Becoming disillusioned with the Church. I want to avoid losing my faith.

TheMost

Robin
Mr. Banks. Your situation sounds familiar. You try everything, but there is no apparent change. You may be demon-possessed, but there is a much more likely explanation. There is a demon-posessed person in your life. Probably someone who is near and dear to you. And they are sabotaging you. You can't close the wound until the dagger is taken out of your heart. Malignant narcissists are extremely hard to detect until you know what to look for, but they are as deadly as any psychopath. It might be your mother, father, a relative. If you still have some contact with your ex, it might be her. Narcissists will drive you to an early grave, with almost perfect deniability. Here is an article that, for me, was a good starting point on the topic: http://www.anonymousconservative.com/blog/?p=725

Narcissists are possessed by Lucifer, an extremely high level and powerful demon described in the Bible. God speed. Hope this helps.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Get off the internet and do the hard work in real life. Whether it has to be therapy, addiction counseling, etc. You already said you were going to take a break from the forum and focus on this in the past, or am I wrong?
I think that was back in March I said I’d take a break from the forum.

I’ve been working with a priest to rid myself of demons and evil spirits, of which apparently I have a lot, by virtue of my own past actions, and also passed down to me from my ancestors.

Being on the internet less is definitely a good idea, though. The place where I’m currently staying is in the middle of the woods, so I try to spend as much time outdoors as possible, especially when I pray, read the Bible, etc.
...You may be demon-possessed, but there is a much more likely explanation. There is a demon-posessed person in your life...
Yes.

Well, not necessarily possessed, but heavily influenced.

The priest I’ve been speaking to, who I believe is also an exorcist, told me I am heavily influenced by demons, and that they most likely come from my parents and ancestors.

Also, my actions (drug use, sexual immorality, etc.) caused even more demons to gain control over me.
 
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Againstallodds

Robin
Orthodox
There is nothing beyond God for you to quit to. Atheism left me miserable, science isn't God and external pharmaceutical will always fail you. If I were in a truly desperate dark place in life with no family and truly no one to care about, I would join an orthodox monastery. Preferably one on a mountain or in a small village in a place ravaged by war like the middle East. I would sell all my belongings get enough money for a plane ticket and live a life of praying and helping people. I guarantee you will be a changed man in less than a year.
 

DeWoken

Robin
I have some input regarding diet and exercise.

Anecdotally, I kicked an drinking habit after going from paleo to carnivore. Eating raw, grass-fed ground beef, was a great way to fight cravings. It would be a smaller portion than a usual meal, ~200g. These days I don't bother with raw, just sometimes a bit rare.

They say raw meat uses different mechanisms to digest than cooked meat. If one mechanism is a bit broken the other one might still be quite functional. Part of the greatness of raw meat is the low amount of energy needed to "prepare a meal". Some people also say that raw meat "gives you energy" and that you shouldn't eat it for your last meal of the day. Raw liver is definitely interesting. I recommend slicing it while half-thawed and eating it that way is nice, too. It's beef sashimi. But some say that you shouldn't overdo it on liver because it can throw nutrients out of balance (iron, vitamin A). If you want to look up traditional raw meat cuisine check out sashimi, steak tartare and mettbrötchen.

What about leftovers, you say? Leftovers build up histamines which do bad things to the body. (Re-heating helps but doesn't entirely eradicate them).

The theory with axing the vegetables is that supposedly the fibre which "makes you feel full - great!" is actually harming your gut by being abrasive and chemically by bad fermentation. Sure cows can get everything they need from pasture but we sure can't. They have four stomachs and eat non-stop.

The OMAD or two meal a day frequency thing is in my opinion overrated. Sometimes two meals works great but three is better if I need more calories. I drink coffee (against most carnivore dieter's advice) but I carefully weigh out how much I have and rarely ever stray from that dose of 16-18g to start with and then 10-14g between meal 1 and meal 2. And it's organic: the Double Double is out. Dark chocolate is another vice that I try to carefully control. But all in all, I'm just glad not to be a drunk anymore. That was too expensive for my budget and I knew in the back of my mind that it was a slow suicide. So spending money on organic and grass-fed food didn't seem like that much of a problem anymore: I overcame the stingy demon, which afflicts my entire family.

