Alexander Dugin

JohnQThomas

Woodpecker
Other Christian
Here (this screenshot was from around 5-6 months ago)View attachment 40886

Also the liberal arts and humanities in US universities have been pretty much reduced into politically correct indoctrination. Besides, stuff like philosophy, history and literature can be learned outside the university classroom context at one's own pace anyway.
But those who learn the non-STEM subjects only outside the classroom won’t be hired to teach them. And then the next generation won’t even have the option of learning them from teachers along with the books (which is how some people learn best)—in K-12 or in college—because there will be no more non-STEM teachers.
And what of theology? The clergy in most faiths are supposed to have years of formal education (including at least some acquaintance with philosophy and other humanities) beyond high school. Should nobody be able to study for or enter the clergy because the job doesn’t pay enough to cover student loans?
And as for the allegation that the teaching of these subjects has been reduced to nothing but political propagandizing—insofar as that’s true, shouldn’t people who would like to teach the subjects properly study them formally and get the credentials required for teaching? If enough intelligent people did that, the arts and humanities—in historically-accurate form—might be preserved, and saved from the liberal propagandists.
 
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Yeagerist

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
But those who learn the non-STEM subjects only outside the classroom won’t be hired to teach them. And then the next generation won’t even have the option of learning them from teachers along with the books (which is how some people learn best)—in K-12 or in college—bec
The Internet already exists as a platform of teaching college-level information for free (or at low cost, not much more than Patreon donations). I've learned economics, geopolitics, history, philosophy, theology, to name a few, all from the Internet and social media despite taking up civil engineering in college, and that was mostly out of my own thirst for knowledge and truth-seeking. Certainly not PhD level, and granted that I'm not actually from the U.S., but the non-STEM departments in my university were also staffed by woke activists.

And what of theology? The clergy in most faiths are supposed to have years of formal education (including at least some acquaintance with philosophy and other humanities) beyond high school. Should nobody be able to study for or enter the clergy because the job doesn’t pay enough to cover student loans?
I can make an exception for the clergy in the West (seminaries and Bible schools), but I doubt that young men would want to become a priest or pastor for financial reasons.

And as for the allegation that the teaching of these subjects has been reduced to nothing but political propagandizing—insofar as that’s true, shouldn’t people who would like to teach the subjects properly study them formally and get the credentials required for teaching? If enough intelligent people did that, the arts and humanities—in historically-accurate form—might be preserved, and saved from the liberal propagandists.
The existing political structure and collectivism in university faculties would be a hindrance to that. A truly free thinking professor or academic wouldn't advance career-wise nowadays unless they pay lip-service to the woke globalist Zeitgeist, although I'm probably generalizing here
 

Yeagerist

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
You know, since we're talking about Keith Woods here, I found another video of his (from the algorithm) talking about "Propertarianism," the vid has a clip showing the so-called leader of this movement literally pissing his shorts confronting two black dudes in BLM shirts.

 

Yeagerist

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
The guy is unable to distinguish between Orthodox Palamism and pagan occultism and operates on the presupposition that Christianity is inherently destructive to European culture and ethnicity (basically what wignat LARPers think) and that it somehow "needs" paganism to preserve Russian tradition. How are his ideas compatible with Orthodox Christian monarchists?

Screenshot_20220507_214355.jpg
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
The guy is unable to distinguish between Orthodox Palamism and pagan occultism and operates on the presupposition that Christianity is inherently destructive to European culture and ethnicity (basically what wignat LARPers think) and that it somehow "needs" paganism to preserve Russian tradition. How are his ideas compatible with Orthodox Christian monarchists?

View attachment 41566

Hmm ... good question, let me try to take a stab at this one.

Specifically I will be examining this quote:

Right so when it comes to Dugin Christianity:
"According to Marlene Leuruelle, Dugin's adherence to the Old Believers allows him to stand between Paganism and Orthodox Christianity without formally adopting either of them.
His choice is not paradoxical, since, according to him - in the wake of Rene Guenon - Russian Orthodoxy and especially the Old Believers have preserved an esoteric and initiatory character which was utterly lost in Western Christianity.
As such, the Russian Orthodox tradition may be merged with Neopaganism and may host "Neopaganism's nationalist force, which anchors it in the Russian soil, and separates it from the two other Cristiano confessions"

I think that we are having some misunderstandings here, due to lack of knowledge and/or perspective in regards to this question. Historically Orthodox Christianity in Russia has always been heavily syncretic with local pagan traditions.

