Are dinosaurs a hoax?

[Replicant_Gyr]

That's what I thought too, that ancient and medieval Europeans and Chinese had stumbled upon dinosaur and other megafauna bones and that's where legends of dragons and other giant monsters come from. I've heard this idea several times so I'd always assumed there was some record of such bones having been found, but maybe it's true as others are saying here that there's no known record of this actually happening at any time before the 19th century.

I also heard a theory once that legends about humanoid monsters like goblins and trolls are ancient memories of the Neanderthals, passed down through the generations. Not sure how likely that is though, since I think the very last Neanderthals died out over 25,000 years ago.

I agree and delved a bit deeper. Discoveries move in trends coupled with technology. It was not trendy or feasible to go dig up remains in ancient times, as there were more pressing needs and considerations. The video is fundamentally flawed: there is a known record of fossil collecting prior to the 19th century.

In my quick internet dive I learned:
- In 1677, Robert Plot is credited with discovering the first dinosaur bone, but his best guess as to what it belonged to was a giant human.
- Chinese texts refer to dragon bones and dragons are a large part of Chinese culture and have been for centuries.
- Herodotus dabbled in fossil collecting of marine organisms.
- Leonardo Da Vinci studied fossilized shellfish and hypothesizes as to why shellfish fossils are found on mountains.

Seemingly delayed periods of discovery do not indicate non-existence:
-Eqyptian Mummies weren't discovered until the 17th century.
-Europe's discovery of the Americas required the advancement of ships and navigation.
-Viruses discovered in 1892 required filtering technology.
-Paleontology required desire, interest, rewards, and funding for excavation.

@JiggyLordJr is correct when he says that you don't just stumble on these remains. They must be actively scouted for, analyzed, chiseled and handled properly. But more importantly, there must be a good reason to go labor in the sediments and collect. Profit was, and still is, key in the dinosaur rush. To this day, legal battles are fought over found fossils. Who owns the land vs who owns below the surface. Mineral rights vs fossil rights. Multi-million dollar cases are fought over the ownership of these remains.

Lastly, the dinosaur industry surely has flaws. Profiteering, plenty of extrapolation with a great deal of imagination and marketing.
Yet, the existence of the dinosaur is worth acknowledging.

 

[Hanibal]

Pretty much all dino bones - were found by two men. There are no dino bones found - just fossils - which is basically stone. Someone pretends they can cut the bone from the stone and then build a universe of bizarre creatures. All from some stones. In my view - it is nonsense - and dinos never existed. See the article here on the Bone Wars - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_Wars

 

[bucky]

Pretty much all dino bones - were found by two men. There are no dino bones found - just fossils - which is basically stone. Someone pretends they can cut the bone from the stone and then build a universe of bizarre creatures. All from some stones. In my view - it is nonsense - and dinos never existed. See the article here on the Bone Wars - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_Wars

Interesting article on the two American Dinosaur men, but Wikipedia also has a huge list of Asian dinosaurs:

List of Asian dinosaurs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Justin C]

Talk about a poorly worded poll title!

Thread title: Are dinosaurs a hoax?
Poll title: Did dinos walk the earth?

I'm sure some votes are errors because of that discrepancy

 

[DanielH]

https://www.fieldmuseum.org/blog/sue-t-rex

Evolution can be perverted by secular people but there is nothing but God to be found in it once reason is allowed back in.

“Then you do admit, Professor Darwin, that there is a higher power behind evolution?”

"Certainly, I admit it; I am compelled to do so, because evolution has always gone onward and upward, from lower to higher forms of life. That could not be chance; it is unscientific to postulate such an hypothesis, because chance never moves in one direction."

If you concede evolution then you would have to believe that Christ, God Himself, is descended from bacterial sludge, fish, monkeys, and that his genealogy which starts at God, then Adam, is a lie or incomplete, and that the creation of man was not as written, but instead more like a monolith event from "2021: A Space Odyssey" or even that humans just don't have souls and are no different from any creature on Earth besides our intelligence. Depending on the intent I'd say that is blasphemy.

