Are all friends opportunistic in their friendship?

GibsMeDat

Sparrow
I've found that throughout my life, even my closest friends have forsaken their close friendships with me for their girlfriend, job, new friends, what have you.

Most of them come back eventually but this still remains the fact.

And don't get me wrong, even I am guilty of this myself.

So, are friendships just as much romanticized in Hollywood as romantic relationships are?
 

Pelagius

Robin
I believe all relationships and friendships are always built on some mutual gain/ need - but that gain can be as simple and innocent as wanting to have people to share this life journey with.

How many people do you know like this? You have to really search for them because most people like this have life long friend-groups that outsiders are not invited to.

If you met your life long friends early in the Church and they stayed with the church it is highly improbable they would forsake their friendship for worldly gain and pleasures.

But most people are not raised like this and instead they are raised to the beat of endless personal gain with all of the TV, Music and theatre building the background music towards a crescendo that never appears.
 

kel

Ostrich
Millennials were raised to be ladder climbers - get on honor roll, get that award for this or that, get that scholarship, get that better job, get that 100k follower Twitter account, etc. It sucks, try not to hold it too much against people, but also seek out those who aren't like that and be as honorable towards them as they are towards you.
 
Most people you'll meet in your life are only going to take. Very rarely you'll meet someone who's not like this but it takes being in tough situations to find out if that's who they are. I have life-long friends who I only recently discovered won't be there when the time comes. We share most values and long histories but they don't share the value of sacrifice for others and that's where it counts.

It's probably a cultural problem and I've noticed younger, less pozzed men don't have this problem. So I try very hard to show them what healthy male friendship is like.
 
Being poor made me disassociate from others. There was promise in junior year of high school with Baptist friends, but I felt self-conscious about not having a driver's license and having a crap family background compared to them. It still hurts that I disregarded them and briefly turned to atheism in college. As for college, I made a lot of acquaintances through parties and classes, but it was the same as for divergent upbringings.

I have a best friend from 5th grade with a similar background, and we're still bonded, but it's compromised since he hooked up and had kids with a subpar chick. She even supplanted his mother in his life, which is saying something, because he's an only child who would hang out along with his mom even while I was visiting. He used to be like a quasi-Eric Cartman.

As for my best friend, he and his mom were mooches and would swing by unannounced to my home and other friends. Eventually he took it upon himself to stay with me during summer break in college at my shared apartment. That's where he met the previously mentioned girl; she was basically doing the same thing with a mutual friend. I thought he'd have sense to hit it and quit it, but he stayed with her the whole time. I guess they were both desperate for companionship as they are both low SMV.

A twist of fate is that he is much more successful than I am, and he probably wouldn't have gotten there without piggybacking on me. Despite this, we still bond out of shared history and mutual benefit. We had a falling out for 3 years because I voiced my disapproval of his girl. She would still be a street rat without him and hasn't accomplished anything.
 

FrancisK

Kingfisher
Gold Member
It’s because they know you’ll still be there if it comes down to it, don’t take it personally it’s just human nature....
 

Advorsor

Sparrow
Most people you'll meet in your life are only going to take. Very rarely you'll meet someone who's not like this but it takes being in tough situations to find out if that's who they are. I have life-long friends who I only recently discovered won't be there when the time comes. We share most values and long histories but they don't share the value of sacrifice for others and that's where it counts.

It's probably a cultural problem and I've noticed younger, less pozzed men don't have this problem. So I try very hard to show them what healthy male friendship is like.

I agree with this. The only friends I have are those from being very young who are still near me geographically and trustworthy. IMO, as you progress through life, I don't find it likely that I'll be making many more real friends given what has already been outlined in other posts (people wanting something from you, disingenuous, et cetera).
 

El Draque

Kingfisher
Orthodox
I'm finding it hard to maintain any kind of worthwhile friendships with people I dont live near and see each other IRL at least somewhat regularly. I evaluated a few friendships from years back, and they just seem to have degenerated to Messenger chat pals. Which is all very well, but it superficial and feels like almost a form of Social Media dopamine hits, rather than worthwhile communication. My best friend back home epitomises this. Nice guy, and we chat here and there, but almost always just over Telegram texts, hardly ever even phone calls. It just seems superficial at this point.