For workouts I don't know that I'd recommend running. It has fallen out of vogue for many good reasons. If you think you need running (maybe in this political climate ... ) then train it. Moderate amounts of brisk walking is recommended. Strength training is better but I wouldn't get too ambitious. Injuries can happen and working out too hard can leave you stressed out. Remember that injuries can drastically lower your quality of life and set you back in terms of self-control.

Supplements are a whole discussion but people say that magnesium is hard to get in modern diets and that Mg glycinate helps people relax. Protein powders are not recommended (heavy metals) - save your money for quality meat. People are commonly lacking: vitamin K2, vitamin D, Mg, and Iodine (tricky). Meat eaters won't be lacking zinc but are probably lacking copper. Not many people should supplement vitamin A or calcium and multi-vitamins are not recommended (low quality ingredients, out of balance ratios).

Lastly, our brains and nerves are made out of fat. Your body keeps account over a long period of time of how much omega-6 fat vs. omega-3 fat you injest. Modern diets have way too much O6 compared to O3 fat, so you have a debt to make up of the good one, O3 fat. Different meats have different O6:O3 ratios. Wild fish is the obvious goldmine here. Try to eat that Pacific salmon once every week or two.

Even if you take a step back from the tech keep us posted once in a while eh? Good luck and God bless.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Rob, I'm not part of your discussions between you and the Deliverance Priest as it's none of my business, and I'm not asking for information and would suggest you keep it private, but I just was listening to something and found it interesting.

I was listening to someone tied up with Fr Ripperger who is an expert in Freemasonry, and he mentioned that the Freemason Curse can sometimes lie dormant through generations if 'blood sacrifice' hasn't activated it via trauma (sexual abuse, rape, death etc). What they often find happening is its activated when an Adult in the family line starts considering Jesus and returns to the Catholic Church. It is particularly common for Seminarians: a health young man will decide to become a Priest, then, suddenly, he'll get seriously-physically ill in a way that Doctors can't find any medical explanation for.

This is what happened to me. These curses are passed down along Patriarchal Lines, so, as the eldest male in my family line, I had a time bomb inside me that would never have been triggered as long as I never reapproached the Catholic Church.

Just keep it in mind. Don't be afraid. The fire is being flared up so it can be extinguished. If any discussions come up about Masonry, take the instruction seriously.
 
Rob.

There was another man who had constant frustration in battling the lure of his own demons. He left his account for you to read (Romans 7:14-25). This same man also had quite the sordid past, and he would never forget it. (1 Timothy 1:12-14. Acts 8:3. Acts 26:9-11)

Still not convinced? Read the account of King Manasseh at
2 Kings 21:3-9, 16, then read 2 Chronicles 33:11-13
You can't possibly be any worse then he was, but look what happened in the end, and why.

Rob; I don't care where you got your ideas from. Whoever told you that you have transgressed so severely that even the blood of the Lamb can't possibly redeem you - you have been taught a lie!

The moments when temptation is overtaking you, what is going through your mind? We're all sinful, but certain trigger points can start the downward spiral. Confronting memories leads to pain/torment of the mind, leads to guilt, leads to fear of abandonment by God, leads to "why bother trying?", leads to hopelessness and despair, leads to any ungodly action that can distract from the pain - maybe ask me another time how I know about this sequence.

Don't beat yourself up too badly, but don't go the other route and run away from the fight you must face - there's too much at stake.

And guess what?!... You will relapse a lot at first; it is a guarantee!

Here's an article that you must read. Just ignore the emphasis on doing this to improve SMV; do it so you can serve God better as a result of obtaining a better physical and spiritual state:


You've been struggling too long, Rob; it's time to end this.

We expect not to see you back in these forums for at least a few months, kid. Get yourself out of DM (Dumbass Mode), and come back to us later!

We'll be waiting for you.:)
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Rob.

There was another man who had constant frustration in battling the lure of his own demons. He left his account for you to read (Romans 7:14-25). This same man also had quite the sordid past, and he would never forget it. (1 Timothy 1:12-14. Acts 8:3. Acts 26:9-11)

Still not convinced? Read the account of King Manasseh at
2 Kings 21:3-9, 16, then read 2 Chronicles 33:11-13
You can't possibly be any worse then he was, but look what happened in the end, and why.

Rob; I don't care where you got your ideas from. Whoever told you that you have transgressed so severely that even the blood of the Lamb can't possibly redeem you - you have been taught a lie!

