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<blockquote data-quote="bobmjilica" data-source="post: 1306208" data-attributes="member: 13035">@nomoreTO I agree with a lot of what you say, and the south is our strength, but most of the northern colonies such as the Plymouth colony were founded with a heavy focus on Christianity as well. Also, yes there was Masonic influence in the founding of our nation as well as in Protestantism as a whole, but it seems hypocritical for EMJ, a papist, to be criticizing us heavily for that, when the Vatican has so many secret societies, such as the Jesuits, as well as literal Jewish forced converts who still practice their Jewish faith (conversos). I ultimately think that the denominational debates are highly unproductive, but for Catholics to criticize our heritage as being riddled with secret societies seems a bit rich, when they have a ton themselves (and again I’m not really even criticizing them because they are still our brothers in Christ). In addition, even today, Protestant men of America are more religious and conservative on average, than catholic men.Also, I do not support the Masons obviously, and would never join them, but the idea that at the lower levels it is nothing more than a social fraternity for networking and connections is true. Many of the Masonic affiliations of the founders are also loose at best. George Washington, for example, attended like one meeting. Some were more Masonic than others. I know Thomas Jefferson was not even really much of a Christian. Some were more Christian than others.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bobmjilica, post: 1306208, member: 13035"] @nomoreTO I agree with a lot of what you say, and the south is our strength, but most of the northern colonies such as the Plymouth colony were founded with a heavy focus on Christianity as well. Also, yes there was Masonic influence in the founding of our nation as well as in Protestantism as a whole, but it seems hypocritical for EMJ, a papist, to be criticizing us heavily for that, when the Vatican has so many secret societies, such as the Jesuits, as well as literal Jewish forced converts who still practice their Jewish faith (conversos). I ultimately think that the denominational debates are highly unproductive, but for Catholics to criticize our heritage as being riddled with secret societies seems a bit rich, when they have a ton themselves (and again I’m not really even criticizing them because they are still our brothers in Christ). In addition, even today, Protestant men of America are more religious and conservative on average, than catholic men. Also, I do not support the Masons obviously, and would never join them, but the idea that at the lower levels it is nothing more than a social fraternity for networking and connections is true. Many of the Masonic affiliations of the founders are also loose at best. George Washington, for example, attended like one meeting. Some were more Masonic than others. I know Thomas Jefferson was not even really much of a Christian. Some were more Christian than others. [/QUOTE]

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