Alternatives to bitcoin

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
ElChacal said:
I have like $3k worth of Monero that I bought some months ago for only $1k. The price is still very cheap IMO and I'm not a big fan of alt-coins in fact I only believe in Bitcoin and maybe Monero since they are the only cryptos accepted in the darknet markets


From what I have read and heard about Monero, there seems to be some decent innovations going on there, and they do not seem to be engaged in scammy behaviors.. .. so could be decent as a quasi-longer term investment... (even though I continue to believe that for the time being bitcoin is the best of the long term investments in the cryptospace). It is also nice to be in any kind of asset and have a cushion (in your case with Monero about 200% in profits).

Personally, I would not invest long term more than 10% in various alts, but it could be reasonable for other guys to conclude that 30% is reasonable for their circumstances or even have shorter-term peaks of investments into alts that attempt to leverage and time in order to make more profits... but one of the problems with pump and dumps is getting in sufficiently early (before the pumpers start to pump) and being able to exit before the dump.. not easy to liquidate profits, sometimes with some of those coins. Monero recently got added to Bitfinex, so that should help with some of its liquidity.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Interesting to see that ETC is potentially have a life, and an existence that is competing in the long term with ETH.

They are some of the ETC insiders who are attempting to make ETC more like bitcoin with some of the ETH features - such as keeping ETC on proof of work with a limited supply and also attempting to embrace immutability philosophies (which was their initial reason for coming into existence after the DAO attack)

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/article...mped-monetary-policy-could-be-next-1481656302
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
I did want to mention that I did start buying Monero in very small increments in January 2017. So every time the price drops about $.50, I buy a little more Monero. So far my lowest purchase has been around $10, so at this time, it has to go to $9.50-ish to trigger my next purchase order.

I may also be willing to buy in bulk if Monero's price dips considerably, but I have not yet made up my mind yet... I am just dabbling small in it at the moment as a kind of hedge, and I surely am prepared to lose money on it (since it is serving me as a hedge).
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Crip said:
Does anyone knows anything about CoinSpace.

It can be helpful if you focus your question a bit more because I don't even see that coin on Coinmarket cap

http://coinmarketcap.com/all/views/all/


And, a quick google search comes up with various "scam alert" links.


https://www.google.com/search?q=coi.....69i57j0l5.1448j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


Several of the alts are scams, but some of them are more scams than others, and maybe coinspace is one of those "more than others" scams?


And, by the way, it is not really going to help your reputation on this forum, if you do not have much of a history and you seem to be making other RVF guys do all the work to research what you could have easily looked into, no?
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Armogan said:
So JJG, is ETH a pump and dump scam, I want to hear your thoughts?

Hahahaha..

I am not really that interested in ETH, but I think that there is quite a bit of evidence that it is a pump and dump scam in terms of the degree of its centralization, which allows it to be much more easy to manipulate, take the DOA fork and the many other forks as an example and take the fact that there are centralized committees and take the fact that the supply is uncertain and sometimes can be changed and take the fact that there seems to be discretion by the ETH committees concerning when and if to change the coin from POW to POS.

There are probably some other indicators as well, but overall ETH seems to be a pump and dump to me.

Do you or anyone else have other thoughts to attempt to justify that it is not a pump and dump?
 

Armogan

 
Banned
JayJuanGee said:
Armogan said:
So JJG, is ETH a pump and dump scam, I want to hear your thoughts?

Hahahaha..

I am not really that interested in ETH, but I think that there is quite a bit of evidence that it is a pump and dump scam in terms of the degree of its centralization, which allows it to be much more easy to manipulate, take the DOA fork and the many other forks as an example and take the fact that there are centralized committees and take the fact that the supply is uncertain and sometimes can be changed and take the fact that there seems to be discretion by the ETH committees concerning when and if to change the coin from POW to POS.

There are probably some other indicators as well, but overall ETH seems to be a pump and dump to me.