The moments when temptation is overtaking you, what is going through your mind? We're all sinful, but certain trigger points can start the downward spiral. Confronting memories leads to pain/torment of the mind, leads to guilt, leads to fear of abandonment by God, leads to "why bother trying?", leads to hopelessness and despair, leads to any ungodly action that can distract from the pain - maybe ask me another time how I know about this sequence.

Don't beat yourself up too badly, but don't go the other route and run away from the fight you must face - there's too much at stake.

And guess what?!... You will relapse a lot at first; it is a guarantee!

Here's an article that you must read. Just ignore the emphasis on doing this to improve SMV; do it so you can serve God better as a result of obtaining a better physical and spiritual state:


You've been struggling too long, Rob; it's time to end this.

We expect not to see you back in these forums for at least a few months, kid. Get yourself out of DM (Dumbass Mode), and come back to us later!

We'll be waiting for you.:)
Thanks for the response.

Did you refer to me as “kid”? I wish. I’m almost 30. I would have been far better off having these conversations when I was still young enough to be called “kid.”

I have been talking to a priest who specialized in delivering people from demons. I will ask and obey his advice in terms of whether or not I should be posting on the forum.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
I wasn't sure if I should post this publicly. I don't want to seem like I'm angry or trying to make anyone look bad. But this affects me personally, so I decided to post it.

I have been very open in the past about the bad decisions I have made in life and the issues I have been dealing with (drug addiction, violence, wife leaving me).

The first church I went to was my local SSPX church. The priest tried to be helpful, but had almost no time for me. Ultimately, he ended up telling me that if I was having trouble getting my life on track, I needed to find a secular therapist or psychiatrist. His exact words were "I deal with the supernatural world. You need someone to help you deal with the natural world."

This made no sense to me because I don't believe in secular psychology. I believe the natural and the supernatural are intertwined. In fact, the whole reason I got into religion was to try and get my life on track.

Then, the exact same day when the priest said this to me, I was introduced by a respectable forum member to a very good priest who said he would help deliver me from evil spirits/influences. This priest dedicated lots of time to me for free, and I am very grateful for this. I am also very grateful to the forum member who introduced me to him.

I would often get discouraged, and this priest would continually reassure me that God was not giving up on me and that he would not give up on me either. I do not really have anyone in my life IRL who is capable of giving me good spiritual direction (my family are all secular atheists), so I grew to trust this priest as a spiritual director.

Then, all of a sudden, he told me he had been hit with some kind of false accusation (he said it wasn't sex-abuse related but would not be more specific) and that he would not be able to speak to me for at least a few weeks, but possibly forever, depending on what his bishop decides. (By the way, that is not why I started this thread about false accusations. That was totally a coincidence).

I realize I am not entitled to anyone's time. I don't mean to come off as if I believe people owe me anything. But at the same time, I had grown to see this priest as a representative of God in my life. And now, all of a sudden, he hits me with "Sorry. I can't help you anymore. Not my fault. Good luck finding another priest."

My first instinct was to be angry at this priest. But I realize it truly is not his fault. He took a vow to obey his superiors, and it is not his fault that he has been falsely accused.

My second instinct was to conclude that God Himself had abandoned me. But this obviously cannot be true.

So I must conclude that the modern Catholic Church is the problem. It is the structure of the modern Catholic Church which caused this sexual abuse problem, which is now becoming a false accusation problem. And people like me are left without any spiritual direction. Political concerns are prioritized over the souls of those in need.

And just to be clear, I am keenly aware of the fact that no one owes me a damn thing here. Everything any priest (or Christian in general) has done for me was done out of their love for Christ and the goodness of their heart. I am not entitled to any of this. Christians (on this forum and elsewhere) have sacrificed their own precious time in order to help me (who they've never met) get closer to God. I have not experienced that with anyone other than Christians.

I am just very disillusioned with the Church at this point. It is too modern and too concerned with politics. Maybe I will visit an Orthodox church next Sunday.

I am still dealing with trying to reconcile with my wife. She has shown signs of still caring about me and not wanting a divorce, but things are moving very slowly (if at all) and I worry if I'm fooling myself to think I will ever see her again (given how long it's been). I have also had several slip-ups where I have backtracked into old bad behavior (such as drugs). And I just don't know where to turn for spiritual direction anymore.

