Are vegetable oils safe to eat?

aguy01

Pigeon
Orthodox
Anyone recommending a "one size fits all" diet is a charlatan. People have different genes that make them excel in digesting different things. MANY people will do far better on a high carb low fat diet. Many will do better on a low carb high fat diet. You should get your DNA tested by 23-and-me and send the results over to https://www.foundmyfitness.com/genetics for an indepth report. That said, 'balanced' diets are the least favorable, because carbs and fats are somewhat antagonistic and its usually better to favor one over the other.

Anecdotally, I have more genes correlated with a high carb diet according to my genetic report. Before I knew this, I experimented with every variation of low carb. I gained 45 lbs of fat on a carnivore diet over a 9 month period with zero carbs, while losing strength relative to my high carb days. On high carb, moderate protein, low fat (55c/30p/15f roughly) I feel tremendous, have great satiation, attention, digestion, etc.

Results WILL vary.

That said, canola oil and anything else that is overflowing with chemical solvents and bleach is bad news.
 
Last edited:

renotime

Hummingbird
Catholic
Gold Member
You're cherry picking one difference among millions. You're saying because the Inuit don't eat it and they have no heart disease, bread must cause heart disease. That's not logical. If anything is going to be causing heart disease from inflammation it is toxic glyphosate, canola oil, insufficient micronutrients, lack of exercise, etc. There are so many other more important variables. To blame bread as the cause of American heart problems is preposterous.

If bread was that bad and the cause of the obesity and heart disease epidemic, it would have been noted 20,0000 years ago or whenever grains were first produced. Someone would have been saying this stuff makes us sick. Ok maybe mass production of grains depletes the bread of vitamins and minerals. I can buy that. But I don't think gluten is an issue for most people.

That said, I would agree it is not something to eat excessively. Actually, this thread has reminded me to cut back a bit and just focus on eating more sweet potatoes instead. And overall paleo is not a bad loose structure as long as you don't get really obsessive, because it helps to at least concentrate your diet on whole foods instead of processed sugary garbage.

I still don't get how you would get sick from eating meats, fish and veggies. Maybe you dove in head first and it was a shock to your system.

And yes, I'm saying the food you eat will affect your health. And i'm not just blaming bread. Any food that causes your insulin to spike is bad for you.

Heart disease wasn't discovered until the 1700s. They probably didn't have the capabilities to figure out heart disease 20000 years ago.

If you look at the hunter gatherers that are still around today, none of them have grains in the diet and none of they rarely suffer from heart disease. It's not preposterous to think they are healthy because of their diet.

 

frankunderwood

Pigeon
Protestant
because the Inuit don't eat it and they have no heart disease, bread must cause heart disease. That's not logical. If anything is going to be causing heart disease from inflammation it is toxic glyphosate, canola oil, insufficient micronutrients, lack of exercise, etc. There are so many other more important variables. To blame bread as the cause of American heart problems is preposterous.

If bread was that bad and the cause of the obesity and heart disease epidemic, it would have been noted 20,0000 years ago or whenever grains were first produced. Someone would have been saying this stuff makes us sick. Ok maybe mass production of grains depletes the bread of vitamins and minerals. I can buy that. But I don't think gluten is an issue for most people.

The bread of today is not the bread of 200 years ago. The grains have been altered, they are grown in mono-crops with artificial fertilizer and killed off with glyphosate which is the main ingredient in round-up before harvesting to control for moisture content. Glyphosate is classified as a probable carcinogen. The flower is highly refined and all kinds of preservatives and usually sugar is added in the production process. This is why saying that if bread is bad we would have known it 20000 years ago is not a good argument.

As you point out inflammation is risk factor for heart disease. Elevated blood sugar over time also causes inflammation and also leads to glycation of LDL which causes plack build up leading to heart disease. (video is time stamped to the portion about the relationship between carbs and LDL, but the whole talk is interesting by itself)



I would encourage you to read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. He went all over the world in the 1930s and compared the health of people eating their ancestral diets and modern western food. He pointed out three food groups as the main culprits for the physical degeneration he found: 1) vegetable oils 2) white flour 3) refined sugar. Some of the populations with ancestral diets he studied also ate bread, like the Swiss and Gaelic. Their bread was however not made from modern white flour and often the flour was ground only a short time before the bread was made.

