Asteroid Impact That Killed the Dinosaurs: New Evidence

[911]

Yes but can those people do the splits like Eric Dubay?

 

[Mercenary]

Back on topic...here are some ideas to consider:

From this website
http://thetechreader.com/top-ten/top-ten-scientific-flaws-in-the-theory-of-prehistoric-dinosaurs/

Top Ten Scientific Flaws In The Theory of Prehistoric Dinosaurs

10.
An extinction-level event of this magnitude would have destroyed all life on Earth, not just the dinosaurs; this would be evident archaeologically.

9.
There would not have been enough food or fresh water for plant-based animals this big to have lived

8.
No one is allowed to question the Dinosaur Orthodoxy without extremely harsh criticism

7.
Dinosaurs were too big to have existed with the confines of the laws of physics

6.
Lack of perpetual fossil evidence - everyone should be finding these bones in their backyards

5.
Radiocarbon dating, also known as Carbon-14 Dating, cannot date back longer than 40,000 years

4.
Dinosaurs did not exist in mythology in any culture before the 1800s

3.
A full skeleton or a dinosaur has never been found - not even close to one

2.
There is more evidence for the presupposition of dinosaurs than the other way around

1.
Even an extinction-level event would not have destroyed the dinosaurs who lived in the deep-ocean

...

 

[Mercenary]

Article from Time magazine:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1888548,00.html

China's Dinosaur Fossils: Vast, but Are They Real?

By Jessie Jiang and Simon Elegant Sunday, Apr. 05, 2009


The Tianyu Natural History Museum doesn't look like the repository of a scientific treasure trove. A nondescript brick building in Pingyi, a secluded town 430 miles (692 km) southwest of Beijing, its doors are guarded by two groggy security guards who spend their day flipping through newspapers and sipping tea. There are no curators or guides giving tours of the museum's 28 exhibit halls, and only a handful of visitors on a Sunday afternoon. But Tianyu is not short on natural history. In one hall alone, 480 dinosaur fossils are randomly placed in glass cases or left in the open air around a room the size of a basketball court, along with Triassic fish and other more recent fossils, primarily from different parts of China. "We are the world's number one," says Zheng Xiaoting, director and keeper of the Tianyu (which means "universe" in Chinese) Natural History Museum's collection of thousands of dinosaur fossils. Though no official records of the collection's number exist, several Chinese paleontologists echo Zheng's claim that Tianyu houses the world's largest collection of dinosaur fossils. "In 10 years' time," says Zheng, who runs the largest business in town, a lucrative state-owned gold mine, which owns the museum, "Tianyu will really put our small town on the world map." If the world will have them. Tianyu has purchased most of its fossil collection from individuals — an illegal practice permitted by authorities only because it is technically a state-owned institution. More problematic, however, is that there is no way of knowing how many of those fossils are real. Chinese scientists say fake fossils are so pervasive in Chinese museums that using authenticity as the basis for judging a collection's worth is unrealistic. "Granted, there are many fakes and processed [fossils] in Tianyu, like everywhere else in China," says Xu Xing, a paleontologist at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, who is part of a team that discovered primitive dinosaur feathers in fossils that are now housed at Tianyu. "But I was truly astonished by the caliber of its real and valuable collections...It probably has a larger collection of complete fossil skeletons than any other museum in the world."

In the late 1970s, China's economic reform and opening up spurred a fervor of fossil-hunting among impoverished peasants, who began selling their finds to the highest bidders — state institutions, private individuals and foreigners alike. Since then, numerous dinosaur and bird fossils have been identified in the northeast province of Liaoning, and the southwest regions of Guizhou and Yunnan have become well known for their massive output of Triassic marine-life fossils. Fakery became a natural part of this lucrative business, and several Chinese paleontologists say fakes, typically made into the shape of bones using plastic, charcoal and construction materials, now make up the majority of institutional fossil collections China. And though China's vast land mass means there are probably still plenty of valuable and legitimate fossils out there, China's fossil rush might already be a thing of the past. In 2002, the government tightened its cultural-relics law to ban private fossil-trading, drying up both legal and black-market trade. Zheng declines to give an estimate for what percentage of Tianyu's collection could be fakes, but says he and his staff have started to label — but not remove — those that have proven not to be the real deal. To cope with the drastically shrinking market, Zheng says the museum will gradually shift its focus to scientific research, cooperating with the Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS) to study dinosaurs and early birds. After all, Zheng says, it was never about the money. "I don't care for Mercedes," he says when asked why he drives a battered VW Santana 2000. "If I ever have an extra dime, I will use it on fossils."