Once again, I do not want to come off as complaining or angry or entitled. People on this forum have in the past given me very good spiritual advice when they didn't have to do anything for me, and I will always be grateful for that. I am just trying to figure out what to do next. I was very close to just quitting church and instead looking for secular solutions (medication, possibly divorce, etc.), but I realize that is not the answer. Just because the Church is f**ked up doesn't mean God isn't real.

P.S. I want to reiterate once again that I am angry/disillusioned with the modern Church in general, not with this specific priest, nor with the forum member who introduced me to him.

You know who you are, and I will always be grateful for you introducing me to him, as well as taking time out of your life to help me understand and grow in the Faith.
 
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Rob Banks

Pelican
Rob, about a month ago we exchanged a few PMs.
Please give my advice a shot.
As I said, I may do just that next Sunday.

Any recommendations as to which Orthodox group would be best? Keep in mind that I am in America and I don't speak Russian or Greek or anything, so if I go to a church with strong ethnic/language ties, I probably won't feel very welcome there.

Feel free to respond publicly or via PM.

Thanks for the response.
 

Aurini

Ostrich
I feel you, Rob. I have no particularly wise words for you. Just - soldier on. Accept this as another cross to bear. Stick with the Catholic Church. You chose it for a reason, don't switch horses in the middle of the race. It feels like a spirit of babble has descended upon us. Cling to that inner truth that you know to be true.
 
My wife and I have struggled to feel at home in modern churches and tried a slew of them over the decades. We like our church now, probably the most out of any we've ever gone to, but it still leaves us wanting a great deal. I've come to accept this as a problem which is widespread in the United States. We even joke about trying Amish since they seem to be the only ones resisting.

However, have you considered God wants you to develop more personal strength in your faith for some reason?

It's not unlike how everyone seems to wish for better friends, ones who understand you better or who you can count on and trust more, not realizing you can be this friend to someone.

I wanted a strong mentor for awhile after my own died, only to find I had become the mentor to others. Not saying you should become a priest necessarily.

I'd recommend trying many more churches to find a better home but to also work on developing more personal trust in your own spiritual abilities.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Then, all of a sudden, he told me he had been hit with some kind of false accusation (he said it wasn't sex-abuse related but would not be more specific) and that he would not be able to speak to me for at least a few weeks, but possibly forever, depending on what his bishop decides. (By the way, that is not why I started this thread about false accusations. That was totally a coincidence).

I realize I am not entitled to anyone's time. I don't mean to come off as if I believe people owe me anything. But at the same time, I had grown to see this priest as a representative of God in my life. And now, all of a sudden, he hits me with "Sorry. I can't help you anymore. Not my fault. Good luck finding another priest."

My first instinct was to be angry at this priest. But I realize it truly is not his fault. He took a vow to obey his superiors, and it is not his fault that he has been falsely accused.

My second instinct was to conclude that God Himself had abandoned me. But this obviously cannot be true.

So I must conclude that the modern Catholic Church is the problem. It is the structure of the modern Catholic Church which caused this sexual abuse problem, which is now becoming a false accusation problem. And people like me are left without any spiritual direction. Political concerns are prioritized over the souls of those in need.

OK. Calm down. Be still and know I am God.

"My first instinct... my second instinct... so I must conclude..."


No. St Thomas Aquinas teaches all information is received in the mode of the receiver, and it colours our interpretations of events. So, if you're feeling abandoned, you will instantly interpret all information in that mode.

This is what I wrote to you privately that you haven't responded to in your need to react emotionally to events, in a public, attention-seeking way.

"What you can do is accept he's gone for a little while, and patiently offer up your sense of abandonment to God for the conversion of sinners, rather than making a big deal out of the situation. This is what I'm doing."

If you're taken in what I said first, you wouldn't have reacted in the mode of abandonment, meaning, your first reaction will be to abandon the Church. This is the reaction of a child trying to manipulate his parents, sulking in his playpen. "You don't love me, so I won't love you back."

Once again, your emotions are being used by the Demonic to mess with you. This is how they manipulate you. This is how they're manipulating everyone who can't humble themselves to wear a simple mask.

