America First and Groypers thread

[It_is_my_time]

What are you talking about? Where are those mythical older/wiser men who achieved many things? Am I missing something here? None of the prominent wignats have achieved anything. Except for hours and hours of podcasts and their internet mental masturbation they achieved big fat 0 when it comes to actual politics. So at best, they're at the same level as America First people who have been active for what, 2 or 3 years?
If being wise comes down to stating "This won't work!", then call me super wise because I also don't believe in societal changes via political means. Not via democratic means at least. So your wise men's advice that building your own solutions is the way forward is also super naive, sorry.

We can skip their many books on the subjects that will be handed down for generations and their global connections (even if American First some how magically succeeded, the globalists would just bring in the Chinese army to crush them like bugs), we can compare straight up the last few months.

AFPAC - Israel First speeches with BBC doxxing members.
NJP - Actual American First speeches vetted and safe from the media

AFPAC - Now fighting with their hero Trump's own boys about who is a higher authority, God and the Bible or Trump.
Wignats - Just sitting back saying "told you so".

AFPAC - People duped by hero Trump now facing 20 years in prison and Trump doesn't even mention them.
Wignats - Stay away from the capitol, this is a trap.

It is really no comparison and that takes away the decades of books, interviews, and ideologies they built up.

 

[2 Right Hands]

Hold on, are we talking about the same guys that organised Charlottesville rally? The rally after which many people went to jail including James Fields who is now officially a murderer and a terrorist? Hope not because that would mean those sophisticated wise men are horrible at predicting outcomes of their moves.
The West is burning but at least we have wignat books and NJP, a party run by a Jew lover (see how easy it is?).

 

[It_is_my_time]

Hold on, are we talking about the same guys that organised Charlottesville rally? The rally after which many people went to jail including James Fields who is now officially a murderer and a terrorist? Hope not because that would mean those sophisticated wise men are horrible at predicting outcomes of their moves.
The West is burning but at least we have wignat books and NJP, a party run by a Jew lover (see how easy it is?).

Yes, Charlottesville, where they got govt. permission to give speeches and the govt. lied to them and denied them their first right amendments. 1 week to the day after the actual KKK held a govt. permitted rally in the very same park in Charlottesville.

Anyone who claims that they could see the future and knew the govt. would publicly deny first amendment rights to US citizens is a fraud and a phony. Since that time they went to college campuses, which was permitted for about 6 months and then that was illegally taken from them. And now they meet in private so they can actual hold rallies without the govt. attacking them.

The west is burning and AFPAC is applauding speeches about how Israel is our greatest ally and how Trump will come save the day, any day now.

Wignats lead their followers to safety after their experience in Charlottesville. AF has lead their followers right into the enemies den with BBC there to dox if they please.

 

[Cicero12]

The whole wignat thing and optics debate came down to them not being WISE, but in fact quite the opposite. These FOOLS touting Nazi symbols and talking about foreign concepts and strange esoteric terms like "volk" or throwing around sonnerads, or doing salutes. Do you realize how cringy that stuff is? This is an AMERICAN movement, we will use American symbols and American ideals. Tell me, oh wise wignat. What should we do going on?

It isn't infiltration, most people in the Republican party already. deep down agree with Nick. It requires the political backing of certain people already there who can offer their support. Steve King and Gosar are the keys to this.

Now are there issues with Fuentes? Yes. In fact I have a lot of problems with him. I knew about Nick from a discord chat back in 2017, and watched his show on and off since then.

As a leader he has proven grit and went from being a college dropout kid whose life was ruined by the Alt right. Running a livestreaming show, unique to anything before that. To now holding a proper political action committee in his mid twenties. Do you realize what this means? All this bitching we do about clown world and how bad things are going, and finally we have a voice and opportunity to really go and get what we want. Imagine if AF people could get in control of a state Republican party, this is currently feasible and people like Nick are building the infrastructure for that to happen in the near future. The Republican constituency is FURIOUS right now, NOW if ever is the time we can be doing something and taking that party!

 

[It_is_my_time]

The whole wignat thing and optics debate came down to them not being WISE, but in fact quite the opposite. These FOOLS touting Nazi symbols and talking about foreign concepts and strange esoteric terms like "volk" or throwing around sonnerads, or doing salutes. Do you realize how cringy that stuff is? This is an AMERICAN movement, we will use American symbols and American ideals. Tell me, oh wise wignat. What should we do going on?