Also here's something interesting. In Texas, fossilized human and dinosaur footprints were found together with fossil densities indicating the appropriate weights of a human and a dinosaur made each print. https://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/paleontological/footprints/

 

[Beaker]

If you concede evolution then you would have to believe that Christ, God Himself, is descended from bacterial sludge, fish, monkeys, and that his genealogy which starts at God, then Adam, is a lie or incomplete, and that the creation of man was not as written, but instead more like a monolith event from "2021: A Space Odyssey" or even that humans just don't have souls and are no different from any creature on Earth besides our intelligence. Depending on the intent I'd say that is blasphemy.

Also here's something interesting. In Texas, fossilized human and dinosaur footprints were found together with fossil densities indicating the appropriate weights of a human and a dinosaur made each print. https://www.genesispark.com/exhibits/evidence/paleontological/footprints/

God has always existed and He chose to become man out of the love for His creation. Man is then not descended from lower forms of life anymore but now one with his creator. God is Logos and man has proven to be capable of Logos - this Divine essence supersedes any material form here on earth.

 

[bozzano]

I tuned in to this local TV program the other day. They were talking about a recent dinosaur fossil that has been discovered in the area. To my surprise, they actually showed the fossil. It looked like chicken bones. The bone's surface looked too smooth to pass for something that has been buried for millions of years.

Paleontology is a bullshit science. If dinosaurs existed, no one knows what they really looked like. Paleontologists rely on assumptions and wild guesses to build their theory. They make assumptions based on radiocarbon dating and noticeable marks on the fragments. Both methods are not known for high accuracy.

 

[Pilgrim]

This is a classic misdirection deep state psyop, like flat earth and nukes are fake. Incidentally, the guy pushing it here, Eric Dubay is also one of the main flat earth pushers, and most likely a fed.

I've long thought that Flat Earth was a psyop to discredit the "Truther" community.

And I can well believe that Dubay is a Fed, though I haven't come across any solid proof that he is.

They will find some minor counterintuitive details about nukes, flat earth or dinosaurs that the average layman can't corroborate 100% and use this to get you to throw the baby with the bathwater.

Yes. I see some strange theories doing the rounds now about viruses and so forth, and wonder whether these are part of the same kind of psyop. More people are realising that the Corona-pandemic is a hoax and are beginning to dig deeper into the truth, and so the intelligence agencies are leading them astray with wild ideas in order to discredit them in the eyes of the general population.

The big push came around the time Obama was president, back when high speed internet became commonplace and Youtube was uncensorced and its algorithms not fixed. More and more people were getting red pilled on 9/11 and other events.

Exactly. I remember it well: the CIA-media were trying to terrify the public by reporting mass killing events almost every week, from Sandy Hook to the Boston Marathon to the Isla Vista and WDBJ7 nonsense and so on and so forth, and YouTubers were exposing these things as hoaxes.

Then in the middle of it, Obongo got up and gave a speech in which he explicitly mentioned "Flat Earth". And suddenly, the "Flat Earth" movement (which had formerly been completely insignificant) took off.

It reeked of a deep state operation.

 

[NickK]

God has always existed and He chose to become man out of the love for His creation. Man is then not descended from lower forms of life anymore but now one with his creator. God is Logos and man has proven to be capable of Logos - this Divine essence supersedes any material form here on earth.

That's a completely made up "theology".

Man has never descended from lower forms of life. He was taken from the earth and God blew His Spirit into him.
Man then chose to separate himself from God and became a beast. We are not worthy of Him at all.
God's plan B was to separate for himself a small people to preserve His covenant and to produce a woman worthy to receive Logos in Her womb.

This is the Church's revealed truth.

 

[DanielH]

That's a completely made up "theology".

Man has never descended from lower forms of life. He was taken from the earth and God blew His Spirit into him.
Man then chose to separate himself from God and became a beast. We are not worthy of Him at all.
God's plan B was to separate for himself a small people to preserve His covenant and to produce a woman worthy to receive Logos in Her womb.