So you have to learn to stay calm. We are often asked by God to bear the crosses of Divine Providence without complaint. This act of mortifying our emotions trains us to act from the urgings of the Spiritual (Intellectual) Soul, not the Animal (Emotional) Soul. The Devil can't manipulate the former, only make us choose by Free Will by manipulating our emotions. This is why I've stressed to people to comply with the mask thing: it's a providential chance to mortify one's pride.

God knows what he is doing. So, when something you love is taken from you, it is always for your own good. God is testing how you respond to hardship, and you have to have faith that either, a) suffering accepted with gratitude will eventually return what was taken from you, or b) God has something better in mind for you. Either way, say thank you, and accept the cross that you have been given.

Now, I've expected this. This Priest works on the fringes, with very, very emotionally damaged people. I share this trait with him - I've always worked with the fringes. The particular abusive field he works in means these people tend towards Legalism - something you've evidenced in the past - which means, they're hugely-attached to their own legalistic interpretation of events, and, whilst outwardly placid at times, they're highly-prone to outbursts of Irascibility when challenged on their emotionally-based spiritual beliefs.

I'm sure everyone here remembers my occasional violent, irascible outbursts. But perhaps people didn't notice how these have greatly-died off in frequency.

An irascible emotional response - exactly what you're doing now - is the danger of the therapy. You've chosen to turn your irascible anger to the construct of the church. There is no doubt in my mind that his accuser has done the same thing, but is turning their anger back at the Priest himself. I went through this at times - there were times I despised him for, basically, not letting me bull**** myself or him any longer. What got me through was, as dictated by the Church, Humility and Obedience, and I'd always come to the moment where I'd realise that he was right, and peace and spiritual growth would result.

What happens from here? I had a sudden push to drive out of town on Saturday night, despite feeling very sick, to a Vigil Mass in a remote church. It turned out our new Bishop was there, whom I haven't spoken to before, though we'd recognise each other from sight due to Adoration at the Cathedral, and he made the announcement after Mass. Then I understood what I had to do.

I had my Mary Magdalene / St Therese of Lisieux moment as we filed out of church, and, propriety be damned, I took the Bishop to one side and made a strong defense of the Priest, explaining the irascibility in the therapy. He thanked me. Another Priest from our Priest's parish was there, and overheard, and thanked me this morning.

That's all I was urged to do by God - big things grow from small acts - and so I trust that whatever happens going forward is going to play out for the greater good, even if it appears negative to worldly eyes. Perhaps I made no difference. Thy will be done. I'll stand at the foot of his cross as he's crucified like Our Lady. I've already offered to house him, and if he's railroaded by the Secular Government who now has power over the Church, he won't be the first friend I have in jail.

And I also saw this coming: I'll copy and paste from a Catholic Chat I was in last night...

I've been working with [the priest] for over a year now. I proofread his doctorate and whipped it into publishable order. I did all of the reading, I crossed checked every theological reference to make sure they were valid. I couldn't fault the logic. I understand what he's teaching, because I've lived it. He's spent decades putting this work together, and it could revolutionize treatment of the sexually abused in the church, and stop future abuse by priests. It's an Infused work [meaning a case of Sequential Locution].

And this is why the only way it can precede is for him to lose absolutely everything. I realised this... when was the Plenary Council meetings... February? That he would be destroyed.


The forum member answered how much he loved the Priest, and I replied:

No, don't think I don't love him either, but... this is how God works. This will sanctify the man into sainthood. And, one day, probably long after his death, his work will be discovered, but I understand he won't be recognised in his lifetime. It sounds brutal and cruel, but it's God showing just how deeply he loves [The Priest].

I understood this [meaning I received Infused Knowledge] on a very deep level back in February, which is why I was pushing hard for my sister to finish the therapy [with him]. I even used the phrase "... whilst we have him." Which also means that I'm in the position where I know what happened to her [mistaking the mild sexual interference she remembers for the severe sexual abuse she's entirely-repressed from conscious thought], and can't tell her [at risk of psychological damage], and she can't complete the therapy for Jesus to show her what happened to her... So... I'm accepting a very brutal truth of Catholicism, and thanking God for the challenge. This is the [Carmelite] Monastery being shut down all over again, and by thanking Him rather than attacking Him, I will be sanctified further...

...Yes, you're seeing the deeper truth. [To be truly-purified by God for Spiritual Union], everything you hold dear is lost and taken from you. You never get to be comfortable. And you keep walking in faith, the darker and darker things get. And this is what sanctifies you, [and eventually means Christ gives you his Heart].


