Adventure or Money? and life options for those in their mid 20's. Advice please

[Nascimento]

Great thread; if only newbies were as efficient as I am with the forum search feature.

I'm still in my young 20's, but admittedly I started this decade with a large focus on adventure. I'm gradually realizing the importance of money, which is crucially more important. But, it would be a waste to focus entirely on the latter, I believe. Like Travesty said, it's huge to get girls out of your system. Otherwise you'll be prone to resentment later on, which could be tough to overcome.

Partying itself has never been my calling though. Of course I enjoy it. But not nearly as much as those partying every single weekend, drinking their health and livers away and draining their bank accounts needlessly.

 

[WhatTheFuck]

It's hard for me to believe, but somehow it's been almost a year since I started this thread. I wish I had better news to report, i.e. a massive success story I achieved as a result of following members' advice. However, that would be a lie. Unfortunately, my future is still just as uncertain as ever.

The search for clarity and direction in my life has been a long process, and honestly, I've pretty much given up on trying to plan it all out too far ahead. I think for now at least, I'm just going to keep kicking the can down the road. My main priority currently is just maintaining as much freedom and flexibility in my life as possible so that when I do finally see the right opportunity, I'll be ready to attack.

With modern society and culture in such a state of flux, I think letting yourself get too locked into any one job, relationship, ideology, etc, is a surefire recipe for disaster. Yes, I am not currently pursuing a career per say in the traditional sense, and to some it might seem like I am just drifting-- passively coasting through life; just getting by. However, it's been far from a passive process. I am constantly trying new things, making moves, adapting my perspective...really just generally trying to stay open minded + positive, and I would really recommend others in a similar situation do the same.

Anyway, for all those who are curious, here's a quick update on what I've done so far:
-Moved out of my parents house into a 1BR apt in new city
-Taught myself front end web development from scratch, have programmed some Javascript games and picked up some side projects building websites for clients.
-Continued working out (although not as intensely as I'd like), eating healthy, and partying less. Still trying to figure out exactly what role alcohol should play in my life
-Currently working as a server at a restaurant in the luxury hotel industry while I replenish my bank account, hustle a little on my side projects, and try to improve my game. Although I have had moderate success with women in my life, I am not anywhere near 100% satisfied and still have a lot of work to do.

LOTS of ideas, and my brain is constantly working. In the end, I think all I really want is to escape the rat race, retire early, and have some little adventures and good sex along the way.

 

[TheBMan]

Those overnight sensations took years to make. Keep hustling, keep grinding, and keep learning new things and you will see results.

 

[WestIndianArchie]

1. Getting my real estate license, and trying to break into commercial real estate. I know this is highly competitive, and with my limited experience and just a bachelors in Anthropology, I'm not sure how plausible this is. I think I have the drive though. I could become a residential real estate broker, but there is nowhere near the same amount of money to be made. This option will also lock me down to one area for a long period of time.

Commercial real estate is about networks, using your current one, and building out your current one.

You can throw a rock and hit someone who has a degree in the stuff and doesn't work in the industry.

You'd be better off trying to find a mentor in that field rather than a job.

2. Working some menial jobs like kitchen or hospitality for massive hours, while living at my parents house for a while to put some money away. Then moving abroad to take a second shot at digital nomadism where I can focus on just building passive income instead of doing freelance stuff. I don't really like this option though, as living at my parents sucks for my dating life, and I could easily end up right back where I started if the online stuff doesn't work out.

You won't have the energy after a long shift of menial labor to hop on a computer.

3. Continue to satisfy my wanderlust. Get a TEFL and move to South Korea to teach English for a year, where I've heard others say it is possible to save at least $1000 per month. There isn't really an end game with this option, but at least I would have some sort of bankroll then for my next endeavour, while enjoying a foreign country. Everything I have read on here is pretty negative about korean girls though. It would be nice to teach somewhere like Colombia, but then I am not going to save any money...

Fun, but it will essentially be an extended vacation.
Unless you learn Korean and parlay that into some sort of import/export opportunity. Teaching by day and trying to do something on the side is a tall order of business.

