Approaching and Hitting the Male Wall

At what age did you begin approaching the Wall?

  • Under 25

    Votes: 4 3.3%
  • 25 - 29

    Votes: 8 6.7%
  • 30 - 34

    Votes: 9 7.5%
  • 35 - 39

    Votes: 21 17.5%
  • 40 - 44

    Votes: 18 15.0%
  • 45 - 49

    Votes: 24 20.0%
  • 50 - 54

    Votes: 16 13.3%
  • 55 - 59

    Votes: 4 3.3%
  • 60 - 64

    Votes: 1 0.8%
  • Over 65

    Votes: 15 12.5%

  • Total voters
    120

kazz

Kingfisher
We all must accept ageing of course its a natural part of life, but why not fight it? extend your youth for as long as you can, age gracefully dont slam into that wall. I will extend my youth for as long as I can, for better or worse let the cards fall where they may.
 

Orwellsboot

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Sidney Crosby said:
Male wall victim hit hard at 68.

david-letterman-split-today-160324_abdf8e9a4f205ad42b22a96f0fd9bff7.today-inline-large2x.jpg

Not really that pronounced.

On TV
A) Wear makeup
B) Shaves
C) Wears a $5,000 suit

Going for a og
A) No makeup
B) has a santa clause beard
C) In an old t shirt
D) Perspiring
 
NASA Test Pilot said:
Yes, at age 48 years, 7 months my peak distance was 20,000 meters (long course) per day (low intensity doing 8,000-10,000 meters in the morning with weights (45-60 minutes) afterward 3-4 days per week followed by 8,000-12,000 meters in the afternoon. The afternoon workout was preceded by (30-45 minutes) of dryland training 3-4 days per week. Morning practice is generally in the water at 0500 and finishing at 0700-0730 (weights followed). In the afternoon, dryland training began at 1430 and then in the water at 1500-1515 until 1700-1800. Sometimes we had mental training in the evenings depending on the meso-cycles and competitions. Saturday practices were/are normally a 3 hour ordeal often with weights or dryland and/or mental training afterward. I dropped down to 18,000 meters peak distance shortly afterward during the next training cycle. Now I am at 16,000 meters peak distance and my next dip will be to 14,000-14,500 meters. My body fat is normally 6-6.5% during peak distance (where my fat intake is moderate, cholesterol in range and my T-levels near 800) and will drop down to 4.5-5% during taper where my body super compensates and I compete. When I am surfing more my body fat is 6-8% and I am a little meatier as surfing is more power and less endurance than swimming in general. If you are interested in workouts, sets, intervals or other specifics, send me a PM.

I'm sure your routine was different than what's normal as a modern airline pilot, but do you have any tips on how to counter the stresses of constantly changing between night and day work?

I'm an FO at a semi-major in Europe (think Southwest) and typically do 4 flights, 5 days on with 3-4 days off. I've already decided that I'll avoid commuting at all costs and make sure to do both aerobic and anaerobic exercises, but there's no way in hell to get a consistent sleep rhythm. I'm in my early 20s and at the moment, I find it pretty easy, but some of the older guys are noticeably worn out.

Also, nowadays there's a huge focus on the dangers of radiation and constant pressure changes on the body. I'm assuming NASA did a lot of research on this, do you have any input?
 

lovejoy

Robin
kazz said:
We all must accept ageing of course its a natural part of life, but why not fight it? extend your youth for as long as you can, age gracefully dont slam into that wall. I will extend my youth for as long as I can, for better or worse let the cards fall where they may.

I agree, I just turned 61 and don't feel a whole lot different than when I was 30, but then I've always maintained a healthy life style since my 20's. I don't smoke, I eat healthy, hit the gym three days a week and cycle at least 10 miles a day when the weather permits...I'm the same weight I've been most of my adult life (6'2" @ 175-180lbs.) and am on no medications of any kind...On the other hand, most of my friends of the same age look like shit and all are convinced I've got a really ugly portrait hung up in my attic....
 