This is the Church's revealed truth.

For some reason people presuppose evolution to be correct and then work backwards to make God fit into that. We should instead presuppose that the Bible and the Church fathers are correct and then work from there.

 

[PastaSsempa]

Wow, didn't expect so much backlash. Seems the vocal members here didn't connect the dots that the greatest lies were invented or popularized in the 19th century. A summary:

- dinosaurs
- Advent "Christianity"
- Schofield Bible
- evolution theory
- germ theory
- Communism
- legalization of Freemasonry
- villification of monarchs (later destruction of monarchy)
- abortion (killing of newborns was discussed among medical practitioners with the reasons of them being a "lump of flesh")
- destruction of visible hierarchy
- feminism
- denationalization
- Jews did nothing wrong
- industrialization
- electricity

Should I list more? All these factors destroyed our understanding of reality, dehumanized us, abandoned us from our Faith, disconnected us from the soil we were made of.

We had dinosaur-like creatures in the past, likely today in other parts of the world (Marco Polo wrote about it). But the way it is shown is entirely made up. The ancient Greeks and Romans were master diggers, given the gigantic structures they could build. You all truly believe they didn't find and preserve anything when digging holes for their structures? The problem with the dinosaur narrative is that, according to evolutionary theory, dinosaurs existed before mankind which entirely contradicts the account of Genesis in which land animals and man were created on the 6th day (yom). If the 6th yom passed with almost all land animals dying from meteor showers, then mankind couldn't exist either.

You can go by the rule of thumb every major idea popularized (like Heliocentricism, Newtonian physics, Pasteurian medicine etc.) post Reformation time is of the devil, father of all lies. Since the Catholic Church lost its grip on Europe ... well, you see how it looks like now.

 

[Beaker]

That's a completely made up "theology".

Man has never descended from lower forms of life. He was taken from the earth and God blew His Spirit into him.
Man then chose to separate himself from God and became a beast. We are not worthy of Him at all.
God's plan B was to separate for himself a small people to preserve His covenant and to produce a woman worthy to receive Logos in Her womb.

This is the Church's revealed truth.

It's is not an idea of my own, it's is the concept of the Trinity in the Catholic Church. God works through man through the Holy Spirit and no man had the amount of Logos that Christ did. That amount of power can only be explained as Jesus Christ being both man and God, and He was the sacrificial Lamb for all to see the truth: to save mankind from being a lower form of life.

Evolution doesn't matter, the knowledge of it is philosophically inconsequential. Darwin knew that there was a creator but was too hard-hearted to put the dots together and turned scientific discovery into rebellion, or that's how those that followed him interpreted the findings.

There is no inherent clash between science and Christianity, I tell you this as both a Catholic and a scientist. Men created the clash out of their rebellious spirit, to justify doing immoral things. It’s always the same story.

 

[Wutang]

St. Augustine wrote a bit about Creation. He seemed to have believed that human history was only about 6000 years long the same way creationists do but he wasn't dogmatic about it and was open that he could be wrong. He didn't seem to be troubled by the notion that Genesis could be allegorical. Given that he is one of the most important figures for determining what was orthodoxy within the faith, I don't think it stands that a non-literal interpretation of Genesis is contrary to faith. I believe the Catholic church also officially recognizes this.

THE CONTEMPORARY RELEVANCE OF AUGUSTINE

3. .Augustine claims that we ought to be willing to change our minds about the interpretation of Genesis 1-3,
particularly as new information comes to light.

Consistent with the claim that Genesis 1-3 is difficult and obscure, Augustine repeatedly urges restraint, flexibility, openness to new interpretations, and openness to new knowledge that may provide insight into the text. He says that "in matters that are obscure and far beyond our vision ... we should not rush in headlong and so firmly take our stand on one side that, if further progress in the search of truth justly undermines this position, we too fall with it. That would be to battle not for the teaching of Holy Scripture but for our own, wishing its teaching to conform to ours, whereas we ought to wish ours to conform to that of Sacred Scripture" (p. 41).

