Any others struggling with wokeness in the Catholic church? How to deal with it?

TheosisSeeker

Woodpecker
Orthodox Catechumen
I remember I was sitting in Catholic mass with family members (who are not Orthodox), when I was visiting Italy at Christmas...either 2015 or 2016, and instead of giving a traditional birth of Christ our Saviour homily, the priest lectured the congregation about how "Jesus was a refugee too", and how we are supposed to accept them. I was floored...Even in Italy they pull this. I knew the RC church was going leftist/Protestant since Vatican II, but this was ridiculous. I don't know why anyone stays in the Novus Ordo parishes. Tridentine Mass I can understand...it is a beautiful service and the parishes are usually not woke.

I don't have any specifics and this is just speculation, but the way churches tow the line for wokism like corporations makes me wonder if they are being bought off or funded by subversives.
 

Chickenlord

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
I don't have any specifics and this is just speculation, but the way churches tow the line for wokism like corporations makes me wonder if they are being bought off or funded by subversives.

John Courtney Murray, Time/Life, and the American Proposition By David A. Wemhoff

This is the book you want to read about one of the real reasons for the whole wokism inside Roman Catholic churches.
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
People drop this book title often enough that perhaps it's worth having its own thread. I have not read it, or the other commonly mentioned "Murder in the 33rd degree". Though, I doubt either will help a parishioner who just happens to be in a particularly woke parish, but could be useful input into the bigger picture.
 

paternos

Kingfisher
Catholic
The reason is because not every Novus Ordo parish is as described by @paternos. In fact, the new mass can be quite appealing because it is accessible. Especially to children, converts, and the elderly. I have forty-seven years of experience with the Novus Ordo, and less than six months with a Tridentine mass. The new mass continues to face growing pains even after four decades; settling into a consistent, yet approachable style that limits the ability of any particular priest to bring in elements that are outside the church. Some day I will make a list of the changes I have witnessed in four decades in the presentation of the Mass. As witness to both, I see ample evidence that the Novus Ordo mass has progressively incorporated more and more elements of the traditional Latin mass over time. There is a significant difference, too, in the presentation of the morning daily Mass and the Sunday Mass. At the daily mass, I routinely see (at a Novus Ordo church), veiled women, parishioners kneeling on the floor to take the Eucharist on the tongue, and Latin prayers. This is not uncommon. I would not be surprised to see that trend continue. The move, however, is only in one direction. It is from the Novus Ordo mass TO the Latin Mass, because the traditional Latin Mass has been preserved, and will not move. So, if you are looking for optimism, there is the evidence for it. Pick up a book on the mass printed in the 1930s, and you will be able to use it for every prayer and follow along with every aspect of the Mass today, without having to make any adjustments. No words are skipped, nothing has changed. As long as the TLM exists, and the Novus Ordo mass continues to move back in this direction as a whole (the topic at hand being the exception), there is a lot on which we can trust in God's plan for the church in faith, hope, and charity.
This is a great post.

I listened this interview today, I especially like the second hour with Bishop Williamson going into the fact that God is also in the Novus Ordo with a very critical investigative traditional Catholic interviewer. I have seen it myself not so long ago in Poland. A 45 minute mass at 21:30 on a Sunday, a young priest, the church was packed, people on the floor, all folding chair taken, when entering the church many went on their knees first. All in Polish. (don't speak a word)



They also go into the importance of finding a good priest. And I think that's important for me, finding a priest closer to my beliefs close to home and regularly go to Tridentine Mass.
 
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Brother Michael

 
Banned
Orthodox
Lately in my parish wokeness is entering in the homilies of our priests, and I'm struggling with that.

First to be said I feel at home in the Catholic church, the lithurgy, the monastries, the monks, the art, the saints, the gospel, the diversity in thought, the bible, the latin mass, the intellectuals, the senses.

But lately in the homilies of our priests, things come up that make we doubt on the spiritual alignment of the current church, the constant donations for the war in Ukraine, referring to diversity of religions praying to the same God, the priests referring that all religions need to work together we can create a better world and save the climate, separate youth celebrations, the referring to refugees as the stranger we need to help.