Rob: what you have to learn to do is accept difficulty, accept hardship, accept being uncomfortable. You're in a spiritual war, and what will make you heroic is your ability to not buckle under the crosses life throws your way. In the matter of the last few days, I've very nearly lost my Father to an infection around the heart; am struggling mightily with new medication that is - to be blunt - messing me up; took on the Generational Demons my Father carried, which meant three days of prayer and almost being crushed by their sorrow before the tabernacle as Jesus condemned them (Dad was released from hospital a few hours after that - no-one thought to tell me until the next night); lost my Spiritual Director and Friend to a false accusation; realised my Sister was now trapped in spiritual limbo and could be sick with the physical effects of repression the rest of her life; and my friend Bill is going into surgery tomorrow, because the Freemasonic Curse he's under is evidencing (his bowel has burst through his stomach wall).

How have I responded? I've thanked God for each and every challenge, and clung closer to him so as to do his will in each situation. And what I'm realising has happened is exactly what the Illuminative Way promises happens - the infused virtues are strengthening. Somewhere in all the times I'm sitting in front of the Eucharist, trying to unwill conscious thought, as Contemplatives are instructed to do, God has been quietly working in there, and, somehow, unbelievably, I have the Virtue of Fortitude coming out my ears. And with that, whatever is happening in society no longer matters to me, because if God is with you, who can stand against you.

St Therese of Lisieux is considering a 'sugary' Saint with a 'perfect' storybook life by most. No, she suffered, brutally, but you'd never know it by the way she received the events that happened to her, because every hardship was accepted with love as being from God's providence. There's a book called "The Passion of St Therese" that describes the physical effects of her long death from Tuberculosis - she wasn't allowed any Morphine. Meaning, slowly, one lung was consumed from the bottom up, then the next, and the book describes, from a medical perspective, everything that happened to her body during this process.

She didn't complain once. She only asked to suffer more for God.

Your problem is an aversion to suffering. Don't let a 24 year old girl outdo you in heroism. You don't possess Fortitude yet, because that comes after the stage you're currently in, known as the Purgative Way. Here, you're doing what you can to 'prove' yourself to God, after which, He'll step in and do it for you. No, I'm not using metaphors. I mean, He will start a supernatural process of purifying your soul by first removing your ability to imagine anything, and to pray using images and words. Then, you will learn a new way to pray, and he will start infusing himself directly into your soul, and God will cease to be an abstract construct to you, even as he, oddly, grows more obscure and seemingly-distant.

You can get there too, but you have to focus on where you are, now, which means, not throwing in the towel the moment things don't go your way or appear difficult.

Work on humility, obedience to religious superiors, and mortifying your passions. Drop all concern of if the catholic church is 'holy' or not and just focus on those three facts, because the state of the Church has no bearing on the grunt work that happens down in the trenches. Meaning: whenever you're prone to high emotional responses, mentally step back and calm down. Take some quiet time in prayer. Use the Divine Mercy prayer: "Jesus, I trust in you."

So, whenever you feel like it's time to give up, man up. If you want to believe in the illusion that life should be easy and perfect and free of all suffering, you'll be lead astray by the demonic. This is the problem with the Leftists: they're so unwilling to bear any tiny suffering they're willing to murder people and destroy society to create a perfect, pain-free utopia. The reality is life is always going to be suffering, so you better learn to toughen up and bear it.

I'm still around privately for anything that needs to be discussed, but you have to focus on those bolded parts in the paragraph above. I can't do it for you, as you possess Free Will, and I will respect that. If you're ready to change churches, that is your right, and I will respect that, but I also won't offer you advice going forward, as I already have a backlog of people I'm struggling to get through.

Here's a great little book written by a Carmelite ex-Psychologist on how St Therese's Little Way combats mental illness. It's cheap and a quick, easy, read.

https://www.amazon.com/Love-That-Keeps-Sane-Illuminationbooks/dp/0809140020
 
Thanks for the response.

Did you refer to me as “kid”? I wish. I’m almost 30. I would have been far better off having these conversations when I was still young enough to be called “kid.”

I have been talking to a priest who specialized in delivering people from demons. I will ask and obey his advice in terms of whether or not I should be posting on the forum.

