Are raw salads actually good for you?

rainy

Pelican
Other Christian
Salads are a modern fad and a profligate misuse of vegetables. I make large stews and broths and soups with many vegetables boiled in them with heavy seasonings, and always feel stronger afterwards. I've fed 6-7 people for 2 days with a full 10-quart of vegetable soup, and instead of using rice I'll use yams for carbohydrates. A particularly delicious recipe to play around with is Borscht. Beets and cabbage, with the right mirepoix starter can come out amazing and last for a good week.
I would be interested in some of your recipes.
 

ScannerLIV

Woodpecker
This is obviously anecdotal, but I stopped eating vegetables 4 years ago. No more lettuce, brocoli, spinach, basically the only green foods I consume are chilis and avocados (which are both fruits). I noticed way less digestive issues since I stopped. My diet now is heavy on meats and fats, with occasional fruits like avocados as well as tumblers like potatoes.



Did eating them cooked or stream make any difference with your digestive issues?
 

Jesu Juva

 
Banned
Eating a tomato raw is better than cooked. Because the vitamines get less when cooked and so on. If you eat a tomato and an apple a day you got your vitamines. From my words you can tell, I'm not an expert in that field. But I have to say, worrying too much about that stuff is unhealty in my opinion - it drives your blood pressure high, because you worry all the time. There are people who feel sick if they miss their daily ten miles run. Think about that. Much of health is psychological. There is this guy in Iran, who lives in the desert, smokes whatever he can find, never washes himself, and is an old man now, because he thinks, what he does is healthy or at least not lethal. If I would live like him, I would be dead within a month. How our body deals with the things we put into it depends to a large degree on our mind.
 

SebastianReal

Pigeon
Catholic
Raw vegatables (particularly cruciferous -- kale, spinach, argula, etc.) seem to be a double edged sword. They can contain high degrees of anti-nutrients (like oxalic acid, goitrogens, etc.), but they also can contain glucosinolates (anti-carcinogenic compounds), high amounts of vitamins and minerals, high amounts of soluble and insoluble fiber (to feed your gut bacteria), and a host of other beneficial phytonutrients (e.g. DIM for estrogen metabolism and estrogen detoxification, flavonoids, anthocyanins, cartenoids, plant terpenes, etc.). The bioavailability of some of these compounds is enhanced with cooking; the bioavailability of others is significantly reduced or destroyed.

I prefer to roast/fry my cruciferous vegetables (like kale and brussel sprouts) to lessen the goitrogenic effect (that otherwise could potentially lead to hypothryoidism through inhibiting iodine absorption). I also ingest calcium citrate with the vegetables that are high in oxalate (calcium citrate binds oxalates in the GI tract) to prevent kidney stones and other bad effects of oxalates. When I want to make a salad, I usually use Romaine lettuce (low in anti-nutrients and still rich in vitamin A, vitamin C, and other phytonutrients) or Butter lettuce.

I think the majority of our food should be cooked, but we do seem to function best with some "roughage" in our diet from raw foods every day. We just have to make sure they're foods that are healthy to eat raw (berries, avocados, beets, lettuce, etc.) and not ones that are unhealthy to eat raw (potatoes, beans, mushrooms, excessive amounts of cruciferous vegetables, etc).
 
Last edited:

Sjl

Chicken
Four years ago I got a digestive sickness with a temporary case of mild jaundice which resolved without treatment. In parallel, I was treating myself with a vitamin B complex for vertigo.

Some time later, I saw an acupuncturist and after profiling my diet, he strongly recommended leafy green vegetables like kale and spinach. I took his advice since I was getting to middle age and wanted to be "healthy," and everyone knows that to be healthy you have to eat salad. I started eating two medium-sized raw salads a day, and soon I stopped having to take vitamin B (which spinach contains a lot of). But over a year ago, even with my salad habit, the vertigo returned. So either the spinach I eat doesn't actually have the vitamin B anymore even though I always buy organic (because of soil depletion) or my body can't absorb it in its raw state. I now have been eating salad for four years and I haven't been able to stop taking supplements (especially vitamin B and magnesium). So what's the point of eating salad, I wondered recently.

Then I asked myself, "Why do I believe that salads are healthy?" The answer that came back to me: "Because the media and doctors always say so." That concerned me since we know here the media and medicine have been corrupted.