Do you or anyone else have other thoughts to attempt to justify that it is not a pump and dump?


Degree of centralization, do you mean having an active, supportive, development team that is committed to scaling the project and promoting its long-term survival? I would not consider this centralization at all.

Easy to manipulate, and then pointing to the DOA fork? This is a big misdirection on your part. They did a fork because of a massive hack of DOA funds. Anyone with half a brain would agree given the circumstances this was the right move. Essentially, it was determined to restore funds the way they were before hack, which is why there was a fork.

Further, given the consolidation and agreement of the community to fork it in this manner, and its resilience proves its not a pump-and-dump scam. It would have folded at that moment, that would have been the dump you seem to think it is.

If its a scam why did JP Morgan, Microsoft, and countless other fortune 500 companies create an alliance to promote its growth? Are they in on the scam too?

There is no discretion about shifting to PoS, it has been clearly stated. All parties are in agreement it is beneficial. In fact, moving to PoS from PoW is a good thing. Doesn't bitcoin produce as much electricity as some countries just from wasteful mining practices. The supply isn't uncertain it will be around 108m after shifting to PoS.

You clearly don't know much of what you're talking about.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Armogan said:
JayJuanGee said:
Armogan said:
So JJG, is ETH a pump and dump scam, I want to hear your thoughts?

Hahahaha..

I am not really that interested in ETH, but I think that there is quite a bit of evidence that it is a pump and dump scam in terms of the degree of its centralization, which allows it to be much more easy to manipulate, take the DOA fork and the many other forks as an example and take the fact that there are centralized committees and take the fact that the supply is uncertain and sometimes can be changed and take the fact that there seems to be discretion by the ETH committees concerning when and if to change the coin from POW to POS.

There are probably some other indicators as well, but overall ETH seems to be a pump and dump to me.

Do you or anyone else have other thoughts to attempt to justify that it is not a pump and dump?


Degree of centralization, do you mean having an active, supportive, development team that is committed to scaling the project and promoting its long-term survival? I would not consider this centralization at all.

Easy to manipulate, and then pointing to the DOA fork? This is a big misdirection on your part. They did a fork because of a massive hack of DOA funds. Anyone with half a brain would agree given the circumstances this was the right move. Essentially, it was determined to restore funds the way they were before hack, which is why there was a fork.

Further, given the consolidation and agreement of the community to fork it in this manner, and its resilience proves its not a pump-and-dump scam. It would have folded at that moment, that would have been the dump you seem to think it is.

If its a scam why did JP Morgan, Microsoft, and countless other fortune 500 companies create an alliance to promote its growth? Are they in on the scam too?

There is no discretion about shifting to PoS, it has been clearly stated. All parties are in agreement it is beneficial. In fact, moving to PoS from PoW is a good thing. Doesn't bitcoin produce as much electricity as some countries just from wasteful mining practices. The supply isn't uncertain it will be around 108m after shifting to PoS.

You clearly don't know much of what you're talking about.

hahahahaha

Whether I know what I am talking about or not, who gives a shit?

You can buy or sell ETH all that you want. I don't buy it, and I don't sell it and I don't short it.

But I can still have an opinion about it, which I think that I sufficiently stated for my own purposes, whether it is correct or not, I am not trying to advise anyone what to do in terms of ETH - except to make summary assertions that I believe that it is a pump and dump, especially in comparison to bitcoin and within the context of the bitcoin thread.

You asked me about my opinion, and I don't think that I need to justify my opinion anymore than I already have, and guys can decide for themselves what they want to do, and you certainly can have your own opinion, which you have stated.

If guys believe that that ETH has some value and they may be either to profit from its pump and dump or if they believe that it has value beyond the pump and dump, then surely they can go for it and even discuss particulars of the subject matter in this thread.