It isn't infiltration, most people in the Republican party already. deep down agree with Nick. It requires the political backing of certain people already there who can offer their support. Steve King and Gosar are the keys to this.

Now are there issues with Fuentes? Yes. In fact I have a lot of problems with him. I knew about Nick from a discord chat back in 2017, and watched his show on and off since then.

As a leader he has proven grit and went from being a college dropout kid whose life was ruined by the Alt right. Running a livestreaming show, unique to anything before that. To now holding a proper political action committee in his mid twenties. Do you realize what this means? All this bitching we do about clown world and how bad things are going, and finally we have a voice and opportunity to really go and get what we want. Imagine if AF people could get in control of a state Republican party, this is currently feasible and people like Nick are building the infrastructure for that to happen in the near future. The Republican constituency is FURIOUS right now, NOW if ever is the time we can be doing something and taking that party!

So what is "American" then when your stars (Goser and King) give "Israel is our greatest ally" speeches that might as well been held at AIPAC. Goser's AFPAC speech was almost the same as his CPAC speech. The last 70 years of American policy has been Israel First and if you want to challenge this, then are you truly "American First"?

I understand what Nick and AF wants. They want 2016 Donald Trump talking points put into action. They are fair, they are mostly politically safe, and they are reasonable. Win - win - win.

But they will never be allowed. Trump himself with his so called "fuck you money" (btw, no one has this) couldn't even get them started when he was in "the most powerful position in the world".

The only difference in the wignats and the AF in terms of ideology is the wignats know that the AF ideas will never be allowed in the current system. I didn't believe the wignats on this until I saw Trump get nothing done, then throw his supporters under the bus, then back the bus back up to make sure he got them all, and took hundreds of millions of dollars and ran. Now Trump is back, because the elites see they can use him to get their way by keeping the "conservative" base sedated, and likely Trump runs and wins in 2024 and the AF agenda doesn't advance at all and eventually becomes TPUSA and establishment GOP. The clock runs out, it is 2028, and the USA is an open air prison with no middle class and no chance at anyone to the right of Nancy Pelosi winning the presidency again.

 

[2 Right Hands]

Yes, Charlottesville, where they got govt. permission to give speeches and the govt. lied to them and denied them their first right amendments. 1 week to the day after the actual KKK held a govt. permitted rally in the very same park in Charlottesville.

Anyone who claims that they could see the future and knew the govt. would publicly deny first amendment rights to US citizens is a fraud and a phony. Since that time they went to college campuses, which was permitted for about 6 months and then that was illegally taken from them. And now they meet in private so they can actual hold rallies without the govt. attacking them.

The west is burning and AFPAC is applauding speeches about how Israel is our greatest ally and how Trump will come save the day, any day now.

Wignats lead their followers to safety after their experience in Charlottesville. AF has lead their followers right into the enemies den with BBC there to dox if they please.

I know what happened in Charlottesville and believe me, many people on the broad right, said before the rally that it's just a trap. And many people decided not to go there because of that. So don't tell me it was such a shock that the government decided to use the rally to show how deadly and dangerous "white supremacists" are. It's not like up until this point US government had always played clean and respected the law.

My problem with wignats is this nauseating purity spiraling which you're displaying too, unfortunately. Just because some boomer guest couldn't stop being a boomer (and let's not forget he's still as based as a boomer can be) and had to throw cringe "Judeo-Christianity" here and there, doesn't mean AFPAC is now pro-Isreal. You're just being disingenuous. Just because they failed to vet attendees properly, it doesn't mean they are somehow a threat to their supporters. All the things you're accusing AFPAC of, can pretty much be said about wignat movements.

I personally think AFPAC will not achieve anything in terms of political impact. This part is naive at best. But they still have a good chance of creating a platform for Christians and Whites where they can feel they're not alone. A proper Christian community, with good moral values.

And what do wignats have to offer with their tainted image of Hitler worshipping skinheads? Pagan esoterism for disgruntled Whites? No, thanks.

 

[It_is_my_time]

I know what happened in Charlottesville and believe me, many people on the broad right, said before the rally that it's just a trap. And many people decided not to go there because of that. So don't tell me it was such a shock that the government decided to use the rally to show how deadly and dangerous "white supremacists" are. It's not like up until this point US government had always played clean and respected the law.