My best friend in recent years that i've lived around, has shown himself to be only really interested in a drinking-mate to go on city breaks and chase women with, which was our Modus Operandi in my lost years. Now that i have no interest in that, or the GloboHomo CRT mass rallies that now masquerade as football matches, the friendship is as good as dead.

I'm not that bothered frankly, he always demonstrated a selfishness, even in his near pathological meanness with money, tips would be argued about, meals divvied up to their exact per person cost etc. Its not surprising really. As a side note, i view this kind of meanness as a Red Flag in any setting at this point. Its not out of being short for money either, just pure tightness. People who display similar traits are displaying a self absorbtion that will appear in other areas, in time.

In conclusion, such is the fractualised smoke and mirros nature of modern tech based communication, i believe its very hard to maintain any kind of friendships of value, unless you're spending time IRL together.

These tech-based friendships cant really be maintained by themselves IMHO. I prefered it when people would just email each other, before Messenger apps and Social Media took over, at least you would effectively be writing letters. This one or two sentence messenging seems so inane and teenage, in a way its stunted friendships, at least as it appears to me. Another way that the tech is malign to what was once so natural.
 

WaywardMan

Pigeon
Orthodox Inquirer
In conclusion, such is the fractualised smoke and mirros nature of modern tech based communication, i believe its very hard to maintain any kind of friendships of value, unless you're spending time IRL together.
100% agree with this. My last actual group of friends, whom I knew from our high-school days, slowly became just a group-chat of memes being sent back and forth. Before that time, we had shared a lot of laughter and were always going to each others' places every weekend. We stopped hanging out in person some few years back, and that was the beginning of the slow decline. That is, until we diverged enough in our personal pursuits and fragmented to the point where most of us had no commonality anymore.

Another friend, like OP mentioned, sort of left our 10-year friendship open-ended after getting a new girlfriend. It went from meeting up, to chatting on the phone, to texting, to promises of scheduling future events, to "let's get together sometime this month!", to complete radio silence. Another slow decay of the once-familiar.

Now I do my best to relish in lonesome evenings, free of distractions and what had basically become strangers trying to foist their unsolicited opinions on the rest of the disparate group members. It's a perturbing experience to watch familiar faces twist and turn into strange men, and I know on some level they have felt the same. Perhaps it's just a cope for me-- I don't really know since I've long forgotten the contrast of being surrounded by people who actually care.

Though I don't necessarily agree that all relationships are opportunistic in nature, honest and genuine friends are hard to come by these days. Especially when, like myself, you've locked yourself in confinement behind the screens and feel like you need to battle to reclaim the key.

To provide something for the thread besides a blog-post: as one of my favorite quotes reads, "No one is a friend to the man with a cross."
 
The only friends I have are those from being very young who are still near me geographically and trustworthy. IMO, as you progress through life, I don't find it likely that I'll be making many more real friends given what has already been outlined in other posts (people wanting something from you, disingenuous, et cetera).
That is the key point, I think, that friends have to be geographically close and remain close. Once they start to go somewhere else they will have a different life that does not include you very much.

I once talked to a 72 year old man who lived in the same village all his life. I asked him "You must have a lot of your old friends still around here". He replied that "No actually, most left to other parts of the country, we did not keep in touch". Thus, even if you stay in the same village for all your life of 72 years, if your friends leave then the net result is the same as if you yourself had left.

My own belief is we are born alone, we live mostly alone, and we will die alone, so I am under no illusion over friendship, woman or even parents.
 

4600_fan

Pigeon
Orthodox
Friendship and money; oil and water.

I've never had a true, genuine, honest-to-goodness friend. They all come and go depending on their needs.
I'm somewhat the same way. I tend to form close more intense friendships with people when I develop an interest in something and then the whole relationship becomes about that. When the interest changes or there is a conflict of interest, the relationship sometimes suffers a bit. I wouldn't say I've lost friends, but I've gone from "besties" to "mates" (to borrow a Britishism as my American dialect lacks the distinction). One of my good buddies I was in the Uniate church with, the fake Orthodox thing in union with Rome, and we developed a strong connection over our mutural hatred of the Roman church (despite being in union with it, I have no f'in idea... it's a weird uniate thing). Then I joined the Orthodox Church and I really had significantly less to talk about anymore. It was weird.

