Based Christianity for Beginners

[Nacho]

For all the people here complaining about 'cucked' Christianity you could always join us here in the Eastern Orthodox corner. I escaped the cult of evangelical Christianity as well after seeing it's obvious faulty foundation. I briefly looked at Catholism but saw a lot of the same problems. Orthodoxy has pretty much remained the same since the time of the apostles and represents the fullness of faith handed down.

 

[NoMoreTO]

For all the people here complaining about 'cucked' Christianity you could always join us here in the Eastern Orthodox corner. I escaped the cult of evangelical Christianity as well after seeing it's obvious faulty foundation. I briefly looked at Catholism but saw a lot of the same problems. Orthodoxy has pretty much remained the same since the time of the apostles and represents the fullness of faith handed down.

This isn't a site for religious debate. Don't incite people to be pissed off, things happen naturally sometimes, but you're out of line.

Catholics have issues with the Pope right now there are lots of educated people on here who can fire back on things like this, then things just devolve.

If you want to be all pro orthodox and knock other Faiths then go to ortho thread.

 

[Nacho]

For all the people here complaining about 'cucked' Christianity you could always join us here in the Eastern Orthodox corner. I escaped the cult of evangelical Christianity as well after seeing it's obvious faulty foundation. I briefly looked at Catholism but saw a lot of the same problems. Orthodoxy has pretty much remained the same since the time of the apostles and represents the fullness of faith handed down.

This isn't a site for religious debate. Don't incite people to be pissed off, things happen naturally sometimes, but you're out of line.

Catholics have issues with the Pope right now there are lots of educated people on here who can fire back on things like this, then things just devolve.

If you want to be all pro orthodox and knock other Faiths then go to ortho thread.

Well it's just an opinion and I'm offering one. This is a thread about 'based' Christianity and I'm seeing complaints from other posters about their denominations. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Athanasius]

Protestantism is viewed by EMJ as Judaizing. There is a lot of Zionism in Protestantism, and USA is currently the muscly brutish brother of Israel. Think of LBJ, the guy was off the hook pro Israel.

Yes, this is one of his most absurd views. He calls the Puritans this when they were the opposite of it. That's assuming we're using the Biblical definition of the term and not confounding it with seeking to live a holy/sanctified life.

In my church there aren't any nominal believers. That is, we don't have members who just pop in for Christmas and Easter or who evidence little interest in the faith. They study and know their faith to some degree.

In the megachurch world, which I'm very familiar with, you are going to have some devout, a few nominals, but mostly more average, if not always strongly devout or well-instructed people. A big church can be a place one hides from accountability.

Mainlines today have a few old, faithful believers, some old nominals, and some hostile people (including the leadership) who are flat-out enemies of Christ. A generation ago, mainlines had a lot more members and I'd say nominals were the most common attendee. That's been my experience with a lot of RC's as well. EO I'm guessing is similar, although converts are a different story.

Long road to get to this point: I've seen and heard people go off and shipwreck themselves through sexual and other sins in all of the protestant denoms above and in my own church. The level of faithfulness and the percentages vary in the churches, but in all of them wheat and chaff will grow together until judgment. It was that way in the early church and it's that way now.

 

[bobmjilica]

I agree with NoMoreTO. This is not a place to criticize different denominations. The Orthodox Church may be the least cucked right now, but it has its problems that are becoming more and more apparent. Churches themselves are man made, and man is fallen, so of course there is always going to be some subversion in them.
Not that I’m against going to church, I’ve been going weekly the past few months. Papists like EMJ, as well as Orthodox people like Jay Dyer, and many Protestants, like to get into these debates, and yeah there is a time and place, but at a certain point it just becomes bizarre, unproductive, and turns beginners off from Christ. I highly respect Roosh for simply going back to the church he was born into, rather than researching all the intricacies of all the different denominations(which is why I am still Protestant, as that is where I was originally baptized). When you’re new to church it’s important to have humility and not view this as ‘shopping’ for a church.

 

[Emperor Constantine]

I highly respect Roosh for simply going back to the church he was born into, rather than researching all the intricacies of all the different denominations(which is why I am still Protestant, as that is where I was originally baptized). When you’re new to church it’s important to have humility and not view this as ‘shopping’ for a church.

