Antibody Tests

Ive been awaiting the availability of antibody tests with the hope that some of us would be immune and therefore we could visit elderly loved ones without fear of inadvertently killing them. Being able to stop using hand sanitizer and face masks would be good too.

Having a thread to post updates on antibody tests would, I think, benefit many of us who dont want to rummage through pages of virus news and opinions.

 

ball dont lie

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I'm friends with someone in this company in San Diego that is making a lot of Covid19 related tests.

Just like everything else related to covid, things are tricky and the antibody tests are likely to not work very well, lots of user error, etc.

http://cantorbioconnect.com/about.html

My family manufactured the nation's top pregnancy test (First Response) for 20 years. Most of the COVID-19 rapid tests are built exactly the same (some even pirated the same plastic cassette as pregnancy tests in an effort to get the tests to market as soon as possible) and use very similar biologics.
The advantage of a rapid test is convenience and speed, but they are not near as accurate as a lab test.
In fact, this week we observed a little-known but dangerous weakness in antibody tests. The phenomenon is known as a high-dose hook effect, and it can occur when the concentration of the analyte being measured is too high, and swamps the test, actually causing the test mechanism to work backwards and creating a false negative result.
A plastic surgeon is using rapid tests to test his patients before surgery and asked us for a positive control. We sent him one of the highest IgG's I've ever seen, but I was shocked when he complained it was only a very faint positive. He then tried to use triple the amount of serum on the test (a common way to boost a faint signal) but it actually made the result even more negative! We then suspected a hook effect and asked him to dilute the sample 5-fold and 10-fold. Bingo, it turned very strong positive! A weakness to be aware of, and a surgeon warned.
I'm a scientist and am very intrigued by these stories!
The NYTimes wrote about this company and others have written about the nytimes article.:laughter::laughter::laughter:

https://marginalrevolution.com/marg...30UpRE5eVP-LJXjIiKjvwak3yGje1pt1FIVhAuIO0pF7I

Blood Money
by Alex Tabarrok May 2, 2020 at 7:18 am in
NYTimes: Around the world, scientists are racing to develop and mass produce reliable antibody tests that public health experts say are a crucial element in ending the coronavirus lockdowns that are causing economic devastation. But that effort is being hamstrung, scientists say, by a shortage of the blood samples containing antibodies to Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus, that are needed to validate the tests.
Recognizing a rare opportunity, some companies are seeking to cash in on the shortages, soliciting blood donations and selling samples at rich markups in a practice that has been condemned by medical professionals as, at the very least, unethical.
“I’ve never seen these prices before,” said Dr. Joe Fitchett, the medical director of Mologic, one of the British test manufacturers that was offered the blood samples. “It’s money being made from people’s suffering.”
I am reminded of Walter Williams who asks his students whether it is wrong to profit from the misfortune of others:
But I caution them with some examples. An orthopedist profits from your misfortune of having broken your leg skiing. When there’s news of a pending ice storm, I doubt whether it saddens the hearts of those in the collision repair business. I also tell my students that I profit from their misfortune — their ignorance of economic theory.
A price is a signal wrapped up in an incentive so if you want a strong signal and a strong incentive you need to let prices rise. The prices in this case don’t even seem that high:
From March 31 to April 22, prices asked by Cantor BioConnect for its cheapest samples — always sold by the milliliter, the equivalent of less than a quarter of a teaspoon — rose more than 40 percent, to $500 from $350.
Bear in mind the costs of collecting the sample, including nurse time and PPE. Some samples which are especially rich in antibodies, do sell for prices that are well above cost which is not surprising as those samples are in high demand as they may offer a cure.
Do the firms willing and able to pay the highest prices necessarily have the best science? No, not necessarily, but on balance the decentralized allocation process offered by markets and civil society will likely be far more effective than centralized, political allocation. We also know from field experiments around the world that higher prices for blood increase supply, a key consideration.
As Hayek said the moral rules of the tribe which appear natural to us–like don’t profit from misery–cannot maintain a civilization so we struggle between what we think is right and what actually works to prevent misery.
There can be no doubt that our innate moral emotions and instincts were acquired in the hundreds of thousand years—probably half a million years—in which Homo sapiens lived in small hunting and gathering groups and developed a physiological constitution which governed his innate instincts. These instincts are still very strong in us. Yet civilization developed by our gradually learning cultural rules which were transmitted by teaching and which served largely to restrain and suppress some of those natural instincts.
 

LoveBug

Kingfisher
I’d love one. I’m looking forward to taking one and revisiting this post

In late December to mid January I had a “two and a half week cold”. Much longer than a typical cold. Low grade fever, cough, sore throat, and I believe a yellower tongue at the end. It didn’t appear flu either, as it was steady state without high grade fever or coming on strong.

Either:
my immune system is shot, dragging out a typical cold, which I don’t believe.

an unusual flu strain had hit

Or this was it and I can get on with my life
 
Just like everything else related to covid, things are tricky and the antibody tests are likely to not work very well, lots of user error, etc.
In this case, wouldnt it be the false positives that are more problematic?

EDIT: I reread the quote. Yes that is indeed problematic.
 