Does not really matter too much to me because I am not that interested in the ETH matter except (as I already stated) for its relation to Bitcoin and the way that sometimes, some of its dynamics may, from time to time, relate to bitcoin.. and in that context, I will likely continue to express my opinion similarly to what I already have, in summary and conclusory ways.
 

Deepdiver

Crow
Gold Member
Interesting email today from sovereign society publishers...

Beware the Bitcoin Bail-In
Currency August 15, 2016December 1, 2016 Ted Bauman

Imagine that, just before you read this article, you received an email from a financial institution where you have a substantial trading account…
The email said other accounts had been hacked, but not yours. Nevertheless, the financial institution was deducting 36% of your holdings and replacing them with shares in its parent company — shares that you can’t trade. You just have to hold them and hope for the best.
How would you feel? How do you feel just imagining it?

Probably a lot worse than the clients of Cypriot banks, who had to forfeit between 6.75% and 9.9% of their account holdings as part of the infamous “bail-in” of 2013. Besides the fact that the percentage is much larger, your bail-in was totally unexpected. Nobody saw it coming.
And there’s nobody to whom you can complain. The financial institution is unregulated. There’s no backstop and no clear rules. You’re entirely on your own.
That’s the situation increasing numbers of us are in these days … a situation we were promised wouldn’t happen.

Bitter Bitcoin Irony
The “genesis block” of bitcoin — the very first block of that cryptocurrency’s blockchain — contains the following statement in hexadecimal code: “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks.” That was the London newspaper’s headline on that date.

The reference is unmistakable: Fiat currencies and mainstream banks are unsafe. If something goes wrong, your money may be on the hook. Bitcoin is the answer. As one analyst put it:
Bitcoin presented a choice that has never existed before. Its mysterious creator Satoshi Nakamoto described it as “a distributed system with no single point of failure” where “users hold the crypto-keys to their own money and transact directly with one another, with the help of the P2P network to check for double-spending.” The white paper published under pseudonym was a promise. Bitcoin, which became operational in 2009, was its fulfillment. The promise was to build security through cryptographic proof, replacing third-party trust and creating networks resilient to counter-party risk.
That promise is surely a bitter irony for customers of Hong Kong-based bitcoin exchange Bitfinex, who have lost more than one-third of their money as a result of a hack.

Stealing From Clients: Not Just for Banks Anymore

On August 2, Bitfinex said that hackers had stolen 119,756 bitcoins from some clients’ accounts. It was the second-biggest such hack in dollar terms, after the 2014 hack of bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox.

Bitfinex later said it would spread the losses across all its customers, whether or not they had been hacked — or even held bitcoin. Customers would forfeit 36% of their holdings. As compensation, they’d receive “BFX tokens” that could be redeemed by the exchange someday, or converted to shares in its parent company.

It’s exactly the same sort of “haircut” that Cypriot bank customers received in 2013, with one essential difference: It’s unilateral and not governed by any law. Bitfinex just made it up.

Bitfinex’s terms of service say “bitcoins in your multi-signature wallets belong to and are owned by you.” That’s a clear statement of a banking relationship with its clients, in terms of which “the depository … is obligated to return, on demand, the same monetary objects deposited.” The 36% haircut of its clients, in other words, is “theft” as defined by Bitfinex.

Moreover, compensatory “tokens” redeemable by the exchange or convertible to shares are something between a bond and a security. In the U.S. at least, that requires licenses that Bitfinex doesn’t have.

Free Markets Can Be Costly…
So what are Bitfinex clients to do?
Unregulated cryptocurrency exchanges like Bitfinex exist in the free-market nirvana we’re told is the solution to all of our problems. Bitfinex is free to innovate … as it has clearly done in response to this hack.

In this regulation-free context, Bitfinex clients have the choice of accepting the company’s 36% fait accompli or suing. But if just one client goes to court, the company will almost certainly be placed in receivership, and all accounts will be frozen pending the outcome. Given that clients of cryptocurrency exchange Mt. Gox — which suffered the biggest bitcoin theft of all time in 2014 — are still waiting to be made whole pending ongoing court proceedings, that isn’t much of a choice.
…But They Remain the Only Answer
Many of us love bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They promise the freedom we all desire.