Thomas à Kempis wrote in The Imitation of Christ, "Shun too great a desire for knowledge, for in it there is much fretting and delusion... The more you know and the better you understand, the more severely will you be judged, unless your life is also the more holy."

I'd say I wish someone slapped me in the face with that book when I was much younger, but I wouldn't have listened. I've spent an absolutely bizarre amount of time learning Church history, and I've become increasingly aware lately of how much of that learning has lead only to more confusion. Knowing lots of things is sometimes helpful, but that time would have been better spent seeking wisdom.

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

I agree with the sentiment that the search for too much knowledge can be a pointless burden, but I don’t think that applies to knowing which Churches have Apostolic succession and proper dogmas and which don’t. That’s a pretty basic distinction that determines whether the parishioner is partaking of the Body and Blood of Christ or just listening to a feel-good rock band with a motivational speech attached; ie, the enormous difference between Saintly wisdom and Joel Osteen levels of heresy. I don’t think God will negatively judge people who lack the capacity to make this distinction, but if you do have that - which I think every regular participant on these boards does - then being in a brazenly heretical group due to a lack of historical knowledge is really just laziness at the end of the day. All groups say a lot of true and correct things, but minor differences make a big difference - like if a plane’s gauge of where to land is off by a couple degrees, it ends up in the airport instead of on the runway.

 

[NoMoreTO]

I was talking to a guy at a bar while I was eating dinner a few weeks ago and the topic turned to religion. A black guy from Africa, some kind of diplomat, I believe he was orthodox out of Egypt - or more accurately formerly Orthodox. He actually seemed to know a lot, he grew up with it. Anyway, the idea of Christ and Christianity visibly angered him. He started speaking a bunch of blasphemy, pretty harsh stuff I won't repeat. He was a little drunk, I wasn't drinking just came in for some food. Luckily my meal was done and bill paid so I got out of there.

I really wanted to punch the guy in the face. And I felt it would have been justified.

But I didn't. So I asked my Priest in a little group we are in because blasphemy came up. "When should you actually be defending our Lord?"

His answer was the default should be peaceful, and that to remember that people like this are actually trying to incite us. Turn the other cheek and pray for the person, leave the conversation because the guy is digging himself a deeper hole. But there are cases and moments where we need to physically intervene. He told a story of a Priest who used a filthy word or phrase to a woman who was falling away, and to this moment that woman says it straightened her up and she would have left if he didn't do that.

Seems like a difficult thing to discern, so I suppose we just wait for our moment. Drag Queen story time seems like that kind of moment, specifically if its YOUR town and you're not just going somewhere picking a fight. The guy beside me at the bar while I ate my dinner, probably not.

Has anyone else thought about this or gained insights on this ?

 

[Psalm27]

Anything by Father Josiah Trenham is worth reading, watching, and listening to. You have to be very careful who you follow on this journey, because heretics like Stephen Anderson can draw people in with their charisma long before you realize how twisted their beliefs actually are. I’ve seen a guy get sucked into Anderson’s horrible little world because he totally lacked discernment, only to later embrace Orthodoxy and be so ashamed of his Andersonite past that he won’t even talk about that period of his life. Anderson’s documentary “Marching To Zion” is well done and important, but I’d still avoid him completely except for that. And before someone says Anderson is just “based” and “a strong Christian man,” go watch Vatican Catholic’s YouTube video breaking down his beliefs and ministry. The guy is an unhinged lunatic who occasionally says correct things, and it’s unfortunate that those things happen to be things the rest of Christianity has generally stopped saying - hence how and why people are drawn to him in the first place.

Stick with priests who have genuine Apostolic succession, who spend all their time in the Scriptures and the Fathers, passing on what they’ve received with no innovations or additions of their own. That’s the only way you’ll receive what Christ and the Apostles taught in the proper context, without errors.

The Saints and Fathers wrote many times more books than you’ll ever realistically get through, even the small fraction of it that’s been translated to English, but St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press has done an excellent job making what’s available organized and translated properly. Their Patristics series is great and will keep you busy for a long time.

And I second the recommendation for E. Michael Jones as well, specifically on political and cultural topics, because his views on that are largely spot-on even if he and the Orthodox have theological and ecclesiastical disagreements.

