America has become a HUGE scam
- Thread starter nomadicdude
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nomadicdude
Kingfisher
cardguy said:
That is too simplistic and sorta mediocre as you are basically saying any rich nation should ignore it's problems because, obviously, there always will be people from developing countries who want to move to the US, Canada, Australia/NZ and the EU.
And it's ironic that alot of conservatives in America love to pretend that rich people are RUNNING out of the country to avoid taxes, and others are renouncing their US citizenship.
nomadicdude
Kingfisher
@hotwheels: Yes, though I am not moving abroad to make money. I already have a good nest egg to survive while I figure stuff out.
It is simplistic. But - you gotta' live somewhere. And you are limited to a country somewhere on Earth.
Not many options better than America.
Anyway - it is a funny thing to remember. I always use it as an easy shorthand to explain to liberals why Africa is shit and Europe (or America) is good.
"You can't say that - that's raaacccciiiisssst", they complain.
"Well - how come more people from over there wanna' live here, than people over here wanna' live over there?"
Simples.
Not many options better than America.
Anyway - it is a funny thing to remember. I always use it as an easy shorthand to explain to liberals why Africa is shit and Europe (or America) is good.
"You can't say that - that's raaacccciiiisssst", they complain.
"Well - how come more people from over there wanna' live here, than people over here wanna' live over there?"
Simples.
You can call America a 'scam' all you want, it's still easy as hell to get ahead in this country if you know how to play the game.
In my hometown dudes working mediocre jobs bitch constantly about the lack of opportunity, how they're stuck making $10 an hour, etc. I tell 'em to save up a couple thousand dollars, move to North Dakota for a year or two, stack $$$ and develop skills they can use worldwide. Nothing but excuses from most of them.
The system may be stacked but it's not impenetrable. Develop a valuable skillset, save some money, parlay it into favorable investments. Rinse and repeat. Start a business, develop a list of clients, then contract out the work to other people. Sell the business if it gets big enough and the price is right.
If you're not comfortable taking risks, perhaps America is not the place for you. Move to Europe and enjoy a nearly-guaranteed middle-class existence. But this country still greatly rewards those of us with initiative and balls.
If there's a nation on earth where it's easier to make big money and get ahead, let me know. I'm all ears.
In my hometown dudes working mediocre jobs bitch constantly about the lack of opportunity, how they're stuck making $10 an hour, etc. I tell 'em to save up a couple thousand dollars, move to North Dakota for a year or two, stack $$$ and develop skills they can use worldwide. Nothing but excuses from most of them.
The system may be stacked but it's not impenetrable. Develop a valuable skillset, save some money, parlay it into favorable investments. Rinse and repeat. Start a business, develop a list of clients, then contract out the work to other people. Sell the business if it gets big enough and the price is right.
If you're not comfortable taking risks, perhaps America is not the place for you. Move to Europe and enjoy a nearly-guaranteed middle-class existence. But this country still greatly rewards those of us with initiative and balls.
If there's a nation on earth where it's easier to make big money and get ahead, let me know. I'm all ears.
nomadicdude said:
The guy that started WhatsApp is an immigrant living off of welfare at one point and now a billionaire. According to you it isn't possible yet he did it. Taxing more will just keep others from achieving wealth. It won't hurt the people that are already wealthy.
You are better off, in the long term, accepting responsibility for your failures instead of blaming someone else. You can easily change if you take control. Blaming others takes that control away.
This post is the flip side of all the Ayn Rand Cult posts.
Social mobility in America is alive and well, at least if you are above-average intelligence. If you're average or below, you are somewhat fucked now. Those high-wage manufacturing and service jobs requiring only simple skills are gone.
Get a degree, get to work. There are many pathways to success. I am happy to give advice for a specific plan based on your situation if you PM me.
Social mobility in America is alive and well, at least if you are above-average intelligence. If you're average or below, you are somewhat fucked now. Those high-wage manufacturing and service jobs requiring only simple skills are gone.