Most of the popular salads you know by name weren't invented until the early 20th century (at the time heart attacks started to go up and vegetable oil consumption increased). If you go to Wikipedia, they will say raw salads have been eaten since ancient times, but how frequently? Also, the word "salad" has changed. Look at this 1845 recipe of "chicken salad" and tell me how many vegetables you encounter:

If you look at cookbooks over 100 years old, there is not a raw salad section like there are in modern cookbooks. The vegetables are almost always cooked, even if the recipe has the word "salad". Here are two examples:

The Good Housekeeper (1839)
The Virginia Housewife (1838)

There is a huge list of old cookbooks available to browse through (very cool). The recipes in the old cookbooks would give modern doctors a heart attack. According to the modern standard, they are "not healthy." But heart attacks didn't start happening until the early 20th century, and cancer rates were also lower back then.

Source: Think Raw Veggies are Always Best? Think Again

The truth is that I'm in a nutrient deficient state concerning vitamins even though I eat a lot of (raw) vegetables with olive oil. I haven't been able to reduce my supplement intake even though I'm targeting vegetable that have minerals I need, and I don't feel any healthier than before. Have I been duped by raw salad?
I run at least 3-5 miles a day. I lift weights 2-4 times a week. It's something I do because if I don't I tend to go into a weird dark place. And I totally believe it's God's grace and talent he has for me. Anyways, food is my fuel. I've tried this lifestyle of running and lifting with many different diets. It has been a lot of experimentation.

My diet years ago was junk food/fast food/processed foods. Then I had an ER visit for an irregular heartbeat that I attributed to my diet and high stress. I moved forward without any treatment or follow ups with a cardiologist. I had a food enlightenment and tried vegan. I read a book and went for it. Beans, seeds, raw veggies. It helped with the running. I felt light, always ready to go and I did feel terrific. For a while. I could feel the testosterone lowering in me. I can't explain it but I felt like I was more depressed and gay. So I went vegetarian. Basically I added eggs. Which knowing what I know now about eggs probably did so much for me. Like a life saving multivitamin.

I was vegetarian for a few months and I've never had any better running months in my life. Body was performing at top notch. But again, I was not right in the head.

I had a culver's steak burger for a buddy's bachelor party and the vegetarian life was all over.

Over time I crafted a diet that mainly consists of steak, chicken, eggs, white rice, red potatoes (good) bread for pb&j and oats. I eat that stuff almost daily. I cook it in olive oil and ghee and salt everything. I eat a fruit and leafy / carrot / celery smoothie before each run in the AM. Lift at night. This diet is best. My body is thriving and both running and lifting perform good. I feel full at the end of the day and I my mental health is great. I can literally feel my testosterone in my blood. Especially so when I go out in public and walk amongst the soy boys or normies.
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
Maybe I'm just weird, I enjoy the occasional tossed salad of some lettuce, onion, red onion, tomato, ground white pepper, crack salt, extra virgin olive oil, and a good balsamic. Toss together and serve as a side alongside a rare steak.

Beyond that I just ain to eat a well balanced meal which does include a lot of meat.
 

KoolDoon

 
Banned
Protestant
My brother eats raw meat. He cuts off a big part of a steak and eats it raw. My body can not do that. Raw vegetables are healthy, but you have to make sure where they come from. I only buy vegetables from farmers I know.
 

xbt2

Pigeon
Protestant
Four years ago I got a digestive sickness with a temporary case of mild jaundice which resolved without treatment. In parallel, I was treating myself with a vitamin B complex for vertigo.

Some time later, I saw an acupuncturist and after profiling my diet, he strongly recommended leafy green vegetables like kale and spinach. I took his advice since I was getting to middle age and wanted to be "healthy," and everyone knows that to be healthy you have to eat salad. I started eating two medium-sized raw salads a day, and soon I stopped having to take vitamin B (which spinach contains a lot of). But over a year ago, even with my salad habit, the vertigo returned. So either the spinach I eat doesn't actually have the vitamin B anymore even though I always buy organic (because of soil depletion) or my body can't absorb it in its raw state. I now have been eating salad for four years and I haven't been able to stop taking supplements (especially vitamin B and magnesium). So what's the point of eating salad, I wondered recently.