Paganism in the west, as you said are "wignat LARPers", haters of Christianity, who have been affiliated with Esoteric Nazism, such as the Vril secret societies practicing a quasi satanist ideology. This can be said about the kind of paganism that is practiced by the Ukrainian paramilitary Azov Batalion, and other similar Neo Nazi groups. I do not exclude the possibility of infiltration of this western paganism ideology into Russia during modern times, however I have no knowledge about that.

On the contrary, traditional Russian paganism has been more similar to Native American folk religions, or to for example Japanese shintoism, than anything. There are many common elements between these traditional folk religions, which is not surprising, as the Russians, Japanese, and Native Americans have a common ancient cultural heritage. Rather than being anti-Christian as the core of their existence, these religions emphasize veneration of ancestors, living in harmony with nature, existence of spirits, and deification of celestial objects. It is with this Russian village paganism that Orthodox Christianity merged.

Indeed, Christianity didn't just come out of nowhere. A Jesus Christ comes only precisely at the time when there is fertile ideological ground for the seed of truth to grow. Orthodox Christianity especially stands on the shoulders of other religions that came before it. It's not an artificial invention, as is Protestantism for example. Many of the Orthodox traditions, such as candles, icons, bells, myrrh, keeping relics of saints in the temple, religious processions, monasterial life, painting eggs for Easter, were all inherited from even more ancient religions, which have since been lost to history. One can find many common elements in the religious tradition between Orthodoxy and Zoroastrianism and Buddhism. It has been said that the Magi were Zoroastrians, and that Jesus Christ went to study with them before he started his mission in the lands of Palestine. The early Christian church took many elements from other religions. Byzantine philosophy is descendant from Hellenistic philosophy.

And this is something to be proud of, rather than being ashamed about. I do not agree with the Jehova's Witnesses, who do not celebrate Christmas or Easter, their logic being that these holidays were originally celebrated by pagans, and not by Jews. I do not see any problem with celebrating formerly pagan holidays or practicing traditions which are heavily rooted in paganism. This is what I think Dugin meant, when he said that the Orthodox Church retains ancient traditions of whatever, that are completely absent in western Christianity, which went down the path of an atheist and rationalist interpretation of the Bible, taking things literally instead of reading between the lines, making up weird creationist cults. That's why they are so bland.

We are not Wahhabists, who out of ideological concerns, demolished all the ancient pre-Islamic architecture of the city of Mecca, which basically consists of the whole entire old part of the city, reducing it to just another boring Dubai esque metropolis.

Even the modern Russian Orthodox Church is very syncretic, for example the cathedral of the Russian Armed Forces, has a lot of patriotic and military symbolica, which while not being strictly Christian, is a part of the Russian traditional religious culture. In this temple we can see the fusion of Eastern Christianity, and the cult of the warrior, which demonstrates itself in modern times as Victory Day parades. And even in ancient times, Orthodox monks did martial arts, just like Shaolin monks, and they fought at the battle of Kulikovo. The traditional Russian knight, "bogatyr", means "warrior of God".

There is a very significant difference between modern western "LARPers" cults, who even seriously think that they can summon paranormal entities, and Neopaganism in Russia and other non-western countries, which is just a preservation of the ancient cultural heritage, for example the works of Mikhail Zadornov and Svetlana Zharnikova.

About the Old Believers, they are the adherents of the Old Russian Orthodox Church, which was viciously persecuted by the "Antichrist Tsar", who was supported by western secret societies, and you know who those guys are. This "Antichrist Tsar" passed a law declaring the Russian Orthodox Church as unpersons, in the year 1666 for crying out out, and initiated a campaign of ruthless Bolshevik esque pogroms against the Church. Those who remained faithful are now called as Old Believers. I genuinely respect these people, as they are some of the last truly conservative Russian people, who have preserved the Russian traditional culture. I have posted many documantaries about the Old Believers into the Russian Culture thread, several of which are in the English language. It can be said that the Old Orthodox Church of course retains more of the ancient pagan traditions than the "puritanical" new Orthodox Church, which was installed after 1666.

