Anyone demoralized about job opportunities?

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
My mom is bored at home and has past retail experience but she hasn't worked in many years, she just got offered $22 an hour to be the key holder at a small scale department store just completely randomly not even out there looking for a job.

Those of you complaining about job opportunities don't want to work, you want to work the job you want. Go and make something happen.
 

Nordwand

Kingfisher
Check out the International Union of Elevator Constructors (IUEC). The elevator guys have two pay rates - straight pay and triple time! It was always a very closed and nepotistic field. Your dad or uncle or brother had to get you in. They have opened up a bit but it is still really tough to get in.

They opened the books ,i.e., the apprenticeship program, in my city a few months ago for the first time in years. The website crashed in eight minutes because so many people were trying to register! A guy in the know told me if I knew anyone who wanted to get in they should move to Nashville and go through the apprentice program there. After you've worked there and got your card you can work anywhere in the US.

The big companies are OTIS, Schindler, Thyssen Krup, Kone. Do some research on them and see what you can find. There are guys that do install and guys that do service work. You will be everybody's best friend when you show up to repair an out of service elevator. Service guys usually get a take home vehicle too. If you don't early morning starts (before tenants show up at buildings) you can make good coin. Good luck.
Treble time - I remember it well. When I was young, enhanced rates were 1.33 regular overtime, 1.5 on Saturday, double time Sundays, and treble time on Bank Holidays (possibly with a day in lieu on top). Now, I tell young guys about this, and they think I've lost my mind.
 
My mom is bored at home and has past retail experience but she hasn't worked in many years, she just got offered $22 an hour to be the key holder at a small scale department store just completely randomly not even out there looking for a job.

Those of you complaining about job opportunities don't want to work, you want to work the job you want. Go and make something happen.

I know two handfuls of director and above men. Where do you suggest they work? They're all submitting resumes regularly and networking...no calls back. Zero.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I know two handfuls of director and above men. Where do you suggest they work? They're all submitting resumes regularly and networking...no calls back. Zero.


The fact that you're labeling them as "director and above" is the issue right there brother, we've talked about this before EG I feel like you're really caught up on the idea that the past entitles you to something in the present. It doesn't, nobody is going to hand you money just because you have a title or you think you deserve more.

You're not entitled to a better job, you're a man you have to work and you have to do what it takes. If that means making less money and having a lower position then so be it, you make your living and calculate your moves until you can do better you don't sit at home and do nothing. I do ecommerce day to day I have a big warehouse full of merchandise, if my business goes belly up I'm not going to sit at home and wait for another ecommerce business opportunity I'm going to go and get a job and build myself back up.

Isn't this specifically something we all rail against on this forum......the idea that someone is entitled to something because of the past?
 
The premise about "job opportunities" is flawed, it implies that someone should give you something. You sound like a younger guy since you are still studying, yet you turn your nose up at $12 fast food work. My first, taxable-pay job in the late 90s was making pizza for $4.50/hour, later at a bagel shop for $6.75, then lifeguarding for $10, finally in a library for $12, before I got my first salaried job at age 25. Opportunities don't fall out of the sky, you have to hustle any way you can before things start lining up and you have the luxury of picking and choosing your work. Submitting resumes cold has always been a low percentage play, either being an unpaid intern or a grunt-level employee in an organization is always an easier way to get a full-time gig.

Unless you have a better option I would suggest you work either in fast food or manual labor, if only to gain some humility which is indispensable in life. One of the many terrible things about our modern economy is that illegals and lower-class adults are working entry-level jobs as indefinite "careers" instead of being the launching pad for American teenagers and 20-somethings that it was for generations. If you want something more sales-oriented, start selling things on Craigslist, NextDoor, etc. there's a whole subculture of resellers you can find online, even as a side hustle it's a huge learning experience and more than you'll lear in some BS sales class in college.
 
The fact that you're labeling them as "director and above" is the issue right there brother, we've talked about this before EG I feel like you're really caught up on the idea that the past entitles you to something in the present. It doesn't, nobody is going to hand you money just because you have a title or you think you deserve more.