And while being focused on the things above, we see less funds for our own parish, less attention for the newcomer, the stranger in our own church, less attention for the old people that could use some help, the missionary work to be done in our own cities, not addressing sins as anti-conception, abortion and there is no addressing of the perversions pushed by our politicians that are fully unchristian, let alone the sacrament of confession which is not actively promoted.

Somebody once said it well to me, I want a priest that guides me to heaven, and I have doubt the current focus will take me there.

Are you observing similar things? And if how do you address it? How do you deal with it yourself?
Dude, I was a Lay Catholic Apologist in the Rockford IL Diocese 30yrs ago. It was so bad then with the "Ministry for Social Justice".

I spent a decade trying everything I could just to get priests and Laity to treat the Eucharist like the Eucharist. It was a pointless campaign like Jousting at Windmills.

It was actually studying First Millennium Councils and Canons in these efforts which eventually led me to Orthodox Christianity almost 20yrs ago. See Canon 6 Nicea 325,AD.

I've had one meeting with a Roman Catholic priest of the Lacrosse Diocese 8yrs ago. He told me he communes ANYONE even Cathecumens. I told him: "Priests like you are why I left the Roman Catholic Church." He was literally gobsmacked. His jaw almost hit his desk. He'd never had anyone say such a thing to him.

Your priests MUST hear from you. In the history of Orthodoxy it's always been the Laity and humble rural priests and bishops who maintain the Orthodoxy of the Faith. One Metropolitan changed one word of the Divine Liturgy once and a riot broke out in the cathedral. The Metropolitan was run out of town and deposed. That's how Orthodoxy has always worked. Bishops MUST be faithful. When they get too big for their cossacks though and start changing things, they get deposed. This Holy Tradition goes on today in the Orthodox Church. Bad bishops get deposed, retired to a monastery.

This RC priest in the Lacrosse, WI Diocese...Besides communing anyone he was 200lbs overweight and a flaming homosexual, as all RC priests in Wisconsin seem to be. He didn't even know what the Eastern Orthodox Church was. Seriously.

I can't imagine how much more worse it is today.

IC XC
NI KA
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
I've never seen or heard of a Catholic priest knowingly and willfully offering an unbaptized person Communion. If I became aware of it, I'd certainly not be quiet about it either. Sounds like a sad situation, far surpassing the concern of 'wokeness'.
 

Brother Michael

 
Banned
Orthodox
I've never seen or heard of a Catholic priest knowingly and willfully offering an unbaptized person Communion. If I became aware of it, I'd certainly not be quiet about it either. Sounds like a sad situation, far surpassing the concern of 'wokeness'.
My brother in law was a communing Cathecumen in the Lacrosse Wisconsin Diocese. Go ahead, call that diocese and complain. See how dar that goes. 30yrs ago in that Diocese faithful Catholics who desired to receive on the tongue while kneeling were denied the Eucharist. Saddest thing I ever saw in a Catholic Church -- a family of six all kneeling waiting to receive. All ignored by the priest. As a lay Apologist I had words with the priest who said he was under bishop's orders. "That's not an excuse." I told him. He was ashamed, a coward.

I was shocked when that priest's successor...both men were 100+lbs obese and very gay...told me he communes anyone. I thought my brother in law was confusing a blessing for Communion. He wasn't. I had no idea how much further far off the rails the Catholic Church had become in my decade absence. I'm sure it's even worse now.
 

Uprising

Sparrow
Trad Catholic
There's no doubt there are bad priests and bishops currently in the Catholic Church. It's not the first time this has happened in Her history. Satan constantly targets the Catholic Church, both from outside and inside. We are currently living through a period in history where Satan is attacking from the inside. One must not forget about the Arian heresy where about 99% of Catholic bishops denied the divinity of Christ. The Church is going through and will continue to go through a process of purification, whereby the rot of modernism will be expelled.