Tell us about your progress. I hope you will do well soon.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
I wasn't sure if I should post this publicly. I don't want to seem like I'm angry or trying to make anyone look bad. But this affects me personally, so I decided to post it.

I have been very open in the past about the bad decisions I have made in life and the issues I have been dealing with (drug addiction, violence, wife leaving me).

The first church I went to was my local SSPX church. The priest tried to be helpful, but had almost no time for me. Ultimately, he ended up telling me that if I was having trouble getting my life on track, I needed to find a secular therapist or psychiatrist. His exact words were "I deal with the supernatural world. You need someone to help you deal with the natural world."

This made no sense to me because I don't believe in secular psychology. I believe the natural and the supernatural are intertwined. In fact, the whole reason I got into religion was to try and get my life on track.

Then, the exact same day when the priest said this to me, I was introduced by a respectable forum member to a very good priest who said he would help deliver me from evil spirits/influences. This priest dedicated lots of time to me for free, and I am very grateful for this. I am also very grateful to the forum member who introduced me to him.

I would often get discouraged, and this priest would continually reassure me that God was not giving up on me and that he would not give up on me either. I do not really have anyone in my life IRL who is capable of giving me good spiritual direction (my family are all secular atheists), so I grew to trust this priest as a spiritual director.

Then, all of a sudden, he told me he had been hit with some kind of false accusation (he said it wasn't sex-abuse related but would not be more specific) and that he would not be able to speak to me for at least a few weeks, but possibly forever, depending on what his bishop decides. (By the way, that is not why I started this thread about false accusations. That was totally a coincidence).

I realize I am not entitled to anyone's time. I don't mean to come off as if I believe people owe me anything. But at the same time, I had grown to see this priest as a representative of God in my life. And now, all of a sudden, he hits me with "Sorry. I can't help you anymore. Not my fault. Good luck finding another priest."

My first instinct was to be angry at this priest. But I realize it truly is not his fault. He took a vow to obey his superiors, and it is not his fault that he has been falsely accused.

My second instinct was to conclude that God Himself had abandoned me. But this obviously cannot be true.

So I must conclude that the modern Catholic Church is the problem. It is the structure of the modern Catholic Church which caused this sexual abuse problem, which is now becoming a false accusation problem. And people like me are left without any spiritual direction. Political concerns are prioritized over the souls of those in need.

And just to be clear, I am keenly aware of the fact that no one owes me a damn thing here. Everything any priest (or Christian in general) has done for me was done out of their love for Christ and the goodness of their heart. I am not entitled to any of this. Christians (on this forum and elsewhere) have sacrificed their own precious time in order to help me (who they've never met) get closer to God. I have not experienced that with anyone other than Christians.

I am just very disillusioned with the Church at this point. It is too modern and too concerned with politics. Maybe I will visit an Orthodox church next Sunday.

I am still dealing with trying to reconcile with my wife. She has shown signs of still caring about me and not wanting a divorce, but things are moving very slowly (if at all) and I worry if I'm fooling myself to think I will ever see her again (given how long it's been). I have also had several slip-ups where I have backtracked into old bad behavior (such as drugs). And I just don't know where to turn for spiritual direction anymore.

Once again, I do not want to come off as complaining or angry or entitled. People on this forum have in the past given me very good spiritual advice when they didn't have to do anything for me, and I will always be grateful for that. I am just trying to figure out what to do next. I was very close to just quitting church and instead looking for secular solutions (medication, possibly divorce, etc.), but I realize that is not the answer. Just because the Church is f**ked up doesn't mean God isn't real.

P.S. I want to reiterate once again that I am angry/disillusioned with the modern Church in general, not with this specific priest, nor with the forum member who introduced me to him.

You know who you are, and I will always be grateful for you introducing me to him, as well as taking time out of your life to help me understand and grow in the Faith.

She wasn't ever yours. It was just your turn, so stop trying to kick a dead horse by trying to keep in touch with the ex.

The gagging/vomiting may be due to obesity. You should have an ENT doctor check you out, might be something simple.

Having a job is a cog in your self esteem, so find a job, and, by golly, give it your best.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
OK. Calm down. Be still and know I am God.

"My first instinct... my second instinct... so I must conclude..."