My problem with wignats is this nauseating purity spiraling which you're displaying too, unfortunately. Just because some boomer guest couldn't stop being a boomer (and let's not forget he's still as based as a boomer can be) and had to throw cringe "Judeo-Christianity" here and there, doesn't mean AFPAC is now pro-Isreal. You're just being disingenuous. Just because they failed to vet attendees properly, it doesn't mean they are somehow a threat to their supporters. All the things you're accusing AFPAC of, can pretty much be said about wignat movements.

I personally think AFPAC will not achieve anything in terms of political impact. This part is naive at best. But they still have a good chance of creating a platform for Christians and Whites where they can feel they're not alone. A proper Christian community, with good moral values.

And what do wignats have to offer with their tainted image of Hitler worshipping skinheads? Pagan esoterism for disgruntled Whites? No, thanks.

Yes, it was a huge shock that the govt. would work with an organization to have a safe rally, and then the day of the rally throw out the 1A and let chaos reign. This had not happened before at an organized rally. To say someone knew the govt. would boldly throw the 1A in the trash bin in broad daylight is pretty unreasonable. Sure people knew they would get doxxed, but to actually have the police allow you to be attacked and harmed, then you get charged for defending yourself, is another level we had not seen at that time.

It seems you and @Cicero12 are assigning the very autistic thoughts to wignat thoughts. I understand this, there are autistic thoughts out there, I think Murdoch Murdoch did a cartoon about this a few years ago and the pure white phenotype.

Wignats are not White Nationalism 1.0. They would welcome those folks but they wouldn't be given a leadership role, other than David Duke, but if you have not listened to David Duke or heard him, then you would have to do so first to understand why that would be. Wignats would also welcome American First members. They know the odds and numbers are against them in this fight and would welcome the allies. But it seems it is the AF guys who attack the wignats for optics and the split remains.

My personal wish is that the split would be fixed and the two sides could work together, like they did in 2016, but at the same time the AF have to understand Trump isn't going to help them and this is probably the biggest hurdle in all of this. Trump's ability to manipulate people is on a level I have never seen before. And that is my favorite subject, communication.

 

[El Chinito loco]

I don’t even dislike Fuentes but how do groypers here explain the Louis Theroux exclusive documentary access?

Just this simple question.

 

[It_is_my_time]

I don’t even dislike Fuentes but how do groypers here explain the Louis Theroux exclusive documentary access?

Just this simple question.

I think this is where the "optics debate" will come back to haunt the AF/Groypers.

AF/Groypers think they can sell their ideas to the blue pilled majority and win them over. They are right that they can do so, because their ideas are very common sense and very politically correct. The problem is that becomes their desire and they will gladly welcome the main stream/enemy press in so they can get the word out.

The press then uses this against them, cuts up the interview to make them look bad. lies about them and is able to paint them in a negative light. The older wignat guys already realize this and they either are fully prepared for the press, including full recording of all interviews or just avoiding the press altogether.

 

[El Chinito loco]

I think this is where the "optics debate" will come back to haunt the AF/Groypers.

AF/Groypers think they can sell their ideas to the blue pilled majority and win them over. They are right that they can do so, because their ideas are very common sense and very politically correct. The problem is that becomes their desire and they will gladly welcome the main stream/enemy press in so they can get the word out.

That's the thing..I don't think Fuentes is naive or most of the groypers are stupid.

Theroux is a very well known media figure who clowns on the subjects he covers. He is your standard dry British commentator covering topics which they (mainstream media) finds "abhorrent" and then they proceed to cut down whatever they find objectionable in a passive aggressive way.

Whenever Theroux is there to cover something then the parties responsible have to know that 100% he (Theroux) is there to sabotage whatever message or image they are trying to portray. That is literally his whole career.

The fact that Theroux was invited with full access makes you wonder who is actually in charge.

 

[2 Right Hands]

Yes, it was a huge shock that the govt. would work with an organization to have a safe rally, and then the day of the rally throw out the 1A and let chaos reign. This had not happened before at an organized rally. To say someone knew the govt. would boldly throw the 1A in the trash bin in broad daylight is pretty unreasonable. Sure people knew they would get doxxed, but to actually have the police allow you to be attacked and harmed, then you get charged for defending yourself, is another level we had not seen at that time.