While this is not a place for Catholic apologetics, since the Canon 6 of Nicaea was brought up, I thought I would post this video:

 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
As witness to both, I see ample evidence that the Novus Ordo mass has progressively incorporated more and more elements of the traditional Latin mass over time. There is a significant difference, too, in the presentation of the morning daily Mass and the Sunday Mass. At the daily mass, I routinely see (at a Novus Ordo church), veiled women, parishioners kneeling on the floor to take the Eucharist on the tongue, and Latin prayers. This is not uncommon. I would not be surprised to see that trend continue. The move, however, is only in one direction. It is from the Novus Ordo mass TO the Latin Mass, because the traditional Latin Mass has been preserved, and will not move.
This!!!1

You frequently hear conservative, Benedict XVI types say "oh the new and old masses should come together and learn from one another." Sure. But what is there for the old mass to borrow from the new? Nothing.
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
I can generally get an idea how the next ~40 minutes will proceed based on the first several minutes of the Mass. If, after the procession, the celebrant only pauses very briefly before ascending the altar; and if, upon reaching the altar, he starts with "Good morning", "Hello", or makes any other general announcements, I open my own prayer book and begin my own devotional prayers (mostly in English, some Latin) in parallel with the timing of the Mass. That's been my strategy of late, when my work schedule does not permit me to attend TLM (one day a week). It is not that different from how I approach the Latin mass, during silent prayers, where I follow along directly or, turn to devotionals.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
I can generally get an idea how the next ~40 minutes will proceed based on the first several minutes of the Mass. If, after the procession, the celebrant only pauses very briefly before ascending the altar; and if, upon reaching the altar, he starts with "Good morning", "Hello", or makes any other general announcements, I open my own prayer book and begin my own devotional prayers (mostly in English, some Latin) in parallel with the timing of the Mass. That's been my strategy of late, when my work schedule does not permit me to attend TLM (one day a week). It is not that different from how I approach the Latin mass, during silent prayers, where I follow along directly or, turn to devotionals.
This is my of my main problems with the new mass - it's impossible (for me) to pray. When someone (the priest) is facing me, speaking to me, in English, over a microphone, I pay attention. It's extremely difficult to avert my attention.

Contrast this to the old mass, where the prayers of the mass are sort of like a bus route. You can hop on, ride the bus a while, then hop off if you find a good stop, then hop back on whenever you're ready to go.
 

Viktor Zeegelaar

Crow
Orthodox Inquirer
Wokeness is everywhere. The normie is worldly. Most Christians are normies. So they're influenced by the world first and foremost. That's just how reality is. From the Prots to Caths to Orthodox in all denominations churches closed down during corona, people wore masks etc. It's fairly unique that someone is red pilled on how the system works and is aware of the divine truth of Christ. Most will happily welcome antichrist, take the jungle juice, take the mark, and sell others out when the time comes. And so may we. Let's hope we can remain standing strong.
 

BasilSeal

Kingfisher
Trad Catholic
Gold Member
Fr. McTeigue's sermon starting at 15:30. A must listen.
We need to be formed and transformed so that when the time comes we will still hear and follow the voice of the one true shephard.
This is a time to be serious about discipleship. We cannot afford to play or pretend anymore. This is not going to work itself out on its own.
Christ cannot be defeated.

 

paternos

Kingfisher
Catholic
If your parish is succumbing to modernism there are only two options. #1 - stay and hope to change things. #2 - leave.

I don't think it's possible to change your parish. I have never heard of changes being led by the laity. When parishes experience culture changes, it's because the pastor changes, not the congregation.

Eric Sammons agrees in this video/podcast:

#2 is likely the best option. Like many other posters mention, you may be "OK" with the new mass, but it's clear from your post that you are not happy with the fruits of it. And because preaching and spiritual direction you receive from your priest is arguably as important as the liturgy, you are within your rights to look elsewhere.
Just wanted to share that my quest has been successful. I actively searched, asked for a few meetings with priests. Joined an Alpha course. Met a new priest, solid, passionate, found a new evening mass in weekdays close to home with good energy. I didn't say bye to my parish, but am more selective now and I'm really happy with it. Spending more time in good surroundings and I feel and see a step up in my faith.

Just to say, it's about something very important, and you're right there. A bad homily can ruin mass. A good one can lift it.
 

redbeard

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
Just wanted to share that my quest has been successful. I actively searched, asked for a few meetings with priests. Joined an Alpha course. Met a new priest, solid, passionate, found a new evening mass in weekdays close to home with good energy. I didn't say bye to my parish, but am more selective now and I'm really happy with it. Spending more time in good surroundings and I feel and see a step up in my faith.

Just to say, it's about something very important, and you're right there. A bad homily can ruin mass. A good one can lift it.
Great to hear. I have to ask... is it a TLM parish? :nerd
 
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