You're not entitled to a better job, you're a man you have to work and you have to do what it takes. If that means making less money and having a lower position then so be it, you make your living and calculate your moves until you can do better you don't sit at home and do nothing. I do ecommerce day to day I have a big warehouse full of merchandise, if my business goes belly up I'm not going to sit at home and wait for another ecommerce business opportunity I'm going to go and get a job and build myself back up.

Isn't this specifically something we all rail against on this forum......the idea that someone is entitled to something because of the past?

Thank you for reminding me. I don't disagree but you're missing the point. Take a few minutes and put yourself in these guys shoes who I know, most of whom are Christian. You're 46 or 47. You're at your total peak and highly accomplished. You've spent decades learning how to be at your best. Now you're being told to work at Starbucks third shift for $10 an hour while some blue hair screams at you to put your mask back on. Why would you do that? What path to advancement is there at a place like that in an economy like this?

I agree about work ethic and I'm a work-aholic who puts 99.9% of people to shame with how hard I go at it. However, you need to both look at the big picture and the personal details involved. Most importantly you need to think about the business aspects. No self-respecting man is going to get that Starbucks job, especially since there's a good chance they're going to fire you again during the next round of lockdowns or once everyone has finally realized there's no boom happening, just a half-assed re-opening of a broken economy.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Thank you for reminding me. I don't disagree but you're missing the point. Take a few minutes and put yourself in these guys shoes who I know, most of whom are Christian. You're 46 or 47. You're at your total peak and highly accomplished. You've spent decades learning how to be at your best. Now you're being told to work at Starbucks third shift for $10 an hour while some blue hair screams at you to put your mask back on. Why would you do that? What path to advancement is there at a place like that in an economy like this?

I agree about work ethic and I'm a work-aholic who puts 99.9% of people to shame with how hard I go at it. However, you need to both look at the big picture and the personal details involved. Most importantly you need to think about the business aspects. No self-respecting man is going to get that Starbucks job, especially since there's a good chance they're going to fire you again during the next round of lockdowns or once everyone has finally realized there's no boom happening, just a half-assed re-opening of a broken economy.

Brother it’s hard to have a discussion if you’re going to dramatize it that much, these guys you are referring to are not going to end up working at Starbucks for minimum wage. The issue isn’t that their only option is Starbucks the issue is that they think they are entitled to more because of the past, which they certainly are not.

Honestly who does that sound like to you?

I should leave this reply at that I’m starting to feel like mother goose with these stories but here goes….

My uncle who is in his late 50’s lost everything more than once, full on bankruptcy lose everything, he has kids with dystonia and while he was always highly successful in business all his time and money eventually went to trying to help their condition. I wish I could give you details without revealing who he is or the company but his last company which went under was a hugely successful financial company with a giant leg up on anyone but he lost it all because his kids got worse and he was never there. He was traveling with them spending untold millions on specialized doctors all over the world to try and help them…..he lost everything to help his kids spent everything the company was worth and he was worth until it couldn’t operate anymore and he himself the brains behind it wasn’t there to run it. The big fish who were salivating over what he had that were his “partners” moved in and decided to just do it themselves, they didn’t care that he owned the rights he didn’t have the money to sue big banks spend years in courts and they knew it they were vultures waiting to pick over a corpse.

Well my uncle had nothing at all anymore and he had things taken from him that shouldn’t have been, he was totally screwed over everyone who screwed him knew they screwed him and didn’t care….but he didn’t stop and lament the world for not giving him more.

Right away he built a medical supply company out of nowhere, something he has no expierence or background in whatsoever we were all confused as to why he was doing that even chiding him for it…..not me I would never chide my uncle but my father and his brothers sure were. Well 5 years later he sold it for well into 8 figures to the largest supply company in the world and retained a percentage of the business. Now it’s being sold again for well into 9 figures and he is getting his cut. So now he’s working on a deal to buy out the corporate arm of a huge franchiser, which again he has no experience in, while simultaneously running a PPE company along with other random businesses….in his 50’s with nothing to start with.

