Any of you guys MMA fans?

Banna

 
Banned
Looking in retrospect.....I'm no Conor fan at all but I have to admit he has a lot of balls. He went overboard and below the belt with Khabib and certainly deserved what he got in the cage and the backlash.

With his limited skill set and the amount of killers at LW it was only a matter of time before he got abused like this.

But some other greats....they were conservative and content not to do such a thing when it was demanded by many.

Look at the reluctance for years from GSP to move up to MW to possibly fight Silva. He saw a weak champ in Bisping he cherry picked. If Romero/whittaker who Bisping ducked to fight grandpa Hendo was champ he'd have never fought either of those killers.

Then Silva.....he wanted no part of going up to fight Jon Jones.

Then Jon Jones only when DC gets the belt now he opens his mouth about moving up to HW. Not when Cain, JDS or Werdum had the belt.

And both jones/Silva have failed drug tests and their legacies are tainted. Oh and look at the reluctance of Mighty mouse to fight TJ as well in that weak division they created for him.....im glad he lost his belt.

Conor on the other hand? He hadnt even fought Jose Aldo yet who at the time was almost invincible and had the audacity to disrespect the ENTIRE LW division and talk of wiping the floor with it. GSP, Silva and Jones wanted no part of going up.

After he won the belt he could've easily stayed at FW bouncing heads off the canvas. He already dominated the current champ Max Holloway.

He just bit off more than he could chew at the end of the day and took risks others wouldn't dare. But at least he got paid far beyond anyone else ever.
 

Richard Turpin

Kingfisher
Lino said:
I only watched the 5 first minutes so far but the commentator is hilarious



Funny vid. But instructive as well. Khabib has the backing of strong religion, a strong patriarchy, a strong tribe. Any personal glory he achieves is reflected on his in-group and this is why he genuinely won't care what others outside the group think about him. They just don't matter.

It's almost like competing in the UFC is just an afterthought, a side-effect of his father's training and his tribal motivations.

Westerners just don't have that anymore. Instead it's all for personal fame and fortune.

Which brings me to Conor. Yeah, he's always known his own strengths and weaknesses and took the decision a long time ago to maximise his earnings via the entertainment/trash-talk route. Good game plan, well executed. Yes, he's also a gambler and has no shortage of personal courage to take these risks in the first place.
 

Saweeep

 
Banned
Banna said:
Looking in retrospect.....I'm no Conor fan at all but I have to admit he has a lot of balls. He went overboard and below the belt with Khabib and certainly deserved what he got in the cage and the backlash.

With his limited skill set and the amount of killers at LW it was only a matter of time before he got abused like this.

But some other greats....they were conservative and content not to do such a thing when it was demanded by many.

Look at the reluctance for years from GSP to move up to MW to possibly fight Silva. He saw a weak champ in Bisping he cherry picked. If Romero/whittaker who Bisping ducked to fight grandpa Hendo was champ he'd have never fought either of those killers.

Then Silva.....he wanted no part of going up to fight Jon Jones.

Then Jon Jones only when DC gets the belt now he opens his mouth about moving up to HW. Not when Cain, JDS or Werdum had the belt.

And both jones/Silva have failed drug tests and their legacies are tainted. Oh and look at the reluctance of Mighty mouse to fight TJ as well in that weak division they created for him.....im glad he lost his belt.

Conor on the other hand? He hadnt even fought Jose Aldo yet who at the time was almost invincible and had the audacity to disrespect the ENTIRE LW division and talk of wiping the floor with it. GSP, Silva and Jones wanted no part of going up.

After he won the belt he could've easily stayed at FW bouncing heads off the canvas. He already dominated the current champ Max Holloway.

He just bit off more than he could chew at the end of the day and took risks others wouldn't dare. But at least he got paid far beyond anyone else ever.

Do you have any experience of competitive fighting?

I ask this because you talk like jumping 10/20lb weight classes is as simple as pie.

20lbs is enough to have an elite champion get humbled by a top 10 contender.

MMA isn't boxing with it's tiny little weight divisions mate.
 

Banna

 
Banned
Saweeep said:
Banna said:
Looking in retrospect.....I'm no Conor fan at all but I have to admit he has a lot of balls. He went overboard and below the belt with Khabib and certainly deserved what he got in the cage and the backlash.

With his limited skill set and the amount of killers at LW it was only a matter of time before he got abused like this.

But some other greats....they were conservative and content not to do such a thing when it was demanded by many.