Eurasianism is certainly not a new concept, as it has been spoken about by Lev Gumilyov and Roman von Ungern Sternberg, who in turn based their ideas on those of other Russian thinkers even earlier in history. The main premise of this idea is that Russia has historically had much more cultural connections with the other peoples of Eurasia, such as Uighurs, Iranians, Central Asians, than with the peoples of Western Europe for example. This is in fact historically correct, and indeed I find that the mentality of traditional Russian people, in particular with familiar piety and religious conservativism, to be much closer to for example Vietnamese than to Westerners, especially considering all of this wokeism stuff. The truth is that Russia is an ancient civilization, just like China, of which the Russian Empire of the Romanovs is only it's latest iteration. This ancient Russia of legend no doubt contacted with other Eurasian peoples, leaving as an imprint of it's influence the myriad of cultural similarities among the peoples, which I have discussed in the Russian Culture thread.

Whether or not Dugin was affiliated with Allister Crowley and his cult, I don't know anything about that one. It has been said that when one joins a secret society or cult, one never does fully leave that cult. Regardless, I would give Dugin the benefit of the doubt for now.

So you see, when studying the traditional Russian culture, or Chinese for that matter, it is insufficient to simply approach the matter with a western perspective on things, which would most likely lead to misunderstandings.


Links

Cultural continuity of the Eurasian peoples:


Documentaries about Russian Old Believers:

 
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Jive Turkey

Kingfisher
Orthodox Catechumen
Hmm ... good question, let me try to take a stab at this one.

Specifically I will be examining this quote:



I think that we are having some misunderstandings here, due to lack of knowledge and/or perspective in regards to this question. Historically Orthodox Christianity in Russia has always been heavily syncretic with local pagan traditions.

Paganism in the west, as you said are "wignat LARPers", haters of Christianity, who have been affiliated with Esoteric Nazism, such as the Vril secret societies practicing a quasi satanist ideology. This can be said about the kind of paganism that is practiced by the Ukrainian paramilitary Azov Batalion, and other similar Neo Nazi groups. I do not exclude the possibility of infiltration of this western paganism ideology into Russia during modern times, however I have no knowledge about that.

On the contrary, traditional Russian paganism has been more similar to Native American folk religions, or to for example Japanese shintoism, than anything. There are many common elements between these traditional folk religions, which is not surprising, as the Russians, Japanese, and Native Americans have a common ancient cultural heritage. Rather than being anti-Christian as the core of their existence, these religions emphasize veneration of ancestors, living in harmony with nature, existence of spirits, and deification of celestial objects. It is with this Russian village paganism that Orthodox Christianity merged.

Indeed, Christianity didn't just come out of nowhere. A Jesus Christ comes only precisely at the time when there is fertile ideological ground for the seed of truth to grow. Orthodox Christianity especially stands on the shoulders of other religions that came before it. It's not an artificial invention, as is Protestantism for example. Many of the Orthodox traditions, such as candles, icons, bells, myrrh, keeping relics of saints in the temple, religious processions, monasterial life, painting eggs for Easter, were all inherited from even more ancient religions, which have since been lost to history. One can find many common elements in the religious tradition between Orthodoxy and Zoroastrianism and Buddhism. It has been said that the Magi were Zoroastrians, and that Jesus Christ went to study with them before he started his mission in the lands of Palestine. The early Christian church took many elements from other religions. Byzantine philosophy is descendant from Hellenistic philosophy.

And this is something to be proud of, rather than being ashamed about. I do not agree with the Jehova's Witnesses, who do not celebrate Christmas or Easter, their logic being that these holidays were originally celebrated by pagans, and not by Jews. I do not see any problem with celebrating formerly pagan holidays or practicing traditions which are heavily rooted in paganism. This is what I think Dugin meant, when he said that the Orthodox Church retains ancient traditions of whatever, that are completely absent in western Christianity, which went down the path of an atheist and rationalist interpretation of the Bible, taking things literally instead of reading between the lines, making up weird creationist cults. That's why they are so bland.

