Are most married couples unhappy?

bucky

Ostrich
Only get married if you both want kids. And you have a prenup. And you have a backup plan when she gets the prenup voided.

People above were complaining about comparing the priest trials to what they go through in marriage hell.

If you've ever been stuck in a dead bedroom for any length of time you'll realize how much a woman can literally have you by the balls with no way out especially you're a man with a healthy libido. It's hell...especially if you are a decent guy who refuses to cheat.

Modern career women on BC and with permanent access to Chads on their cell phones hold all the cards in the sexual game. Truly the only way to win is to not get married and not give a crap about any of them. Maybe you'll get lucky but she'll always have the upper hand in todays world.

I agree with your last paragraph, but obviously don't marry a modern career woman. I thought that was a given, at least here at RVF.

I managed to divorce my first wife without a prenup and "only" gave her my car and almost all of my stuff and my money. It was relatively cheap and I knew I could recover from it financially. In my opinion, marrying a devout Catholic who takes the idea that she only gets one marriage seriously is better than a prenup, but I don't know how reliable that advice is with most American Catholics. My wife is from Latin America, where they seem to play by the (Catholic) rules much more literally.
 

Maecenas

Sparrow
I never said having a wife is always worse than prison and torture. I'm pointing out that there's a different pain that comes from being betrayed by someone you love and trust. By being married, your success and failure is no longer reliant upon just you alone. Sometimes, you can do everything right, but it amounts to nothing if the result is dependent on two people succeeding together. If one is weak and falters, you both fail.

A priest by himself didn't enter a covenant with a woman. He relies on GOD alone and GOD never fails. He avoids true betrayal and pain by avoiding love from a woman and knowing what love is with children. I would fall on my sword a hundred times before I let anyone hurt my children, and so would any other good father.

My current wife didn't understand a different level of love until she had her/our own child. When you love that deeply, then have it destroyed or damaged when you're powerless to do anything about it is to know a different kind of pain that someone who never had kids can experience.

I'm closer to 50 than I am to 40. Not that it matters. I have raised 5 kids in some capacity throughout my life. One successfully all the way through to adulthood, one in progress and the other three were kept from me, even though they also wanted to have me in their lives. We were not allowed that option. I learned that after we were kept apart that their lives were train wrecks. I ALWAYS had a great relationship with my kids.

Something a young buck like yourself won't understand is that being hurt by someone who means nothing to you is easier to deal with than being backstabbed by the person you're married to, or someone you trusted deeply. My case was very extreme and I rarely meet someone who has endured the kind of betrayal and destruction I have encountered.

I have been imprisoned by those (plural) who I trusted that gave false testimony and I had to fight for my innocence and won.

I have witnessed physical, sexual and mental abuse through different periods in my lifetime. I've seen people I loved hurt by those that are supposed to nurture them and was powerless to do anything about it.

Men, by nature, have a calling to be warriors. In isolation, the only person who can let you down is you. GOD doesn't always shield us from trouble. He's there to give us strength when it

Am I angry? No. I got over it. I'm very in control of my emotions. In person, people find me a cheerful fellow, pleasant to talk with and very relatable. People, both men and women, naturally open up to me about very private things. People trust me because I am a trustworthy person and I am a keeper of many secrets from many people. They know I won't break their trust.

Am I a little bitter? Maybe.
Am I arrogant? No. I just speak on topics I have extensive knowledge about. I keep quiet when I don't know the topic very well.
Am I honest, and a straight shooter? You betcha!

Do you remember the movie Braveheart? William Wallace had resolve. He endured tragedy and lost many friends. The moment he felt truly devastated was when Robert The Bruce betrayed him on the battlefield. It cut him so deep, he was paralyzed and he surrendered to death, even though he had a knife to Robert's throat. He was only saved by Amish who rushed him off the battlefield.

Being hurt by someone you trusted is different and always worse than being hurt by someone who means nothing to you. If given the choice, William Wallace would prefer death by the enemy rather than betrayal by a trusted friend.