4. Take another seasonal job in a national park. It would likely be some shit job, but the potential to have a good time and enjoy awesome recreation is high. I could also probably save a few thousand over the course of a season. However, this isn't going to advance my career, and internet will be bad in these areas so I won't make any passive income progress. Maybe if I wait until the winter season starts I could get a management job, or another tour guide job which would be slightly better...

Also fun, but it's dead end work if you look at it that way.

There is probably money somewhere in that business, but it won't be working for the Fed. It will be some job that they contract to someone outside of the Fed.

5. Working in the oil sands. This could set me up well money wise, and I have the hardworking attitude to be successful. However, I am American which provides some challenges, as well as not having any trades experience. I have also read that with the price of oil plummeting, there have been massive layoffs, and getting into this profession is no longer about just showing up.

It's game over for someone with no skills.

6. Was just offered a job by an adventure travel company in Boston, but for the first few years I would probably just be in a call center doing customer service type shit until I advance in the company. Pay is only 35k. On this salary in Boston I would probably go broke, and the work itself would suck, but there is some potential in the company, and I have never lived in a city before so that would be a good experience at least, while providing me lots of opportunities to meet women.

That's the sort of business you can essentially start yourself. "Creating experiences" is drumming up customers on one side, and then haggling with providers on the other side. You need a phone and a laptop, and marketing.

7. Other options? I really am open to anything and I know this forum has a lot of smart people with similar life goals to me. I am willing to go back to school if I have to to get a masters, but I would really prefer not to, rather leveraging my current life experience, degree, and motivation to take action RIGHT NOW. I have already read through almost every thread on the first 10 pages of lifestyle so just soaking it all in currently. What path can I take to maximize my money, travel, and women opportunites both now and in the future? BTW, I currently only have about 3k to my name to work with.

_________________________

Going back to school is an attractive option, but not a real option. It's more vacation. I also wouldn't learn how to drive a Truck. And I'd avoid all "gig" economy shit as those 300 bucks you make on Uber is you trading away your real time to do some real shit.

1. Learn a trade
- weld
- carpentry
- plumbing
- hvac
- auto

A community college program won't be too expensive - plus those are real skills that you can use all over the country/world.

I believe that every man that goes to college should also learn a trade.
Even if you never go into the trades, there will be plenty of times in your life where knowing any of the above will save your ass.

2. Learn to program - A significant portion of developers are self taught. That gravy train will end as more 1st world countries ship the low level work to 2nd and 3rd world countries.

3. Learn how to SELL.

This is an evergreen skill and applies to many industries.

The people at the top of every society are persuaders first and foremost.

4. Learn how to write better

You're fresh out of school.
You could write papers for people in school.

This is what lazy students pay for papers.

https://grademiners.com/prices

As the writer, you'd get half of that.

As the business owner, you'd get half of that mostly for doing great SEO for customers, and putting up craig's list ads for writers.

good luck.

WIA

 

[The Beast1]

Good to see your update on your life WTF.

If it helps, it took me three years out of school for my life to start get interesting. I used the time to clean my life up and set up some good habits that I lost because of college.

Don't worry, you're doing all of the right things.

 

[Anabasis to Desta]

Are you open to joining the military as a commissioned officer?

If it's something you're interested in, i can post a mini-data sheet.

 

[samsamsam]

Your stories sound fun for a guy in his early 20s.

Without building up some personal wealth I don't think they will sound as fun in your early 30s. And much less in your early 40s.

Just food for thought.

There was an expression I have heard which made sense to me.

Work first, play later
Play first, work later

Whatever you do last, you do longest.

Not saying you shouldn't enjoy yourself when young but unless anyone is expecting to die young, it is a long time that you will be alive.

 

[PragueDude]

Hey man,

Awesome post. I myself am teaching English at 25 in a Central Euro country. I chase women (when i'm not too much of a pussy) , and I can relae with you. I've got basically complete freedom with everything I do. Flexible schedule, gym, teach whatever I want but it comes with its downfalls for sure. Shit money, loneliness, etc. I don't know what you're after and I don't know what I'm after but hey, we're alive aren't we?

 

[American Jesus]

I'd appreciate a data sheet on that, seems like an interesting option that I don't know too much about.

 

[quino_16]

Are you open to joining the military as a commissioned officer?

If it's something you're interested in, i can post a mini-data sheet.

I have been thinking about joining the military.

So yeah, that would be cool.