But large-scale trading of cryptocurrencies has recreated the exact problem bitcoin was meant to solve: a “single point of failure.” Instead of “users hold(ing) the crypto-keys to their own money and transact(ing) directly with one another,” the global cryptocurrency market is dominated by massive exchanges that operate exactly like banks, except that they are unregulated and make their own rules.

A while back I wrote an article about the looming danger of blockchain-based currencies. They promise to do away with banks, but would be vulnerable to arbitrary government interference … and confiscation.

What are we to do, then?
As one cryptocurrency analyst has put it: “Problems of centralization cannot be solved through the same modes of thinking that created them. Instead, solutions require innovation from below.”
As I write, and as you read, developers are working furiously to create a mechanism for ordinary people to trade cryptocurrencies without centralized exchanges that function exactly like banks, with all their vulnerabilities. Theirs is an open-source project that can be studied, modified and freely shared, not a private money-making business. Until they succeed, my advice is to keep your bitcoin and other cryptocurrency investments modest.

Unless, of course, you fancy a 36% haircut out of the blue.

Kind regards,
Beware the Bitcoin Bail-In
Ted Bauman
Editor, The Bauman Letter

Editor’s Note: I, along with a few esteemed colleagues, publish our insight in our e-letters called Sovereign Investor Daily and Winning Investor Daily.. Every day, we send you our very best ideas to help protect and grow your wealth.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Deepdiver said:
Interesting email today from sovereign society publishers...

Beware the Bitcoin Bail-In
Currency August 15, 2016December 1, 2016 Ted Bauman

Imagine that, just before you read this article, you received an email from a financial institution where you have a substantial trading account…
The email said other accounts had been hacked, but not yours. Nevertheless, the financial institution was deducting 36% of your holdings and replacing them with shares in its parent company — shares that you can’t trade. You just have to hold them and hope for the best.
How would you feel? How do you feel just imagining it?

Probably a lot worse than the clients of Cypriot banks, who had to forfeit between 6.75% and 9.9% of their account holdings as part of the infamous “bail-in” of 2013. Besides the fact that the percentage is much larger, your bail-in was totally unexpected. Nobody saw it coming.
And there’s nobody to whom you can complain. The financial institution is unregulated. There’s no backstop and no clear rules. You’re entirely on your own.
That’s the situation increasing numbers of us are in these days … a situation we were promised wouldn’t happen.

Bitter Bitcoin Irony
The “genesis block” of bitcoin — the very first block of that cryptocurrency’s blockchain — contains the following statement in hexadecimal code: “The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks.” That was the London newspaper’s headline on that date.

The reference is unmistakable: Fiat currencies and mainstream banks are unsafe. If something goes wrong, your money may be on the hook. Bitcoin is the answer. As one analyst put it:
Bitcoin presented a choice that has never existed before. Its mysterious creator Satoshi Nakamoto described it as “a distributed system with no single point of failure” where “users hold the crypto-keys to their own money and transact directly with one another, with the help of the P2P network to check for double-spending.” The white paper published under pseudonym was a promise. Bitcoin, which became operational in 2009, was its fulfillment. The promise was to build security through cryptographic proof, replacing third-party trust and creating networks resilient to counter-party risk.
That promise is surely a bitter irony for customers of Hong Kong-based bitcoin exchange Bitfinex, who have lost more than one-third of their money as a result of a hack.

Stealing From Clients: Not Just for Banks Anymore

On August 2, Bitfinex said that hackers had stolen 119,756 bitcoins from some clients’ accounts. It was the second-biggest such hack in dollar terms, after the 2014 hack of bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox.