 

[911]

Back on topic...here are some ideas to consider:

From this website
http://thetechreader.com/top-ten/top-ten-scientific-flaws-in-the-theory-of-prehistoric-dinosaurs/

Top Ten Scientific Flaws In The Theory of Prehistoric Dinosaurs

10.
An extinction-level event of this magnitude would have destroyed all life on Earth, not just the dinosaurs; this would be evident archaeologically.

9.
There would not have been enough food or fresh water for plant-based animals this big to have lived

8.
No one is allowed to question the Dinosaur Orthodoxy without extremely harsh criticism

7.
Dinosaurs were too big to have existed with the confines of the laws of physics

6.
Lack of perpetual fossil evidence - everyone should be finding these bones in their backyards

5.
Radiocarbon dating, also known as Carbon-14 Dating, cannot date back longer than 40,000 years

4.
Dinosaurs did not exist in mythology in any culture before the 1800s

3.
A full skeleton or a dinosaur has never been found - not even close to one

2.
There is more evidence for the presupposition of dinosaurs than the other way around

1.
Even an extinction-level event would not have destroyed the dinosaurs who lived in the deep-ocean

...

There's PLENTY of evidence for the existence of dinosaurs, you're just not looking hard enough:

 

[realologist]

There's no doubt dinosaurs existed. They were obviously called dragons in the past which makes a lot of sense if you look at dinosaur fossils especially flying ones.

What about dinosaur fossils in the bottom of rivers and other unreachabke spots they can't get them from without damaging the fossils. I've seen them for myself in Colorado.

Not everything is a conspiracy theory.

I doubt dinosaurs died as a result of a meteor though. If you look at oxygen levels throughout Earth's history the oxygen levels drop very quickly right around the time a lot of dinosaurs die. Animals that large need extra oxygen to survive. Same thing as with when insects were much larger. The other dinosaurs most likely died to the significant climate changes. Ice Age being one of them.

Animals that large can survive as well. Think of all the ancient bears, dire wolves, giant wild cats, ancient boars that were the size of cows.

The reason why fossils aren't everywhere is because they pretty much need a perfect storm to occur. That's why they appear more in certain areas that have the elements needed.

Again this is like flat earth, a conspiracy for the sake of a conspiracy not because there is anything real here.

 

[TravelerKai]

Don't be like them Merc.

This hoax must have been started by the demons that came from the Hadron Collider

...

Do you guys realize you are beefin over dinosaur fossils? Do you realize how foolish this makes you two look?

If you guys need something constructive to do, send me a PM.

 

[Mercenary]

A different theory discusses the idea that large land animals such dragons were very real, but are not millions of years old, but rather are only a few thousands years old. This would explain how the myth of the dragon exists in so many different (non connected) human cultures across the globe.

Here is a indie documenatary examining legends of "dragons" in various parts of the globe, (for instance Alexander the Great seeing dragons in India, the Chinese myths of the woman Nüwa and the man Fuxi driving dragons out of China, as well as quotes from old scientific books from the 1500s saying that dragons were rare but still existed) as well as interviews with modern researchers (geologists) who have examined and cut open dinosaur (dragon ?) bones and disagree with the official scientific narrative.






We take so much of what we think we know since childhood at face value without ever questioning it, so I think these questions are important to examine and ponder.

Also, the fact that dinosaurs are powerfully and relentlessly marketed to children as "fun entertainment" is what makes me most suspicious.
The stuff we grow up with and have the most nostalgic childhood attachemnts to, is often the things we are most reluctant to admit were false.

 

[cascadecombo]

Proof of live dinosaurs.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5T8mGIflUaU

 

[CaptainChardonnay]

This thread is the lulz
opcorn3:

 

[realologist]

Didn't you guys hear about the park two years ago. A lot of people died. Tragic, tragic event.

 

[weambulance]

There's no doubt dinosaurs existed. They were obviously called dragons in the past which makes a lot of sense if you look at dinosaur fossils especially flying ones.

What about dinosaur fossils in the bottom of rivers and other unreachabke spots they can't get them from without damaging the fossils. I've seen them for myself in Colorado.

Not everything is a conspiracy theory.

I doubt dinosaurs died as a result of a meteor though. If you look at oxygen levels throughout Earth's history the oxygen levels drop very quickly right around the time a lot of dinosaurs die. Animals that large need extra oxygen to survive. Same thing as with when insects were much larger. The other dinosaurs most likely died to the significant climate changes. Ice Age being one of them.

:highfive:

Yep. I read all the published literature I could find about the K-T extinction in college and I came away thinking the meteor story is pretty damn thin. The entire basis of the theory goes back to one or two papers by the same author from, what, the 70s or so? It's been awhile so I don't remember the details well.