NASA Test Pilot

 
Banned
@Running Turtles

Yes, NASA has done a lot of research on sleep, sleep cycles and rest in general. As it relates to hGH (and I will make a separate post) deep sleep particularly in stages 3 and 4 of Non-REM sleep is where over 50% of your hGH is released. Not sleeping from midnight to 4am and especially 2am-4am seems to be the most detrimental to the performance of flight duties. Flight test (that is not human performance based) is normally in daylight and over two periods in the morning is optimal (inverted spins and trying to force the vehicle outside of the operational envelope at night is not wise). If you are flying for FedEx or UPS you might start to feel other effects when you have multiple cycles per night (especially in excess 4 and upwards toward 7). The change will be easier if you fly one bid-cycle on days then another on nights. Depending on your seniority and equipment, you will get the less desired bid-lines and must deal with it. I would try to bid the longer international routes and equipment with less cycles per 24 hours, even though your TAFB (time away from base) is longer. If you are flying with hazardous cargo, you should have a radiation badge on (so make sure it is good) and consider blood work twice a year to confirm. I know stuff is being (legally) flown around and it is serious.

From the operational side of combat flying at night, the amount, quality, and regularity of eating was a major factor and there is a degradation of performance (accuracy of munitions placements, and the effectiveness against primary, secondary and tertiary targets) as the number of combat sorties increase over relatively shorter period (day) and it is more pronounced over expended periods of time (X sorties per day over Y amount of days). Attempting some regularity of exercise (particularly weights in the morning) was helpful was well as rest before Ops. Aerobic exercise in this environment was difficult, but the circuit training and things like jumping rope were helpful.

I would consider staying in the right seat longer to stabilize your body and then when you get the chance bid to the left seat when you have enough seniority to not get the less desired routes. You will, of course, being sacrificing money to do so and I do not know how seniority is calculated where you are flying.
 

VincentVinturi

Pelican
Gold Member
I'm about to turn 30.

I feel better now than I ever have in my adult life.

I attribute this to the fact that I have my own digital business, live in a sunny paradise, crush young poony on the regular, train hard, rest well, and get out into nature often.

None of that was true in my 20s.

You can age well if you take care of yourself.

And when you really start to feel your age, TRT is readily available.

I wouldn't even call it "the wall" - that's for women.

If you have your shit together you can keep leveling up into your 60s.

And then you can spend your 70s, 80s+ doing cool shit using the money you have saved up and playing with grandkids.

That's what it's all about.
 

SlickyBoy

Hummingbird
VincentVinturi said:
And then you can spend your 70s, 80s+ doing cool shit using the money you have saved up and playing with grandkids.

That's what it's all about.

By that time, I'd better have a slush fund. Till then, I'm afraid to go back to Asia and have my potential kids & grandkids find & bankrupt me.....
 

PhDre

Woodpecker
Gold Member
rudebwoy said:
Trust me, no amount of TRT will get me boners comparable to when I was a teenager.

I am talking boners that hit my stomach and that I could place a wet towel on.

T is not the biggest player when it comes to achieving rock hard erections.

You could try PT-141 or melanotan 2, these are synthetic analogues of MSH which is apparently the strongest erection inducing hormone in the human body.

Plenty of stories online from people who use these to get better boners than they've ever had in their lives.
 

thoughtgypsy

Kingfisher
Gold Member
Apologies ahead of time for the long post, but I wanted to include as much detail as possible, as I think a lot of guys on the forum might be able to relate to this, given my demographic (late 20s, early 30s).

I was apathetic about health for most of my life, though I got in the habit of consistently lifting when I around 20 years old. I've stuck with it to the present day with the occasional one month off maximum. Looking back on it, it was probably one of the best decisions I've made, and has afforded me relatively good health even with the occasional lapse of other healthy habits.

Had a minor health scare around 25 which couldn't be explained by conventional medical science. After being misdiagnosed a couple times, I researched unconventional treatments and became very interested in health and disciplined in my diet. I cured the condition, and despite being unrelated to diet, I retained my newfound health habits.

After college I lived in the DC area, where most socializing takes place only if massive amounts of alcohol are involved. The habit stuck with me and years after college I was still binge drinking regularly, even drinking moderately on weekdays (few beers after work). I was able to delay the effects of it for a while through good (non-inflammatory, vitamin-dense) diet, consistently working out, and consciously reducing the negative side effects through hydration and antioxidant supplementation. My liver and kidney function is in the optimal range. However, it still caught up with me and after a while I noticed my skin was starting to get rougher and I was prematurely aging. Despite having a receding hairline, my recessive features and soft angularity generally had me mistaken for a few years younger, though now people were putting me a few years older than I was. Too much beer consistently caused bloating, indigestion, and sleep disruption.

