my impression. Correct me, if I'm in the wrong, here.

After all it is a courtship subforum, even though the advice seeking part is repetitive.

 

[Viktor Zeegelaar]

Several years ago I read about 1/4 of Roosh's most popular book. The only thing I remember from it now was one part that said when approaching a girl your aim is to get her to ask you a question about you. From a similar place I remember Gavin McInnes advising men to treat wooing women as to if you find a wild horse you want to tame. First you have to approach it slowly, not making any noises. Whisper to it slowly. Slowly working up to the point when you can touch it gently. And when the time is right, you throw the reins over it's head and take it home with you. Although the intentions behind these pieces of advice are wrong, the nature of women is broadly correct.

My experience with women is, I think, that they either showed instant interest in me or they never showed any interest in me. So all of my prospects have essentially selected me. It hasn't worked the other way round.

It's also my experience that there are women who will talk to you (and the context may be implied that she could consider you), but that they put very little effort into communicating. You will carry the conversation, and they will give short replies, ask few if any questions. My observation is you can talk at length with anyone. But if one party is not really interested, then it will be as described above.

It's my observation that some sort of social context makes a huge difference, even if it's quite tenuous. A woman will behave very differently if she is introduced to you by a mutual friend, rather than, say, she serves you in a supermarket. But it can be less direct than that.

I'm also aware, counter to claims that all women are hopping on Chads before falling off at 33 and marrying a beta schlub, that there are quite a lot of women that are shy, quiet, reserved, don't like going out much, like staying at home, read books etc. And these type of women, maybe as much as 30%, are hard to meet and break the ice with.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how you may pass from the acquaintance/stranger phase to someone she is interested to ask questions, without using game?

Social context plays a big role indeed. Social status is one of the key factors for women in deciding the position of a man. That's why, I think, the traditional way of families introducing one to one another etc, and even arranged marriages to an extent, was such a good pratice. Now there's so much confusion and people wasting countless hours on trying to ''figure it all out''.

I think you shouldn't worry too much about the more practical things like what you should say and things like that. Just focus on yourself and your own personal growth - spiritual, growing into your masculinity, building some skills that are useful in the world, building a network, being of value to your network, therefore gaining some status. Become a respectable man, someone that can be respected by himself, his community, and women. These things will be noticed. In the long term it's not about how nice your hair looks or who asks the first or last question, but more practically, what you bring to the table, and if you have basic social skills, then the rest should just follow naturally. Build yourself and the women in your given context will be absorbed to come to you to a degree, although of course you will have to make the first step if you're interested in a long term relationship/wife.

 

[Optimus Princeps]

It's also my experience that there are women who will talk to you (and the context may be implied that she could consider you), but that they put very little effort into communicating. You will carry the conversation, and they will give short replies, ask few if any questions. My observation is you can talk at length with anyone. But if one party is not really interested, then it will be as described above.

I've found this is a key indicator when talking to a girl. I'll ask her her name after talking for a bit and if she doesn't ask me my name back then 9 times outta 10 she's not interested. But if she does and seems engaged she's definitely interested and you can ask her out.

 

[prisonplanet]

I've found this is a key indicator when talking to a girl. I'll ask her her name after talking for a bit and if she doesn't ask me my name back then 9 times outta 10 she's not interested. But if she does and seems engaged she's definitely interested and you can ask her out.

Generally true, although sometimes a woman is interested but nervous, and won't engage out of nervousness, just like guys can be. I've actually found this to be true the more pure a woman is. I think over time women learn the female equivalent of game and become better at engaging with men, but it's not exactly a virtue. Whereas really pure women tend to be very shy around men they are interested in and it can come across as lack of interest. If she's really pure AND really interested, she might even momentarily forget what her name is.

 

[Blade Runner]

Yes, the asking of her name and continuing on with conversation to see if she asks is absolutely a tell. It works, and I recall some of the best interactions I had were the ones interested in my name after approaching and being friendly and a little flirty, or interesting. Good call, Opti

 

[Optimus Princeps]

In my experience 'game' defined by approaching strangers is the worst way to meet women.

If you look at the numbers how many approaches do men do before meeting a quality woman? 1000? It's like spamming.

It goes against human nature in how people connect and form bonds.

So you need to either have that connection initially through your social group or if not, create repeat interactions.

I always had the most success in situations where for whatever reason I saw the woman repeatedly over a period of time.

Right now my lifestyle is such that I work remote and my hobbies are combat sports with 95% men. (The women that remain you usually don't want)

Depending on your location, the percentage of quality women may be low (my case) or it takes a significant initial investment of time and energy to join new groups and establish yourself.

This has been the only consistent way to overcome the stranger effect as you call it.

I know your banned RIP but still want to reply to this. I agree that just cold approaching is pretty low return. From my experience it was okay a few years ago, but now it's basically a meme and waste of time. What isn't a waste of time is talking to girls in your day to day life, since you're not going out of your way to do it and it's more natural to start a conversation (ie girl working at a restaurant you're at, at the gym, or wherever else you already are where theres girls). This is a lot better because you can naturally talk about something that you both already have in common and it doesn't feel as bad when it doesn't work since you waste like 30 seconds of your time only and you're overcoming any fears or insecurities since you can walk away knowing you're confident enough to approach a cute girl when almost every single other guy she comes across doesn't have the balls to and she'll only get approached at a bar when a guy's had like 6 drinks and makes some pathetic attempt with a terrible opener.