Get a degree, get to work. There are many pathways to success. I am happy to give advice for a specific plan based on your situation if you PM me.
nomadicdude
Kingfisher
@cardguy:
Not trying to argue but I use to think that exact thing: Africa is shit, etc. America is no. 1 cause ppl want to move here, etc. But that is a really simplistic argument. We live in a short span of human history. When I was growing up China was a pure shit third world country, now it is a feared economic superpower. In the city I grew up in there were loads of immigrants from South Korea and Taiwan because those countries had really poor economies back in the 60's, 70's, even 80's. Now, where you would rather be economically? There's a good argument that South Korea and Taiwan have brighter economic futures than America. So my point is that shit changes. We just look at it through a really short term prism but shit changes and there is no saying that Africa or India or Cuba won't be super rich places in 20 years or whatever and Americans will look up to them like they do with China now.
Not trying to argue but I use to think that exact thing: Africa is shit, etc. America is no. 1 cause ppl want to move here, etc. But that is a really simplistic argument. We live in a short span of human history. When I was growing up China was a pure shit third world country, now it is a feared economic superpower. In the city I grew up in there were loads of immigrants from South Korea and Taiwan because those countries had really poor economies back in the 60's, 70's, even 80's. Now, where you would rather be economically? There's a good argument that South Korea and Taiwan have brighter economic futures than America. So my point is that shit changes. We just look at it through a really short term prism but shit changes and there is no saying that Africa or India or Cuba won't be super rich places in 20 years or whatever and Americans will look up to them like they do with China now.
There will always be disadvantaged people doesn´t matter in which society you live in. You can see it as a scam and still try your best to get ahead. But many scams begin with telling how you can become rich the easy way. That is what happens all the time. Reminds me of the sidekick of Tim Ferris who became a workaholic by working like a slave for him and got burnt out in the process.
I was going to post a long-winded reply explaining why I believe America is the "least worst" country to start a business or improve yourself. Then I decided instead to go for a run, then study for a certification that will improve my marketability, followed by going out to dinner with people involved in my industry to drum up leads on new work opportunities.
Others will spend the time posting sob stories. The choice is up to you.
Others will spend the time posting sob stories. The choice is up to you.
Yeah - but China is pretty shit as well.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybu...between-chinese-and-american-households-debt/
The government of China is suppressing their people's living standards.
So - that more jobs can be created. The people of China are kept artificially poor and are kept reasonable happy by being guaranteed jobs.
Pretty fucked up if you ask me.
And Japan is fucked up as well. Turns out everything we thought we knew about Japan 'taking over the world' (back in the 80's) was a lie.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-22791-post-454209.html#pid454209
http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybu...between-chinese-and-american-households-debt/
The government of China is suppressing their people's living standards.
So - that more jobs can be created. The people of China are kept artificially poor and are kept reasonable happy by being guaranteed jobs.
Pretty fucked up if you ask me.
And Japan is fucked up as well. Turns out everything we thought we knew about Japan 'taking over the world' (back in the 80's) was a lie.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-22791-post-454209.html#pid454209
nomadicdude
Kingfisher
@ cardguy: hah, that is a really typical American attitude but in a lot of respect what China is going right now is amazing. Sure it is not at the level of the US but its growth rates and infrastructure are pretty unbelievable. I spent two months going across China once and it is ridiculous how good the infrastructure is compared to America. It definitely is the place of the future whereas America may not be.
And Japan is still a really rich place. If anything it's biggest problem is that it does not allow enough immigration in order to support the safety net for all the older people retiring.
And Japan is still a really rich place. If anything it's biggest problem is that it does not allow enough immigration in order to support the safety net for all the older people retiring.
Well - I am worried about China. Alot of investors think there is a giant property/infrastructure bubble in China which will burst and cause a financial crisis of 2008 proportions. But worse. It is something that I think is a real possibility.