Since I've recently returned to the US, I've realized how anti-social the culture is. At least from what I can tell, it's extremely rare for adults to socialize unless alcohol is involved in some form. In many of the other places I've been, people often get together over food at least once a week, whereas here it seems to occur a only few times a year. I think the majority of my drinking was just a way to make passing time easier. My excuse in the past was that I want to prioritize happiness over longevity, but there is a difference between using alcohol for celebrations, and using it as a tranquilizer. I could stop for weeks or months without issue, but the boredom is what always brought me back. As friends marry off and the culture gets increasingly radical, I've felt increasingly isolated socially. I am not complaining- this has actually pushed me to travel the world and seek connections elsewhere.

I'm late 20s and certainly haven't hit the wall yet. Last month I had the opportunity to travel to a place I've grown fond of over the years. After the first week I looked and felt younger than I had in years. I had a constant desire to socialize (despite being naturally introverted), and enjoyed the rush of exploring new food, new environments, interacting with new people, and practicing a language. I rarely if ever had the desire to drink and I met a lot of guys of similar mindset, interacted with warm women, and I never got bored of any of it. To the guys who think they've hit the wall in their 20s, I'd highly recommend putting yourself in a rewarding environment (if you haven't already tried it) before giving up prematurely. I'm carrying that mindset forward and hope to build a healthy lifestyle in a new environment after a period of further reflection.

I'm not at the same work volume as I was before, though that's out of preference. I used to do the work capacity of the sealfit WODs in my mid 20s, and while I enjoyed it at the time, it's no longer worth it for me. I think the work volume is a bit excessive and the increased cortisol would negate some of the positives. I've developed a lifting routine that doesn't bore me and has the biggest pay off in terms of time spent and results given. My goal isn't to break records (even personal), but maintain my current level while gaining the health (and mental) benefits at minimal time input. My body won't make it in magazines or win awards by any means, but I'm proud of it and that's enough for me. Perhaps the bar is set so low that it's easy to stand out. I am continually improving and consistently getting compliments on my physique despite the extremely low time investment (maybe 1.5 hours/week). My energy and stress levels are also on the way up.

So despite years of neglect, punishment, and bouts of laziness, my body is still able to repair and reach new heights. It is a testament to the resilience of the human body more than anything.

Other factors that may have helped to slow the damage of aging:
  • A near obsessive avoidance of environmental estrogens and phthalates, documented here: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-51922.html
  • Avoidance of topical metals. Some studies suggest excessive Iron is correlated with premature aging. Other metals seem to have a correlation with incidince of parkinsons or alzheimers. I make my own metal-free deodorant and take a metal chelator (curcumin)
  • Intermittent Fasting (IF) to mimic caloric restriction, induce autophagy. I will skip breakfast at least every other day.
 

thoughtgypsy

Kingfisher
Gold Member
A phenomenal resource on anti-aging for men is Rogue Health and Fitness: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/

Has a lot of high level information on autophagy, life extension studies, effects of metals on aging, etc etc. He's blazing a lot of uncharted trails on the subject.

The guy is 60+ and looks better than most guys in their 20s:

Dennis-outdoors-2015.gif
 

NASA Test Pilot

 
Banned
I should have mentioned before that Somatotropin, the fancy term for hGH, is controlled by two hormones released from the hypothalamus, called somatocrinin or Growth-hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH), and somatostatin or Growth-hormone-inhibiting hormone (GHIH). If you want to boost hGH, you need to boost GHRH and suppress GHIH. There are several things that boost GHRH, including the hormone Grehlin, the sex hormones, deep sleep, (where over 50% of your hGH is released), hypoglycemia, vitamin B3, hard exercise.

The types of things that increase GHIH (which you do not want) are hyperglycemia (high blood sugar), glucocorticoids (stress hormones), hGH itself (through negative feedback), and high body fat.

If others have more examples of these, it would be appreciated. Also, if anyone can explain what or if there is a relationship between GHIH and DHT I would like to know. Post it or send me a PM.

The sleep part reminded me about a sign around my 33-34 year mark. Before I was 18 years old I would sleep significantly more than from 18-34. During this time I only needed 4 hours of sleep.

