Another Day in Paris: Notre Dame is Burning

Easy_C

Peacock
Found a pic of the new spire:

image.webp
 

Deusleveult

Woodpecker
Trad Catholic
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Here is a brilliant article by the Croatian conservative columnist Marcel Holjevac - I ran it through Google Translate which did a pathetic job, but I manually trimmed, corrected and beautified some parts:

Marcel Holjevac said:
Is it necessary for the cathedral to burn down for us to notice that Christianity is in the foundations of our world?

There are many French - and not just those - only when Notre Dame cathedral burns has become aware of its meaning, even superficially. Made into a dumbed-down tourist attraction, neglected, even decayed long before this fire, it was actually condemned to slow death. Without enough money for repairs, the almost 900 years old state-owned building was doomed. The fire only accelerated what happened slowly and imperceptibly, and turned the world's attention to one of the magnificent Gothic cathedrals from the 12th century from the times when people made incredible efforts to celebrate God, and when these efforts have resulted in incredible achievements, and the Gothic cathedral is hardly more magnificient.

And it is not (only) the "cultural heritage of mankind," a dead monument of the past, but a living Church in which they continued to sing choirs, masses were maintained. It was not built to be a monument of culture, but a place of prayer; it was not built to be visited by tourists, but by Christians; her door was always open to all, but she was always Christian.

Christianity had burned down in France long before the cathedral

Eiffel Tower, they say, symbolizes Paris, but Notre-Dame symbolizes France. However, what no one states is that France of Notre Dame is not some random France without roots; it is Christian France, a proud and once incredibly powerful state that has given so much to civilization, which enriched our world with so much that it does not make sense to list it. In the fields of culture, science and art, France had little competition until the rise of the new world, the former colonies, new world rulers and its consequent transformation of the old world country into a glorified tourist resort for Arabs and Africans. And today France is ashamed of its magnificent past, while its past is proud of those who have no such things!

"Notre Dame is our history, our literature, part of our psyche, the site of our great events, epidemics, wars, our liberation, the epicenter of our lives," Macron said. That's new. Until now, however, we were only able to hear that European history, literature, psyche, culture and lives had nothing to do with Christianity. So at least it is written even in the EU Constitution (out of all places). After the long debates about the Union's fundamental document, the Christian roots of the continent did not manage to enter it.

Our Europe is secular, although many scholars of secularism do not even know what that word means. A secular state would have to treat atheism and every religion equally; in practice, the secular state is mostly atheistic. Believers are often mocked and humiliated and the media propaganda is systematically against them. We often hear every day that we would have already colonized Mars and discovered a cure for cancer were it not for church and religion, without questioning why it was not done by the Chinese who for five thousand years were mostly atheists, or even our local Roma people. And then, when such a fire happens, all of them are full of understanding, then the Christian cultural heritage is at the same time worldwide, then all cry crocodile tears for the cathedral.

Return of regressive ideologies of the nineteenth century

And many people do not know that our time is not the first such time. It is little known that the 19th century was extremely anti-religious, more than ours, and that the character of the French Revolution was primarily anti-Christian. It was expected that the liberation of man from "the bond of religion" would lead to total progress, but that did not happen. There was barbarism, so the Church of Notre Dame was then killed - not by fire or by the savages, but by the citizens of France, who started the revolution with the idea of ​​robbery of the ecclesiastical, then immense wealth.

As we know, "secular" France, established after the revolution, has abundantly violated all human and civil rights, as well as all the principles it has declared itself, giving humanity the word "terror". Immediately after the Revolution, all ecclesiastical property was confiscated, followed by the destruction of the crosses, statues, bells and every Christian iconography, and the establishment of "revolutionary and civic" cults such as the "Gold of Reason" and the "Gold of the Supreme Being" imagined to replace Christian culture and tradition. Of course, there wasn't even a trace of reason in there.

Under the threat of death or imprisonment, about twenty thousand priests agreed to abdicate and abandon Christianity, handing it in writing under compulsion. Six thousand have agreed, or been forced, to marry. Some kept on performing their priestly duties in secret. By the end of the last decade of the nineteenth century, some thirty thousand priests were forced to leave France and those who refused were executed. Until Easter in 1794, only a few of forty thousand churches in France remained open; others are closed, sold, destroyed, or overwhelmed.