As I recall, dinosaurs died out in the fossil record over a period of about 1 million years and those die offs were not always particularly close to the tektites that are thought to be from the Chicxulub impact, which you would expect if it was a catastrophic die-off. There was also all kinds of massive volcanism around then, like the Deccan Traps, and I concluded it was more likely there was some kind of long term atmospheric and/or climate shift that killed off most of the dinosaurs over hundreds of thousands or a couple million years.

 

[weambulance]

Top Ten Scientific Flaws In The Theory of Prehistoric Dinosaurs

10.
An extinction-level event of this magnitude would have destroyed all life on Earth, not just the dinosaurs; this would be evident archaeologically.

That's a completely unsupported, naive statement to make. I should not have to explain why. And nobody said just the dinosaurs died out.

http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/Communication/Goddard/page1.html

That's a poorly formatted site that's hard to read but it does list a bunch of other stuff that disappeared in the K-T extinction.

9.
There would not have been enough food or fresh water for plant-based animals this big to have lived

Um... citation? Some maths maybe?

8.
No one is allowed to question the Dinosaur Orthodoxy without extremely harsh criticism

Really? The notion of exactly what dinosaurs are has shifted significantly over the past 150 years. How did that happen if nobody is allowed to question the "dinosaur orthodoxy"?

7.
Dinosaurs were too big to have existed with the confines of the laws of physics

Citation please.

6.
Lack of perpetual fossil evidence - everyone should be finding these bones in their backyards

Ah, here we go, finally something that at least has a modicum of sense even if it is still completely wrong. More than 65 million years is enough time for an awful lot of geological change. The Atlantic was substantially narrower back then. Uplift, erosion, sedimentation, lithification, more erosion, exposure, there ya go, some fossils are available to find. I'm sure there are many dinosaur fossils layered throughout the sedimentary rock in the world, they just haven't been exposed yet.

You don't just dig up 65-250 million year old fossils from dirt in the back forty.

5.
Radiocarbon dating, also known as Carbon-14 Dating, cannot date back longer than 40,000 years

LOL. So? There are other methods brah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating#Modern_dating_methods

4.
Dinosaurs did not exist in mythology in any culture before the 1800s

Okay? I don't know if that's true, but geology is quite a young science. What passed for geology before about the 1800s was pretty sad, and the science is still changing fairly rapidly as new tools and techniques come about.

3.
A full skeleton or a dinosaur has never been found - not even close to one

Archaeopteryx

2.
There is more evidence for the presupposition of dinosaurs than the other way around

I don't know what that means or how it is relevant. This is some claim of confirmation bias, I guess? How does that work? I thought nobody thought about dinosaurs until the 1800s?

1.
Even an extinction-level event would not have destroyed the dinosaurs who lived in the deep-ocean

That's a convenient, evidence free statement that suggests zero understanding of how tied together all life is. And it is seemingly contradicted by point 10 above.

--

That was a pretty weak list. Half the points are just total ass pulls.

 

[Repo]

Dropping oxygen levels are consistant with a large meteor strike as the dust clouds would wipe out plants too.

 

[realologist]

Top Ten Scientific Flaws In The Theory of Prehistoric Dinosaurs

10.
An extinction-level event of this magnitude would have destroyed all life on Earth, not just the dinosaurs; this would be evident archaeologically.

That's a completely unsupported, naive statement to make. I should not have to explain why. And nobody said just the dinosaurs died out.

http://palaeo.gly.bris.ac.uk/Communication/Goddard/page1.html

That's a poorly formatted site that's hard to read but it does list a bunch of other stuff that disappeared in the K-T extinction.

9.
There would not have been enough food or fresh water for plant-based animals this big to have lived

Um... citation? Some maths maybe?

8.
No one is allowed to question the Dinosaur Orthodoxy without extremely harsh criticism

Really? The notion of exactly what dinosaurs are has shifted significantly over the past 150 years. How did that happen if nobody is allowed to question the "dinosaur orthodoxy"?

7.
Dinosaurs were too big to have existed with the confines of the laws of physics

Citation please.

6.
Lack of perpetual fossil evidence - everyone should be finding these bones in their backyards

Ah, here we go, finally something that at least has a modicum of sense even if it is still completely wrong. More than 65 million years is enough time for an awful lot of geological change. The Atlantic was substantially narrower back then. Uplift, erosion, sedimentation, lithification, more erosion, exposure, there ya go, some fossils are available to find. I'm sure there are many dinosaur fossils layered throughout the sedimentary rock in the world, they just haven't been exposed yet.