At about the 33-34 year mark this went up to about 6 hours per night (11-5). So I think this may have been a curve. Then again at about 47-48 it went up to 8 hours per night (10-6 or 8-4 in training), which may have been a curve that was a precursor to decreasing training performance. I will look for the next sleep increase to see if it is a precursor to a performance decrease.

The suggestion about fasting got me thinking. This makes sense if hGH is increased during fasting because it would help to preserve your muscle tissue and glycogen stores while using your fat stores instead. This breakdown of fat, which is called lipolysis, releases free fatty acids and glycerol, which are then metabolized to produce energy. Also, Grehlin (relates to the hunger response) boosts GHRH. My issue would then be with all of the physical activity and needing the caloric intake to sustain basic performance. A thought might be in the off season and on a resting day or 12-16 hour intermittent fasts. Lack of caloric intake also temporarily lowers testosterone, but maybe the detoxification (especially from estrogenic compounds) part outweighs this for shorter periods.

Perhaps the hGH would make you relatively more lean as a percentage, and I am focusing more on the recovery side of the equation as it is energetically less expensive to repair a cell than it is to divide and create new cells.

From a dated study in sports medicine they examined (younger) elite athletes and found that male swimmers in the 100M, 200M, and 400M Freestyle events had a mean body fat level of 6.5% plus or minus 1.2 percent while at peak training. I found a less dated study (1993) that related swim performance, body composition and somatotypes (in collegiate athletes at the beginning of the season (not at peak training) indicating 11% body fat. Current information seems to be showing 9-10 % for swimmers and 6-10 % for tri-athletes but I am looking for something more oriented toward science to confirm. Some of the strength development guys indicate that this percentage is generally low. If I am not training two a days for swimming; I combine/rotate 5 activities (surfing, swimming, 2-man sand volleyball, weight training, and dryland training).

I had my body fat measured again (double checked anthropometrically) today by the national team coaching staff and it averaged 8.6%. He believes that his consistency is plus or minus 1-2% and less experienced sports medicine guys maybe 2-3%. In the future I will have it double checked by an experienced person for greater accuracy. The winter surf swell is fading and I may begin another major swim training cycle in mid-April if I do not go back out to sea (sailing).

I am going to put on more lean muscle mass in the first two (three) meso-cycles (a meso-cycle is normally 4-6 weeks) and then work to maintain those strength gains during peak training. I will then measure my swim performance in sets during the early (meso) cycles, mid cycles and late cycles to include taper and compare them to the previous season(s); a season is usually a macro-cycle. I will measure my overall weight and percentage of body fat vs. swimming performance output (in 6 types of intensity/interval/set length categories) during training. It will only be few data points, but I can keep adding to them. What I will be looking for is how the change (increase in this case) in body fat and muscle mass (from previous sessions) affects my performance. As a side note, I eat 6+ times per day during heavy training and by increasing fat intake I will also see if my Testosterone levels increase when my body fat is measured.

Here is a list of actions I have to naturally increase hGH: Others can add to it or chop it down. Input is desired

1. Eat low glycemic carbohydrates (pastas, oatmeal, etc.) before training.
2. Training in shorter, more intense workouts 2-3 times a day.
3. Training using powerful lifts for example squats, dead lifts and power cleans.
4. Eating a balanced diet. Carbs/protein/fat.
5. Eating 5-7 times per day.
6. Using certain aminos throughout the day. Ornithine, arginine.
7. Take naps.
8. Go to bed on a carbohydrate empty stomach as carbohydrates produce insulin, which can help store fat. The body will only produce one at a time (hGH or insulin).
9. Getting enough deep sleep.
10. Intermittent Fasting.
 
I am not advocating religious fundamentalism veganism. Plant based diet is a scientific diet to reverse chronic disease, and prolong life. I think the doctors specifically chose a different name for it than veganism to get away from the religious side of it (animal worship).
 

thoughtgypsy

Kingfisher
Gold Member
NASA Test Pilot said:
The suggestion about fasting got me thinking. This makes sense if hGH is increased during fasting because it would help to preserve your muscle tissue and glycogen stores while using your fat stores instead. This breakdown of fat, which is called lipolysis, releases free fatty acids and glycerol, which are then metabolized to produce energy. Also, Grehlin (relates to the hunger response) boosts GHRH. My issue would then be with all of the physical activity and needing the caloric intake to sustain basic performance. A thought might be in the off season and on a resting day or 12-16 hour intermittent fasts. Lack of caloric intake also temporarily lowers testosterone, but maybe the detoxification (especially from estrogenic compounds) part outweighs this for shorter periods.