Look at the reluctance for years from GSP to move up to MW to possibly fight Silva. He saw a weak champ in Bisping he cherry picked. If Romero/whittaker who Bisping ducked to fight grandpa Hendo was champ he'd have never fought either of those killers.

Then Silva.....he wanted no part of going up to fight Jon Jones.

Then Jon Jones only when DC gets the belt now he opens his mouth about moving up to HW. Not when Cain, JDS or Werdum had the belt.

And both jones/Silva have failed drug tests and their legacies are tainted. Oh and look at the reluctance of Mighty mouse to fight TJ as well in that weak division they created for him.....im glad he lost his belt.

Conor on the other hand? He hadnt even fought Jose Aldo yet who at the time was almost invincible and had the audacity to disrespect the ENTIRE LW division and talk of wiping the floor with it. GSP, Silva and Jones wanted no part of going up.

After he won the belt he could've easily stayed at FW bouncing heads off the canvas. He already dominated the current champ Max Holloway.

He just bit off more than he could chew at the end of the day and took risks others wouldn't dare. But at least he got paid far beyond anyone else ever.

Do you have any experience of competitive fighting?

I ask this because you talk like jumping 10/20lb weight classes is as simple as pie.

20lbs is enough to have an elite champion get humbled by a top 10 contender.

MMA isn't boxing with it's tiny little weight divisions mate.

How can you argue it's so hard when 2 of the 3 aforementioned fighters actually did go up in weight class?

Silva went up to LHW 3 times to fight in his UFC career.

GSP went up to 185 to fight Bisping.....now he's ridiculously trying to cut to a lightweight class he's never even fought at to bully someone much smaller than him for some bogus "legacy" fight.

And the 3rd one Jones....suddenly sees DC a guy hes beat twice as champ and is now willing to go there, but when Cain, Stipe, JDS and Doom were, not a word out of him?
 

Trumpian

 
Banned
^Both GSP and Khabib are 5'10 and walk around 190lbs. The latter just cuts a silly amount of weight. It's a good fight.

Jumping weight is no joke. Boxers are reluctant to do it even with their micro 3-5lb jumps. Just 5lbs extra can really hurt ones gas tank.
 

Banna

 
Banned
Trumpian said:
^Both GSP and Khabib are 5'10 and walk around 190lbs. The latter just cuts a silly amount of weight. It's a good fight.

Jumping weight is no joke. Boxers are reluctant to do it even with their micro 3-5lb jumps. Just 5lbs extra can really hurt ones gas tank.

That's another dour 50-45 fight for GSP. It goes like how his rematch with Josh Koshcheck went.

Khabib is NOT bullying GSP in wrestling or even having him so scared of takedowns that he'll get tagged like Conor did in the 3rd round . He keeps it standing and jabs Khabibs face off.

GsP vs Tyron
Khabib vs Tony

Those are the real compelling 50/50 fights If you aren't someone who cares about : "oh this guy (Woodley & Ferguson in this case) doesn't draw Ppvs or have a big assed following so they shouldn't pursue this fight", blah blah.

Both guys matchup great and will be the biggest tests either face and WW and LW.....+ have a good chance to beat and even finish either GSP or Khabib.
 

Saweeep

 
Banned
Banna said:
Saweeep said:
Banna said:
Looking in retrospect.....I'm no Conor fan at all but I have to admit he has a lot of balls. He went overboard and below the belt with Khabib and certainly deserved what he got in the cage and the backlash.

With his limited skill set and the amount of killers at LW it was only a matter of time before he got abused like this.

But some other greats....they were conservative and content not to do such a thing when it was demanded by many.

Look at the reluctance for years from GSP to move up to MW to possibly fight Silva. He saw a weak champ in Bisping he cherry picked. If Romero/whittaker who Bisping ducked to fight grandpa Hendo was champ he'd have never fought either of those killers.

Then Silva.....he wanted no part of going up to fight Jon Jones.

Then Jon Jones only when DC gets the belt now he opens his mouth about moving up to HW. Not when Cain, JDS or Werdum had the belt.

And both jones/Silva have failed drug tests and their legacies are tainted. Oh and look at the reluctance of Mighty mouse to fight TJ as well in that weak division they created for him.....im glad he lost his belt.

Conor on the other hand? He hadnt even fought Jose Aldo yet who at the time was almost invincible and had the audacity to disrespect the ENTIRE LW division and talk of wiping the floor with it. GSP, Silva and Jones wanted no part of going up.

After he won the belt he could've easily stayed at FW bouncing heads off the canvas. He already dominated the current champ Max Holloway.