Fully agree on Anderson. The amount of pride he has is off the charts. I can't tolerate him for more than 30 seconds. I suspect he is under heavy deception. He seems to be most popular with lapsed Christians who like his aggressiveness and angry style.

Pastor Anderson was the vessel of God by which I was led to salvation through the sinner's prayer. I also count you Roosh as one vessel by which I was put on the path to salvation.

But the most important thing for any follower of Christ is to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and remember that only through faith by grace are we saved. Admit that you are a sinner in need of a saviour. You cannot do any works to save yourself, the blood of the lamb is what saves you from eternal damnation.

Don't get too obsessed with following the doctrines of any man, as they are all flawed, only Christ is perfect. Yes, E. Michael Jones is flawed. Pastor Anderson is flawed. RooshV is flawed. We're all flawed, that's why God sent his only begotten Son to die for us.

 

[NoMoreTO]

It is true that our faith is like rags in comparison to God, and that he does not need them, nor us.

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

 

[Psalm27]

It is true that our faith is like rags in comparison to God, and that he does not need them, nor us.

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Our works are like filthy rags to the Lord. We are saved by grace through faith.

 

[Oaks]

"Faith without works is dead."

A lot of branches of Christianity(Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian) believe that works are needed also. How do you answer them?

 

[Psalm27]

"Faith without works is dead."

A lot of branches of Christianity(Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian) believe that works are needed also. How do you answer them?

Dead faith is still faith. Our righteousness is by grace through faith. The blood of the lamb is enough to cleanse us from our sins and give us eternal life. That's why Jesus said "It is finished" before he gave up the ghost at the cross (John 19:30).

Romans 4:8-9 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Matthew 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Augustus_Principe]

I don't understand how a person ignores 1500 years of knowledge(before Luther, 2000 years counting 500 years later) and meditation on Jesus Christ (Catholic or Orthodox) and choose to belong in a church other than those two. I will never understand it, especially being an avid History reader. When you read what the Church Fathers and countless saints have said, and the real history behind the "reformation" it becomes inevitable a person will join one or the other. But its ok, current history is proving that people are joining either the Catholic or Orthodox church.

In any case, anything by Father Ripperger is great. The Sensus Fidelium channel overall has truly enlightened me and thought me so much the past year since I found God Again. All Traditional based homilies and lectures. No modernist nonsense:

https://www.youtube.com/user/onearmsteve4192/videos

 

[fr0st]

I don't understand how a person ignores 1500 years of knowledge(before Luther, 2000 years counting 500 years later) and meditation on Jesus Christ (Catholic or Orthodox) and choose to belong in a church other than those two. I will never understand it, especially being an avid History reader. When you read what the Church Fathers and countless saints have said, and the real history behind the "reformation" it becomes inevitable a person will join one or the other. But its ok, current history is proving that people are joining either the Catholic or Orthodox church.

It's usually because they have been persuaded via propaganda over generation after generation (probably due to political reasons) to believe that Catholicism and Orthodoxy is some form of paganism because they can't comprehend the difference between worship and veneration. They think we literally worship statues, paintings, and the saints.

I run into countless baptists on twitter who call me a pagan or idolater just because I wear a crucifix necklace.

 

[Rob Banks]

As far as I know, Protestantism started shortly after the printing press was invented (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Because of the printing press, Bibles began to be printed a lot more and became affordable for the public, and people started wanting to eliminate the middle man (the priest) and read/interpret the Bible themselves (the "priesthood of all believers," as I believe the Protestants call it).

If a technological advancement as simple as the printing press had such a vast impact on society that entire European countries converted to a different religion (Protestantism), it is not at all surprising how modern technological advancements (post-Industrial Revolution) led to all the societal change we have seen in that time period.

 

[fr0st]

As far as I know, Protestantism started shortly after the printing press was invented (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Because of the printing press, Bibles began to be printed a lot more and became affordable for the public, and people started wanting to eliminate the middle man (the priest) and read/interpret the Bible themselves (the "priesthood of all believers," as I believe the Protestants call it).

If a technological advancement as simple as the printing press had such a vast impact on society that entire European countries converted to a different religion (Protestantism), it is not at all surprising how modern technological advancements (post-Industrial Revolution) led to all the societal change we have seen in that time period.