Bitfinex later said it would spread the losses across all its customers, whether or not they had been hacked — or even held bitcoin. Customers would forfeit 36% of their holdings. As compensation, they’d receive “BFX tokens” that could be redeemed by the exchange someday, or converted to shares in its parent company.

It’s exactly the same sort of “haircut” that Cypriot bank customers received in 2013, with one essential difference: It’s unilateral and not governed by any law. Bitfinex just made it up.

Bitfinex’s terms of service say “bitcoins in your multi-signature wallets belong to and are owned by you.” That’s a clear statement of a banking relationship with its clients, in terms of which “the depository … is obligated to return, on demand, the same monetary objects deposited.” The 36% haircut of its clients, in other words, is “theft” as defined by Bitfinex.

Moreover, compensatory “tokens” redeemable by the exchange or convertible to shares are something between a bond and a security. In the U.S. at least, that requires licenses that Bitfinex doesn’t have.

Free Markets Can Be Costly…
So what are Bitfinex clients to do?
Unregulated cryptocurrency exchanges like Bitfinex exist in the free-market nirvana we’re told is the solution to all of our problems. Bitfinex is free to innovate … as it has clearly done in response to this hack.

In this regulation-free context, Bitfinex clients have the choice of accepting the company’s 36% fait accompli or suing. But if just one client goes to court, the company will almost certainly be placed in receivership, and all accounts will be frozen pending the outcome. Given that clients of cryptocurrency exchange Mt. Gox — which suffered the biggest bitcoin theft of all time in 2014 — are still waiting to be made whole pending ongoing court proceedings, that isn’t much of a choice.
…But They Remain the Only Answer
Many of us love bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. They promise the freedom we all desire.

But large-scale trading of cryptocurrencies has recreated the exact problem bitcoin was meant to solve: a “single point of failure.” Instead of “users hold(ing) the crypto-keys to their own money and transact(ing) directly with one another,” the global cryptocurrency market is dominated by massive exchanges that operate exactly like banks, except that they are unregulated and make their own rules.

A while back I wrote an article about the looming danger of blockchain-based currencies. They promise to do away with banks, but would be vulnerable to arbitrary government interference … and confiscation.

What are we to do, then?
As one cryptocurrency analyst has put it: “Problems of centralization cannot be solved through the same modes of thinking that created them. Instead, solutions require innovation from below.”
As I write, and as you read, developers are working furiously to create a mechanism for ordinary people to trade cryptocurrencies without centralized exchanges that function exactly like banks, with all their vulnerabilities. Theirs is an open-source project that can be studied, modified and freely shared, not a private money-making business. Until they succeed, my advice is to keep your bitcoin and other cryptocurrency investments modest.

Unless, of course, you fancy a 36% haircut out of the blue.

Kind regards,
Beware the Bitcoin Bail-In
Ted Bauman
Editor, The Bauman Letter

Editor’s Note: I, along with a few esteemed colleagues, publish our insight in our e-letters called Sovereign Investor Daily and Winning Investor Daily.. Every day, we send you our very best ideas to help protect and grow your wealth.

The article that you are quoting in full seems to be from August and December 2016.

Things move very quickly in the crypto-space, and even topics of concern change based on information that is known at that time and/or being investigated at that time.

It seems that your article is not accounting for a variety of recent facts and developments - in other words very old news. that could be very misleading to a large number of RVF guys who may be considering those various factors that are described in that article.

If you have a better way to put your quoted article into proper context, then it would be nice for you to clarify, otherwise, it seems to be very misleading in the current way that you have quoted it and even characterized it as "interesting."

The contents of the article cannot be too "interesting" if it misleads more than it clarifies. Am I right?
 
At this point, I'm doing far better than I realistically thought possible on Eth & Dash. I only wish I would've put more in initially.

However, I believe it's a giant pump and dump, and I'm trying to figure out when to get out. I don't wanna be the asshole left holding the sack . . .

'baller
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
lowbudgetballer said:
At this point, I'm doing far better than I realistically thought possible on Eth & Dash. I only wish I would've put more in initially.