Revolutionary terror

Terror took between 20,000 and 40,000 lives, and among those killed, it is estimated that eight per cent of the aristocracy members, six percent were priests, 14 percent of the middle class (bourgeoisie), and the other around 70 percent workers and peasants. Of all these social groups, the Catholic clergy suffered the most severe losses. The attitude of most historians is that the campaign of de-Christianization was primarily motivated by the plundering of church gold and property, but also by exploiting the low passions in the nation by new populist rulers.

At the Notre-Dame Cathedral, at the front, there are still traces of that past "activism", which would probably be called "anti-fascist" today. The tower that crashed during the fire was not the original tower from the 13th century. The one that collapsed last week is actually from 19th when the cathedral was restored following the damage suffered under Reign of Terror. Christianity, after the revolution did not result in the expected outcome, returned in a grand fashion, and the cathedral was restored. Likewise, as well as after communism in Eastern Europe: All promises of prosperity without the church and the clergy not only proved to be false, but showed that without our Christian foundations, our society can not function, at least in a humane way.

Immediately before the fire in Notre Dame, the media, indeed very shyly, began to write about the phenomenon of frequent vandalism of Catholic churches in France, mostly by frustrated feminists or various anti-something pushed by aggressive mainstream media. So we got double standards; while placing bacon on the mosque door, perhaps a shameless but still a joke that did not really harm anyone, resulted in a long-term prison sentence that had not ended a year or so after the perpetrator was murdered by an Islamist who long dominate, thousands of church vandalisms and burnings fly under the radar. Whether by Antifa or ISIL, there is, however, every week at least one church destroyed in France.

Churches do not have to burn to fall

To make it worse, more and more churches in France every year were set for demolition. Some of them are valuable, but there is no money for maintenance: the secular state has too many priorities, such as the integration of illegal immigrants. According to the French Senate's report, 2,800 churches across the country, many of them old for centuries, will be demolished because the cost of reconstruction will exceed the budget.

Since the number of Frenchs in France continues to decline due to record low birth rates, high emigration and Muslim immigration, the number of Catholics is declining, which is now historically the lowest. For many cities in France, especially cities where minorities are Christians, lack of interest and high ground prices where churches simply do not justify the cost of restoring churches. Many mayors chose a cheaper downturn over expensive restorations. Thousands of churches will be demolished over the next few years and will be replaced by shopping malls, shops, flats or such a defective parking lot. On the other hand, mosques are everywhere. The Great Mosque in Paris has recently received a modern, fully-movable roof, as is usually found only in football stadiums.

In addition, Catholic churches in France are often victims of firefighting, vandalism, scribbling statues and destroying the Eucharist. The attacks have been frequent since the beginning of the year. Church of St. Sulpice in Paris, where Da Vinci's movie was shot, was set ablaze in March. Firefighters and police said the fire was definitely arson, and that's just one in a row.

Is there any kind of revolutionary time coming back with today's aggressive secularism? Does it seek to remove Catholics from all public spaces, whether it is banning any public expression of any beliefs or any cultural identity, identity that is not related to sexuality? Do people who are currently reviving the methods and ideas of the 19th century really believe that they are so advanced and modern? And should we ever have a cathedral in the 21st century, when it is for most people only a part of our heritage, but not part of our lives?

Absence of appreciation for own cultural heritage

Young anti-fascist tweeters are disgruntled that money is being collected for a "building" while in Africa there are hungry and those who have no access to water or that the "overflowing" Catholic church asks for help from the state to maintain the cathedral, not knowing that this cathedral, like the rest of France, has long since been seized by the government that does not care about maintaining it, only pillaging it. They are shocked by the fact that somehow someone might suspect that a fire might be an act of arson, although only four days before that, three young Muslims were convicted of planning to burn a large amount of gasoline to Notre Dame. The media condemn "conspiracy theories" that a fire might actually be an arson, while at the same time seeing nothing wrong in the authorities knowing that it was not even before any investigation. As soon as the cathedral was burned, it was reported that the fire broke out accidentally, which was extremely inexcusable. Simply, this can not be reliably known at this time.