 

[WestIndianArchie]

There was an expression I have heard which made sense to me.

Work first, play later
Play first, work later

Whatever you do last, you do longest.

Not saying you shouldn't enjoy yourself when young but unless anyone is expecting to die young, it is a long time that you will be alive.

I worked first, and it didn't pay off.

I've had this discussion with a lot of my peers. All the grades, accolades, and degrees. Worked the big jobs, did what we set out to do leaving college. I'm usually one of the smartest and most educated persons in a room, but all them Science Fair Medals and Fortune 500 internships didn't set me up for life.

The "pay off" never came.

The pay off never came for millions. Though millions still believe that it will, if they just keep working at it.

Instead of all of those hours of test taking and fretting, early morning hours punching out TPS reports, I could have been traveling the world, following my dreams.

In all likelihood, I'd be in the same place economically more or less.

I think OP is right to consider adventure, more so than trying to join the straight life and fail at it like millions of others.

In all likelihood, he'll parlay an education that means nothing into a field that doesn't appreciate his education, a field where he could apply his skills to do an out-of-the box solutions - but can't because management won't let him.

He'll make his rent and car note until he meets a girl, knocks her up, and hopes they can put together enough pennies to buy a house. And then it's really over.

I no longer see a point in joining the rat race. You're surrounded by other rats, and there's no cheese at the end.

There are ways to pursue his adventure and build a solid skill set. We should be helping him to figure that out, rather than send him to the salt mines.

WIA

 

[Independent1]

I'm also in a similar position to OP.

25 working in China, able to save perhaps 1k USD per month in a sales position.

I'm curious about coding, how skilled do you need to be in order to potentially make online monthly income? Could someone here breakdown examples of skill levels & capability, a long with what specific earnings they could make?

I know it depends on the person in terms of how quick they are able to learn & how much time/effort they put into it. But some rough guidance would be great to understand.

 

[skptc]

Build ASSETS when you are young.

To build things you need to have an abundance of energy. The younger you are the more energy you have.

No one takes you serious when you are in your 20s anyway so this is the best time to be grinding it out.

...you only need 5-10 years to set yourself up for life.

 

[samsamsam]

OP, do what your gut tells you. Just be ok with the choice 20 years down the line.

Don't ever say, "I wish XYZ happened, or I did something different."

Be able to say, "I lived life on my terms, it wasn't always perfect but I made choices for myself."

No matter which way you go, there will be no perfect.

Another way to ask this is, what will you regret more (you think), not working more or not having fun more?

Nothing says you can't make money while on an adventure - just need to think of a way that works with that lifestyle.

 

[Ruivinho]

Very interesting thead and responses too. I'm currently 20 years old and fear still living with my parents and having little direction in 5 years time.

The most frustrating thing is looking back 3/4 years, and I was still questioning my future back then, asking myself whether i should go to college, whether i should learn a trade, what path to take...
Ultimately my motivation to take action never came and realistically I've spent those last few years procrastinating and as a result, still living with my parents.
Experienced a little travel and had an amazing time in meeting girls, enjoying different cultures and lifestyles. as I've used this past year to retake my high school exams (learning from home, submitting papers to an online tutor) to get better grades and to now apply for college.

To see how fast the last 4 years have gone by with me taking no action, it scares me for the next 4 years. Especially going to college and coming out with the paper to see i graduated but little to no bank and probably just as little direction.

 

[IM3000]

Very interesting thead and responses too. I'm currently 20 years old and fear still living with my parents and having little direction in 5 years time.

The most frustrating thing is looking back 3/4 years, and I was still questioning my future back then, asking myself whether i should go to college, whether i should learn a trade, what path to take...
Ultimately my motivation to take action never came and realistically I've spent those last few years procrastinating and as a result, still living with my parents.
Experienced a little travel and had an amazing time in meeting girls, enjoying different cultures and lifestyles. as I've used this past year to retake my high school exams (learning from home, submitting papers to an online tutor) to get better grades and to now apply for college.

To see how fast the last 4 years have gone by with me taking no action, it scares me for the next 4 years. Especially going to college and coming out with the paper to see i graduated but little to no bank and probably just as little direction.

To quote T. Roosevelt:

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing."

 

[Georges89]

Hi guys, very interesting thread and just wanted to chip in with my situation.