RK

You just emotionally barfed on me dude and now I feel gross. You are taking your life way too seriously and you live your life with a heavy heart, I don’t care if you are “warm” with people or if people share secrets with you (why are they sharing secrets with you by the way??? Why do secrets matter???) you can put up that facade all you want but at the end of the day your mentality and outlook on life says it all. I’m what we would consider a young guy here and you’re older. Do I feel inspired and invigorated after talking with you? Nope. And what’s worse is your using intellectual arguments to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about

edit: people shouldn’t be “opening up” with each other about pain and “secrets”. That’s just enmeshment. If people are “opening up” with you that’s cause they can sense you’re on the same victim mentality and they’ll get validation

I stand by what I said, you’re arrogant, and you’re full of yourself. We’ve found the reason why marriage is painful to you, it’s exhausting to be around such a negative mindset. Sex is an act of celebration. If you’re bitter what’s there to celebrate?
 
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bucky

Ostrich
You just emotionally barfed on me dude and now I feel gross. You are taking your life way too seriously and you live your life with a heavy heart, I don’t care if you are “warm” with people or if people share secrets with you (why are they sharing secrets with you by the way??? Why do secrets matter???) you can put up that facade all you want but at the end of the day your mentality and outlook on life says it all. I’m what we would consider a young guy here and you’re older. Do I feel inspired and invigorated after talking with you? Nope. And what’s worse is your using intellectual arguments to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about

Go easy on him and guys like him. You've never been there and have no idea how bad a bad marriage and the subsequent divorce are, although maybe the bitterness and despair you see in this thread gives you some idea. At the same time, don't let guys like him discourage you. Wanting a good marriage and a happy family is righteous. I'm pulling it off so far and if I can do it, pretty much anyone can, if it's God's will. Or maybe it's God's will in your case that you suffer and you end up in the same boat as these blackpilled guys. Who knows. You have to accept that possibility too.

Still, I'd say find the best girl you can and get married. It's the best thing in the world if it works out and the chance at it is worth taking the risk.
 
Most married couples are victims to modernity and the curses of. They feel how society tells them to feel. Is the correlation of porn and the rise of cuckolding a phenomenon? No it's what society is telling couples is normal and that the pleasures of this world are all that one should seek for themselves. That the highest form of enlightenment is self, and all should strive to bring the utmost pleasures of the world to the self.
 

Maecenas

Sparrow
You've never been there and have no idea how bad a bad marriage and the subsequent divorce are

you know how we talk about how women can get away with certain behaviours just cause they’re women? Well let it be said there’s certain behaviours older people can get away just cause they’re older

edit: someone who’s older and who’s been around the block should be setting an example for younger folks for how to live with a light heart. It’s a stupid example but think of dumbledore from Harry Potter. But nope, roadkill likes it when people feel bitter and resigned because that validates his own mentality and outlook on life, and that’s why I’m getting downvoted by Thomas more, guess he’s in that group too
 
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you know how we talk about how women can get away with certain behaviours just cause they’re women? Well let it be said there’s certain behaviours older people can get away just cause they’re older

edit: someone who’s older and who’s been around the block should be setting an example for younger folks for how to live with a light heart. It’s a stupid example but think of dumbledore from Harry Potter. But nope, roadkill likes it when people feel bitter and resigned because that validates his own mentality and outlook on life, and that’s why I’m getting downvoted by Thomas more, guess he’s in that group too

Bucky gave you good advice about understanding Roadkill and also about finding a life partner. Please take it to heart.

And be very careful vetting any woman you eventually consider for marriage... :p;)
 
If you’re unimpressed with me then be a man and say it, don’t be condescending and snide

It's more like I am disappointed in you, due to the way you repeatedly reacted to Roadkill, despite Bucky taking the time to explain things to you. Maecenas, you seem to lack empathy.