And there is obviously hostility to our own cultural and religious heritage, the same one that has enabled us to be where we are - far ahead of Africa, Asia and other parts of the world, from where immigrants flourish to Europe. This is a matter of perverted and unreasonable ways of thinking, which is emphasized by today's education, which is more appreciative of the cheap and keen sentimentality of ethics, the sophism of the argument.

The fact is that the symbols of old, Christian Europe are becoming less visible, while symbols of new ones, such as gay pride, burqa, and people with strange hair colors and tattoos or extreme excess pounds become more and more visible. What does it mean today to be a Europeans, except to have an EU country certificate? In a cultural sense? And should we ever have a cathedral, if most of its people can see only "a building" or "a pile of stones"?

Death of Cathedrals by Marcel Proust

It should be, but as a living cathedral, as a gathering place for Christians, not as a tourist attraction. The best answer to all the above questions, however, gave Marcel Proust in the essay "The Death of the Cathedral and the Rites for which it Was Built": It was published on August 16, 1904 in the Le Figaro magazine.

At that time, a great debate took place in the French political circles, as the atheists throughout the parliament chose to unilaterally abolish the Napoleonic Concordat and the complete secularization of the French Republic (which would become the 1905 Law of Separation of the Church and State, known as Briand's Law). Proust correctly concluded, and this can be seen today, more than a hundred years later, that Briand's law will ultimately lead to the very thing that led to the destruction of the cathedral, the church, and the attacks of the savage and progressive barbarians on them - and the decline of the spirit nations

Proust, a homosexual and agnostic, but who never denied or ceased to be proud of his Catholic roots and upbringing, could not remain silent. How much time has changed since then, and what agnostic would say that today, let alone a homosexual!

Today, it is impossible to deny that Proust was absolutely right.

https://narod.hr/hrvatska/marcel-ho...OdoDBMOyW72eElFI2BlUIfZl9MXg-FtR30WOQRwmOXCWI


Thanks for the translation Handsome Creepy Eel, great work.

It's a good analysis by this Croatian guy and it's nice to be able to read it.

I've traveled through Croatia and was pleasantly surprised to see that they are really devout catholics. Every masses that I attended was full, with lots of young people, even on week days. They are also really red pill.
So that doesn't surprise me that such an analysis comes from a croatian guy.

It's sad that I didn't hear or read anything of that substance from a french person...
 

debeguiled

Peacock
Gold Member
Just to show I am not a complete concretophobe, one of the most beautiful churches I have ever been in is the The First Church of Christ, Scientist in Berkeley, of all places, designed in 1910 by Bernard Maybeck, and it integrates exposed concrete into it exterior in a sophisticated way.

Still, it isn't as beautiful as the Wisteria and the wood that it complements.

First-Church-Christ-Scientist-Berkeley-Designed-by-Bernard-Maybeck-1910.-A-National-Landmark.-By-Melinda-Stuart-e1524774415421.jpg


1Christ_Scientist.portal.jpg


1christ_scientist_sanc.post.jpg


1christ_scientist_ceiling.jpg


1christ_scientist.school.s.jpg



If anyone is interested in architecture from the Arts and Crafts school, check out Bernard Maybeck, he is a home town hero around the San Francisco Bay that everyone should know about.
 

kosko

Peacock
Gold Member
debeguiled said:
Vladimir Poontang said:

Thank you for posting this!

Jones puts on a clinic, tying architecture to logos or irrationality, and gives definitions of styles from the Greek to the Roman to Medieval, Gothic, Brutalist etc..

He shows how the destruction of culture leads directly to inferior architecture.

I also like how he refers to the the reductionist rationality of the Enlightenment, that removes the sacred from sense.

He tears the shit out of Gropius and those modern architects who inflict their glass and concrete boxes on every continent without taking into account local weather and terrain, leading to energy wasted in cold climates and oven like conditions closer to the Equator.

He has special disdain for the Starchitects like Gehry and Pei, dismissing their work thoroughly.