 

[Caduceus]

The important question is not if dinosaurs are fake.
The real important question is whether dragons were actually real.

Almost every single major culture on earth has dragon myths going back to antiquity.
You find these myths and similiar stories across cultures in south america, africa, europe and asia.

One of the most famous being that of Saint George and the Dragon.
If we follow the history of dragon myths across time, the last (real) dragons in europe were killed off between the years 1200 and 1500 in late medieval times by both saints & knights on horses.

 

[MilvianForce]

Yep, I'm positive they existed. This whole "Hurrr durrr no God, evolution only broooo" is just idiotic. To me God does exist, and I do believe in dinosaurs being around at some point. For some reason most people think God and evolution cannot be side by side. Here's a thought, evolution is designed by God and a cog in the mystery we call the universe.

Mathematics, Sciences, Philosophy and many other areas of study are the keys which God has given us to open the plethora of locks he has placed in the universe. It's a fun puzzle and keeps mankind busy. Think about it, if you know how to put together all of those "1000 + pieces" puzzles together off the bat what fun would they be? Sure they can be frustrating but as you make progress it's nothing but a good feeling.

 

[Pilgrim]

The behemoth described by God in the book of Job sounds very much like a sauropod dinosaur.

 

[typtre]

I've long thought that Flat Earth was a psyop to discredit the "Truther" community.

And I can well believe that Dubay is a Fed, though I haven't come across any solid proof that he is.



Yes. I see some strange theories doing the rounds now about viruses and so forth, and wonder whether these are part of the same kind of psyop. More people are realising that the Corona-pandemic is a hoax and are beginning to dig deeper into the truth, and so the intelligence agencies are leading them astray with wild ideas in order to discredit them in the eyes of the general population.



Exactly. I remember it well: the CIA-media were trying to terrify the public by reporting mass killing events almost every week, from Sandy Hook to the Boston Marathon to the Isla Vista and WDBJ7 nonsense and so on and so forth, and YouTubers were exposing these things as hoaxes.

Then in the middle of it, Obongo got up and gave a speech in which he explicitly mentioned "Flat Earth". And suddenly, the "Flat Earth" movement (which had formerly been completely insignificant) took off.

It reeked of a deep state operation.

Obama mentioning FE was a psyop in itself. It was taking off and the powers that be needed to disarm the thought.

22. Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2/2)

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thenarrowgateweb.com

Why would Obama and John Kerry repeatedly bring up the Flat Earth in their speeches if there wasn’t something to it? It seems rather odd as you will see…

So why bring up the Flat Earth Society repeatedly?

Well, there are three main reasons:

1. Ridicule;
2. To vilify “Flat Earthers” (aka “climate change deniers“) among the general public – notice people like Bill Nye suggesting that we should imprison climate deniers… so basically anyone who doesn’t bow down to authority; and
3. Strategically.

Eric Dubay is probably a gatekeeper. The earth is most definitely flat. Basic geometry is enough to understand this. It is not, however, that round false flag disc They keep pushing around. It is just there to ridicule and "debunk".

-----------------------

I believe dinosaurs as we know them are fake, but like this guy above posting dragons... Who knows?
The bible has some weird shit in it and since the earth is not a globe, everything is possible until the Vatican is raided.

 

[PastaSsempa]

Eric Dubay is probably a gatekeeper. The earth is most definitely flat. Basic geometry is enough to understand this. It is not, however, that round false flag disc They keep pushing around. It is just there to ridicule and "debunk".

I can't say if Eric Dubay is a gatekeeper, but what I hate about him is that he entirely denounces Christendom as allegorical fairytale, with the implication you can be as God. He seems New Age to me with his religious ideas, but I believe his theories about the Flat Earth and dinosaurs. I suspect people can be gatekeepers with or without their knowing, and for me he is the latter. What I usually see about men in the truther scene is either that they are theologically dishonest or dishonest about race-realism. There is a hatred for (traditional) Christianity or eugenics, sometimes both. Those who hold both ideas dear usually disappear, being shadowbanned and censored like nobody else.

