Are vegetable oils safe to eat?

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
The fact that Ray Peat got it so wrong about orange juice and sugar in general, which is obviously detrimental to metabolic health, pretty much scuppers his credibility. If he says we shouldn't be eating saturated fat, well that sinks the entire boat.
Peat is a fan of saturated fats. The issue is our culture demonizes one macronutrient for some reason, maybe to scapegoat what’s really wrong.

Sugar is not inherently bad, nor is fat. In excess, anything is bad.

The problem with our culture is spiritual disease which wreaks havoc on people’s relationship to food. People are gluttonous and addicted to foods that provide no nutritional value yet are extremely high in calories. Obese people are literally starving of micronutrients, so their hypothalamus doesn’t shut off the “hunger” signal. They’re literally starving to death so they keep overeating non-satisfying foods that eventually kill them.

Not to mention our water supply and food supply is largely poisonous from other chemicals that disrupt the endocrine system. It’s a total mess.

I find just buying healthy food in this country is my biggest monetary expense. It’s like they literally make it hard to eat normally here.
 
Yes they are toxic and mess up your metabolism IMO. The fact they have to be bleached/deodorized to make them edible should be case closed. You can basically just do the opposite of what the authorities in western countries recommend if you want to be healthy.

Eat mainly saturated fat from Butter/Tallow
Avoid 'heart healthy' unsaturated oils like the plague
Eat red meat
Eat eggs, especially the yolk. As a side note try duck eggs; more nutrient dense and taste the same.
Eat salt
Buy a water filter to remove the toxic fluoride from your drinking water (UK just announced it was being added nationwide)
Get plenty of sunshine without sunscreen (people doing carnivore diet have found they burn less easily than before. The theory is that this is because they removed all the polyunsaturated fat from their diet. PUFA builds up in your body fat and is much less stable and prone to oxidize a lot easier than saturated fat)
 

Hannibal

Ostrich
Gold Member
Get a couple pounds of butter, heat it up on medium heat on the stove, and skim off the milk solids that rise to the top. Decant into a glass or stainless container, avoiding the milk solids on the bottom of the pan.
This is clarified butter. It is easy to get, smokes at a high heat, and depending on your area is cheap.
Beef tallow can be made by taking beef kidney suet (a worse version is made with any beef trimmings) and just put it in a crockpot on low or in a covered dish in the oven at 250F.
Take the molten liquid and strain it with a cheesecloth, metal mesh strainer, paper towels whatever into a glass or stainless container.

There is no need to use any of those other trash oils, however canola makes for good lightweight machine lubricant.
 

Edek

Robin
Orthodox Catechumen
For those of you ready to take the lard pill...
Article: "Chances are the vast majority of people reading the title and looking at this bottle of lard will have a negative reaction."
Poles: "Absolutely. I don't see any grated apple, onion, garlic, bacon bits or even pepper in that smalec."
 

renotime

Ostrich
Gold Member
The Paleo people were on to this quite a few years back. A lot of you won't like to hear this, but bread isn't really good for you. It causes all kinds of inflammation and gut issues due to the lectin and gluten contained in bread.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I went down a rabbit hole yesterday. It appears that some olive oils may be laced with canola oil. A UC Davis study (which I can't find but is referenced by lots of publications) appears to suggest some of the major imported olive oil brands are not actually fully extra virgin olive oil. However the study was funded by California olive oil producers so that makes me somewhat skeptical. Colavita (olive oil brand I've been using) tried to assure people they weren't frauds but didn't publish a scientific analysis of their oil.

I'm going to go for high-end Greek stuff or stick with the California brand I think. Anyone have good recommendations on olive oil that are known to be pure? It worries me that I've been guzzling canola oils potentially lol.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
The Paleo people were on to this quite a few years back. A lot of you won't like to hear this, but bread isn't really good for you. It causes all kinds of inflammation and gut issues due to the lectin and gluten contained in bread.
Everyone's constitution is different, I don't doubt that some people can't tolerate bread. Paleo did not work for me. When I did paleo I would end up eating way too much meat protein to compensate for calories, which I'm sure was hard on my kidneys. As soon as I introduced grains (wheat, rice, oats, etc.) I felt much better. I personally experience no ill effects from gluten.

I take issue with paleo, ray peat, and any other dogmatic dietician who claims that one food item is bad for all people. Now, of course canola oil is not really a "food item," so there are exceptions to things we just shouldn't be eating entirely. But since the beginning of agricultural civilization humans have eaten grain and lived to very long ages in good health. Pretty much every centenarian I've read about/heard about ate bread.

Again, lots of this attacking of sugar or starch or protein or fat is to sell books and does not address balance. It's not actually trying to help individuals who all have a different set of needs and a different constitution. I tried all these fad diets and each one made me sick. People could say I was "doing it wrong," but the thing is I was the only one doing it correctly, whereas all my friends who tried it would cheat every day. Of course they felt better than me because they were cheating lol.