Bjarke Ingels is bad for this. He dumps the same glass boxes on each continent with little regard to local climate and workings.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
DBG - Maybeck is definitely one of the greatest American architects ever. Julia Morgan was his pupil, she also studied at the Beaux Arts in Paris. Morgan designed the Hearst Castle:

[img=650x411]https://www.travelcaffeine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/hearst-castle-california-019.jpg[/img]

Nomad - that church in Reykjavik reminds me of the Grundtvig church in Copenhagen, very austere in that northern Protestant ethos, but pretty neat nevertheless, halfway between modernity and classic lines:

14091421935_c0a5fb55e2.jpg


[img=650x411]https://s3.amazonaws.com/gs-waymarking-images/4e387418-610f-4152-80e4-080afd62a040.jpg[/img]

[img=750x501]http://readcereal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/holder1.jpg[/img]
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
Deusleveult said:
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Here is a brilliant article by the Croatian conservative columnist Marcel Holjevac - I ran it through Google Translate which did a pathetic job, but I manually trimmed, corrected and beautified some parts:

Marcel Holjevac said:
Is it necessary for the cathedral to burn down for us to notice that Christianity is in the foundations of our world?

There are many French - and not just those - only when Notre Dame cathedral burns has become aware of its meaning, even superficially. Made into a dumbed-down tourist attraction, neglected, even decayed long before this fire, it was actually condemned to slow death. Without enough money for repairs, the almost 900 years old state-owned building was doomed. The fire only accelerated what happened slowly and imperceptibly, and turned the world's attention to one of the magnificent Gothic cathedrals from the 12th century from the times when people made incredible efforts to celebrate God, and when these efforts have resulted in incredible achievements, and the Gothic cathedral is hardly more magnificient.

...

Today, it is impossible to deny that Proust was absolutely right.

https://narod.hr/hrvatska/marcel-ho...OdoDBMOyW72eElFI2BlUIfZl9MXg-FtR30WOQRwmOXCWI


Thanks for the translation Handsome Creepy Eel, great work.

It's a good analysis by this Croatian guy and it's nice to be able to read it.

I've traveled through Croatia and was pleasantly surprised to see that they are really devout catholics. Every masses that I attended was full, with lots of young people, even on week days. They are also really red pill.
So that doesn't surprise me that such an analysis comes from a croatian guy.

It's sad that I didn't hear or read anything of that substance from a french person...

It sounds a lot like something Philippe Ploncard d'Assac (leader of the Cercles Nationalistes Français) would say, are you familiar with him?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLDRl9dB6Q_7ta0U2TpcCUg

Also Pierre Hillard, Lucien Cerise, Marion Sigaut, I presume you are familiar with their great work?
 

Deusleveult

Woodpecker
Trad Catholic
911 said:
Deusleveult said:
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Here is a brilliant article by the Croatian conservative columnist Marcel Holjevac - I ran it through Google Translate which did a pathetic job, but I manually trimmed, corrected and beautified some parts:

Marcel Holjevac said:
Is it necessary for the cathedral to burn down for us to notice that Christianity is in the foundations of our world?

There are many French - and not just those - only when Notre Dame cathedral burns has become aware of its meaning, even superficially. Made into a dumbed-down tourist attraction, neglected, even decayed long before this fire, it was actually condemned to slow death. Without enough money for repairs, the almost 900 years old state-owned building was doomed. The fire only accelerated what happened slowly and imperceptibly, and turned the world's attention to one of the magnificent Gothic cathedrals from the 12th century from the times when people made incredible efforts to celebrate God, and when these efforts have resulted in incredible achievements, and the Gothic cathedral is hardly more magnificient.

...

Today, it is impossible to deny that Proust was absolutely right.

https://narod.hr/hrvatska/marcel-ho...OdoDBMOyW72eElFI2BlUIfZl9MXg-FtR30WOQRwmOXCWI


Thanks for the translation Handsome Creepy Eel, great work.

It's a good analysis by this Croatian guy and it's nice to be able to read it.

I've traveled through Croatia and was pleasantly surprised to see that they are really devout catholics. Every masses that I attended was full, with lots of young people, even on week days. They are also really red pill.
So that doesn't surprise me that such an analysis comes from a croatian guy.