It seems you and @Cicero12 are assigning the very autistic thoughts to wignat thoughts. I understand this, there are autistic thoughts out there, I think Murdoch Murdoch did a cartoon about this a few years ago and the pure white phenotype.

Wignats are not White Nationalism 1.0. They would welcome those folks but they wouldn't be given a leadership role, other than David Duke, but if you have not listened to David Duke or heard him, then you would have to do so first to understand why that would be. Wignats would also welcome American First members. They know the odds and numbers are against them in this fight and would welcome the allies. But it seems it is the AF guys who attack the wignats for optics and the split remains.

My personal wish is that the split would be fixed and the two sides could work together, like they did in 2016, but at the same time the AF have to understand Trump isn't going to help them and this is probably the biggest hurdle in all of this. Trump's ability to manipulate people is on a level I have never seen before. And that is my favorite subject, communication.

Look, we probably want the same thing (albeit coming from different perspectives). In terms of ideas, there is huge overlap between both movements. There is clearly some ego tripping on both sides which makes peace talks difficult if not impossible at this moment. I don't even know what their main beef is anymore, as I stopped paying attention to alt-right some time ago and I didn't follow AF too closely lately either.
I just find it bizarre that you keep presenting those white nationalists as some kind of great thinkers who can outsmart everyone because of their knowledge and experience, yet somehow, never managed to build a viable platform for White people.
I don't care about politics (which, as everyone knows, are fake and gay) but I do care about energy and atmosphere a new movement can bring to the table. Alt-right feels stale and their leaders bitter. I don't need their super deep dives, obscure philosophies, 5D chess playing predictions.
If David Duke, Mike Enoch or Richard Spencer manage to make a whole room of young, White men chant "Jesus is King!" (like Nick and Vincent did), they'll have my utmost respect. Until then, I'm out.

 

[It_is_my_time]

Look, we probably want the same thing (albeit coming from different perspectives). In terms of ideas, there is huge overlap between both movements. There is clearly some ego tripping on both sides which makes peace talks difficult if not impossible at this moment. I don't even know what their main beef is anymore, as I stopped paying attention to alt-right some time ago and I didn't follow AF too closely lately either.
I just find it bizarre that you keep presenting those white nationalists as some kind of great thinkers who can outsmart everyone because of their knowledge and experience, yet somehow, never managed to build a viable platform for White people.
I don't care about politics (which, as everyone knows, are fake and gay) but I do care about energy and atmosphere a new movement can bring to the table. Alt-right feels stale and their leaders bitter. I don't need their super deep dives, obscure philosophies, 5D chess playing predictions.
If David Duke, Mike Enoch or Richard Spencer manage to make a whole room of young, White men chant "Jesus is King!" (like Nick and Vincent did), they'll have my utmost respect. Until then, I'm out.

They are great thinkers. Some of their shows are low brow, some are middle brow, and some are very high brow and you pretty much have to take breaks to process through what they are talking about. They definitely have changed the way I see things on most every subject of importance

As for building things, this all got started when Trump won and then turned his back on his base and his 2016 promises. Both AF and the Alt-Right have been at the same thing for the same amount of time. It appears AF is already co-opted or even worse. I want their supporters to realize this to protect themselves.

I wasn't overly upset about it until I saw how bad the AFPAC was and then seeing Grinnell getting more likes for supporting Trump v. Our Lord and Savior. That makes me furuious and I realize just how dangerous Trump is becoming.

 

[El Chinito loco]

I don't care about politics (which, as everyone knows, are fake and gay) but I do care about energy and atmosphere a new movement can bring to the table. Alt-right feels stale and their leaders bitter. I don't need their super deep dives, obscure philosophies, 5D chess playing predictions.
If David Duke, Mike Enoch or Richard Spencer manage to make a whole room of young, White men chant "Jesus is King!" (like Nick and Vincent did), they'll have my utmost respect. Until then, I'm out.

Let me get this straight.. you don't care about politics but you will follow a political personality and proclaim your distaste of people you imply are demagogues but yet if they (alt right figures) were to pump up a whole room of dopamine receptors in young men enough to chant platitudes then you would follow those other people until the end instead of this one personality you favor?