Hippocrates was a great doctor because he was trying to instruct people how to become their own doctors using food and lifestyle as the only medicines. Occasionally, he'd prescribe mediterranean herbs. My health has probably been compromised longterm by all of these fake gurus like Dave Asprey, who I trusted because I was something like 19 years old and stupid.
 

Grow Bag

Kingfisher
I take issue with paleo, ray peat, and any other dogmatic dietician who claims that one food item is bad for all people. Now, of course canola oil is not really a "food item," so there are exceptions to things we just shouldn't be eating entirely. But since the beginning of agricultural civilization humans have eaten grain and lived to very long ages in good health. Pretty much every centenarian I've read about/heard about ate bread.
I've gone down the low carb, high fat route, but my metabolism just isn't made for it. I lose too much weight. The calories are too expensive compared to a balanced diet. I will say it was beneficial for me to go more or less carnivore, as it acted as an elimination diet and dampened food craving. It also took care of a lot of gut issues I was having and got me off the sugar merry-go-round. Cakes and pastries are my weakness and I feel so much better without them. The one food I keep coming to is bread, because I enjoy it and don't buy that's it's harmful. I don't eat just any old bread, wherever possible I buy good quality sourdough bread. As long as I don't pig out on it, I don't suffer in any way from eating it. As you say, it's the staff of life that we've been eating as a staple for thousands of years. If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I've gone down the low carb, high fat route, but my metabolism just isn't made for it. I lose too much weight. The calories are too expensive compared to a balanced diet. I will say it was beneficial for me to go more or less carnivore, as it acted as an elimination diet and dampened food craving. It also took care of a lot of gut issues I was having and got me off the sugar merry-go-round. Cakes and pastries are my weakness and I feel so much better without them. The one food I keep coming to is bread, because I enjoy it and don't buy that's it's harmful. I don't eat just any old bread, wherever possible I buy good quality sourdough bread. As long as I don't pig out on it, I don't suffer in any way from eating it. As you say, it's the staff of life that we've been eating as a staple for thousands of years. If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
The only diet that ever worked for me––and since I have detoxed and regained my health I no longer really follow it––is a low copper, low vitamin A diet. I did a hair test which looks at your mineral balance and determines what kind of metabolism you have. I have a slow metabolism (I am skinny––slow means that enzymatic processes are slow). I was doing a ray peat style diet which is high in vitamin A, sugar, copper, and calcium, and that is a death sentence for people with my metabolic rate. I switched up my diet to higher lean proteins, greens, grains, basically stuff with high zinc and b6 and felt a million times better.
 

kel

Ostrich
I've heard about the low vitamin A diet, but everything that seems nourishing in other ways has vitamin A in it (liver, eggs, etc), so I don't think I'll be able to try it.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
I've heard about the low vitamin A diet, but everything that seems nourishing in other ways has vitamin A in it (liver, eggs, etc), so I don't think I'll be able to try it.
Yeah liver is one of those things that I think should be eaten very sparingly. I was so stupid when I first got into this stuff and started blindly listening to Peat, that I thought because liver was so nutritious it would be good to eat a ton of it, and I think I poisoned myself from it. I started getting acne, hair falling out, dandruff, red splotches on skin. Literally all signs of vitamin A toxicity lol. Liver can be dangerous, people have died from eating liver of predator animals because of the amount of retinol they contain. In our world it might be unnecessary to eat it because we get so much vitamin A from other sources.
 

renotime

Ostrich
Gold Member
Everyone's constitution is different, I don't doubt that some people can't tolerate bread. Paleo did not work for me. When I did paleo I would end up eating way too much meat protein to compensate for calories, which I'm sure was hard on my kidneys. As soon as I introduced grains (wheat, rice, oats, etc.) I felt much better. I personally experience no ill effects from gluten.

I take issue with paleo, ray peat, and any other dogmatic dietician who claims that one food item is bad for all people. Now, of course canola oil is not really a "food item," so there are exceptions to things we just shouldn't be eating entirely. But since the beginning of agricultural civilization humans have eaten grain and lived to very long ages in good health. Pretty much every centenarian I've read about/heard about ate bread.

Again, lots of this attacking of sugar or starch or protein or fat is to sell books and does not address balance. It's not actually trying to help individuals who all have a different set of needs and a different constitution. I tried all these fad diets and each one made me sick. People could say I was "doing it wrong," but the thing is I was the only one doing it correctly, whereas all my friends who tried it would cheat every day. Of course they felt better than me because they were cheating lol.

Hippocrates was a great doctor because he was trying to instruct people how to become their own doctors using food and lifestyle as the only medicines. Occasionally, he'd prescribe mediterranean herbs. My health has probably been compromised longterm by all of these fake gurus like Dave Asprey, who I trusted because I was something like 19 years old and stupid.