I'm 27 now, and do have some savings although this is for payment on a property. Still living at home right now.

I'm jobless right now, have been working in recruitment for last 5 years and lost my job in spring. I've been trying to figure out what I want to do as Ive been miserable in recruitment but same time, its not been easy. The time does go by quickly, 1 month becomes 2, 2 months become 3. And although I have savings, I don't want to touch them yet. I fucked up as I didn't save money to keep me going for a few more months, and now I am running out of money to get by on, I am a bit trapped and going to probably go back into recruitment as I've got the experience there.

What I've learnt:

- Saving is almost everything. Save as much as you can realistically and keep it going. Save 1000 a month if you can (in my case in Stirling not Dollars) and build 10-20-30k in savings. You are saving if you lose your job, you are saving for peace of mind. You are saving to open your own business, you are saving to travel the world. You are saving for your long term future and retirement and any unexpected problem that arises.

- It sounds lame, but pension? Long term investments? These are things worth thinking about too.

- It should be relatively easy to have a good saving plan. Read Ramit Sethi's book on finance as it gives a good step by step guide on how to siphon of funds for saving, and have a plan.

- If you are careful with your money, you can still manage to go out and have some luxury whilst saving. Go for drinks once or twice a week. Take cash with you and leave your card at home so you are forced to only spend the money you want to spend.

- make sure you are always investing in yourself. When you are earning full time, make sure alongside saving that you learn other skills. That could be to learn code, that could be to write a book. Hell, it could be to act or to sing. It could be a number of things. but all those extra skills you learn whilst working your main job are going to really help develop you. Don't sit on your ass like me and just work your main job, and live for the weekend, as it means fast forward to when you aren't enjoying your job or your lose your job that you haven't developed any skills outside of your main job that could help you.

I am not on top of my shit yet, but the last few months have taught me a lot about the last few years and the importance of having money at your disposal. Your situation can change dramatically and we get comfortable too easily. Make sure you plan for losing your job, and whilst your job is going well, learn things on the side and don't ever get too comfortable because you never know when your boss could fire you, it could be due to planned redundancies, a bankrupt company or anything.

Make sure you are learning new skills, investing in yourself and saving, so you are always growing. I made the mistake of just waiting for monthly salary, spending the bulk of it on crap - expensive lunches, alcohol and drugs on the weekend, too much takeaway, clothes I didn't need.

I hope you can learn from my mistakes.

I'm 27 and I know I fucked up but I'm not going to cry about it. Time to rebuild and set myself over then next 2-3 years. We grow out of bad situations and I think its taken me losing my job to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[zatara]

I worked first, and it didn't pay off.

I think thats the core of it. Working your ass off in your 20s expecting to party later is not a sure bet. Your career mightn't advance as expected, you might knock up some girl, you might get hit by a bus, you might age horribly due to stress, whatever. Life happens and things rarely turn out exactly as you plan.

Even if everything works out perfectly, and you're one of a very, very small minority that has all that work pay off and you retire at 40. Now what? I'd far rather party in my 20s than in my 40s. Far easier to socialise with other travelers, to hit on the widest age spectrum of girls etc. A 25 year old just has so many more social/romantic doors open to them than a 45 year old. And will find it physically much easier to stay in shape, and to handle the traveling/partying itself.

I think the best approach for most people is to maximise partying in your 20s while not totally fucking your career over. Go to college, go to grad school, then work as little as possible for 5ish years. Work a year then travel a year, or work 'fun' jobs as a barman, or teach English etc. Start your own business, try out location independence. Whatever makes you happy. Once you've got a good degree or two in the bank you'll always have that to fall back on once you start approaching 30.

The difference between hitting the 9-5 rat race at 29 years old vs 24 years old on your career will likely be minimal - you'll just be a few years behind your peers. This gap will seem large when you have 1 year of experience and they have 6, but it will narrow massively once everyone has 10+ years of experience. They may retire at 65 instead of at 70 for you, but are your late 60s likely to matter that much? Those 5 years you spent traveling the world, fucking foreign girls, partying your ass off etc in your 20s are far more unique. And that window of opportunity closes so damn fast on your life.

 

[worldwidetraveler]

The pay off never came for millions. Though millions still believe that it will, if they just keep working at it.