I’d love one. I’m looking forward to taking one and revisiting this post

In late December to mid January I had a “two and a half week cold”. Much longer than a typical cold. Low grade fever, cough, sore throat, and I believe a yellower tongue at the end. It didn’t appear flu either, as it was steady state without high grade fever or coming on strong.

Either:
my immune system is shot, dragging out a typical cold, which I don’t believe.

an unusual flu strain had hit

Or this was it and I can get on with my life
Id think, unless you had the full on tidal wave of symptoms, you have to assume you had something else. Even those with all the symptoms are only testing positive like 10-15% of the time.

You could have had back to back colds or something itis.

Lots of us are going to turn out to have already had it though, for sure.
 
I've posted elsewhere that I'm 99% sure I've had a mild version of this.

Question for the experts. Can you develop a Vaccine without a 100% reliable antibody test? Not that I'd ever get this herd-culling shot anyway.
 

ball dont lie

Kingfisher
Gold Member
My friend who owns the biotech company is posting stuff everyday on facebook about the reliability and issues with antibody tests.

They seem to only work for a short window some time after a person had covid.

  1. So the covid tests dont work very well and have high false positive rates.
  2. The antibody tests have issues where the serum must perfectly dosed or else they dont work.
  3. The antibody tests arent very reliable and the window of "good" reliability is short.

"Testing" seems to be some kind of voodoo magic. But my friend says there is a killing to be made if his tests get chosen as the standard ones and his family's company was responsible for other testing inventions for being pregnant, so he and his father arent fools.


antibody info.jpg
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Gold Member
Did he explain why are COVID-19 antibodies so hard to detect after a few weeks? From what I know, most antibodies remain detectable for life - HIV included.
 
I believe IgG levels peak at day 45 or so, and then decline and are likely almost undetectable by 1-2 years. Note that your memory cells will likely still be quite good at responding, it'll just take a little while to get going. Nasopharyngeal swab isn't ideal, and BAL is so invasive it's useless for any population test. I watched a recent webinar by a large university health system expert on this and left asking, "What added value is there, truly?" Like most things in medicine these days, it just sounds good or is academic information, and application or further action turns out to be limited.

Someone who gets selected as the main test kit, though, will make a mint, no doubt. Of course that's why ball don't lie is accurate in his report.

For critical services or surgeries, the reality is that you're going to do what you have to do if you truly have to do it. For elective type stuff, everyone can wait a bit longer, or at least until asymptomatic. The suggestion that this is dire has so many (un)intended consequences, helping no one.
 
You can test all you want, it doesn't mean jack squat. I'm going to remove this thread from itself and show you an outside perspective on what disease really is.

Most healthcare "professionals" have no idea of nanobiology or synthetic biology, and what they don't understand as that what is going on symptomatically in a person who is experiencing what they call an afflication, or viral disease, is basically this: their bodies have been shutting down on the cellular level due to buildup of fullerenes, fibers basically, which are memetic. They replicate and begin constructing inside the cells, and begins attaching itself to our proteins and DNA. Once on or in the body, they begin to assemble, it is a biological technology.

A memetic looks like bacterium, fungi, algae, mold, viruses, microbes, protozoa, etc. These are all synthetic. Because most of the people working in these fields do not know this, they are misinterpreting what they are looking at as some kind of biological or pathological agent, when it is in fact a synthetic pathological agent. This is exactly why the cases of chronic disease and mental illnesses have skyrocketed as the cellular technology grew, because the subsequent generation networks (3g and 4g) are activating these programs because it is written into these particles for expansion and networking, imagine what 5g will do to you? You won't see the whole strand moving but they are growing over a period of time.

The whole 'beast system' is basically this anti-organism coming alive, and it is getting to the point where people are willingly accepting their slavery, which is the whole part of this technological process. A controlled race under an artificial intelligence, as this man here puts it. He is wise beyond his years, and I would recommend start following similar methods in your life to get rid of the nano out of your body. It is in all of us. Pretty soon the fake test / false tests for "covid" won't matter because if everything becomes a hive-mind connected to a processor its all going to be controlled anyways, your brain will no longer be connected to God and you will no longer be able to connect to the source. You will be an automaton (as we have seen with all these people who are so adamant in following the nonsensical rules of psychopaths).

In short, no anti-body test will mean jack because it's not a "real" disease, but an assembly of nano fibers penetrating your cells that cause your body to react a certain way according to its programming (lungs and flu-like symptoms), same with thousands of other conditions.

I thought I had this covid crap back in january but after doing some of the methods by this man here, all symptoms vanished in a day.


Before the chiding comments come in, just take a step back and analyze this. Don't believe it, get a microscope and examine what is on your skin.
 
I won't bother asking for evidence, since I don't think anyone will be satisfied. More important is this question: Is your theory falsifiable?
 

bubs

Newbie
I believe that more money/effort should be put into fast and reliable antibody testing than vaccines. The faster we can collect data and information on people that have had the virus and The after effects (contagious or not) the quicker a larger segment of our population can go back to business as usual and reduce the vaccine requires to only the at risk population vs “everyone”. This is still speculative until we have more data. And of course assuming the powers that be will reveal the true findings. I won’t go into the tin foil hat discussion, I’ll save that for other forum topics. Just trying to stick to antibody comments for now.
 
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