It's sad that I didn't hear or read anything of that substance from a french person...

It sounds a lot like something Philippe Ploncard d'Assac (leader of the Cercles Nationalistes Français) would say, are you familiar with him?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLDRl9dB6Q_7ta0U2TpcCUg

Also Pierre Hillard, Lucien Cerise, Marion Sigaut, I presume you are familiar with their great work?


I am familiar with Pierre Hillard and Marion Sigaut but not the others two.
I will look them up, thanks!


Also I don't understand how you guys see beauty in those concrete churches. The exteriors are fucking ugly!

Compared to these:

plus-belle-cathedrale-de-france-cathedrale-saint-pierre-beauvais_5805177.jpg


amiens-la-facade-sculptee-1_940x705.jpg


Cathédrale%2BSaint-Patrick%2Bde%2BNew%2BYork.jpg
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
911 said:
Deusleveult said:
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Here is a brilliant article by the Croatian conservative columnist Marcel Holjevac - I ran it through Google Translate which did a pathetic job, but I manually trimmed, corrected and beautified some parts:

Marcel Holjevac said:
Is it necessary for the cathedral to burn down for us to notice that Christianity is in the foundations of our world?

There are many French - and not just those - only when Notre Dame cathedral burns has become aware of its meaning, even superficially. Made into a dumbed-down tourist attraction, neglected, even decayed long before this fire, it was actually condemned to slow death. Without enough money for repairs, the almost 900 years old state-owned building was doomed. The fire only accelerated what happened slowly and imperceptibly, and turned the world's attention to one of the magnificent Gothic cathedrals from the 12th century from the times when people made incredible efforts to celebrate God, and when these efforts have resulted in incredible achievements, and the Gothic cathedral is hardly more magnificient.

...

Today, it is impossible to deny that Proust was absolutely right.

https://narod.hr/hrvatska/marcel-ho...OdoDBMOyW72eElFI2BlUIfZl9MXg-FtR30WOQRwmOXCWI


Thanks for the translation Handsome Creepy Eel, great work.

It's a good analysis by this Croatian guy and it's nice to be able to read it.

I've traveled through Croatia and was pleasantly surprised to see that they are really devout catholics. Every masses that I attended was full, with lots of young people, even on week days. They are also really red pill.
So that doesn't surprise me that such an analysis comes from a croatian guy.

It's sad that I didn't hear or read anything of that substance from a french person...

It sounds a lot like something Philippe Ploncard d'Assac (leader of the Cercles Nationalistes Français) would say, are you familiar with him?

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLDRl9dB6Q_7ta0U2TpcCUg

Also Pierre Hillard, Lucien Cerise, Marion Sigaut, I presume you are familiar with their great work?

Sorry, I've never heard of them... and sadly I don't speak French so I can't follow them. I only know how to say "Un whiskey, s'il vous plait" :laugh:
 

Disco_Volante

 
Banned
Don't fire investigations take a long time? When this news broke while it was still burning, they were already labeling it an "accidental fire". Would think the contractor would want to defend their reputation and have a thorough investigation, not to mention their insurance company. Makes me think it was arson, and the gov will just pay the contractor to shut up.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
Daily Mail said:
A 'computer glitch' may have been behind the fast-spreading fire that ravaged Notre Dame, the cathedral's rector said on Friday.
...
The Parisien newspaper has reported that investigators are considering whether the fire could be linked to a computer glitch or related to temporary elevators used in the renovation that was underway at the time the cathedral caught fire.
...
Bishop Patrick Chauvet did not elaborate on the nature of the cause but said 'we may find out what happened in two or three months.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...JHBZZm103jaVKNVDUxlJa6AnNFHLxcx8y5xolikoSmHSA

So do they already know that it was a computer glitch (since when do elevators spontaneously catch fire because of computer glitches?), or will we find out what happened in 2-3 months? Which is it?
 