In fact, my best friends, the real ones, tend to be with people I'm not 100% in ideological/religious harmony with, who I just enjoy for their friendship alone. Keeping in touch online helps, as I've moved around a lot.
 

magaman

Woodpecker
The last group of friends that I had in my adult life (if you want to call them that, they were more "drinking buddies") was at a job I worked at for a while around a year and a half ago. Me and the other four guys would go out to the bars and occasionally back to their place to continue drinking. We had some good times and I still keep in touch with two of them but it's been a while since we hung out. We all have different jobs now and you know, life happens. The other two, them and I don't get along so much anymore, thanks to political drama with one and just general drama with the other guy.

Other than that, most of my adult life so far (I'm 28) has just consisted of work/school buddies and meeting up on a very sporadic basis with some high school friends. I really only have one consistent friend and that's my best friend that I met when we were in 8th grade and we still hang out together on a regular basis and talk almost every day. Pretty much all the other friends I have though, I don't keep up with nearly as much and most are more like contacts now rather than actual friends. Many from the past have went their separate ways and I guess it wasn't really one side that drifted, it was sort of both sides that drifted away from each other over time. I guess it tends to happen that way lot. There are a lot though that if I messaged them then I could probably still meet up with them and catch up, providing either of us have the time.

The last time before the bar scene days that I had anything resembling some sort of consistent clique, I was basically still a kid. I mean this was when I was like 16-18 years old and there was a lot of change in me during those years and even more so after those years, more than you would think. I'm basically almost a different person now from those days and after the advent of all the political and world affairs that have happened in the past year, I feel as though I'm changing once again from a conservative to who knows what. Just my own man I guess, I can't identify with the conservatives anymore, definitely not a liberal, libertarian, etc.. I guess I could identify as a Christian, although I'm not a very good one and trying to base an outward personality/gimmick on that wouldn't be a bad thing but 99% of people would get tired of hearing about Christian stuff quickly, even religious people. They would simply assume I'm trying to be "holier than thou", although we here know that would not the case.

So all that being said, for the most part, I'm an island with not many groups, cliques or communities to identify with and join. Although for the most part, I enjoy the solitude.
 

Bamboozler

Pigeon
Well, I don't mean to be rude, but don't you think it'd be weird to say at least if your friend still valued the raltionship with you above everything else ? Even his family ? You cannot monopolize all his relationships, that's just selfish.

And what do you mean by forsaken? Life moves on - priorities, your point of view, convictions and many others keep changing. The life-long bossom buddies, who hang out with each other all the time is probably just a Hollywood meme. I'm not saying there's no friendship, but your true friend's someone who knows you well and still enjoys your company and at the same time stays brutally honest with you. It work both ways.

If your 'friends' had stabbed you in the back or failed in the hour of the greatest need then that's a different story.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Gold Member
Well, I don't mean to be rude, but don't you think it'd be weird to say at least if your friend still valued the raltionship with you above everything else ? Even his family ? You cannot monopolize all his relationships, that's just selfish.
It bloody is. The rift that separated my mother from me had to do with her trying to maintain relationships with exes of mine. I found it weird and so did my exes. She didn't/couldn't see anything wrong with it so I told her to buzz off after she got too palsy with an ex that was a horrible drunk.

She still keeps in touch with her weird friends from high school. I've moved on and frankly want nothing to do with the godless heathens I went to school and college with.
 

Radoste

Sparrow
Many individuals that I know—especially Catholics—pride themselves in being able to live “virtuous” lives. They go to mass, they say their prayers. They understand the ritual of religion as something important to live both outwardly and inwardly. They understand that meal time is sacred. They look at marriage as a participation in the divine life. They cross themselves in all humility and they are content to live in the fullness of truth. I also know many non-Catholics who pride themselves in their quest for the mature masculinity. They engage in risk; they uphold their honour; they go forth in courage; and they avoid vice.

And yet, why do so many of these individuals treat friendship in the same disorganized and chaotic fashion as the moderns they so wish to dissociate from? They go about friendships promiscuously, superficially, and expect the friendship to grow “organically.” They do not direct friendships like a gardener tending to his garden and instead expect only “fun” and “entertainment” or “shared interest” to define what it means to be friends. Even those who purport to be friends on spiritual terms seek out only common external goals: going to mass together, discussing Evola together, etc. If one merely replaces these activities and topics with “rallies” and “Marx” then one can see why there is no qualitative difference between “traditional” friendships and “modern” ones. The difference is only topical.​
tl;dr: friendship requires depth and rhythm, don't contaminate friendship with utilitarianism
 
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