And when I said you should carefully vette any woman you plan to marry, well you better, if you want to minimize the of risk of getting deeply hurt like so many men do. Ten years from now, you could be in Roadkill's shoes.
 

Maecenas

Sparrow
It's more like I am disappointed in you, due to the way you repeatedly reacted to Roadkill, despite Bucky taking the time to explain things to you. Maecenas, you seem to lack empathy.

And when I said you should carefully vette any woman you plan to marry, well you better, if you want to minimize the of risk of getting deeply hurt like so many men do. Ten years from now, you could be in Roadkill's shoes.

There's not a single person on the planet who doesn't "vet" a person they're considering marrying. That doesn't constitute as advice at all.

I'm glad you're being more straight with me now. I've been extremely distasteful in the way I talk, yes, but that doesn't mean I lack empathy. What you call empathy I call sympathy or enmeshment

edit: Bucky "explained" something to me and I disagreed. You can read above how I disagreed. It seems what you're really trying to say is "Bro you should shut up and just agree with Bucky" you can see the point I made above, I'm happy to debate on its merits

anyways, I'm done for the day, see y'all
 

bucky

Ostrich
Talk about blackpilled. Going from reading redbeard’s thread to reading this thread is giving me two very different outlooks on marriage. Was thinking of getting married in my late 20s, can anyone give guidance on this? God bless.

To be fair to the black pillers, redbeard just got married. Things could easily go awry. That said, I find it hard to believe that these guys don't know ANYONE who's in a good marriage, and their negativity is annoying and ridiculous. I remember the misery of my first, bad marriage and the subsequent divorce, but I never projected my suffering onto the institution of marriage as a whole, I just wished I were happy like other couples I saw. I was an agnostic at the time, but who knows, maybe that desire was somehow a version of the "seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened unto you" that Jesus talks about in the Gospels.

Also, looking back on my first marriage now I can see that it was a result of a huge number of bad decisions I made over the years, and that if I knew what I know now, it never would have happened in the first place.
 

R.G.Camara

Kingfisher
My sample size is small, but I doubt much smaller than anyone here.

Married for nearly 7 years, next long term relationship was 2 years, with current GF for 5 years.

The sex was never decreased or withheld. And I am not some sort of Apollo sex God nor have I ever put in effort selecting certain women or acting a certain way to avoid such a problem.

Also in my friend group I have guys who:

* complain they would like more sex, but that the sex never decreased (ie. wife was never super sexually hungry, but it is consistent)
* complain that they want to have less sex only because their wives gained some weight or got bitchy (the wives are not withholding it)

I can't really even conceive of a relationship that begins with mutual attraction and physical enjoyment where the woman suddenly decides to turn that off, outside of extreme gold digger stuff.

Are you guys who are experiencing this leaving some details out of your stories?

Women are horny, they love sex, and once in love with you will crave your intimacy, attention, and touch (more so than you will want to give it). At least that is my experience.

Your life then is the rarity; the exception, not the rule. Congrats.

As for the vast majority of men, their women's sex drive plunges approximately 18-36 months into the relationship. It's an extremely common issue been going on for thousands of years, immortalized in numerous songs, plays, movies, tv shows, etc. Women just stop pleasing their man at a certain point and go frigid.

It's a cliche for a reason.

A five-minute google search will yield you thousands of articles like these about women not having sex with their men anymore:





I would also suggest watching The Better Bachelor youtube channel. He talks in various videos about his ex-wife, about how she shut down sex after the initial "honeymoon" phase, and how he finally walked out after 6 years when she denied him sex and preferred to watch American Idol. He's not bitter about it, he just explains matter of factly that is how the vast majority of women are, and a man simply must move on when that occurs, because it won't get fixed (he's non-religious).
 

GWYW2015

Woodpecker
My sample size is small, but I doubt much smaller than anyone here.

Married for nearly 7 years, next long term relationship was 2 years, with current GF for 5 years.

The sex was never decreased or withheld. And I am not some sort of Apollo sex God nor have I ever put in effort selecting certain women or acting a certain way to avoid such a problem.