Please don’t tell me age is a factor or your past profession dictates anything, I’m not sitting here trying to sound like an after school special but if you’re a hard worker and you’re smart nothing will hold you back. That attitude needs to be dropped or you’ll never get anywhere, you should tell those guys you are referring to exactly that.

Myself personally NOTHING worked out for me, I am not joking when I say that, NOTHING I have done worked out business wise I didn’t get lucky in anything or get a big break or anything to speak of to hang my hat on. It was the complete and total opposite everything I tried failed, but I didn’t stop. I kept going no matter what and I kept trying and I made a life for myself that I’m proud of and can call myself a success for it even if I didn’t get that big break or get lucky, my struggles paid off.

You have to try, you have to keep going…that’s all it comes down to.
 
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Honestly who does that sound like to you?

Youre underestimating what's happening, Francis. We agree on the values but not on how things are going. I appreciate your attitude but I do think you'll find out it's insulting to hard-working Christian men who can't find work anywhere. So let's try a different angle.

I've been a job creator for a good portion of my career. However, the economic devastation brought by the lock-downs has hurt us in a big way. Luckily I've been a hard worker who has saved during good times. I have a choice: 1) shut things down and get a job far below my experience, 2) burn money trying to rebuild in a broken economy, 3) burn money chasing a new endeavor in a broken economy, or choice #4...

Walk away because I have the money to do so and spend the rest of the collapse with my family. Comparatively there's a reason you're seeing labor participation slipping to 60%. It has nothing to do with people needing better work ethics, although I don't disagree that many do. It's because the entire system is broken and despite what the media tells you, everyone knows it.
 
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FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Youre underestimating what's happening, Francis. We agree on the values but not on how things are going. I appreciate your attitude but I do think you'll find out it's insulting to hard-working Christian men who can't find work anywhere. So let's try a different angle.

I've been a job creator for a good portion of my career. However, the economic devastation brought by the lock-downs has hurt us in a big way. Luckily I've been a hard worker who has saved during good times. I have a choice: 1) shut things down and get a job far below my experience, 2) burn money trying to rebuild in a broken economy, 3) burn money chasing a new endeavor in a broken economy, or choice #4...

Walk away because I have the money to do so and spend the rest of the collapse with my family. Comparatively there's a reason you're seeing labor participation slipping to 60%. It has nothing to do with people needing better work ethics, although I don't disagree that many do. It's because the entire system is broken and despite what the media tells you, everyone knows it.

Brother everything you’re saying just sounds like “give me more I deserve it”. The only people who lost everything through this didn’t have anything real to begin with from what I have seen.

We can agree to disagree I certainly respect your stance on it.
 

bubs

Sparrow
The one thing I’ve been noticing in recent years in the biotech industry is that the work culture is going towards forcing salaried employees to work long hours as the daily/weekly norm and not the exception/rare occasions to hit a deadline. Sustained 60hour work weeks for long term is not a healthy situation for anyone and the management of these companies are just exploiting their workers to squeeze profit margins. I’ve talked to people in many companies in this industry and hearing the same thing. 10-20 years ago, 8-9 hour work days were the norm and maybe a few times a year you worked long hrs for a few days or over a weekend for a critical deadline/goal. No working vacations…it could wait until you return or you delegate to others. Now it’s just keep piling it onto existing staff, create less efficient SOPs to follow and don’t hire added workers either as business grows. People at the top get exponential gains while the labor is pushed down to the staff.
 

Easy_C

Peacock
The fact that you're labeling them as "director and above" is the issue right there brother, we've talked about this before EG I feel like you're really caught up on the idea that the past entitles you to something in the present. It doesn't, nobody is going to hand you money just because you have a title or you think you deserve more.
It’s not just that. If they look experienced prop wont want to hire them because they will assume that person will either leave as soon as they can or needs more money than retail wages
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
It’s not just that. If they look experienced prop wont want to hire them because they will assume that person will either leave as soon as they can or needs more money than retail wages

So the point you’re making is that these guys can’t find work because they are overqualified?

Tell me if I have that correct…?
 

Easy_C

Peacock
Kind of.