Expecting to meet a woman at church is pretty much a meme unless you're protestant where there are actually single non-fat girls there, but who knows you might get lucky. I think the easiest way is to meet girls through friends since you already have social proofing and it's the most natural. But that brings us to the unfortunate reality that even with that, attractive girls in their 20's just aren't all that interested in going on dates and usually they don't even have any better options, they just don't care that much, while men are driven by testosterone for physical attraction, women's low testosterone only drives them for validation, which the average 22 year old girl working a dead end job at starbucks gets enough of through dating apps, instagram dm's/likes, and getting to go out with her girlfriends twice a week to reject drunk guys. AND if you get past all that and you happen to catch one of these girls where their hormones and mood are such where they actually meet up with you for a date, usually they'll show you so many red flags on the first date that I instantly have to disqualify them for a relationship. Even after this, say she seems like a good girl, her parents are still together, she's feminine, low body count but maybe one or two long-term relationships in college, and she's likely protestant, then that's the best you're going to get. But, due to our culture, even though she'll want marriage and kids and probably be a good wife, she's going to expect you to still sleep with her before marriage and the amount of girls who would want to wait and qualify for everything else is basically a rounding error in America.

It is a tough position us guys, especially in our 20's are in, where while we want a relationship, marriage, and family, as Christians we're not able to get that no matter how we play it, and with our hormones and energy it is a big struggle to attempt to remain celibate through that. I am not advocating doing the opposite, but simply relaying the struggle and issues that it presents for men due to our culture and women here.

It feels like all of this discussion is a broken record though, that has been rehashed in the have you given up on women thread and many others, by guys like @Blade Runner explaining it a lot better than I can, with the conclusion being that if you want to remain celibate until marriage and have a wife with traditional values to raise a family, you have to go overseas to a less toxic culture. It's like saying I hid 5000 treasure chests in random buildings across America and there's over a million guys here looking for one. We can work on our strategy for searching efficiently and discuss the best way to find one, praying that God will choose us over the other 999,999 guys to find one, or I can just go to Eastern Europe where every other building has a treasure chest that's unclaimed, and enough for most of the guys there to find one.

 

[Optimus Senior]

I know your banned RIP but still want to reply to this. I agree that just cold approaching is pretty low return. From my experience it was okay a few years ago, but now it's basically a meme and waste of time. What isn't a waste of time is talking to girls in your day to day life, since you're not going out of your way to do it and it's more natural to start a conversation (ie girl working at a restaurant you're at, at the gym, or wherever else you already are where theres girls). This is a lot better because you can naturally talk about something that you both already have in common and it doesn't feel as bad when it doesn't work since you waste like 30 seconds of your time only and you're overcoming any fears or insecurities since you can walk away knowing you're confident enough to approach a cute girl when almost every single other guy she comes across doesn't have the balls to and she'll only get approached at a bar when a guy's had like 6 drinks and makes some pathetic attempt with a terrible opener.

Expecting to meet a woman at church is pretty much a meme unless you're protestant where there are actually single non-fat girls there, but who knows you might get lucky. I think the easiest way is to meet girls through friends since you already have social proofing and it's the most natural. But that brings us to the unfortunate reality that even with that, attractive girls in their 20's just aren't all that interested in going on dates and usually they don't even have any better options, they just don't care that much, while men are driven by testosterone for physical attraction, women's low testosterone only drives them for validation, which the average 22 year old girl working a dead end job at starbucks gets enough of through dating apps, instagram dm's/likes, and getting to go out with her girlfriends twice a week to reject drunk guys. AND if you get past all that and you happen to catch one of these girls where their hormones and mood are such where they actually meet up with you for a date, usually they'll show you so many red flags on the first date that I instantly have to disqualify them for a relationship. Even after this, say she seems like a good girl, her parents are still together, she's feminine, low body count but maybe one or two long-term relationships in college, and she's likely protestant, then that's the best you're going to get. But, due to our culture, even though she'll want marriage and kids and probably be a good wife, she's going to expect you to still sleep with her before marriage and the amount of girls who would want to wait and qualify for everything else is basically a rounding error in America.

It is a tough position us guys, especially in our 20's are in, where while we want a relationship, marriage, and family, as Christians we're not able to get that no matter how we play it, and with our hormones and energy it is a big struggle to attempt to remain celibate through that. I am not advocating doing the opposite, but simply relaying the struggle and issues that it presents for men due to our culture and women here.

It feels like all of this discussion is a broken record though, that has been rehashed in the have you given up on women thread and many others, by guys like @Blade Runner explaining it a lot better than I can, with the conclusion being that if you want to remain celibate until marriage and have a wife with traditional values to raise a family, you have to go overseas to a less toxic culture. It's like saying I hid 5000 treasure chests in random buildings across America and there's over a million guys here looking for one. We can work on our strategy for searching efficiently and discuss the best way to find one, praying that God will choose us over the other 999,999 guys to find one, or I can just go to Eastern Europe where every other building has a treasure chest that's unclaimed, and enough for most of the guys there to find one.

Now son, I can feel the frustration in your post. It is not like in my day when good women were easy to find. We didn't know how good we had it back then! If I could go back and change things I certainly would have said NO to the sex drugs and rock n roll. However, despite what you said you do NOT have my blessing to go to Eastern Europe because I need you here to take care of me in my old age ;-)

(And maybe because I would miss you)

 

[Sephorax]

While I criticized "online dating" a lot, it is one of the fastest way to put yourself out there and get dates. Even with "normal-ish women". Especially if your social circle is lacking women. Which mine is. Most of my friends are in relationships and do not have female friends that are open to dating.

Online dating is way more effective quantity-wise than doing PUA type style now.

Although quality of women is much higher in real life since you control who you connect with. Tinder seems to be made for women primarily.

I prefer real life 100% but I think using both is even better.

I agree if a girl is into you, you will notice. If she is "iffy" about you it ain't worth it.