Just as a final note, I'm not trying to make the case that heart disease is not caused largely by seed oils in the US, rather that overcompensation of what goes for bread now a days and other simple sugars in general are a contributing factor.
 

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
The bread of today is not the bread of 200 years ago. The grains have been altered, they are grown in mono-crops with artificial fertilizer and killed off with glyphosate which is the main ingredient in round-up before harvesting to control for moisture content. Glyphosate is classified as a probable carcinogen. The flower is highly refined and all kinds of preservatives and usually sugar is added in the production process. This is why saying that if bread is bad we would have known it 20000 years ago is not a good argument.

As you point out inflammation is risk factor for heart disease. Elevated blood sugar over time also causes inflammation and also leads to glycation of LDL which causes plack build up leading to heart disease. (video is time stamped to the portion about the relationship between carbs and LDL, but the whole talk is interesting by itself)



I would encourage you to read Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price. He went all over the world in the 1930s and compared the health of people eating their ancestral diets and modern western food. He pointed out three food groups as the main culprits for the physical degeneration he found: 1) vegetable oils 2) white flour 3) refined sugar. Some of the populations with ancestral diets he studied also ate bread, like the Swiss and Gaelic. Their bread was however not made from modern white flour and often the flour was ground only a short time before the bread was made.

Just as a final note, I'm not trying to make the case that heart disease is not caused largely by seed oils in the US, rather that overcompensation of what goes for bread now a days and other simple sugars in general are a contributing factor.

I agree with you. Wheat is laced with glyphosate poison. I'm pretty sure even organic wheat contains residue due to proximity to other glyphosate using farms. I think oats, wheat, and corn are the worst offenders if I'm not mistaken.
 

Max Roscoe

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
I've been cutting out seed oils, but considering how much of our food supply is toxic and unhealthy, I wonder about food items with trace amounts of seed oils. For example, I just bought a bag of Blue Diamond Almonds which have "Almonds, Vegetable Oil (almond, canola, and/or safflower) and sea salt" as the ingredients.

I wonder how much bad oil they are really using this this stuff, and how harmful it is to me? Obviously the almond oil is not an issue, but the canola troubles me. Probably any processed food is bad for you at some level, and I hate to completely give up something like almonds. I should probably just buy a different brand of almond.

928264cd-4a58-46b7-a9b5-071eb57fd44d_2.b3388d1e342c284e3d73bd41133e76e3.jpeg


I've always been curious when ingredients list multiple oils "and/or". It never made sense that they swap up their ingredients but now that I understand how seed oils are just an industrial byproduct, I get it. They are just adding whatever is readily available / cheapest at the moment they are ready to package the product, and it has nothing to do with the taste or quality of the product.
 

Don Quixote

Ostrich
Orthodox Inquirer
Those heart healthy labels are always added to items that are not heart healthy. Like cheerios for example. It always has that little heart signal on it. Most of those have canola oil. Even regular cheerios, which lacks seed oils, is high in glyphosate, which in my opinion may even be worse than seed oils.
 

frankunderwood

Pigeon
Protestant
I've been cutting out seed oils, but considering how much of our food supply is toxic and unhealthy, I wonder about food items with trace amounts of seed oils. For example, I just bought a bag of Blue Diamond Almonds which have "Almonds, Vegetable Oil (almond, canola, and/or safflower) and sea salt" as the ingredients.

I wonder how much bad oil they are really using this this stuff, and how harmful it is to me? Obviously the almond oil is not an issue, but the canola troubles me. Probably any processed food is bad for you at some level, and I hate to completely give up something like almonds. I should probably just buy a different brand of almond.