He just bit off more than he could chew at the end of the day and took risks others wouldn't dare. But at least he got paid far beyond anyone else ever.

Do you have any experience of competitive fighting?

I ask this because you talk like jumping 10/20lb weight classes is as simple as pie.

20lbs is enough to have an elite champion get humbled by a top 10 contender.

MMA isn't boxing with it's tiny little weight divisions mate.

How can you argue it's so hard when 2 of the 3 aforementioned fighters actually did go up in weight class?

Silva went up to LHW 3 times to fight in his UFC career.

GSP went up to 185 to fight Bisping.....now he's ridiculously trying to cut to a lightweight class he's never even fought at to bully someone much smaller than him for some bogus "legacy" fight.

And the 3rd one Jones....suddenly sees DC a guy hes beat twice as champ and is now willing to go there, but when Cain, Stipe, JDS and Doom were, not a word out of him?

I'm arguing it's so hard because it bloody well is.

Which is why I asked you about your experience of ringsport. Nobody who had little more than a serious interest, let along experience would say such drivel.
 

Banna

 
Banned
Saweeep said:
Banna said:
Saweeep said:
Banna said:
Looking in retrospect.....I'm no Conor fan at all but I have to admit he has a lot of balls. He went overboard and below the belt with Khabib and certainly deserved what he got in the cage and the backlash.

With his limited skill set and the amount of killers at LW it was only a matter of time before he got abused like this.

But some other greats....they were conservative and content not to do such a thing when it was demanded by many.

Look at the reluctance for years from GSP to move up to MW to possibly fight Silva. He saw a weak champ in Bisping he cherry picked. If Romero/whittaker who Bisping ducked to fight grandpa Hendo was champ he'd have never fought either of those killers.

Then Silva.....he wanted no part of going up to fight Jon Jones.

Then Jon Jones only when DC gets the belt now he opens his mouth about moving up to HW. Not when Cain, JDS or Werdum had the belt.

And both jones/Silva have failed drug tests and their legacies are tainted. Oh and look at the reluctance of Mighty mouse to fight TJ as well in that weak division they created for him.....im glad he lost his belt.

Conor on the other hand? He hadnt even fought Jose Aldo yet who at the time was almost invincible and had the audacity to disrespect the ENTIRE LW division and talk of wiping the floor with it. GSP, Silva and Jones wanted no part of going up.

After he won the belt he could've easily stayed at FW bouncing heads off the canvas. He already dominated the current champ Max Holloway.

He just bit off more than he could chew at the end of the day and took risks others wouldn't dare. But at least he got paid far beyond anyone else ever.

Do you have any experience of competitive fighting?

I ask this because you talk like jumping 10/20lb weight classes is as simple as pie.

20lbs is enough to have an elite champion get humbled by a top 10 contender.

MMA isn't boxing with it's tiny little weight divisions mate.

How can you argue it's so hard when 2 of the 3 aforementioned fighters actually did go up in weight class?

Silva went up to LHW 3 times to fight in his UFC career.

GSP went up to 185 to fight Bisping.....now he's ridiculously trying to cut to a lightweight class he's never even fought at to bully someone much smaller than him for some bogus "legacy" fight.

And the 3rd one Jones....suddenly sees DC a guy hes beat twice as champ and is now willing to go there, but when Cain, Stipe, JDS and Doom were, not a word out of him?

I'm arguing it's so hard because it bloody well is.

Which is why I asked you about your experience of ringsport. Nobody who had little more than a serious interest, let along experience would say such drivel.

You're the one spouting drivel by ignoring the FACT they have moved up in weight to fight. I never argued it was simple....they have all shown they can do it if without a dropoff in performance. But in reality the guys they actually moved up for were guys they could exploit and not the true feared match up problems.

Conor was moving up to LW at a point when Dos Anjos was on a killer run and had beaten the daylights out of prime Pettis, Koed former champ Henderson giving him his first stoppage loss by strikes and Cerrone who was on a tear.

Gsp a career WW moved up to fight Bisping because he saw the most favourable match up possible there. Even vowed when if he got the belt he'd defend it. Then looks at who he'd have to face and suddenly is like "oh I'm outta here".

Whittaker has beasted since he moved up from the same weight class GSP fought in.

Silva fought Travis Lutter, Rich Franklin & Forrest Griffin at 205.
 

Banna

 
Banned
Repo said:
Banna, your examples are some of the best fighters in the UFC ever, and that is why its not hard?

Robert Whittaker the current MW champion (who GSP suddenly had cold feet to fight when he vowed to defend when he won lol) fought 3 times at 170, has moved up to 185 and has been undefeated since.