Also the job market isn’t even. Professional jobs are not “White Hot” as far as I can tell. Every retail place even in my rural red area has hiring signs up though.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Kind of.

Also the job market isn’t even. Professional jobs are not “White Hot” as far as I can tell. Every retail place even in my rural red area has hiring signs up though.

Well then guess what brother…better go get yourself one of those jobs.

Or sit on your tail do nothing and complain in this thread. Not saying you specifically just making the point…

I would shovel dog poop off the side of the highway if that’s what it took to take care of myself and the people who rely on me. This idea of entitlement from the past is a pretty alarming sentiment around these parts, assuming you’re not black or a hands out new immigrant….
 
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This idea of entitlement from the past is a pretty alarming sentiment around these parts

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's not entitlement. People are just deciding not to consume anymore and live off one salary. It's very evident in the data and when you talk to some of these people. I've mentioned before, friends are seriously shocked by how little my family lives off of a year so I know what's possible. To me it's a form of entitlement to think you have to work to fall further behind buying gadgets you don't need and eating out.

@Easy_C is also right and it's something I thought to mention but left off: I know people with COO on their resume. They have been laughed at when applying for jobs in the way you suggest.
 
While you have to do, what you have to do to provide for your family, you certainly shouldn't be happy about it or shut up and just deal with you. You should be furious that we have over-populated our country to the point we are now facing slave labor conditions.

One of the reasons I have worked 7 days a week for over 20 years straight is because things keep getting worse and worse and as more and more people come here. I want to do everything I can to never be in the situation to work a job I completely hate to just get by. So I have worked 2 jobs that I dislike (don't completely hate) to prevent this. My ancestors never had to do this, it is due to the country being vastly over-populated and creating a low standard of living.

If we continue to just accept the "roll up your sleeves and work harder" mantra that the elites push on us, we are no better than slaves. We have to do, what we have to do to pay the bills. But it shouldn't be a future we wish for our children and we need an immigration halt until things catch up and we can live a 1st world live style again. And with technology advances replacing the need for labor, that will likely be forever.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's not entitlement. People are just deciding not to consume anymore and live off one salary. It's very evident in the data and when you talk to some of these people. I've mentioned before, friends are seriously shocked by how little my family lives off of a year so I know what's possible. To me it's a form of entitlement to think you have to work to fall further behind buying gadgets you don't need and eating out.

@Easy_C is also right and it's something I thought to mention but left off: I know people with COO on their resume. They have been laughed at when applying for jobs in the way you suggest.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that, make more of less, I am 100% on board with that I am a minimalist myself. I don’t need any gadgets either, in fact I loathe that garbage and think it’s destroying society.

But that’s not what is being discussed, that is something entirely different you just introduced.
 

bubs

Sparrow
Also a new realization forthcoming is that with the telework reality, if you previously had a white collar job in a high cost of living area (SF, DC, Boston etc), now you may have to compete with competent or more competent people than yourself in lower cost of living areas that can do your job better for half the salary. Ability for average guys to land a good job are going to be very challenging due to national and international competition vs a local market of talent pool who would historically have to commute to an office or physically relocate fro a far off place.
 

kel

Ostrich
Also a new realization forthcoming is that with the telework reality, if you previously had a white collar job in a high cost of living area (SF, DC, Boston etc), now you may have to compete with competent or more competent people than yourself in lower cost of living areas that can do your job better for half the salary. Ability for average guys to land a good job are going to be very challenging due to national and international competition vs a local market of talent pool who would historically have to commute to an office or physically relocate fro a far off place.
It's an opportunity for average guys, too, though if they're willing to come in at an appropriate rate and are hard working. I've been hiring a number of "average guys" lately thanks to remote work now being acceptable, whereas previously the market was very tight (more jobs than talent locally) and flooded with bullshitters (people who've gotten good at personal branding, projecting "disruptor/thought leader" type vibes but really just dick around, etc).

It's true, though, that this will truly open up global arbitrage in the "knowledge worker" market. To be honest though that should've been the first area to suffer from offshoring, so the fact that it didn't tells me that it's understood a lot of these jobs are patronage jobs, keeping the PMC class happy enough.
 
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