Then I asked myself, "Why do I believe that salads are healthy?" The answer that came back to me: "Because the media and doctors always say so." That concerned me since we know here the media and medicine have been corrupted.

Most of the popular salads you know by name weren't invented until the early 20th century (at the time heart attacks started to go up and vegetable oil consumption increased). If you go to Wikipedia, they will say raw salads have been eaten since ancient times, but how frequently? Also, the word "salad" has changed. Look at this 1845 recipe of "chicken salad" and tell me how many vegetables you encounter:

If you look at cookbooks over 100 years old, there is not a raw salad section like there are in modern cookbooks. The vegetables are almost always cooked, even if the recipe has the word "salad". Here are two examples:

The Good Housekeeper (1839)
The Virginia Housewife (1838)

There is a huge list of old cookbooks available to browse through (very cool). The recipes in the old cookbooks would give modern doctors a heart attack. According to the modern standard, they are "not healthy." But heart attacks didn't start happening until the early 20th century, and cancer rates were also lower back then.

Source: Think Raw Veggies are Always Best? Think Again

The truth is that I'm in a nutrient deficient state concerning vitamins even though I eat a lot of (raw) vegetables with olive oil. I haven't been able to reduce my supplement intake even though I'm targeting vegetable that have minerals I need, and I don't feel any healthier than before. Have I been duped by raw salad?
Roosh

Have you tried any of the old time recipes from these books? If so, do you notice a difference?
 

Stadtaffe

Kingfisher
Orthodox
Gold Member
I've never got lettuce. If there's any taste at all it comes from the salad dressing. So I don't eat it. If I eat salad at all, I'll make a Greek salad of cucumber, tomatoes, olives and feta. What I do recommend as an appetizer are ferments and pickles. I make my own sauerkraut and eat it with pickled herring and a gherkin. Helps digestion and keeps your microbiome healthy.
You can make carb free hamburgers by wrapping in lettuce.

There is an asian dish called san choi bau which employs lettuce.

Also like Greek salad. salade niçoise is good as well, tomatoes, hard-boiled eggs, black olives and anchovies or tuna, olive oil, not necessarily lettuce
 

Handsome Creepy Eel

Owl
Catholic
Gold Member
I'm a big fan of salads, they make a visible difference on stool movements, and as far as I can tell, are more related to not getting sick than supplements. But non-raw vegetables are great too, especially if baked instead of cooked or fried.

My favorite are Serbian salads that, in addition to lettuce, rocket, tomatoes, cucumbers and peppers, add fruits (apple, dried plums or raisins) and nuts (almonds or walnuts), topped with some sort of optional light honey dressing. They're very light and non-greasy, yet tasty.
 

Ben Miller

 
Banned
Non-Christian
A major cause of heart disease is low density lipoprotein or ldl-cholesterol which is found in partially hydrogenated oil which was introduced in 1901 by a German, most likely Jewish, chemist named Wilhelm Norman. In 1909 mass production of this oil started.

But in 2018, the US government banned the use of partially hydrogenated oil for any food because research has finally isolated the major cause of heart disease to be this oil.

But the leading cause of heart disease is smoking because, while the ldl-cholesterol can be flushed out using drugs or vaporized by fiber optic lasers, the plaque formed by inhaled cigarette smoke in the blood vessels cannot be removed.

The leading causes of cancer on the other hand are smoking, alcohol, illegal drugs, smoke from the exhausts of motor vehicles and combustion power plants, sodium nitrite from canned meat, the teflon on old frying pans, and UV-rays.

So do not abuse substances, live in polluted places like Africa, South America, and Asia because they do not enforce the rule requiring motor vehicles and combustion power plants to have emission filters in their exhausts and they are overpopulated, do combine intake of canned meat with 1000mg of Vitamin C to prevent the sodium nitrite from turning into cancer causing nitrosamines in your stomach, switch old teflon coated frying pans with calphalon coated frying pans, cast iron pans, aluminum pans, tin pans, or copper pans, and use sunblock if you are going to spend plenty of time outdoors or wear white clothing that covers the whole body to reflect the sunlight.

It does not matter whether the vegetables are cooked or not with regards to nutritional content but uncooked vegetables can contain microbes and parasites if not properly washed.

As far as carbohydrates are concerned, your consumption of vegetables is better than consuming grains because grains contain gluten which can lower testosterone and dopamine levels, lowering intelligence and slowing down metabolism.