We are not Wahhabists, who out of ideological concerns, demolished all the ancient pre-Islamic architecture of the city of Mecca, which basically consists of the whole entire old part of the city, reducing it to just another boring Dubai esque metropolis.

Even the modern Russian Orthodox Church is very syncretic, for example the cathedral of the Russian Armed Forces, has a lot of patriotic and military symbolica, which while not being strictly Christian, is a part of the Russian traditional religious culture. In this temple we can see the fusion of Eastern Christianity, and the cult of the warrior, which demonstrates itself in modern times as Victory Day parades. And even in ancient times, Orthodox monks did martial arts, just like Shaolin monks, and they fought at the battle of Kulikovo. The traditional Russian knight, "bogatyr", means "warrior of God".

There is a very significant difference between modern western "LARPers" cults, who even seriously think that they can summon paranormal entities, and Neopaganism in Russia and other non-western countries, which is just a preservation of the ancient cultural heritage, for example the works of Mikhail Zadornov and Svetlana Zharnikova.

About the Old Believers, they are the adherents of the Old Russian Orthodox Church, which was viciously persecuted by the "Antichrist Tsar", who was supported by western secret societies, and you know who those guys are. This "Antichrist Tsar" passed a law declaring the Russian Orthodox Church as unpersons, in the year 1666 for crying out out, and initiated a campaign of ruthless Bolshevik esque pogroms against the Church. Those who remained faithful are now called as Old Believers. I genuinely respect these people, as they are some of the last truly conservative Russian people, who have preserved the Russian traditional culture. I have posted many documantaries about the Old Believers into the Russian Culture thread, several of which are in the English language. It can be said that the Old Orthodox Church of course retains more of the ancient pagan traditions than the "puritanical" new Orthodox Church, which was installed after 1666.

Eurasianism is certainly not a new concept, as it has been spoken about by Lev Gumilyov and Roman von Ungern Sternberg, who in turn based their ideas on those of other Russian thinkers even earlier in history. The main premise of this idea is that Russia has historically had much more cultural connections with the other peoples of Eurasia, such as Uighurs, Iranians, Central Asians, than with the peoples of Western Europe for example. This is in fact historically correct, and indeed I find that the mentality of traditional Russian people, in particular with familiar piety and religious conservativism, to be much closer to for example Vietnamese than to Westerners, especially considering all of this wokeism stuff. The truth is that Russia is an ancient civilization, just like China, of which the Russian Empire of the Romanovs is only it's latest iteration. This ancient Russia of legend no doubt contacted with other Eurasian peoples, leaving as an imprint of it's influence the myriad of cultural similarities among the peoples, which I have discussed in the Russian Culture thread.

Whether or not Dugin was affiliated with Allister Crowley and his cult, I don't know anything about that one. It has been said that when one joins a secret society or cult, one never does fully leave that cult. Regardless, I would give Dugin the benefit of the doubt for now.

So you see, when studying the traditional Russian culture, or Chinese for that matter, it is insufficient to simply approach the matter with a western perspective on things, which would most likely lead to misunderstandings.


Links

Cultural continuity of the Eurasian peoples:


Documentaries about Russian Old Believers:

This post made my head spin
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
@Yeagerist By the way, I actually forgot to mention one point in my pseudo essay up above.

This is the prophecy of the Byzantine elder.



Do not look for help from Western Christians, expecting that they will take up arms in defense of the common Christian heritage. Do not expect this. Because the Western Christians are not Christians; they are pagans. Even we Orthodox have a lot of things that are pagan.

Yes, brother, we have much that is pagan, because we Orthodox are sinners, both as individuals and as a people. However, we are pagans on the surface, while in the depths of our souls we are Christian, because in our humility we have Christ in our hearts. And therefore, in spite of our sins, “in our humility the Lord remembered us.” Western peoples are Christian ion the surface, but in their hearts, in their souls, they are pagan. We Orthodox grieve that we have idols living in our souls, and in humility we fall prostrate before Christ, desiring with our whole heart to belong to Him. In the case of Westerners, however, Christianity is like a thin gilding over copper; and the rest is wholly pagan, because within their souls they bow down before their idols and these idols reign over them. They are proud, and Christ does not dwell in their hearts. For this reason, we Orthodox are truly pagans—on the surface—but deep within we are Christians; while the Western Latins are Christians on the surface but pagans underneith. Therefore, do not expect that they will help us. We Orthodox are strangers to them.