For me it is not necessarily important to believe if the Earth is a globe or disc, though the latter makes a lot more sense. What is important is the belief if our planet is the only one and the universe is not as infinite and ever-expanding as modern astronomists would like us to believe. Believing that our planet is just a tiny insignificant one in the infinite vaccum space of rocks and stardust is quite derpressing. We have to go into etymology. For example, what does "universe" even mean? It is of Latin origin and means "one spoken sentence", which clearly refers that our material world is God-breathed with one sentence as in Genesis 1. In this account there is only our known space mentioned, nothing else. The hosts of heaven are referred to as stars, sun, and moon, no material planets mentioned.

Further on text. If you believe our planet, mankind is nothing special and that there could be other life-forms on another planet, wouldn't that make God a liar in creating us in His image? Wouldn't that make Him a deceiver not even revealing that somebody could exist outside of our universe (Earth)? As a child I could never believe such a thing nor would it make sense to me today.

 

[typtre]

I can't say if Eric Dubay is a gatekeeper, but what I hate about him is that he entirely denounces Christendom as allegorical fairytale, with the implication you can be as God. He seems New Age to me with his religious ideas, but I believe his theories about the Flat Earth and dinosaurs. I suspect people can be gatekeepers with or without their knowing, and for me he is the latter. What I usually see about men in the truther scene is either that they are theologically dishonest or dishonest about race-realism. There is a hatred for (traditional) Christianity or eugenics, sometimes both.

Yes, I am inclined to believe this as well.
I have not looked into Dubay too much myself because, while my FE journey started with him, I found him to be misleading in general.

Those who hold both ideas dear usually disappear, being shadowbanned and censored like nobody else.

The war is real. This lead me to buy a Bible.

For me it is not necessarily important to believe if the Earth is a globe or disc, though the latter makes a lot more sense. What is important is the belief if our planet is the only one and the universe is not as infinite and ever-expanding as modern astronomists would like us to believe. Believing that our planet is just a tiny insignificant one in the infinite vaccum space of rocks and stardust is quite derpressing. We have to go into etymology. For example, what does "universe" even mean? It is of Latin origin and means "one spoken sentence", which clearly refers that our material world is God-breathed with one sentence as in Genesis 1. In this account there is only our known space mentioned, nothing else. The hosts of heaven are referred to as stars, sun, and moon, no material planets mentioned.

Further on text. If you believe our planet, mankind is nothing special and that there could be other life-forms on another planet, wouldn't that make God a liar in creating us in His image? Wouldn't that make Him a deceiver not even revealing that somebody could exist outside of our universe (Earth)? As a child I could never believe such a thing nor would it make sense to me today.

Novus Ordo Seclorum. New Secular Order.
It is very important for people to believe in the Globe because it effectively removes God from our lives. If there is a God how can He care about this planet in one of billions and billions of trillions?

And also, poooff a shitty comet from the infinite void can destroy us like the dinosaurs so we need to fund Space Agencies.

 

[Aurini]

For some reason people presuppose evolution to be correct and then work backwards to make God fit into that. We should instead presuppose that the Bible and the Church fathers are correct and then work from there.

From Saint Augustine, speculating upon how life emerged based upon his inspired reading of Genesis (link to the blog quoting this)

In the beginning were created only the germs or causes of the forms of life, which were afterwards to be developed in gradual course.’

The Bible doesn't mention irrational numbers, which are a shocking revelation on the nature of reality unto themselves, but it fits with the existence of irrational numbers - in fact, much of the old testaments apparent moral contradictions make so much more sen with them - even though particular statements within the Bible appear to claim that Pi is equal to 3.