Most people don't have skills that translate to millions. From recollection, you're in the same line of work as user Hank Moody.

According to Hank, he is rich. What is he doing that you are not?

Skills such as lawyering are not what make you rich. Unfortunately, most people don't understand that and get bitter when the riches don't fall from the sky once they get their law degree.

As for fucking around in your twenties, this has been debated so much on here that people who feel cheated will say do it.

I say don't fuck around but have fun while getting the necessary skills that will translate to the life you want. Starting early is always the best and will give you the best chances of success.

It takes a long time to get good at something unless you are gifted in that subject matter. The problem is there are many more things to learn in order to be successful.

Being great at programming will only make you a programmer. Start adding in marketing, salesmanship, business acumen and now you are looking more like a business owner.

Good luck trying to get there when you're in your 30's to 40's. You will be passed on by jobs that would have been a starting point to gaining experience that can be used later in life. It's unfortunate that people will tell young guys to fuck around. They won't realize until it's too late whether it was a smart choice or not. I remember one guy here talking about moving to Thailand at 19 and was basically broke now with a family and no options.

 

[Ice]

Some thoughts from my POV:

I would definitely forget about things like working on a cruise ship and being a flight attendant. Those things won't get you anywhere. You can work these jobs for a couple of years, but these are not long term careers. You need develop skills / a career that has a longer term future.

Also, I would not recommend going the "digital nomad" route - if that includes doing small gigs on "sharing economy" platforms like upward etc. You can do that for 6 months when you are starting out to gain some experience, but you need to leave these platforms behind asap. The pay is way too low, and you want to build a brand/ reputation for yourself outside of these platforms.

I worked first, and it didn't pay off.

The idea that you can bust your ass for 10 years as an employee and then be set for live is not very realistic. There are some people for whom it works - mainly people in the banking / finance industry. You need to get into a very high-level, well-paying field for that plan to work out. From the way you sound in your posts, though, you are probably not a person who will make it into these spheres.

Ok so what do I suggest?

You said that you started learning fron-end coding and Javascript. Thats is very good basis. ESPECIALLY in CONJUNCTION with your anthropology degree. If I was in your situation, I would definitely leverage this. There is an emerging field of digital anthropology - see for example this article here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/technology/intels-sharp-eyed-social-scientist.html?_r=0

There will be an increasing demand for the position in the future, together with UX Design and Consumer Ethnography - these fields are all interconnected. Anthropology is a very good foundation for that.

So instead of becoming a code monkey who works for pennies on some "sharing economy" website, rather become an "Interaction Expert" based on your knowledge of screen design and anthropology. Just get some more experience in that field, make a portfolio, and brand yourself that way. Another advantage is that you're young-ish, so you can become a "Gen-Y Digital Guru" or something in that vein. I.e. you help corporations understand the UX needs of Gen Y - there's a lot of money in that.

You can then still build your own digital service on the side, maybe with a focus on China, as YMG suggested - I think that's a good idea.

The main thing though is to develop a skill set that you can build upon and that is in demand. I wouldn't only think about "how can I make money" but what will be the best path longer term. I think you can't go wrong with going into the digital field, but you need to make sure that you don't get stuck on the code monkey level and instead work in a more "strategic" position. Again, your background is very well suited for that.

I'd far rather party in my 20s than in my 40s. Far easier to socialise with other travelers, to hit on the widest age spectrum of girls etc. A 25 year old just has so many more social/romantic doors open to them than a 45 year old.

Those 5 years you spent traveling the world, fucking foreign girls, partying your ass off etc in your 20s are far more unique. And that window of opportunity closes so damn fast on your life.

That's quite a lot of bullshit. You cannot weigh your 20ies against your 40ies - each age is what you make of it. It's all about building a long-term life that you enjoy and that gives you freedom. Do you think you won't want to socialise and fuck foreign girls when you're in your 40ies? Of course you will. Many people simply can't, though, because they're in a 9-5 grind and don't know how to get out of it.

That's why my advice is to build expertise in a field and always keep adding new skills and knowledge to it. This will make it easier to go independent over time and build high-level clients. Then the next step is to start a company and/or develop a product. But that comes later, after you have built a good foundation in a field and gained some good experience.