Other sources of carbohydrates like legumes, beans and nuts are also bad: legumes contain coumestans which can elevate estrogen and lower testosterone, thus stunting intelligence, beans can cause hyperflatulence and hyperacidity which can cause ulcers, while nuts can elevate uric acid which can irritate bones and joints because of its corrosive effect, causing inflammation and elevating cortisol levels which can lower testosterone and thus intelligence.
 
Last edited:

Ben Miller

 
Banned
Non-Christian
Can you provide evidence that cholesterol causes heart disease? This is only a theory.

There are 2 types of cholesterol, low density lipoprotein or ldl which is "bad cholesterol" and high density lipoprotein or hdl which is "good cholesterol".

The hdl-cholesterol which is found in animal fat, vegetable fat, and egg yolk and can be synthesized by the liver if taking vitamin B3, magnesium, omega-3, and fiber is good for your health because it strengthens the cell walls, protecting against any form of damage.

The hdl-cholesterol is also one of the building blocks of brain cells and testosterone so taking it will increase your intelligence and simultaneously masculinize you.

In fact, you can even buy hdl-cholesterol tablets derived from plants, animals, or eggs from drugstores and nutrition shops.

But the low density lipoprotein or ldl cholesterol gets stuck in the blood vessels, causing atherosclerosis which leads to heart disease and stroke, but it is only found in partially hydrogenated oil which is already banned in the USA. Other types of oil such as vegetable oil or lard do not contain ldl-cholesterol and are safe for use which is why they can still be bought in groceries and supermarkets.

Ldl-cholesterol can also lower testosterone levels by blocking hdl-cholesterol.

Source: https://anabolicmen.com/trans-fat-and-testosterone/
 
Last edited:

Cavalier

Kingfisher
Orthodox Catechumen
I like raw salads but i feel that fermented vegetables are even better for health. I like to make brined cucumber pickles, kimchi, sauerkraut. I even like to ferment carrots and celery. Fermented vegetables remain crisp like fresh but are easier to digest.
 

Ben Miller

 
Banned
Non-Christian
I like raw salads but i feel that fermented vegetables are even better for health. I like to make brined cucumber pickles, kimchi, sauerkraut. I even like to ferment carrots and celery. Fermented vegetables remain crisp like fresh but are easier to digest.

This is true because fermentation breaks down the vegetables.

The peoples of the Eurasian Empires have been mass producing processed, easily digestible foods since ancient times using the following processes:

Salting
Soaking in Vinegar
Spicing
Drying
Smoking
Curing
Fermentation

The Eurasians even pioneered the modern water system comprised of the following devices:

Ditch
Chain Pump
Canals
Sewers
Aqueduct
Drinking Fountains
Toilet
Watering Can
Well
Cistern

We also have the following industrial machines and facilities that we have been using to mass produce food since 8000 BCE:

Quern Stone
Grain Silo
Saltworks
Smokehouse
Millstone
Filter Press

While the Jewish, African, and Native American tribesmen were primitive and had no metal, agriculture, agricultural tools, draft animals, machines, and food preservation techniques, making them truly stuck in a dark age until contact with the industrial empires of Eurasia.

These people outside of Eurasia led truly hard lives devoid of the industrial technology that the Imperial Eurasians possessed.

They were so primitive that they even resorted to superstitions like rain dances, cannibalism, and human sacrifice in the hopes that such stupid rituals would grant them food when they only needed to innovate to be well fed.
 
Last edited:

Tedd

Pigeon
Agnostic
A major cause of heart disease is low density lipoprotein or ldl-cholesterol which is found in partially hydrogenated oil which was introduced in 1901 by a German, most likely Jewish, chemist named Wilhelm Norman. In 1909 mass production of this oil started.

But in 2018, the US government banned the use of partially hydrogenated oil for any food because research has finally isolated the major cause of heart disease to be this oil.

But the leading cause of heart disease is smoking because, while the ldl-cholesterol can be flushed out using drugs or vaporized by fiber optic lasers, the plaque formed by inhaled cigarette smoke in the blood vessels cannot be removed.

The leading causes of cancer on the other hand are smoking, alcohol, illegal drugs, smoke from the exhausts of motor vehicles and combustion power plants, sodium nitrite from canned meat, the teflon on old frying pans, and UV-rays.