Also in my friend group I have guys who:

* complain they would like more sex, but that the sex never decreased (ie. wife was never super sexually hungry, but it is consistent)
* complain that they want to have less sex only because their wives gained some weight or got bitchy (the wives are not withholding it)

I can't really even conceive of a relationship that begins with mutual attraction and physical enjoyment where the woman suddenly decides to turn that off, outside of extreme gold digger stuff.

Are you guys who are experiencing this leaving some details out of your stories?

Women are horny, they love sex, and once in love with you will crave your intimacy, attention, and touch (more so than you will want to give it). At least that is my experience.
I like the last part of your comment, very true!

I'd like to think most good women who want to be married will respond to a man she knows is really into her, for the long haul. Absolutely, a woman who is healthy and in a good marriage will give her husband enough sex.
 
There's not a single person on the planet who doesn't "vet" a person they're considering marrying. That doesn't constitute as advice at all.

I'm glad you're being more straight with me now. I've been extremely distasteful in the way I talk, yes, but that doesn't mean I lack empathy. What you call empathy I call sympathy or enmeshment

edit: Bucky "explained" something to me and I disagreed. You can read above how I disagreed. It seems what you're really trying to say is "Bro you should shut up and just agree with Bucky" you can see the point I made above, I'm happy to debate on its merits

anyways, I'm done for the day, see y'all

Unfortunately, a fairly large number of men don't carefully vette the women they marry. She is attractive, she is fun, she makes the guy feel good, she is interested, she provides good sex, she superficially seems like a good match, and so he marries her. Only during the marriage or after the divorce does the man realize the red flags that existed.

As I understand it, enmeshment refers to families and couples that lack proper boundaries, and not brief interactions on an internet forum. I am familiar with Paul Bloom and his book.

Perhaps in time Roadkill can grow beyond his pain and fear of being hurt deeply by a woman. But considering our unhealthy culture and the deep unfairness of family courts, I am not so sure that will happen. He is a former combat arms USMC officer who has experienced war, and I'm sure that colors his personality and character.

I'm not saying you should shut up. But be open to the wisdom of others.

Harry Potter is not the real world, but I did like your Dumbledore reference.
 

R.G.Camara

Kingfisher
There's not a single person on the planet who doesn't "vet" a person they're considering marrying. That doesn't constitute as advice at all.

I'm glad you're being more straight with me now. I've been extremely distasteful in the way I talk, yes, but that doesn't mean I lack empathy. What you call empathy I call sympathy or enmeshment

edit: Bucky "explained" something to me and I disagreed. You can read above how I disagreed. It seems what you're really trying to say is "Bro you should shut up and just agree with Bucky" you can see the point I made above, I'm happy to debate on its merits

anyways, I'm done for the day, see y'all

There is vetting and there is vetting.

It was once incumbent on the family to vet a bride for her husband. Women in the family---mothers, aunts, grandmothers, sisters---would scrutinize her and see if she was worthy. And they would protect their brothers/sons from such women. Nowadays, women don't do that, especially in the age of Feminazism and broken families.
 

RoadKill

Sparrow
Perhaps in time Roadkill can grow beyond his pain and fear of being hurt deeply by a woman. But considering our unhealthy culture and the deep unfairness of family courts, I am not so sure that will happen. He is a former combat arms USMC officer who has experienced war, and I'm sure that colors his personality and character.

Thank you for your kind words and for your support. I do not believe in stolen valor or misrepresentation, so I must clarify some things. I was discharged at the rank of sergeant in the USMC and I served from 1991 through 2001. I was discharged and collecting disability just before 9/11 and I was not called back. I did deploy in two "WESTPAC" (Western Pacific) MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) deployments in the mid-90's and was in Marine Corps Aviation and aircrew and a qualified door gunner.

