kel
Ostrich
Lodge is a quite good and cheap American brand, too. All made in the US except the enameled stuff, unfortunately, which is Chinese.
America Is A Dumping Ground For Junk
- Thread starter Roosh
- Start date
To be fair, armies usually do invest more in their critical gear than ordinary consumer goods companies, which is why the surplus stuff is valued by outdoorsmen.
I agree about shoes. For example, a $250 Red Wing boot could last you a good 10+ years depending on use, but a $60 sneaker wears out in a year.
wayfaringstranger
Kingfisher
Exactly they keep increasing profits at the expense of quality, like US automakers started doing. Even companies like LL Bean now have shoddy quality.
Also points to what a lie 'global warming' is. Not that I don't think we should seriously cut pollution - but the globalist 'solution' involves expanding China's manufacturing output to dump even more junk, shipping it thousands of miles to 'keep the economy going'.
Wall Street globalists want you to keep buying useless junk.
Grow Bag
Woodpecker
I always had a respect for a lot of American made products, it's such a shame that there was no hard push-back when the US began outsourcing jobs overseas, especially to China. As matter of fact I've just bought a Milton S921 tyre pressure gauge, because it's analogue, made in Chicago and if I can hang on to it, should last me a lifetime, unlike the junk Chinese gauges I've had.
The Resilient
Ostrich
I've also noticed the quality of just about anything I purchase to be of significantly lower value with my dollar over the recent years of my adulthood in my early 30s vs my teens and 20s. I thought I was the only one that noticed this for the longest.
Should we make a thread of long lasting quality items for men @Roosh ? I'll start one ... Maybe the forum could have a sub of quality men's products and general goods that last ?
Should we make a thread of long lasting quality items for men @Roosh ? I'll start one ... Maybe the forum could have a sub of quality men's products and general goods that last ?
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lairofdionysus
Robin
Yeah, the main reason there was no "push-back" is because people became super greedy in America, especially around that time and in the midst of things going on with the Vietnam war. When everyone was told how great "offshoring" would be and how much cheaper they could have items manufactured along with much higher profit margins, everyone blindly got on the band-wagon and thought it would be a great thing. They were also short-sighted in thinking it would only be for some industries rather than an overall plan to de-industrialize the USA to a point where almost nothing would be made here any more.
The other downfall of the over-electronification of modern cars is that you could be subject to hacking, and might end up crashing at a high speed into a strip mall store, like billionaire Ray Dalio's son:
or investigative journalist Michael Hastings, whose new Mercedes crashed on a tree and burned the week before he was due to release his report on corruption in the Afghanistan war:
But back on the main subject, I think the shift towards crap merchandise in the US is also due to the changing demographics, immigrants and minorities tend to buy the cheapest products from places like Walmart, partly because many are newly minted middle or lower middle class who are just happy to acquire stuff and are always into cutting corners.
That's also part of the problem with Chinese made stuff, the people making them and buying them in China have never had any quality possessions. For example, the kind of bicycles they used to ride up to the 1990s were crap versions of 1940s western designs. In Germany on the other had, the Benedictine monks were already manufacturing quality goods in the middle ages, so there is a tradition of craftsmanship that is over a thousand years old. The Chinese lost that in the two generations that went through communism.
A lot of my WASPy friends are tinkerers who are into repairing stuff as a hobby, including some who are pretty well off and drive old Volvos and Subarus. One of my buddies has a great nicely equipped garage that he lets me use to maintain my old German wheels.
On the flipside, a lot of us whites do get bamboozled by brands that cater to us, especially in the high-end outdoor clothing and equipment segment, like this $900 light jacket for example:
It doesn't have any expensive material like down feathers or fur, basically made of petroleum products and a zipper. It's probably great quality, but you can get the same quality for less than half the price from places like LL Bean.
or investigative journalist Michael Hastings, whose new Mercedes crashed on a tree and burned the week before he was due to release his report on corruption in the Afghanistan war:
But back on the main subject, I think the shift towards crap merchandise in the US is also due to the changing demographics, immigrants and minorities tend to buy the cheapest products from places like Walmart, partly because many are newly minted middle or lower middle class who are just happy to acquire stuff and are always into cutting corners.
That's also part of the problem with Chinese made stuff, the people making them and buying them in China have never had any quality possessions. For example, the kind of bicycles they used to ride up to the 1990s were crap versions of 1940s western designs. In Germany on the other had, the Benedictine monks were already manufacturing quality goods in the middle ages, so there is a tradition of craftsmanship that is over a thousand years old. The Chinese lost that in the two generations that went through communism.