The elder says that the essence of the Orthodox religion is that it is pagan on the surface, but Christian inside, whereas Western Christianity is Christian on the surface, but pagan inside.

I don't intend to turn this discussion into denomination bashing, but I think that he has some interesting points here.

Orthodox Christianity is pagan on the surface because of it's syncretic nature, many traditions of the Church were taken from ancient Slavic pagans, the most obvious being traditional holidays, such as Christmas and Easter, but there are other ones too. For example the traditional Russian onion dome architecture predates Christianity, and probably was in service by pre-Christian religions as well. For example, both Iran and India also have similar architecture styles.

However the question is, does all this serve to bring you closer to God, or further away from him? The fact that Orthodoxy integrated the traditional rituals and folklore of the Eastern European peoples, only served to bring them closer to God, which is the important point. Tradition is a strong force, and colorful onion domes can gather people into church if only because they like the art and architecture. Them being in church is better than in the pub. I don't see anything wrong if people want to wear traditional clothing and perform folk dances, etc. This is the "nationalist force" which keeps the people together. Without this factor church would be boring for people, as in the west, lost all it's energy, and doesn't attract the youth, and losing attendees every year.

Now compare Orthodoxy to Jehova's Witnesses for example, who reject all pagan influence, refusing to celebrate Christmas and Easter even, but when they knock on your door, you open the door and you see a bunch of beurocrats from the court or something. Their blandness in clothing style is only matched by their facial expressions. Such people are much too integrated into the worldly lifestyle now a days. In their strive to appear Christians on the surface, getting rid of any traditional, or "pagan" features, they completely lost touch with the essence of true Christianity. When you get rid of all the aesthetics, ask how do they live their lives, do they practice what they preach? Do people who become obsessed with doctrine too much tend to be hypocrites?

Why is it that so many people who have been raised in American Christian households go on to becoming atheists, consumerists, wokeists, or even low key occultists later in life? An even greater question would be, why do American Christians put Halloween decorations in their front yards, depictions of ghouls, ghosts, and other paranormal entities, when that day of Halloween is thought to be the day when the barrier between this world and the other world is most permeable and spirits can cross over? You might say that this is a kind of tradition, but I would say no, tradition is how Mexicans celebrate the Day of the Dead, as a day of veneration of their ancestors, whose near and dear spirits they are welcoming back to Earth. But someone turned this day into a celebration of the non-human demonic entities instead, and Christians have been desensitized to this already long time ago. In Russia or some other Slavic country, because people are superstitious or "pagans", they know better than to put inflatable graven images of demons onto their yard. It's literally inviting the entity into the house, to induce mental illness in the owner. Ancient pre-Christian mythologies warned us, that the vampire, werewolf, or some other entity, cannot enter into the house unless granted permission by the owner. Did we listen?

I'm not even talking about the Vatican's nativity set, simply for the fact that there are multiple Catholics in this forum who might take it wrongly.


I do not know when did this Byzantine elder wrote this prophecy, perhaps during the times of the Byzantine empire, the late Middle Ages? Well then he was a very wise man, for he saw the root cause of the problem even way back then. He saw the wrong philosophical foundation of the Western Christianity, which would lead to it's eventual deterioration. We are now living through the final symptoms of this thing now. It's like the chaos effect, small initial differences in attitudes, can lead to tremendous consequences in the long run.

Anyway, please excuse my rant for this day, a big huge wall of text.
 

Yeagerist

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
@Yeagerist By the way, I actually forgot to mention one point in my pseudo essay up above.

This is the prophecy of the Byzantine elder.





The elder says that the essence of the Orthodox religion is that it is pagan on the surface, but Christian inside, whereas Western Christianity is Christian on the surface, but pagan inside.

I don't intend to turn this discussion into denomination bashing, but I think that he has some interesting points here.

Orthodox Christianity is pagan on the surface because of it's syncretic nature, many traditions of the Church were taken from ancient Slavic pagans, the most obvious being traditional holidays, such as Christmas and Easter, but there are other ones too. For example the traditional Russian onion dome architecture predates Christianity, and probably was in service by pre-Christian religions as well. For example, both Iran and India also have similar architecture styles.