Each time we deployed, we lost someone from our squadron in the middle east. One died in a helicopter crash and the other was lost at sea. The one who was lost at sea was my classmate during training and we knew each other and worked in the same shop for two years. His body was confirmed to have fallen overboard, but he was never recovered. During that time I received tax free pay, imminent danger pay and flight pay. All US service members receive tax free pay and imminent danger pay when in a certain section of the middle east.

I have never had a shot fired at me in anger and I am not a combat marine. But the danger of the job is very real. Nothing will make you aware of your mortality than performing ship-to-ship landings in total darkness over the Marianas Trench in low light level conditions with night vision goggles in high seas. Pucker factor of 11! Others before me and after me did not survive these essential training exercises.

These guys failed in the daytime and in calmer seas. Notice the left rear landing gear gets snagged in the netting. That's what did these guys in. Seven souls were lost that day and eleven were saved.

When I say that I've encountered real danger and lost friends doing the same job I did, this is what I'm talking about.

My daughter eventually joined the USMC because she wanted to follow my path and served her four years and was honorably discharged two years ago. She is the first in our family of "Legacy Marines."

As for my personal pain. I'd say I'm over it, but the scar remains, and it is a deep scar. Really, the only thing I regret is getting re-married when my girl was only 10 years old. I should have stayed single until she was 18. I may come across as bitter and harsh, but I'm simply strong in my convictions. GOD has never let me down. People, on the other hand....

RK

Semper Fi.
 

RoadKill

Sparrow
You just emotionally barfed on me dude and now I feel gross. You are taking your life way too seriously and you live your life with a heavy heart, I don’t care if you are “warm” with people or if people share secrets with you (why are they sharing secrets with you by the way??? Why do secrets matter???) you can put up that facade all you want but at the end of the day your mentality and outlook on life says it all. I’m what we would consider a young guy here and you’re older. Do I feel inspired and invigorated after talking with you? Nope. And what’s worse is your using intellectual arguments to make it sound like you know what you’re talking about

edit: people shouldn’t be “opening up” with each other about pain and “secrets”. That’s just enmeshment. If people are “opening up” with you that’s cause they can sense you’re on the same victim mentality and they’ll get validation

I stand by what I said, you’re arrogant, and you’re full of yourself. We’ve found the reason why marriage is painful to you, it’s exhausting to be around such a negative mindset. Sex is an act of celebration. If you’re bitter what’s there to celebrate?

Welcome to the internet, pal. If you feel gross from reading my post on the internet, you're really not ready for marriage. You sound like a guy who has been shielded from reality and you act as if people should consider your feelings and avoid telling you the ugly truth. You sound like a guy who has a feeling that you want us to agree with and validate to make yourself feel more secure in whatever it is you feel. Reality is a hard pill to swallow, but it goes down easier with a glass of humility.

People trust me because I'm slow to anger and I don't over-react to things. I also don't force my unsolicited opinions on anyone because I really don't give a damn about how people live their lives, so long as they're not hurting me (as for my opinions on this board, people make posts and are soliciting opinions, so I'm free to acquiesce to their request and solicit my opinion). This makes them feel un-judged.

I was recently very friendly to a new-hire at my company and I simply wanted to make small talk and make him feel welcome as the new guy. For some reason, he got a vibe from me and opened up to me about recently getting out of prison for selling illegal drugs. I was slightly taken aback but I quickly praised him for really making the attempt to change his life around and to keep up the good fight. I always made a point to encourage him when I saw him.

My absolute best friend is not even in the same class as me. He's filthy rich and we shouldn't be friends on paper. He's a dentist and owns his own practice. He pays cash for a Mercedes when he wants and I'm trying to stretch my jeep out to 200k miles because I can't afford a new truck right now. But we have the common bond of horrible divorces. I went through mine first and I shepherded him through his and was able to tell him exactly how things would be and how to deal with them. I've stopped giving him advice though recently as he's dating again and he only wants to hear the good and ignore serious red flags with his new girlfriend. I still listen, I just stop giving advice. I simply tell him now that I hope GOD shows them the way. In the end, like you, the man will do what he wants to do, even though "The heart is deceitful, above all things."