However, I believe it's a giant pump and dump, and I'm trying to figure out when to get out. I don't wanna be the asshole left holding the sack . . .

'baller


Those are tough choices, yet it seems that part of the answer to any plan should be capital preservation and incrementalism... but I know that some guys like to attempt to time the market and to predict as close as they can to the top or the bottom. I am less comfortable with that kind of approach.

You may not make as much money if you engage in some form of incrementalism, but if you pull out a little a long the way, then you can protect yourself a bit.

By the way, you are in a much different place than me, because I am too nervous to
put much if any value into any of those kinds of coins, so already your mindset is a bit different than mine because if I had put any in, I would have pulled out a long time ago.

Anyhow, it makes sense that you recognize the two as likely pump and dumps, but I do understand part of your dilemma because each of those coins does have the potential for another 2-5x pump... is it likely< ??? I certainly don't know about that and I have my doubts, but there are a lot of unexpected things that take place in crypto space.
 

Skank_Hunt

Kingfisher
Gold Member
JayJuanGee said:
This below linked article suggests that Ethereum's recent price drop could be due to stolen coins, and that could be true... but I am thinking that Ethereum has kind of been in for a drop, and any excuse would be sufficient when confidence in Ethereum is likely dropping anyhow.


http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/12/06/eth-rep-crash-hard-amid-ciruclating-rumors-bo-shen-funds-stolen/

By the way, I had been thinking that ETC was going to hold a bit better of its own against ETH, and in recent months sure both ETH and ETC have been dropping in value (and maybe even partly due to rising BTC prices) - however, in the past several days, ETC has been holding its own a bit better to ETC and even rose a tiny bit while ETH has dropped considerably.


Man I'm just surprised how unequal the ETH fork distribution ended up.

ETC (technically the real and original ETH) now $2
ETH (technically an alt of ETH) $50

Shows so much of this is about marketing and which one the crowd believes will rise most in value. A distant, distant second would be the whole smart contracts thing.

Still, ETC has a mcap of 200m. However, its reddit is extremely slow. They claim to have a chat platform that is far more active, but even that is very slow too. I mean the Dogecoin subreddit was far more active in past times, but it's still active. ETC's reddit reads like that of a dead coin. The responses of the ETC community in the chat channel was that the ETC community is smaller but are constantly working on it rather than talking shit about it, which is a fair comment. But, BTC has devs constantly working on it and that still manages regular posts on reddit.

The inactivity of the subreddit concerns me a little, but I see ETC as maybe undervalued given that it is the original ETH. What do you guys think? Easier for $2 to go to $20 than BTC $1000 to $10,000. Heck, DOGE has doubled inevitably (but I did nothing) because it went so damn low. SIACOIN was once destined for certain death at extremely low satoshi prices, now I look on cmap and it's still actually alive and has made multibagger gains for some people. And that is definitely just another random shitcoin.

"ETH" as it is now named is around $50 with a $4b mcap, I think that's overvalued especially given how long it has been around vs BTC. lowbudgetballer, I'd take my profits now, not advice but if that was me I'd be happy with the gains.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Skank_Hunt said:
JayJuanGee said:
This below linked article suggests that Ethereum's recent price drop could be due to stolen coins, and that could be true... but I am thinking that Ethereum has kind of been in for a drop, and any excuse would be sufficient when confidence in Ethereum is likely dropping anyhow.


http://www.newsbtc.com/2016/12/06/eth-rep-crash-hard-amid-ciruclating-rumors-bo-shen-funds-stolen/

By the way, I had been thinking that ETC was going to hold a bit better of its own against ETH, and in recent months sure both ETH and ETC have been dropping in value (and maybe even partly due to rising BTC prices) - however, in the past several days, ETC has been holding its own a bit better to ETC and even rose a tiny bit while ETH has dropped considerably.


Man I'm just surprised how unequal the ETH fork distribution ended up.