So do not abuse substances, live in polluted places like Africa, South America, and Asia because they do not enforce the rule requiring motor vehicles and combustion power plants to have emission filters in their exhausts and they are overpopulated, do combine intake of canned meat with 1000mg of Vitamin C to prevent the sodium nitrite from turning into cancer causing nitrosamines in your stomach, switch old teflon coated frying pans with calphalon coated frying pans, cast iron pans, aluminum pans, tin pans, or copper pans, and use sunblock if you are going to spend plenty of time outdoors or wear white clothing that covers the whole body to reflect the sunlight.

It does not matter whether the vegetables are cooked or not with regards to nutritional content but uncooked vegetables can contain microbes and parasites if not properly washed.

As far as carbohydrates are concerned, your consumption of vegetables is better than consuming grains because grains contain gluten which can lower testosterone and dopamine levels, lowering intelligence and slowing down metabolism.

Other sources of carbohydrates like legumes, beans and nuts are also bad: legumes contain coumestans which can elevate estrogen and lower testosterone, thus stunting intelligence, beans can cause hyperflatulence and hyperacidity which can cause ulcers, while nuts can elevate uric acid which can irritate bones and joints because of its corrosive effect, causing inflammation and elevating cortisol levels which can lower testosterone and thus intelligence.
There are 2 types of cholesterol, low density lipoprotein or ldl which is "bad cholesterol" and high density lipoprotein or hdl which is "good cholesterol".

The hdl-cholesterol which is found in animal fat, vegetable fat, and egg yolk and can be synthesized by the liver if taking vitamin B3, magnesium, omega-3, and fiber is good for your health because it strengthens the cell walls, protecting against any form of damage.

The hdl-cholesterol is also one of the building blocks of brain cells and testosterone so taking it will increase your intelligence and simultaneously masculinize you.

In fact, you can even buy hdl-cholesterol tablets derived from plants, animals, or eggs from drugstores and nutrition shops.

But the low density lipoprotein or ldl cholesterol gets stuck in the blood vessels, causing atherosclerosis which leads to heart disease and stroke, but it is only found in partially hydrogenated oil which is already banned in the USA. Other types of oil such as vegetable oil or lard do not contain ldl-cholesterol and are safe for use which is why they can still be bought in groceries and supermarkets.

Ldl-cholesterol can also lower testosterone levels by blocking hdl-cholesterol.

Source: https://anabolicmen.com/trans-fat-and-testosterone/

I think you are confusing LDL-cholesterol with trans fatty acids. Trans fatty acids are what's in partially hydrogenated oils and what contributes to heart disease, and the source you gave says so as well. LDL cholesterol in itself is not dangerous - in fact it is synthesized by our bodies and used to deliver all-important cholesterol to our cells. Without LDL, we would die. What makes LDL dangerous, however, is when it's oxidized or glycated because then our bodies can't reabsorb it and it accumulates. Oxidization happens for example when ingesting vegetable oils, glycation happens when blood sugar is too high.
Also, your food sources of both LDL and HDL are mostly irrelevant because your body makes about 80% of the cholesterol you have anyways.

About the vegetables: cooking or not absolutely does make a difference nutritionally. Many vitamins are not heat stable, minerals get flushed out into the cooking water. On the other hand, some anti-nutrients get deactivated by heat or soaking. Cooked (or otherwise processed) and uncooked vegetables are indeed vastly different.

Also, don't ever wear sunscreen unless you absolutely must, and then use physical sunscreen (that is, sunscreen containing zinc particles for example). Most all sunscreen contains harmful chemicals that really do more damage than good. Especially because sunlight is actually extremely good for you - so good, in fact, that even if you do get skin cancer, you might still have a longer life span expectation than someone who tries his best to avoid the sun and wears sunscreen daily.

For more info, check out these two lectures by Paul Mason:
On sunlight:
On cholesterol:
 

Patrick1

Pigeon
Orthodox
I always notice fewer gi problems when I am eating more vegetables. One of the problems why there is so much controversy over what foods are healthy is there's so many variables. Activity level, environmental pollutants, sleep quality, stress, genetics, sunlight etc.

For example sugar consumption is down over the last 20 years but obesity and diabetes continues to rise.
 