A lot of my WASPy friends are tinkerers who are into repairing stuff as a hobby, including some who are pretty well off and drive old Volvos and Subarus. One of my buddies has a great nicely equipped garage that he lets me use to maintain my old German wheels.
On the flipside, a lot of us whites do get bamboozled by brands that cater to us, especially in the high-end outdoor clothing and equipment segment, like this $900 light jacket for example:
It doesn't have any expensive material like down feathers or fur, basically made of petroleum products and a zipper. It's probably great quality, but you can get the same quality for less than half the price from places like LL Bean.
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I like Carhartt shirts and jackets - I have an old Carhartt navy blue quilted lined duck barn jacket that is burn resistant to my cigars and has kept me warm even on our coldest winter days this year ... I have a couple olive green surplus tank helmet liners with Velcro flaps also lightweight but quite warm.
I live in Ecuador. While I was growing up it was prestigious to advertise your product as "American" or "Americano" in Spanish. Clothes, electrodomestics, insert the product. Now only old, dated stores make such advertisements and I feel nostalgia whenever I read those phrases, generally in bold, wine-red or midnight blue against awhite surface
My dad bought an air conditioner, U.S. made, in the 80s and it still worked until it's deinstallation about 2 or 3 years ago. It was General Electric. The losses don´t limit themselves to manufacturing, but as Roosh has pointed throughout his articles, spiritually. ç
It pains me to see the spiritual state of the U.S. in a way because China is leading all types of processes with its pragmatic destructive nonchalancy towards the world and the U.S. seems like a petric dish for true oppression. To illustrate: last year I was blessed to get to see the swamp in Slidell, Louisiana and in the same trip I asked the Uber driver whether he had seen the swamp (which was magical, a White mangrove of wonders) and he, at 46 born & raised in New Orleans, had never seen it. I sincerely hope there is a large Revival in place for us as a continent.
My dad bought an air conditioner, U.S. made, in the 80s and it still worked until it's deinstallation about 2 or 3 years ago. It was General Electric. The losses don´t limit themselves to manufacturing, but as Roosh has pointed throughout his articles, spiritually. ç
It pains me to see the spiritual state of the U.S. in a way because China is leading all types of processes with its pragmatic destructive nonchalancy towards the world and the U.S. seems like a petric dish for true oppression. To illustrate: last year I was blessed to get to see the swamp in Slidell, Louisiana and in the same trip I asked the Uber driver whether he had seen the swamp (which was magical, a White mangrove of wonders) and he, at 46 born & raised in New Orleans, had never seen it. I sincerely hope there is a large Revival in place for us as a continent.
Grow Bag
Woodpecker
I bought a Carhartt shirt when I was in Green Point, Brooklyn. Now that was some shirt. It was a bit big for me, so gave it to my brother, but it'll last years and years.
Aw man, I've been ranting about this for so many years.
Shoes are my biggest pet peeve. I have what's called a "flexible flat foot," which is bad enough on its own, but is also coupled with some odd proportions (tiny heels, long/wide/splayed forefoot). Long story short, it's exceedingly rare to find shoes that fit me well (or even marginally). Even "custom shoe-makers" in the relatively affordable range typically make their products using standard-sized lasts and components.
With how quickly styles change, I've learned that whenever I find a shoe that fits, I have to buy several pairs all at once - or it's entirely possible to wear holes in them and then go for a year or more without ANY shoes that fit decently, until I stumble on another limited-run of something that by whatever stroke of dumb luck happens to work for me. There have even been times when I've been able to reorder the "same" shoe... but the manufacturer "updated" the footbed/sole design and it's totally different and wrong.
So I'm pretty TRIGGERED by how quickly shoes wear down and fall apart. Most of them are not designed to be re-soled, either. Even if the shape of the sole is conducive, most soles are molded with hollow chambers inside. Even if you catch the wear and manage to get a new layer of soling on there before the bottom rips open, those internal "walls" will continue to deform and break down over time. Eventually you can end up with little chunks that break off and roll around inside the cavity with every step.
I've ripped a lot of shoes apart in the last few years, in the process of learning how to make my own, and it was pretty shocking initially to discover that even the "high quality" "durable" "leather" boots you can buy in the $100-300 range are basically all made of of "pressed garbage" on the inside, with a thin veneer of quality materials on the exterior. Cardboard, foam, unidentifiable composites, etc. It's a freaking scam.