"And he [Hiram] made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...."
— First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26

It ain't a science manual. I find the evidence for evolution to be powerful and compelling, though the picture isn't as complete as a High School textbook might claim, and I'm certain that there are vested interests within the scientific community who over-emphasize some evidence, and subtly undermine and cover up other evidence. In other words, I'm pretty sure that the broad strokes of evolution are true, but that the particulars need to be taken with a grain of salt. Furthermore, I find compelling evidence of God's existence within evolution. It affirms the two ontological certitudes - pain and meaning. Without meaning as a 'pull' and pain as a 'push', there would be no adaption.

Incidentally, I don't buy into "Cogito ergo sum"; I see no evidence that I actually exist, I only see evidence that I ascribe meaning and manifest reality through that, while avoiding pain. And those two things, meaning and pain, are not within my ability to manifest; they are more primordial than the self which cogitates.

Another good article I was linked to, "How to be an Independent Thinker" (you might get a warning, but I'm pretty sure the site is fine). In it he notes that fastidiousness about truth is an important factor in being an independent thinker. It's the lack of fastidiousness that allows people to get 'trapped' into conspiracy theories. The UFO claims really drive me up the wall. At the core, a UFO is just an unidentified flying object, according to the observer. Which is a big "So what?" I barely passed my aircraft recognition course in the army. I know next to nothing about what sort of lights they have, or what satellites are going overhead. Or so I think until I talk to somebody who claims to have seen a UFO. I had a friend go full-conspiracy on me because he saw a satellite one night, and he considered it proof that the Black Knight had gone past. Yet this friend...

1. Thought satellites couldn't travel North/South around the globe.
2. Thought that his eyeballs were precise enough to declare this object to be going precisely /South.
3. Had never heard of pulsars.
4. Had never heard of the Landsat satellites, nor did he know that the data is freely available online.
5. Had no idea how to pick up the 'alien radio signals' that the alleged Black Knight is broadcasting.

I've been looking into UFOs and cryptids ever since I was a little kid. For the record, I'm various levels of confident on the following statements:

1. Nessie is an undiscovered species of eel.
2. Something large is in Lake Champlain.
3. Ogopogo is just a 'nature god' of Native American legend, not an animal.
4. Bigfoot might exist, is sapient if he does, doesn't completely obey what we consider physical laws, and may be responsible for the disappearances in State Parks and wilderness areas - possible nephilim?

But with UFOs - I've been looking and looking and looking, and I've never seen an ounce of evidence that they exist. Every single times I've dug into the UFO thing:

1. Obvious profile of a spy satellite, or other secret technology, that was extremely weird at the time, but has since been declassified: the cover up usually proves this (that is, the person/department in particular which covers it up would have been the people testing this now-declassified information).
2. Second and third hand reports from a small town newspaper, that either match people freaking out over barn owls, or are so utterly inconsistent that they should be dismissed as "Big Fish" stories.
3. Obvious explanations for '"the edge of perception" data - glowing lights that are nothing more than a heat signature of a jumbo jet, something moving in the distance in the same manner a child's helium balloon would move, et cetera.
4. Insufficient data - nothing but one or two people claiming something with no physical proof.
5. Obvious hoaxes.

If you're going to dismiss Dinosaurs as a conspiracy theory, it's incumbent upon you to study the evidence in depth and point to the parts where you think it's flawed. Honestly, if people put the energy into doing that, we'd be discovering so many new things through amateur paleontologists - as opposed to simply confirming the bias that science is 'lying' about things, or affirming the false belief that science and faith are somehow at odds with one another.

Incidentally, regarding the mythology of dragons - I heard through Jordan Peterson that chimpanzees have three distinct warning calls. One for 'bird predator', one for 'land predator with claws', and another for 'snake predator'. It's very interesting that the dragon is a construct of all three types of predators. Our understanding of morality and meaning is consistent with our biology. For example of this, look to communion. How do we participate in the divine and become children of God? Through eating and drinking, an act which is both intimate and communally performed. Or, the root of the word sin - missing the mark. We're a species who evolved to use stones, arrows, and spears - throwing weapons - to kill our prey at a distance. And our word for moral error derives from failing to kill our prey.

To paraphrase Aquinas, if reason and faith are in disagreement, at least one of them is wrong.