China has alot of ghost towns. Just like Ireland before its property crash.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19049254
China has alot of ghost towns. Just like Ireland before its property crash.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19049254
I really wonder sometimes how much these America whiners have traveled. CardGuy's analysis is simplistic but it's also powerful. Do you know what the dowry price of a Yemeni - American girl is? $50-75k easy. This is dramatically higher than her peers for only one reason, she can petition her husband for an immigrant visa! Why do Cubans set sail on makeshift rafts that the crew from Gilligan's Island wouldn't touch risking death? Why was I offered $10k by a Russian girl in Baltimore to marry her?
Did you read that there was a 500% increase in Americans who renounced their citizenship? Do you know the actual yearly figure that increase represents? Less than ONE THOUSAND. That's out of a nation of more than THREE HUNDRED MILLION.
The demise of America is greatly exaggerated on this board. America spends more on its military than the next 10 combined. It is the only country with the ability to sustainably project power anywhere in the world. It is still the number one economy. American culture has been so absorbed by the rest of the world they don't even consider it American anymore. It is fucking irritating to listen to people in Egypt bad mouth America while wearing blue jeans and superman t-shirt, smoking a Marlboro cigarette, while posting to Twitter or Facebook from their iPhone using the WiFi at the neighborhood McDonald's. Oh and the Facebook post was about how excited they are too go see Capt. America: The Winter Soldier when it is released worldwide by Hollywood.
The day America is truly in trouble is the day it enacts exit visa requirements on its citizens (Russia anyone? ). Until then, maybe dial down the America hysteria. If you want to leave forever, explore the world, sow some wild oats in foreign pussy, then go right ahead. Just do me one favor and don't go running to the US government for protection if things don't work out for you in your new poosey paradise.
Rant over
Did you read that there was a 500% increase in Americans who renounced their citizenship? Do you know the actual yearly figure that increase represents? Less than ONE THOUSAND. That's out of a nation of more than THREE HUNDRED MILLION.
The demise of America is greatly exaggerated on this board. America spends more on its military than the next 10 combined. It is the only country with the ability to sustainably project power anywhere in the world. It is still the number one economy. American culture has been so absorbed by the rest of the world they don't even consider it American anymore. It is fucking irritating to listen to people in Egypt bad mouth America while wearing blue jeans and superman t-shirt, smoking a Marlboro cigarette, while posting to Twitter or Facebook from their iPhone using the WiFi at the neighborhood McDonald's. Oh and the Facebook post was about how excited they are too go see Capt. America: The Winter Soldier when it is released worldwide by Hollywood.
The day America is truly in trouble is the day it enacts exit visa requirements on its citizens (Russia anyone? ). Until then, maybe dial down the America hysteria. If you want to leave forever, explore the world, sow some wild oats in foreign pussy, then go right ahead. Just do me one favor and don't go running to the US government for protection if things don't work out for you in your new poosey paradise.
Rant over
nomadicdude said:
I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts on this matter, but you aren't considering enough factors for your opinion to have validity.
Chinese infrastructure is impressive in some areas and downright disappointing in others. Also, it is essential, considering the nature of Chinese demographics.
However, high speed trail railways don't equal ease of access when starting a business or attempting to gain an education.
Beijing University is harder for Chinese to get into than Harvard is for Americans to get into.
There just aren't enough universities in China for the average person to consider a post-secondary education and even when the lucky ones who can graduate, living at home with parents is essentially, because an average wage for an entry level university graduate is $200/month in cities where your rent is going be a lot higher than that if you don't live on a park bench.
It isn't easy for the Chinese to travel abroad. Americans can go just about anywhere if they have the cash.
High school is free in America. In China, you've got to compete for the top tier high schools, because simply graduating doesn't guarantee much at all.
I could go on, but it should be obvious already that the USA offers much more opportunity at a base level than China, regardless of infrastructure.
Why do I prefer to live in China? It's the best way for me to maximize all the advantages of being born and growing up in North America.
For Chinese, they'd give their liver to have grown up in the ol' USA, despite its flaws.