NoMoreTO

Hummingbird
Catholic
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Daily Mail said:
A 'computer glitch' may have been behind the fast-spreading fire that ravaged Notre Dame, the cathedral's rector said on Friday.
...
The Parisien newspaper has reported that investigators are considering whether the fire could be linked to a computer glitch or related to temporary elevators used in the renovation that was underway at the time the cathedral caught fire.
...
Bishop Patrick Chauvet did not elaborate on the nature of the cause but said 'we may find out what happened in two or three months.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...JHBZZm103jaVKNVDUxlJa6AnNFHLxcx8y5xolikoSmHSA

So do they already know that it was a computer glitch (since when do elevators spontaneously catch fire because of computer glitches?), or will we find out what happened in 2-3 months? Which is it?

I work in IT systems. If someone says glitch, it means they don't know what the fuck happened. No proof or details on the source of the issue, so they describe it as a glitch - something random. Random things don't happen in computer systems, they operate on 0s and 1s.

Secondly, how can you give a timeframe for something that is so undefined? If its a system issue, someone could figure it out within days, or months, depending on how the analysis goes. This is a shit show.

Computer Fucking Glitch. Give me a break
 

Syberpunk

Pelican
Gold Member
NoMoreTO said:
Handsome Creepy Eel said:
Daily Mail said:
A 'computer glitch' may have been behind the fast-spreading fire that ravaged Notre Dame, the cathedral's rector said on Friday.
...
The Parisien newspaper has reported that investigators are considering whether the fire could be linked to a computer glitch or related to temporary elevators used in the renovation that was underway at the time the cathedral caught fire.
...
Bishop Patrick Chauvet did not elaborate on the nature of the cause but said 'we may find out what happened in two or three months.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...JHBZZm103jaVKNVDUxlJa6AnNFHLxcx8y5xolikoSmHSA

So do they already know that it was a computer glitch (since when do elevators spontaneously catch fire because of computer glitches?), or will we find out what happened in 2-3 months? Which is it?

I work in IT systems. If someone says glitch, it means they don't know what the fuck happened. No proof or details on the source of the issue, so they describe it as a glitch - something random. Random things don't happen in computer systems, they operate on 0s and 1s.

Secondly, how can you give a timeframe for something that is so undefined? If its a system issue, someone could figure it out within days, or months, depending on how the analysis goes. This is a shit show.

Computer Fucking Glitch. Give me a break

How do computer glitches produce heat to create analog sparks?

This would be like my PS4 bluescreening and my toaster springing because of it
 

Bazzwaldo

Woodpecker
Syberpunk said:
How do computer glitches produce heat to create analog sparks?

This would be like my PS4 bluescreening and my toaster springing because of it

The only thing I can think of would be infecting their computer network with a zero day virus like Stuxnet
This virus managed to speed up centrifuges remotely and cooked them
Wouldn't it be possible to write code to ultimately cause fire?
Perhaps this is what the Bishop was speculating?
 

Leonard D Neubache

Owl
Gold Member
A computer glitch can have real world ramifications depending on what the computer actually controls.

For example if the computer thinks the elevator is on the ground floor rather than the top floor and continues attempting to raise it to the top floor even though it's already there then the engine could overheat and catch fire. There are supposed to be safeguards against this sort of stuff but it's not impossible for it to fuck up completely.

Still, the choice of language is bizarre. "Computer glitch"? Why not just say "we're looking at a fault in the elevator"? These days "computer glitch" is the simpleton's wave of the hand that say "this is nobody's fault, not really, the computer just glitched!" To 90% of the population computers are functionally magical artifacts and when they behave in ways that are unintended it's seen as an inexplicable failure of that strange magic rather than a simple software or hardware error that's not only correctable but preventable.
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
There have been many cases of elevator engines catching fire, true, but what's true as well is that elevators are designed to transport people, so such systems must come equipped with a shitload of alarms and containment measures - otherwise people would be incinerated by elevator fires all the time.

https://www.wtva.com/content/news/E...n-Columbus-apartment-building--508705801.html
https://www.concordmonitor.com/Elevator-fire-at-NH-State-Library-Concord-24699528
https://www.newschannel5.com/news/crews-respond-to-downtown-elevator-fire
https://www.bendbulletin.com/localstate/4549610-151/fire-leads-to-evacuation-of-bend-business
https://www.abc15.com/news/region-s...rker-inside-smoky-elevator-car-at-fiesta-mall
 
Top