You don't just dig up 65-250 million year old fossils from dirt in the back forty.

5.
Radiocarbon dating, also known as Carbon-14 Dating, cannot date back longer than 40,000 years

LOL. So? There are other methods brah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating#Modern_dating_methods

4.
Dinosaurs did not exist in mythology in any culture before the 1800s

Okay? I don't know if that's true, but geology is quite a young science. What passed for geology before about the 1800s was pretty sad, and the science is still changing fairly rapidly as new tools and techniques come about.

3.
A full skeleton or a dinosaur has never been found - not even close to one

Archaeopteryx

2.
There is more evidence for the presupposition of dinosaurs than the other way around

I don't know what that means or how it is relevant. This is some claim of confirmation bias, I guess? How does that work? I thought nobody thought about dinosaurs until the 1800s?

1.
Even an extinction-level event would not have destroyed the dinosaurs who lived in the deep-ocean

That's a convenient, evidence free statement that suggests zero understanding of how tied together all life is. And it is seemingly contradicted by point 10 above.

--

That was a pretty weak list. Half the points are just total ass pulls.

Left: Merc
Right: weambulance

 

[Mercenary]

If we examine pre 19th century art in ancient cultures across the globe we find lots of dragons, but zero dinosaurs


Dragons on ancient Aztec temples in Mexico

Dragons on ancient Hindu temples in Bali, Indonesia

[img=999x700]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Et1NmZ0T2jk/VIjC4ooSwLI/AAAAAAAAD7g/d-Lzjf4h-Mc/s1600/2PA240084.jpg[/img]


Dragons at the Entrance of the Great Muslim Mosque in Xian, China

Dragon in aboriginal rock art, Australia

Dragon on a ancient church fresco in Capodoccia Turkey

[img=999x700]http://c8.alamy.com/comp/A79EKG/wal...rch-goreme-cappadocia-turkey-A79EKG.jpg[/img]


Dragon in Debre Birhan Selassie Church in Gondar, Ethiopia

[img=999x700]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Flickr_-_don_macauley_-_St._George.jpg[/img]


Dragon fresco in medieval Church in Italy

[img=999x700]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...he_Fight_with_the_Dragon_-_WGA19749.jpg[/img]

 

[Mercenary]

That was a pretty weak list. Half the points are just total ass pulls.

I did not write that 10 point list...I quoted it from another website for discussion in this thread.
See the link on previous page.

 

[weambulance]

Re: the art, so what? You're going to have to explain that one a bit better because I don't understand your point.

 

[Mercenary]

Re: the art, so what? You're going to have to explain that one a bit better because I don't understand your point.

Don't you think it's awfuly strange that all these ancient human cultures that were separated by oceans and mountains living on totally different continents, which had barely any contact with eachother, spoke completely different languages and had vastly different religions, all somehow came up with the same exact "fake" mythical animal to depict in their holy artwork ?

You want to tell me that's pure coincidence ?


No, it indicates that such a huge frightening creature actually existed in human times and was feared and talked by people worldwide until at least 400 to 800 years ago.

 

[realologist]

So your telling me in you believe in dragons that are hundreds of years old with no evidence but paintings and aetifacts but don't believe in dinosaurs with all kinds of fossils when the artwork looks very similar to a lot of dinosaurs. Hmmmmm.

 

[weambulance]

Dragons are not the same in mythology, though. They're quite different morphologically between the different myth systems. Some dragons have legs, some don't. Some are more snakelike, others are stockier, more like big muscular lizards. Dragons don't even always have wings.

I think it's much more likely people thought up "Big lizard / snake creature" across many different cultures and we're calling them all dragons now because of the superficial similarity. In other words, I think you have your causality backwards here. Many different cultures didn't come up with the exact same dragon myths, we just lump big lizard/snake myths together because we think of that sort of thing as a dragon.

If something like that existed as recently as 500 years ago, there would absolutely be some remains available. People would've collected some skin or bones--actual honest to goodness bones, not fossils, which are not the same thing--or especially skulls from dragons they found dead in the woods. There would probably be nobles who got their titles for faking killing such a beast. And of course, there would be a lot more contemporary tales of people actually fighting them, because humans weren't exactly savages with sharpened sticks 500 years ago.

Giants and ogre-like creatures are pretty common in different mythological systems too, but I don't see anyone claiming giants were real. Unless you count people with hormone problems that grow 8+ feet tall and die at 25.


Edit - Even in the examples of art you showed, there are major morphological differences. So it's pretty clear they're not the same creatures at all.