Fasting also mimics the effects of Calorie Restriction (CR) through the process of autophagy by the mTOR (cell growth) and AMPK (cell energy) pathways. Most of the research being done on this topic is conducted on simple organisms like C. elegans or mice, though what has been thus far is promising. Primate studies are suggesting clinical significance in humans.

The mitochondrial theory of aging suggests that free radicals (reactive oxygen species) can attach to molecules in the body and introduce cell replication errors over time. By reducing the mTOR activity (cell replication rate), the accumulation of errors is slowed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanistic_target_of_rapamycin#Aging

Lipolysis (through the AMPK pathway) may extend life by slowing the generation of reactive oxygen species, which are a by-product of cellular energy (ATP) production. This may make the clearance of reactive oxygen species from the body easier. Increased AMPK activity is associated with longer life span in other species.
http://roguehealthandfitness.com/activating-ampk-lifespan-extension/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMP-activated_protein_kinase#Maximum_life_span
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis#Mitohormesis

Intermittent fasting stimulates the same lifespan-increasing activity as CR, but is much more convenient. By restricting the feeding window to 8 hours or less in a day, someone can still get meet their caloric needs while gaining the same benefits of CR.

A discussion on the timing of IF for those who remain active: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/an-intermittent-fasting-schedule/
Further discussion on anti-aging strategies: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/the-optimal-anti-aging-strategy/

Perhaps I am wrong, but I'm of the belief that peak performance and longevity are not directly correlated. Our bodies are machines, and when pushed beyond the point of exhaustion, damage can be incurred. Endurance athletes have more efficient hearts (lower resting heartrates) due to the necessity to deliver large volumes of oxygen in short amounts of time. But there is a point where stress is excessive and damage occurs. It is difficult to know where this upper bound is, but there are some studies out there that may give a better idea.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3538475/

Weightlifting seems to be the most efficient method for the body to perform work without inducing cardiovascular damage. It stimulates testosterone production and prevents muscle loss (a reliable indicator of premature death) through the inhibition of myostatin. Exercise activity is a very reliable indicator of longevity: http://roguehealthandfitness.com/exercise-capacity-powerfully-predicts-survival/

NASA Test Pilot said:
Here is a list of actions I have to naturally increase hGH: Others can add to it or chop it down. Input is desired

1. Eat low glycemic carbohydrates (pastas, oatmeal, etc.) before training.
2. Training in shorter, more intense workouts 2-3 times a day.
3. Training using powerful lifts for example squats, dead lifts and power cleans.
4. Eating a balanced diet. Carbs/protein/fat.
5. Eating 5-7 times per day.
6. Using certain aminos throughout the day. Ornithine, arginine.
7. Take naps.
8. Go to bed on a carbohydrate empty stomach as carbohydrates produce insulin, which can help store fat. The body will only produce one at a time (hGH or insulin).
9. Getting enough deep sleep.
10. Intermittent Fasting.

Not sure if these would be directly related to hGH production, but these are other things I practice:

- Eating carbohydrates following intense workouts (to replace muscle glycogen expended during training)
- Eating probiotics (sauerkraut, kimchi, yogurt, or pills) to extract maximum calories from digested food (less fat deposition).
- Eating/drinking polyphenols (green tea or EGCG, coffee, blueberries, grapes[red wine]) to help clear reactive oxygen species. Controversial: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17327526
- Restricting fat content during carbohydrate-laden meals (fat is calorically dense, carbs are glycemically "fast"; combining them raises the volume of fat deposition)
- Sauteing veggies or combining them with fatty food (some vitamins are fat soluble)
- Avoiding dairy, even from grass fed cows (rBGH and BGH are given to dairy cows to produce excessive milk production; but they also exist naturally in high levels in cow's milk even before human intervention)
- Getting a source of omega-3 fatty acids (eggs, fish or fish oil, avocados, flaxseed, walnuts) to reduce inflammation
 
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