ETC (technically the real and original ETH) now $2
ETH (technically an alt of ETH) $50

Shows so much of this is about marketing and which one the crowd believes will rise most in value. A distant, distant second would be the whole smart contracts thing.

Still, ETC has a mcap of 200m. However, its reddit is extremely slow. They claim to have a chat platform that is far more active, but even that is very slow too. I mean the Dogecoin subreddit was far more active in past times, but it's still active. ETC's reddit reads like that of a dead coin. The responses of the ETC community in the chat channel was that the ETC community is smaller but are constantly working on it rather than talking shit about it, which is a fair comment. But, BTC has devs constantly working on it and that still manages regular posts on reddit.

The inactivity of the subreddit concerns me a little, but I see ETC as maybe undervalued given that it is the original ETH. What do you guys think? Easier for $2 to go to $20 than BTC $1000 to $10,000. Heck, DOGE has doubled inevitably (but I did nothing) because it went so damn low. SIACOIN was once destined for certain death at extremely low satoshi prices, now I look on cmap and it's still actually alive and has made multibagger gains for some people. And that is definitely just another random shitcoin.

"ETH" as it is now named is around $50 with a $4b mcap, I think that's overvalued especially given how long it has been around vs BTC. lowbudgetballer, I'd take my profits now, not advice but if that was me I'd be happy with the gains.

There may be more people pumping Monero than ETC, but I would consider Monero in a similar category as ETC. Decent fundamentals without too much pumping going on.

And, even though I don't really look into the matters too much, I believe that I agree with you that ETC has pretty much the same functionality of ETH - but the price difference is considerable much greater now... like nearly a 1/25 ratio rather than a recent 1/10 ratio ..and even logic should dictate that with the passage of time, they could reach price parity... but does that mean ETH price comes down or ETC goes up, or maybe thoughts of parity are merely my own lack of attribution to some of the utility of an active ongoing marketing team?
 

Armogan

 
Banned
I wouldn't go into ETC, it seems most like a pump-and-dump that JJG talks about.

Why would you want to invest in something that has almost no fundamental, inherent value on its own? The development team has moved over to ETH and are focused on that. Can you run the same dApps on ETC, which is really the purpose of ETH?

The price seems to be purely driven by speculative nature, and people parking extra coins somewhere else temporarily. Sure it's coupled with ETH and if ETH doubles I guess ETC will rise. But I wouldn't be in something that I'm not bullish on it's fundamental underlying value.

If you want a 20x return you need to look a little deeper. GNT a dApp on ETH is essentially airbnb for computers. You can rent out CPU usage across the network. If the development team can achieve this, it could be a huge success and highly valuable.

Only trading at .45cents. I'd peg a 10x return more likely on this than ETC or BTC going up 10x. It's risk on top of risk, however, if ETH project falls apart this will likely too. Big upside though.
 

JayJuanGee

Crow
Gold Member
Armogan said:
I wouldn't go into ETC, it seems most like a pump-and-dump that JJG talks about.

Why would you want to invest in something that has almost no fundamental, inherent value on its own? The development team has moved over to ETH and are focused on that. Can you run the same dApps on ETC, which is really the purpose of ETH?

The price seems to be purely driven by speculative nature, and people parking extra coins somewhere else temporarily. Sure it's coupled with ETH and if ETH doubles I guess ETC will rise. But I wouldn't be in something that I'm not bullish on it's fundamental underlying value.

When I refer to something as a pump and dump, I am mostly considering matters in which there are insiders and marketing and quasi-centralization and no fundamental value.

As you seem to suggest there is no exact formula for what is or is not a pump and dump and sometime this may be a bit of an exaggerated characterization to merely conclude that some coin does not have fundamental value.

I appreciate your explanation regarding why you believe ETC to NOT have inherent value, yet I would not categorize it as a pump and dump, at least not at this stage of its life and what little history I have seen of it..
 
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