As far as people opening up, it's kind of a biblical thing. "Plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed."

I'm glad you don't feel inspired. These are not inspiring times. What will you do when the marriage you have all the answers for falls short of your expectations? Will you tell your wife that you feel she barfed her feelings all over you and you feel nasty? I'm really interested to hear how that turns out. People don't see me as a victim. They see me as a guy who's gone through way more than the average person, but has still not left GOD. You really don't know me.

And for your last statement for me being arrogant and full of myself; When have I insulted you in this thread? I have disagreed with you and as your senior, I have pointed out errors in your statements that are themselves, arrogant; like saying you have marriage all figured out and us older married and divorced guys don't. I don't know if you know how arrogant of a statement that is. It really, really is an arrogant and prideful statement.

You attack me by saying I use intellect in my arguments, but logic and reason is what separates us from women. It's the core of a good debate. What I'm hearing from you is that you're not interested in hearing an opinion that doesn't align with yours. That's called pride. But what do I know. I'm just an old bitter codger, washed up and waiting to die. GOD forbid I warn others...

And by the way, I'm more amused by you than anything else, and I'm not hurt at all. I don't seek to win you over and I don't seek your validation. I
really don't care what people think of me. I have my GOD and I have my kids. Everyone else can piss off if they wish.

RK
 

Dilated

Woodpecker
Unfortunately, a fairly large number of men don't carefully vette the women they marry. She is attractive, she is fun, she makes the guy feel good, she is interested, she provides good sex, she superficially seems like a good match, and so he marries her. Only during the marriage or after the divorce does the man realize the red flags that existed.

As I understand it, enmeshment refers to families and couples that lack proper boundaries, and not brief interactions on an internet forum. I am familiar with Paul Bloom and his book.

Perhaps in time Roadkill can grow beyond his pain and fear of being hurt deeply by a woman. But considering our unhealthy culture and the deep unfairness of family courts, I am not so sure that will happen. He is a former combat arms USMC officer who has experienced war, and I'm sure that colors his personality and character.

I'm not saying you should shut up. But be open to the wisdom of others.

Harry Potter is not the real world, but I did like your Dumbledore reference.

I think most guys are vetting...but what I think they are seeing can be boiled down to shitty options. As an example, I’ve seen heinous behavior from girls from every walk of life- religious and non-religious, white and non-white, divorced parents and parents still together, rich girls and poor girls, American girls and non-Americans.

The details are the different...but it’s the same heinous behavior...just in different forms...and it’s consistent. I think guys are seeing this and understanding that, as awful as it may be, they are willing to enter into a shit sandwich of a relationship because their desire for kids and a family is so strong.

You can dismiss women for flagrant behavior all day long but there is a decent chance you’ll be dismissing them forever...and ending up with no family.

Is sticking to your principles and not producing offspring a better outcome?
Men are weighing this calculus. I’m currently doing the same.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
You can dismiss women for flagrant behavior all day long but there is a decent chance you’ll be dismissing them forever...and ending up with no family.

Is sticking to your principles and not producing offspring a better outcome?
Men are weighing this calculus. I’m currently doing the same.

Ultimately, this is the current dilemma that keeps coming back to (haunt) us. It's hard to get serious about a woman who is a reed in this culture's spiritual wind, flippin' and flappin at the will of other's not her husbands. And old, historically, to boot. Without reinventing more of the same conversation, it all boils down to the age at which the culture tries to connect people. If not on the younger side, you get less and less of the youth/fertility/beauty, and more and more of the cynical nature of women having been played, precisely because most were "playing" throughout their 20s.

Also, women care clueless as to the dynamic of their losing their SMV and men gaining it in turn, at age 30+. They aren't clueless that they are losing it, they are clueless of the double whammy of trying to sell a plummeting stock to others with stock that is surging ...
 
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