Starting a business legally in China is a very complicated process. In the US, you don't even need to register in a lot of cases to operated as a sole proprietorship.
nomadicdude
Kingfisher
@ runnninutebball: I am not denying that people want to move to America. I am saying why does that matter? That is like saying on a personal level you should not try to improve yourself by working out or getting more education or making more money because as an American you are already "better off" than 90% of people on Earth. See my point. I don't really see how what you are saying is relevant to the problems in America. You should not ignore the bigtime problems in America just because some dude from the Punjab wants to move here to open a gas station.
And I've traveled a ton for what it's worth.
And I've traveled a ton for what it's worth.
I'm not the one claiming the whole culture is a scam. You haven't offered any solid evidence that America is a bad place to live. You haven't shown that upward mobility had become impossible in America.
I can see from my own family that upward, and downward, mobility is possible. The upwardly mobile member of my extended family works 16 hour days, reads like all the time, is an entrepreneur,. The downward? Drugs, laziness, inability to stick with a job, uses books as door stops. Me? I'm in between extremes.
As for travels, my experience reinforced that America is a pretty great place to live. If yours was different, good for you
I can see from my own family that upward, and downward, mobility is possible. The upwardly mobile member of my extended family works 16 hour days, reads like all the time, is an entrepreneur,. The downward? Drugs, laziness, inability to stick with a job, uses books as door stops. Me? I'm in between extremes.
As for travels, my experience reinforced that America is a pretty great place to live. If yours was different, good for you
I called this already:
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-33493-post-670710.html#pid670710
Poverty mindset.
I used to live in a car, pieces of my story are scattered around here.
My family was below the poverty line for several years.
I respect money. I followed the opposite of what OP is doing. I didn't blame the rich. I simply ignored the advice of the poor
Today?
No I am not an 8 figure man. But if I got fired today I would never have to work again in many countries (if I felt like it).
I don't make excuses, I take the best course of action.
Can "everyone" make it up the socio economic curve? No.
However if you continue to think like the Op you will never be rich because you already gave up "it isn't possible". Well guess what man I am living fucking proof.
Here's the trick.
Don't expect to get money for nothing. You need to be someone of value to make money.
Or you can just complain and quit. You're on the wrong path. Steer the ship back on course and stop listening to your broke ass professors. I know they are pouring this venom down your throat. "Nod and smile" and ignore... Find a better mentor.
I was in the bottom 20% of America. If I was in the bottom 20% in any other country I would be completely fucked.
http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-33493-post-670710.html#pid670710
Poverty mindset.
I used to live in a car, pieces of my story are scattered around here.
My family was below the poverty line for several years.
I respect money. I followed the opposite of what OP is doing. I didn't blame the rich. I simply ignored the advice of the poor
Today?
No I am not an 8 figure man. But if I got fired today I would never have to work again in many countries (if I felt like it).
I don't make excuses, I take the best course of action.
Can "everyone" make it up the socio economic curve? No.
However if you continue to think like the Op you will never be rich because you already gave up "it isn't possible". Well guess what man I am living fucking proof.
Here's the trick.
Don't expect to get money for nothing. You need to be someone of value to make money.
Or you can just complain and quit. You're on the wrong path. Steer the ship back on course and stop listening to your broke ass professors. I know they are pouring this venom down your throat. "Nod and smile" and ignore... Find a better mentor.
I was in the bottom 20% of America. If I was in the bottom 20% in any other country I would be completely fucked.
nomadicdude said:
As much as I hate how feminisim has destroyed America. This country is the number one place in the world where "anyone", regardless of race, gender, or money can not only do very well but become a billionaire on their own merit.
The only hurdle is yourself. However, if you want a free ride instead you can have that too. Here are some highlights of the freebies.
Free healthcare for children under 21 in most states
Free public education and Free college education for the poor in most states.
Welfare system that is so generous that many on it choose not to get a job.
Social Security, Disabilitly, Medicare/Medicaid.
Cost of living can be dirt cheap in tons of places and you can live anywhere in the country that you want.
The OP needs to be specific on how America keeps a poor person down and won't let him rise up to all that he can be.
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