Shoes are my biggest pet peeve. I have what's called a "flexible flat foot," which is bad enough on its own, but is also coupled with some odd proportions (tiny heels, long/wide/splayed forefoot). Long story short, it's exceedingly rare to find shoes that fit me well (or even marginally). Even "custom shoe-makers" in the relatively affordable range typically make their products using standard-sized lasts and components.
With how quickly styles change, I've learned that whenever I find a shoe that fits, I have to buy several pairs all at once - or it's entirely possible to wear holes in them and then go for a year or more without ANY shoes that fit decently, until I stumble on another limited-run of something that by whatever stroke of dumb luck happens to work for me. There have even been times when I've been able to reorder the "same" shoe... but the manufacturer "updated" the footbed/sole design and it's totally different and wrong.
So I'm pretty TRIGGERED by how quickly shoes wear down and fall apart. Most of them are not designed to be re-soled, either. Even if the shape of the sole is conducive, most soles are molded with hollow chambers inside. Even if you catch the wear and manage to get a new layer of soling on there before the bottom rips open, those internal "walls" will continue to deform and break down over time. Eventually you can end up with little chunks that break off and roll around inside the cavity with every step.
I've ripped a lot of shoes apart in the last few years, in the process of learning how to make my own, and it was pretty shocking initially to discover that even the "high quality" "durable" "leather" boots you can buy in the $100-300 range are basically all made of of "pressed garbage" on the inside, with a thin veneer of quality materials on the exterior. Cardboard, foam, unidentifiable composites, etc. It's a freaking scam.
Grow Bag
Woodpecker
I deleted my Amazon account last year. I still use it to look for the reviews of items, but I then look for that item on ebay, where at least the everyday Joe can make a living. I'd prefer it if small businesses and people auctioning their wares had a online marketplace other than Ebay and their Paypal buddies.
wayfaringstranger
Kingfisher
Even that is getting corrupted and the recommendations that used to go with a product, not to mention the search function. I did find, much to my surprise though, that often the cheaper price was outside amazon or at least the same.
kel
Ostrich
I'm against lockdown, obviously, but I was thinking that it could actually be strategically wise if the lockdown could be modified (somehow, by people with some influence playing 7d chess or whatever) so that a big brick and mortar retailer like Walmart could not operate. Walmart isn't exactly on the same level as Bezos for political influence, but still they're influential and rich and if you want the lockdowns to end having some money behind that really helps. Get rich businesses to start feeling the pain.
MKE-Ed
Robin
I, too, have noticed how the quality of many of today’s products has really gone down. I use to wear Levi’s and Lee jeans years ago when they were sized correctly. About ten years back, that started to change when their sizes were incorrect and were way oversized due to their poor cuts and manufacturing. This was confirmed to me by people that I knew that worked in retail clothing that told me that the reason this was the case was due to more jeans being made overseas that had poor quality standards. I then switched to LL Bean jeans and they so far have been sized correctly and pretty good, despite being made in Mexico. I use to buy my dress shirts from Brook Brothers and they use to last up to seven years, which is pretty good for a dress shirt. That also has now changed over the past few years. Their shirts are not as good as they use to be.
I remember reading an article back in the early 1990s in Stereo Review magazine that talked about the quality differences of consumer grade stereo equipment that was sold in the United States compared to Europe. They claimed that stereo components sold in the US were far inferior compared to what was being sold in Europe. They claimed this was due to Americans primarily being concerned more about price and Europeans being more concerned about quality. This is the direction things have been going.
I remember reading an article back in the early 1990s in Stereo Review magazine that talked about the quality differences of consumer grade stereo equipment that was sold in the United States compared to Europe. They claimed that stereo components sold in the US were far inferior compared to what was being sold in Europe. They claimed this was due to Americans primarily being concerned more about price and Europeans being more concerned about quality. This is the direction things have been going.
Feyoder
Kingfisher
Well said. I agree. It was that gen that sold out everything though so what do you expect?
I had this discussion with friends over 20 years ago in regards to automobiles. The logical conclusion then, as it is now, is that automobiles used to be marketed to men, but now are marketed towards women. There is a saying, "A woman will buy something she doesn't need at half price, while a man will pay twice the price for something he needs." How this applies, is that a typical woman will buy a "cheap", inferior quality, new car. A typical man pays a premium for a more quality vehicle. Look around and see what people are driving. I see men driving trucks, mostly, and women driving compact cars. Most full size trucks are very tough and durable, and although most men aren't hauling loads or trailers, they buy the truck because of the inherent quality of a bigger vehicle.