How many calories were you eating in a given day? I don't really understand the point of eating pass satiation, unless you're on a bulk or whatever. And you really don't know if you are experiencing ill effects or until you get your blood tested. And how exactly did the paleo diet make you sick? I'm surprised that meat and veggies would make you ill, unless you were gorging.

Grains came about 20000 years ago. The average lifespan didn't go up past 60 until the 1800s. Probably wasn't the grains that caused that.

The fact of the matter is there are certain food that cause inflammation that will make you sick, which include sugar, trans fats, refined carbs, processed foods. Bread falls under processed food. You say people have different constitutions, but look at most people on the standard American diet. They're all of medication for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, bad thyroid, diabetes....the list goes on. If you get any food from a fast food place chances are it was deep fried in soybean oil. It's no wonder the number one cause of death in American is cardiovascular disease.

Now compare them to the Inuits and the hunter gatherers of today. Their diets are high in fat and protein. Heart disease is practically non existent.
 

inthefade

Robin
Orthodox Inquirer
Grass fed ghee for high temps, grass fed butter for everything else. I do still use olive oil to season cookware. I also like tallow when I can get some.
 

Don Quixote

Pelican
Orthodox Inquirer
How many calories were you eating in a given day? I don't really understand the point of eating pass satiation, unless you're on a bulk or whatever. And you really don't know if you are experiencing ill effects or until you get your blood tested. And how exactly did the paleo diet make you sick? I'm surprised that meat and veggies would make you ill, unless you were gorging.

Grains came about 20000 years ago. The average lifespan didn't go up past 60 until the 1800s. Probably wasn't the grains that caused that.

The fact of the matter is there are certain food that cause inflammation that will make you sick, which include sugar, trans fats, refined carbs, processed foods. Bread falls under processed food. You say people have different constitutions, but look at most people on the standard American diet. They're all of medication for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, bad thyroid, diabetes....the list goes on. If you get any food from a fast food place chances are it was deep fried in soybean oil. It's no wonder the number one cause of death in American is cardiovascular disease.

Now compare them to the Inuits and the hunter gatherers of today. Their diets are high in fat and protein. Heart disease is practically non existent.
You're cherry picking one difference among millions. You're saying because the Inuit don't eat it and they have no heart disease, bread must cause heart disease. That's not logical. If anything is going to be causing heart disease from inflammation it is toxic glyphosate, canola oil, insufficient micronutrients, lack of exercise, etc. There are so many other more important variables. To blame bread as the cause of American heart problems is preposterous.

If bread was that bad and the cause of the obesity and heart disease epidemic, it would have been noted 20,0000 years ago or whenever grains were first produced. Someone would have been saying this stuff makes us sick. Ok maybe mass production of grains depletes the bread of vitamins and minerals. I can buy that. But I don't think gluten is an issue for most people.

That said, I would agree it is not something to eat excessively. Actually, this thread has reminded me to cut back a bit and just focus on eating more sweet potatoes instead. And overall paleo is not a bad loose structure as long as you don't get really obsessive, because it helps to at least concentrate your diet on whole foods instead of processed sugary garbage.
 

911

Peacock
Gold Member
America's most widely consumed oil causes genetic changes in the brain. Soybean oil linked to metabolic and neurological changes in mice.


US NGOs spent $35 million pushing soy-based bread in Afghanistan as a replacement for regular bread... Now we know why.

 

iop890

Peacock
Gold Member
I use animal fats(tallow mostly, but also some duck fat on occasion) or butter/ghee for pretty much everything. I do keep some avocado oil around for some things though, when I want something with a higher smoke point. I've heard it's the healthiest non-animal based fat, though I'm no expert.

I'd keep high quality olive oils around if I cooked dishes that made use of them often, but I don't really trust the cheaper stuff.
 

LeBeau

Ostrich
Gold Member
I co-sign a lot of the above posts, so I can summarize by saying that you should stock up on these for cooking:

- Coconut Oil
- Avocado Oil
- High quality Olive Oil
- Grass Fed Butter/Ghee
- Animal fats (preferably raised on natural diet)

As well, salad dressings are a sneaky source of seed/vegetable oils. Switch out common cheap brands of salad dressings with Paleo style brands that use ingredients on the above list. You can also make your own at home.

You'll notice a big difference in skin quality, congestion, inflammation, etc.
 

02Hero

Sparrow
There are studies that show saturated fat causes temporary diabetes. While unsaturated fats do not. PUFA is burned off by the body quickly if you are active. E.g. arachidonic acid is used by the muscle and grows it.

Fatty red meat is high in arachidonic acid (PUFA).

A lot of Asian cultures use vegetable oils. Not saying they are the healthiest. But interesting nonetheless as they tend to do quite well in general.

PUFA is very bad for sedentary people because you will hold it in your fat. When stress hits you then your body releases a lot of it at once which can cause problems. For active people they will burn it up quick.
 
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