El Draque

 
Banned
Orthodox
I run at least 3-5 miles a day. I lift weights 2-4 times a week. It's something I do because if I don't I tend to go into a weird dark place. And I totally believe it's God's grace and talent he has for me. Anyways, food is my fuel. I've tried this lifestyle of running and lifting with many different diets. It has been a lot of experimentation.

My diet years ago was junk food/fast food/processed foods. Then I had an ER visit for an irregular heartbeat that I attributed to my diet and high stress. I moved forward without any treatment or follow ups with a cardiologist. I had a food enlightenment and tried vegan. I read a book and went for it. Beans, seeds, raw veggies. It helped with the running. I felt light, always ready to go and I did feel terrific. For a while. I could feel the testosterone lowering in me. I can't explain it but I felt like I was more depressed and gay. So I went vegetarian. Basically I added eggs. Which knowing what I know now about eggs probably did so much for me. Like a life saving multivitamin.

I was vegetarian for a few months and I've never had any better running months in my life. Body was performing at top notch. But again, I was not right in the head.

I had a culver's steak burger for a buddy's bachelor party and the vegetarian life was all over.

Over time I crafted a diet that mainly consists of steak, chicken, eggs, white rice, red potatoes (good) bread for pb&j and oats. I eat that stuff almost daily. I cook it in olive oil and ghee and salt everything. I eat a fruit and leafy / carrot / celery smoothie before each run in the AM. Lift at night. This diet is best. My body is thriving and both running and lifting perform good. I feel full at the end of the day and I my mental health is great. I can literally feel my testosterone in my blood. Especially so when I go out in public and walk amongst the soy boys or normies.



Great post.

A simple but hearty diet, sticking as close to the food our ancestors thrived on is the best way to go IMHO. Of course that's not possible in some cases due to modern agriculture and Mischief of ZOG, but as a compass to go by, it's as good as there is.

Great litte video this (superb channel btw, that guy made millions from Game design, sold his company and trains like a knight on his sprawling English countryside pile).

Shows how the fake history of 'our ancestors lived miserable lives, sitting around eating gruel and tasteless stew', for the malign falsity it is.

 

Ben Miller

 
Banned
Non-Christian
I think you are confusing LDL-cholesterol with trans fatty acids. Trans fatty acids are what's in partially hydrogenated oils and what contributes to heart disease, and the source you gave says so as well. LDL cholesterol in itself is not dangerous - in fact it is synthesized by our bodies and used to deliver all-important cholesterol to our cells. Without LDL, we would die. What makes LDL dangerous, however, is when it's oxidized or glycated because then our bodies can't reabsorb it and it accumulates. Oxidization happens for example when ingesting vegetable oils, glycation happens when blood sugar is too high.
Also, your food sources of both LDL and HDL are mostly irrelevant because your body makes about 80% of the cholesterol you have anyways.

About the vegetables: cooking or not absolutely does make a difference nutritionally. Many vitamins are not heat stable, minerals get flushed out into the cooking water. On the other hand, some anti-nutrients get deactivated by heat or soaking. Cooked (or otherwise processed) and uncooked vegetables are indeed vastly different.

Ldl-cholesterol comes from the trans fat in partially hydrogenated oil and is dangerous because it gets stuck in blood vessels and causes atherosclerosis. But it does not matter in the USA because partially hydrogenated oil was banned in 2018.

I have had my ldl and hdl cholesterol tested in blood tests and initially the ldl was high and hdl was low until I consumed the diet and supplements I mentioned. Then the ratio reversed in my next blood test: the hdl went up and the ldl went down and this is considered good for the body because hdl is what transports the cholesterol to the cells.

A quote from the article I cited:

There are plenty of reasons to consider trans fats unhealthy.

Firstly,
not only do they lower the “good” HDL cholesterol, but they also increase the “bad” LDL cholesterol, and blood triglycerides (study).

Secondly, trans-fats promote systemic inflammation in the body, which is considered as the root cause of many illnesses in modern-day medicine.

Thirdly, a large American review study recently concluded that every 2% increase in energy from trans fats, was associated with a 23% increase in cardiovascular disease risk.

Cooking is important because it kills the microbes and parasites in food but you can also do that through the following processes:

Salting
Soaking in Vinegar
Spicing
Drying
Smoking
Curing
Fermentation
 
Last edited:
Top