Gastelum was a WW and is 5 - 1 at MW and is actually fighting Whittaker.

But listening to Saweep Rooshs self appointed combat ring expert (it's out of the realm for the aforementioned guys who only were willing to move up when favourable stylistic match ups presented themselves) you're sure to get humbled moving up.

Actually it's quite embarrassing to the sport with fights cancelled at last minute and dangerous to have these countless guys including Khabib/max holloway hospitalized and pulling out of fights trying to cut to a lower weight class to maintain a competitive advantage.
 

Saweeep

 
Banned
You never answered my question: do you have any actual, real life (not sitting on your couch watching UFC fight pass) experience of ring sport?

See, I got a lifetime of it so I think it's a pertinent question.
 

Banna

 
Banned
Saweeep said:
You never answered my question: do you have any actual, real life (not sitting on your couch watching UFC fight pass) experience of ring sport?

See, I got a lifetime of it so I think it's a pertinent question.

Maaayne I don't give a hoot to hear about your so called lifetime credentials Internet tough guy lol(I wrestled before I grew to being a 6'6" giraffe that took up basketball if that's your answer)

GSP moved up Silva moved up 3x to fight at 205 and finished the guys they fought and yet your ass is arguing about them potentially having major struggles. Now Jones only wants to fight at HW vs a guy he owned twice.

Its not like i made up "What if" hypotheticals......these are FACTS that actually happened took place in their careers.

Robert Whittaker has twice fought arguably the most dangerous MW in history Yoel Romero. Romero would obliterate anyone GSP has ever fought with ease. Whittaker was a 170 lb WW like GSP so please spare me this rubbish about a championship calibre fighter suddenly losing to top 10 at a higher weight class.

Your ass don't wanna admit GSP Jones and Silva only cherry picked opponents when talks came about moving up in weight class. The weight cut had nothing to do with it....they were capable as long it was the right stylistic match up for them.

FACTS.
 

Saweeep

 
Banned
TigerMandingo said:
I don't get why Banna is required to have fighting experience in order to have an opinion on MMA weight class divisions lol.

Because he is making out that it's easy for fighters to do and the reason they don't is because they're scared...or something.

I have loads of decent level fighters at my gym (kickboxing not mma but the point still stands). We have one national level fighter who has also fought internationally; fights at 72kg. He gets bullied by regional level 82kg fighters. He can't cope with their extra size and power.

The weight classes within the UFC are massive, massive jumps.

That's the point. Anyone can armchair quarterback.

"lol"
 

Flux

 
Banned
^Yet Mayweather still beat a much heavier Mcgregor after being outboxed in the early rounds.

Mcgregor had very good technique but gassed out much earlier than Mayweather; the extra weight certainly didn’t help him.

Weight gives you power but takes away cardio, so it can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the fighter. Weight cutting is also brutal, so a lighter oponent that doesn’t have to weight cut as much would also have that advantage.

In the end the talent wins 99% of the time just like in all of sports. People love to make a big deal out of the variables, but the best always win, given they perform at their ability, which they always do because they’re obsessed.

Women are much more inconsistent though across all sports—their mental strength is weak—so the most talented can lose any given day. You can see it blatantly in tennis.
 

Saweeep

 
Banned
Flux said:
^Yet Mayweather still beat a much heavier Mcgregor after being outboxed in the early rounds.

Mcgregor had very good technique but gassed out much earlier than Mayweather; the extra weight certainly didn’t help him.

Weight gives you power but takes away cardio, so it can be an advantage or disadvantage depending on the fighter. Weight cutting is also brutal, so a lighter oponent that doesn’t have to weight cut as much would also have that advantage.

In the end the talent wins 99% of the time just like in all of sports. People love to make a big deal out of the variables, but the best always win, given they perform at their ability.

I'm not sure MayMac is a great example ya know.

Talent does in no way shape or form overcome size in the ring. Let's just take your argument to the absurd...would Mayweather be able to handle David Haye int he boxing ring?

(I've picked a legend and a legend in his own mind but not in reality for a reason)

If you think he would, you need to give your head a wobble.
 

Trumpian

 
Banned
^And weight makes a bigger difference in MMA and grappling than striking. You got kickboxers like Mark Hunt (280lbs and iron chin to boot) who've been knocked out by kickboxers a 100lbs lighter than them like Melvin Manhoef(middle weight).

You'll never see a grappler even 50lbs lighter prevail. The weight difference is just too great a disadvantage.
 
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