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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thomas More" data-source="post: 948528" data-attributes="member: 8402">I think the wall is completely different for men than women. Women's wall is related to their fertility. As fertility begins to decline in their 30's and ends in their 40's, women start looking like a wilting flower, then become like dried up dead flowers as far as their sexual appeal. The exceptions are very few and far between. In comparison, men remain fertile for life, and remain potentially valuable for protection and provision well into old age. So, I don't think men have a wall. At most men have a hill, hence the term over the hill. I've recently had an insight about being in the game or out of the game. So many 30 and 40 year old women are completely unfuckable, because of the way they let themselves go. A fat young woman is a shame, but she can get thirsty, fit guys to fuck her, and they'll honestly like it. However, these women are a final and total wreck by their early 30's. Men are the same way. They let themselves go, until their simply not able to get new pussy. When I see a fat guy with dumpy style, I think he's basically checked out of the game, and is not competing for pussy.Unfortunately, I started out skinny fat, then started developing a dad bod after I got married, then eventually was just plain fat. Since I was married, I didn't see myself as being in the game, and I wasn't trying. Back then, I thought looks didn't matter for men anyway. Of course now I know that fitness is very important to be desired for sex, as opposed to being desired for provisioning. When I started dealing with my failing marriage, I started working out and lost weight, but I've never gotten all the way down to being slim. My recent insight on being in the game tells me that if I really want to be a player, and have the opportunity to get with attractive young women, then I have to actually lose the weight, and put on some serious muscles. I will say that age makes a difference. Even chubby younger guys often have decent looking girlfriends. So, they're in the game simply by virtue of being younger, and not being a total wreck. As an older guy, I feel like I need to be truly fit if I want to be in the game. I've made significant progress from my low point, but I never truly put in the effort it takes to get into the game at my age. So, that's what I'm working on now. I'm going to get truly fit, and truly get in the game as far as competing for the sexual attention of young, attractive women. The thing is, I'm convinced that at 51, if I get in shape, and have an upper middle class persona, with a moderately decent level of job prestige, then I will have young women with daddy issues wanting me to fuck them. So, from this point of view, I let myself go for most of my life, and was never truly in the game. Now I'm making a big play to get into the game, and I believe this is doable. Therefore, I haven't hit the wall at all. As for NTP, with your excellent fitness and attractive lifestyle, you can probably bang attractive girls under 30 up to age 65 or so, and after that point can probably still bang good looking women in their 30's until age 75 or so. You'll have to stay highly fit, and rock some "Most Interesting Man in the World" style, but it appears to me that you've got that all locked down. In fact, these numbers are for hot western women. You can probably do even better in the various poosey paradise locations. Based on this, I'd say a man's wall can potentially be near 80. The one proviso is that a man has to make a higher and higher effort to stay in the game as he ages. For a guy in his 70's, you really need one in 10,000 fitness and style. Fortunately, I think this is actually doable, and that's my long term strategy.</blockquote>

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