928264cd-4a58-46b7-a9b5-071eb57fd44d_2.b3388d1e342c284e3d73bd41133e76e3.jpeg


I've always been curious when ingredients list multiple oils "and/or". It never made sense that they swap up their ingredients but now that I understand how seed oils are just an industrial byproduct, I get it. They are just adding whatever is readily available / cheapest at the moment they are ready to package the product, and it has nothing to do with the taste or quality of the product.

I read the first salted almond recipe result on quant. First the almonds are baked after being coated with salt dissolved in water. When the almonds are finished baking they are salted again and oil is added to make the salt stick to the almonds and make them give a look of being roasted. The recipe for making salted almonds calls for olive oil so you could make your own and avoid seed oils that way.
 
I am going to try out 'peanut oil', have a small bottle of it waiting to be opened - is that one safe? It tolerates high temperatures well.

Love peanut oil. Totally fine to use. I've fried thanksgiving turkies in them before. Delicious.

I've been getting pretty obsessed with the seed oil topic for the past few months and no, peanut oil isn't fine to use.

It isn't complicated. Do not use any oils that are from seeds or beans. Regardless whether they are cold pressed or chemically extracted. While heated/refined oils are worse, it's the high polyunsaturated fats (PUFA) percentage which is the issue. PUFA is prone to oxidize in the body even if it is not heated, which can fuck you up in about a million different ways. The higher the PUFA content, the more toxic the oil.

The worst thing being a refined oil (heated several times during manufacture) which is then used to deep fry in restaurants and is heated up many more times over the course of a week or however long they keep it for. In one of the videos shared already shared in this thread the presenter shows that one large McDonalds french fries contains more cancer causing toxic aldehydes than about 15 cigarettes.

As you can see below peanut oil is still 34% PUFA, which while better than some such as sunflower, soybean etc is still way about anything we'd get naturally other than eating certain nuts and should be avoided.

The higher the saturation of the fat = the less prone to oxidation and the better for you. IMO the best being beef tallow rendered from suet (kidney fat). I've been making my own and it is basically like wax/soap. Rock hard and brittle when the fridge, still solid at room temp even in a hot climate.

Unrefined coconut is actually a higher saturated fat (SFA) content than any animal fat however I feel tallow is still preferable due to having higher fat soluble vitamin content and the fact that our ancestors would have evolved eating animal fats and would have had no access to tropical fats such as coconut (assuming European lineage).

One final thing to consider is that today's commercially raised chicken/pork is fed corn/soy, as such the PUFA from this unnatural feed builds up in their fat cells as they are mono-gastric animals (the same as us). I remember reading somewhere that some pork fat has been tested and found to be around 30% PUFA. Ruminant animals such as cows have the ability through their gut bacteria to convert the garbage corn/soy feed from PUFA to SFA. Another reason why I would opt for tallow over say lard.


oil-comparison-chart.jpg
 

The Beast1

Peacock
Orthodox Inquirer
Gold Member
I've been getting pretty obsessed with the seed oil topic for the past few months and no, peanut oil isn't fine to use.

It isn't complicated. Do not use any oils that are from seeds or beans. Regardless whether they are cold pressed or chemically extracted. While heated/refined oils are worse, it's the high polyunsaturated fats (PUFA) percentage which is the issue. PUFA is prone to oxidize in the body even if it is not heated, which can fuck you up in about a million different ways. The higher the PUFA content, the more toxic the oil.

The worst thing being a refined oil (heated several times during manufacture) which is then used to deep fry in restaurants and is heated up many more times over the course of a week or however long they keep it for. In one of the videos shared already shared in this thread the presenter shows that one large McDonalds french fries contains more cancer causing toxic aldehydes than about 15 cigarettes.

As you can see below peanut oil is still 34% PUFA, which while better than some such as sunflower, soybean etc is still way about anything we'd get naturally other than eating certain nuts and should be avoided.