However the question is, does all this serve to bring you closer to God, or further away from him? The fact that Orthodoxy integrated the traditional rituals and folklore of the Eastern European peoples, only served to bring them closer to God, which is the important point. Tradition is a strong force, and colorful onion domes can gather people into church if only because they like the art and architecture. Them being in church is better than in the pub. I don't see anything wrong if people want to wear traditional clothing and perform folk dances, etc. This is the "nationalist force" which keeps the people together. Without this factor church would be boring for people, as in the west, lost all it's energy, and doesn't attract the youth, and losing attendees every year.

Now compare Orthodoxy to Jehova's Witnesses for example, who reject all pagan influence, refusing to celebrate Christmas and Easter even, but when they knock on your door, you open the door and you see a bunch of beurocrats from the court or something. Their blandness in clothing style is only matched by their facial expressions. Such people are much too integrated into the worldly lifestyle now a days. In their strive to appear Christians on the surface, getting rid of any traditional, or "pagan" features, they completely lost touch with the essence of true Christianity. When you get rid of all the aesthetics, ask how do they live their lives, do they practice what they preach? Do people who become obsessed with doctrine too much tend to be hypocrites?

Why is it that so many people who have been raised in American Christian households go on to becoming atheists, consumerists, wokeists, or even low key occultists later in life? An even greater question would be, why do American Christians put Halloween decorations in their front yards, depictions of ghouls, ghosts, and other paranormal entities, when that day of Halloween is thought to be the day when the barrier between this world and the other world is most permeable and spirits can cross over? You might say that this is a kind of tradition, but I would say no, tradition is how Mexicans celebrate the Day of the Dead, as a day of veneration of their ancestors, whose near and dear spirits they are welcoming back to Earth. But someone turned this day into a celebration of the non-human demonic entities instead, and Christians have been desensitized to this already long time ago. In Russia or some other Slavic country, because people are superstitious or "pagans", they know better than to put inflatable graven images of demons onto their yard. It's literally inviting the entity into the house, to induce mental illness in the owner. Ancient pre-Christian mythologies warned us, that the vampire, werewolf, or some other entity, cannot enter into the house unless granted permission by the owner. Did we listen?

I'm not even talking about the Vatican's nativity set, simply for the fact that there are multiple Catholics in this forum who might take it wrongly.


I do not know when did this Byzantine elder wrote this prophecy, perhaps during the times of the Byzantine empire, the late Middle Ages? Well then he was a very wise man, for he saw the root cause of the problem even way back then. He saw the wrong philosophical foundation of the Western Christianity, which would lead to it's eventual deterioration. We are now living through the final symptoms of this thing now. It's like the chaos effect, small initial differences in attitudes, can lead to tremendous consequences in the long run.

Anyway, please excuse my rant for this day, a big huge wall of text.

Sorry but I'm not gonna take you seriously with all these paragraphs you've jam-packed, especially when you're low-key supporting Dugin with all his occultic and pagan madness.
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
iu
 

Stoyan

 
Banned
Orthodox
Sorry but I'm not gonna take you seriously with all these paragraphs you've jam-packed, especially when you're low-key supporting Dugin with all his occultic and pagan madness.

Did you really read my post above, or are you coming to conclusions without looking at what I actually wrote, based on preconceived notions?
 

JohnQThomas

Woodpecker
Other Christian
You know, since we're talking about Keith Woods here, I found another video of his (from the algorithm) talking about "Propertarianism," the vid has a clip showing the so-called leader of this movement literally pissing his shorts confronting two black dudes in BLM shirts.


Yet another secular political/ideological “fix” has been tried and found wanting.
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
I'm part way through an interview of -
He said one rather interesting thing so far, explaining the the globalists campaign to separate people -
  • from class (marxism)
  • from race (cultural marxism)
  • gender (transexualism)
  • from the state of being human (transhumanism)
He said many interesting things, mainly about the war and Ukraine, bit about Putin and why he decided that globalism was a bad idea. Curious whether the topic of his daughter comes up in the remainder of the podcast..
 
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