 

[Easy_C]

I’m not seeing any viable solutions or progress here because most of these folks still want to be able to go on in a first world mentality. In reality I don’t think there is any solution that doesn’t involve dramatically less safety and comfort, including the “solution” of just submitting which means you get a front row seat to societal collapse.

 

[El Chinito loco]

I’m not seeing any viable solutions or progress here because most of these folks still want to be able to go on in a first world mentality. In reality I don’t think there is any solution that doesn’t involve dramatically less safety and comfort, including the “solution” of just submitting which means you get a front row seat to societal collapse.

Yeah, the color revolution bus left a long time ago. There was a similar debate in 2018 where I scoffed at the idea of a color revolution that would favor the nationalistic right. It is clear as day that the nominal "left" won that revolution already.

Bloodless revolutions don't succeed without greater geopolitical powers playing their hand. I can already see lots of retards saying "Russia!" or "China!" but the reality is the problems in the U.S. are due to one tribe which pulls all the strings and always have for at least 80+ years already.

 

[2 Right Hands]

Let me get this straight.. you don't care about politics but you will follow a political personality and proclaim your distaste of people you imply are demagogues but yet if they (alt right figures) were to pump up a whole room of dopamine receptors in young men enough to chant platitudes then you would follow those other people until the end instead of this one personality you favor?

I do not follow any political personalities and I most certainly don't think alt-right leaders or thinkers are demagogues. Where did you get that? I agree with their ideas and observations to great extent but when it comes to providing real life solutions they've been impotent. That's not a definition of a demagogue, is it?
And yes, if young men are pumped up because they are able to scream proudly they're Christians and believe Jesus is King (apparently a platitude in your opinion) then whoever led them is worthy of my respect.

 

[El Chinito loco]

I do not follow any political personalities and I most certainly don't think alt-right leaders or thinkers are demagogues. Where did you get that? I agree with their ideas and observations to great extent but when it comes to providing real life solutions they've been impotent.

Ok, how is inviting Louis Theroux to observe and document a dissident political conference for the BBC equate to "providing real life solutions?"

And yes, if young men are pumped up because they are able to scream proudly they're Christians and believe Jesus is King (apparently a platitude in your opinion) then whoever led them is worthy of my respect.

Yes, you can compel anyone to scream or chant anything if pumped up enough. The question is do they and would they have the fortitude to stand up for their beliefs in any meaningful way? I'm not judging but just asking.

Online streaming grifter evangelists like Joel Osteen make millions compelling people to throw money around and scream platitudes.

It certainly matters where and what purpose that energy is being directed.

 

[2 Right Hands]

Ok, how is inviting Louis Theroux to observe and document a dissident political conference for the BBC equate to "providing real life solutions?"

Why would inviting (rightly or wrongly) some journalist to an event that was clearly meant to be non-secret equating or not to "real life solutions"? What does one have to do with the other? The solution was the PAC itself as well as the AF movement. Is it going to be a working solution? I don't know, we'll see. They could have hosted their event in some random barn but why would they?

Yes, you can compel anyone to scream or chant anything if pumped up enough. The question is do they and would they have the fortitude to stand up for their beliefs in any meaningful way? I'm not judging but just asking.

Online streaming grifter evangelists like Joel Osteen make millions compelling people to throw money around and scream platitudes.

It certainly matters where and what purpose that energy is being directed.

Clearly, we're not talking about some random crowd of people. If patriotic, White men are pumped enough to proudly and genuinely express their love for Jesus during a political event then that's one of the best signs ever, for me. Will they have the fortitude to stand up for their faith? I don't know this, obviously, but since Christianity was the key component of AF from day one I would like to think so.

 

[It_is_my_time]

Maybe Trump can be bad enough on his own to shake these guys out of their Trump worship stupor.

 

[godfather dust]

AFPAC was deadly for the "optics/GOP infiltration" theory.

They had two guys in front of them (King, Gosar) who have held office as Republicans.

King was 1000 times LESS anti-establishment when he was in the same room as Fuentes than he was when he held office and had nothing to do with the groypers.

Gosar stumbled through a bad speech where he didn't mention the single issue his political career is centered around (Israel.)

Also, Patrick Casey being denounced as a "hater/jealous" for bringing up OPSEC issues...
When not only was there no OPSEC but an active attack on the safety of members (the BBC being invited.)