The higher the saturation of the fat = the less prone to oxidation and the better for you. IMO the best being beef tallow rendered from suet (kidney fat). I've been making my own and it is basically like wax/soap. Rock hard and brittle when the fridge, still solid at room temp even in a hot climate.

Unrefined coconut is actually a higher saturated fat (SFA) content than any animal fat however I feel tallow is still preferable due to having higher fat soluble vitamin content and the fact that our ancestors would have evolved eating animal fats and would have had no access to tropical fats such as coconut (assuming European lineage).

One final thing to consider is that today's commercially raised chicken/pork is fed corn/soy, as such the PUFA from this unnatural feed builds up in their fat cells as they are mono-gastric animals (the same as us). I remember reading somewhere that some pork fat has been tested and found to be around 30% PUFA. Ruminant animals such as cows have the ability through their gut bacteria to convert the garbage corn/soy feed from PUFA to SFA. Another reason why I would opt for tallow over say lard.


oil-comparison-chart.jpg
Here's a thought, have you considered boiling all of your proteins? It's the healthiest option! No oils whatsoever!

1650637427217.png

I swear with the zealotry on this topic. I've got a cupboard filled with tallow, lard, ghee, canola, avocado, walnut, sunflower, flax, crisco (best for seasoning cast iron) ,peanut, olive, coconut, sesame, and my favorite DUCK.
I use these for a variety of different purposes in ultimately looking for what tastes the best for the end product.

And even with all of these varieties of fat for cooking, my cholesterol levels are still too low!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to enjoy some peanut oil deep fried turkey once a year while I push 225lbs on my squat.
 
Last edited:

MartyMcFly

Ostrich
Other Christian
Here's a thought, have you considered boiling all of your proteins? It's the healthiest option! No oils whatsoever!

View attachment 40719

I swear with the zealotry on this topic. I've got a cupboard filled with tallow, lard, ghee, canola, avocado, walnut, sunflower, flax, crisco (best for seasoning cast iron) ,peanut, olive, coconut, sesame, and my favorite DUCK.
I use these for a variety of different purposes in ultimately looking for what tastes the best for the end product.

And even with all of these varieties of fat for cooking, my cholesterol levels are still too low!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to enjoy some peanut oil deep fried turkey once a year while I push 225lbs on my squat.
I mostly bake meat because this is easier and healthier. I cut it up first to save time. It is a bit dry because I usually don't add oil to it, but I don't mind meat being a bit dry. Chicken leg quarters have enough fat on them to not even need oil anyways.

Boiling works well also and is pretty easy and tasty if made as a soup (plain boiled meat is a bit boring).
 

nordle

Sparrow
Catholic
Roosh really opened my eyes on the seed oil topic. I can get good olive oil for €3/$3 per litre. I buy it by the case and only cook with it if I need to use an oil.
 

Jackie Jr

Chicken
Protestant
Peat is a fan of saturated fats. The issue is our culture demonizes one macronutrient for some reason, maybe to scapegoat what’s really wrong.

Sugar is not inherently bad, nor is fat. In excess, anything is bad.

The problem with our culture is spiritual disease which wreaks havoc on people’s relationship to food. People are gluttonous and addicted to foods that provide no nutritional value yet are extremely high in calories. Obese people are literally starving of micronutrients, so their hypothalamus doesn’t shut off the “hunger” signal. They’re literally starving to death so they keep overeating non-satisfying foods that eventually kill them.

Not to mention our water supply and food supply is largely poisonous from other chemicals that disrupt the endocrine system. It’s a total mess.

I find just buying healthy food in this country is my biggest monetary expense. It’s like they literally make it hard to eat normally here.
This is a terrific post.
 

pero2pero

Chicken
Oriental Orthodox
Mediterranean area products all include olive oil. Greeks make excellent "liquid gold" and others.

So many health benefits from Olive oil. No wonder it is in the Mediterranean diet!
 

CentreD

Chicken
Orthodox Inquirer
We avoid processed vegetable oils.

But consume avocado and olive oil.

Since we're making most of our food, it's not hard to do.
 
Top