Luther broke away from Catholicism due to a handful of disagreements, one of the major ones was the Catholic practice of indulgences. To be fair, the Pope and leaders of the church at the time were extremely corrupt and were using the profits gained from selling indulgences to line their own pockets.

Luther taught that salvation and, consequently, eternal life are not earned by good deeds but are received only as the free gift of God's grace through the believer's faith in Jesus Christ as redeemer from sin. His theology challenged the authority and office of the Pope by teaching that the Bible is the only source of divinely revealed knowledge,[4] and opposed sacerdotalism by considering all baptized Christians to be a holy priesthood.[5] Those who identify with these, and all of Luther's wider teachings, are called Lutherans, though Luther insisted on Christian or Evangelical (German: evangelisch) as the only acceptable names for individuals who professed Christ.

Luther's translation of the Hebrew/Greek Bible into German and subsequent spreading of it to the laity is what first made the general public able to hear and read the word of god by themselves. Previously the only people who could read the bible where those that understood Latin, which meant it was only Priests themselves and wealthy scholars.

About 200,000 Luther Bibles were printed before he died. They were still quite expensive (1 cost about a month's worth of wages). But it finally enabled towns to post verses of the bible in their own tongue. The Luther Bible also inspired the eventual English King James Bible that is so popular today.

Due to how expensive a bible was at the time I don't think it's fair to give the printing press that much credit for the spreading of Lutheranism. There was a massive propaganda war on both sides (Luther and his allies vs. The Catholic Church). Eventually the Iconoclast movement happened during the reformation, although to their credit Lutherans in general did not agree with the destruction of the images/statues of christ and saints. This was mostly done by the Calvinists.

 

[MichaelWitcoff]

No Orthodox Christian believes that we earn salvation by doing good works, and those accusing us of doing so haven’t bothered to learn what we believe.

We believe exactly what the Bible says: that we are saved by a faith that expresses itself in good works, because faith without works is just lip service (“dead”). As we grow in faith and the works it produces we become more like Christ over time, which is a process we call theosis, “becoming by grace what He is by nature.”

That’s not the same thing as believing we are saved by our own works apart from God’s grace, which the Church anathematized as the heresy of Pelagianism. The Bible makes explicit lists of what kind of behavior gets you on God’s good or bad side in eternity, but simply doing those good behaviors doesn’t win you some kind of brownie points if you think you’re using them to buy salvation tokens from God.

Also, we do believe in the “priesthood of all believers” because everything the Scriptures say is true. They also separate that priesthood from the sacerdotal priesthood that can serve the Eucharist and excommunicate (“bind and loosen”), because the priests that give sacraments have a different role in that priesthood than the non-ordained.

 

[Athanasius]

I don't understand how a person ignores 1500 years of knowledge(before Luther, 2000 years counting 500 years later) and meditation on Jesus Christ (Catholic or Orthodox) and choose to belong in a church other than those two. I will never understand it, especially being an avid History reader. When you read what the Church Fathers and countless saints have said, and the real history behind the "reformation" it becomes inevitable a person will join one or the other. But its ok, current history is proving that people are joining either the Catholic or Orthodox church.

The reformers didn't see themselves as ignoring 1500 years of knowledge. They were well-versed in the church fathers such as Augustine and Athanasius. Thus Calvin, from the Institutes:

“Moreover, they unjustly set the ancient fathers against us (I mean the ancient writers of a better age of the church) as if in them they had supporters of their own impiety. If the contest were to be determined by patristic authority, the tide of victory—to put it very modestly—would turn to our side."

Calvin was particularly fond of Chrysostom's homilies.

The reformers saw themselves as part of the historic communion of saints. They were very historically learned and scholarly. Now, your point is very valid today, when people have little mooring in history. "Book learning" has fallen on hard times throughout the culture.

 

[Athanasius]

Luther broke away from Catholicism due to a handful of disagreements, one of the major ones was the Catholic practice of indulgences. To be fair, the Pope and leaders of the church at the time were extremely corrupt and were using the profits gained from selling indulgences to line their own pockets.

Indulgences lit a fuse but the major disagreements were over justification by faith alone (imputed vs. infused righteousness) and authority aka. sola scriptura (are the Scriptures or the church the final authority).

Interesting factoid... The indulgences being sold at that time were being used to fund the construction of St. Peters in Rome.