I noticed in the 1990s that the Suzuki sidekicks, Jeep libertys, VW bugs, RAV4, were driven almost exclusively by women. Each one was a shiny new vehicle when new, but in a year was basically junk. I changed a clutch on a sidekick. The thickness of the flywheel was not much thicker than aluminum foil.
If I assume correctly, the inferior products that we are offered, is due to marketing towards women. The fault lies in feminism, falsely giving authority to women. A man who makes decisions for his family is going to buy the best value, not the cheapest price. Manufacturers almost entirely market towards women, since they have found that selling you an inferior product every three years is more profitable than selling you a quality product every 20 years.
As a side note, I dated a woman once who disparaged my new Camaro. I asked her why, and she said that she had bought a brand new Chevy Sprint in the 80s and it ended up junk, the radio stopped working within the first month, and it continually required repairs. I asked why she bought it and she said because it was only $5000, while new mid size to full size cars cost more than twice that much.
I have a 1967 Chevelle that I love. I have done major work to it, but the quality in manufacturing was near the epitome, and the design was incredibly simple. Last year I put in a 4 speed Muncie, getting rid of the automatic. I did it all myself. If I had a 2000+ vehicle, it would be impossible or impractical. The car brand new was about $2800. Today I could sell it for around $50,000. There is no vehicle manufactured today that won't be crushed in 15-20 years.
I noticed in the 1990s that the Suzuki sidekicks, Jeep libertys, VW bugs, RAV4, were driven almost exclusively by women. Each one was a shiny new vehicle when new, but in a year was basically junk. I changed a clutch on a sidekick. The thickness of the flywheel was not much thicker than aluminum foil.
If I assume correctly, the inferior products that we are offered, is due to marketing towards women. The fault lies in feminism, falsely giving authority to women. A man who makes decisions for his family is going to buy the best value, not the cheapest price. Manufacturers almost entirely market towards women, since they have found that selling you an inferior product every three years is more profitable than selling you a quality product every 20 years.
As a side note, I dated a woman once who disparaged my new Camaro. I asked her why, and she said that she had bought a brand new Chevy Sprint in the 80s and it ended up junk, the radio stopped working within the first month, and it continually required repairs. I asked why she bought it and she said because it was only $5000, while new mid size to full size cars cost more than twice that much.
I have a 1967 Chevelle that I love. I have done major work to it, but the quality in manufacturing was near the epitome, and the design was incredibly simple. Last year I put in a 4 speed Muncie, getting rid of the automatic. I did it all myself. If I had a 2000+ vehicle, it would be impossible or impractical. The car brand new was about $2800. Today I could sell it for around $50,000. There is no vehicle manufactured today that won't be crushed in 15-20 years.
I don't think there's some nefarious master plan here -- it's just good old fashioned greed. Most consumers just want to pay as little as possible. To compete, manufacturers cut corners and use inferior materials. No wonder it all breaks. That's even the case with more expensive items like home appliances (washing machines, dishwashers, etc). It used to be you'd get them repaired when they broke, but now the labor and parts cost make that not worth it given how cheap new ones are -- just toss it and buy a new one.
But... you can always find quality if you are willing to pay for it, and if you do your research. Many manufacturers have multiple product lines, with the cheap edition made abroad and destined for sale to big box store customers, then a higher-end line that's more likely made in the US or Europe, and with better craftmanship and materials. You can even find jeans made in the USA if you're willing to pay for it.
But... you can always find quality if you are willing to pay for it, and if you do your research. Many manufacturers have multiple product lines, with the cheap edition made abroad and destined for sale to big box store customers, then a higher-end line that's more likely made in the US or Europe, and with better craftmanship and materials. You can even find jeans made in the USA if you're willing to pay for it.
So, so, so true. My big gripe is the horrible degradation of fabrics. I was looking for a nice warm flannel gown for my mom. Hundreds of reviews at LL Bean or Land's End said something like: I bought this same gown a few years ago, loved it, wanted to get another color. Well, the fabric pilled after one wash, started thinning, nowhere near the quality of the old one. Of course, it's not cheaper - it's the SAME PRICE or more. You'll find similar reviews on clothing sites all over the internet, tons and tons and tons of them. They sell us dollar store quality products and charge department store prices, all to keep driving more and more profit, squeezing more and more out of us. It's absolutely sickening and clearly the devil's work.