No. St Thomas Aquinas teaches all information is received in the mode of the receiver, and it colours our interpretations of events. So, if you're feeling abandoned, you will instantly interpret all information in that mode.

This is what I wrote to you privately that you haven't responded to in your need to react emotionally to events, in a public, attention-seeking way.

"What you can do is accept he's gone for a little while, and patiently offer up your sense of abandonment to God for the conversion of sinners, rather than making a big deal out of the situation. This is what I'm doing."

If you're taken in what I said first, you wouldn't have reacted in the mode of abandonment, meaning, your first reaction will be to abandon the Church. This is the reaction of a child trying to manipulate his parents, sulking in his playpen. "You don't love me, so I won't love you back."

Once again, your emotions are being used by the Demonic to mess with you. This is how they manipulate you. This is how they're manipulating everyone who can't humble themselves to wear a simple mask.

So you have to learn to stay calm. We are often asked by God to bear the crosses of Divine Providence without complaint. This act of mortifying our emotions trains us to act from the urgings of the Spiritual (Intellectual) Soul, not the Animal (Emotional) Soul. The Devil can't manipulate the former, only make us choose by Free Will by manipulating our emotions. This is why I've stressed to people to comply with the mask thing: it's a providential chance to mortify one's pride.

God knows what he is doing. So, when something you love is taken from you, it is always for your own good. God is testing how you respond to hardship, and you have to have faith that either, a) suffering accepted with gratitude will eventually return what was taken from you, or b) God has something better in mind for you. Either way, say thank you, and accept the cross that you have been given.

Now, I've expected this. This Priest works on the fringes, with very, very emotionally damaged people. I share this trait with him - I've always worked with the fringes. The particular abusive field he works in means these people tend towards Legalism - something you've evidenced in the past - which means, they're hugely-attached to their own legalistic interpretation of events, and, whilst outwardly placid at times, they're highly-prone to outbursts of Irascibility when challenged on their emotionally-based spiritual beliefs.

I'm sure everyone here remembers my occasional violent, irascible outbursts. But perhaps people didn't notice how these have greatly-died off in frequency.

An irascible emotional response - exactly what you're doing now - is the danger of the therapy. You've chosen to turn your irascible anger to the construct of the church. There is no doubt in my mind that his accuser has done the same thing, but is turning their anger back at the Priest himself. I went through this at times - there were times I despised him for, basically, not letting me bull**** myself or him any longer. What got me through was, as dictated by the Church, Humility and Obedience, and I'd always come to the moment where I'd realise that he was right, and peace and spiritual growth would result.

What happens from here? I had a sudden push to drive out of town on Saturday night, despite feeling very sick, to a Vigil Mass in a remote church. It turned out our new Bishop was there, whom I haven't spoken to before, though we'd recognise each other from sight due to Adoration at the Cathedral, and he made the announcement after Mass. Then I understood what I had to do.

I had my Mary Magdalene / St Therese of Lisieux moment as we filed out of church, and, propriety be damned, I took the Bishop to one side and made a strong defense of the Priest, explaining the irascibility in the therapy. He thanked me. Another Priest from our Priest's parish was there, and overheard, and thanked me this morning.

That's all I was urged to do by God - big things grow from small acts - and so I trust that whatever happens going forward is going to play out for the greater good, even if it appears negative to worldly eyes. Perhaps I made no difference. Thy will be done. I'll stand at the foot of his cross as he's crucified like Our Lady. I've already offered to house him, and if he's railroaded by the Secular Government who now has power over the Church, he won't be the first friend I have in jail.

And I also saw this coming: I'll copy and paste from a Catholic Chat I was in last night...

I've been working with [the priest] for over a year now. I proofread his doctorate and whipped it into publishable order. I did all of the reading, I crossed checked every theological reference to make sure they were valid. I couldn't fault the logic. I understand what he's teaching, because I've lived it. He's spent decades putting this work together, and it could revolutionize treatment of the sexually abused in the church, and stop future abuse by priests. It's an Infused work [meaning a case of Sequential Locution].

And this is why the only way it can precede is for him to lose absolutely everything. I realised this... when was the Plenary Council meetings... February? That he would be destroyed.


The forum member answered how much he loved the Priest, and I replied:

No, don't think I don't love him either, but... this is how God works. This will sanctify the man into sainthood. And, one day, probably long after his death, his work will be discovered, but I understand he won't be recognised in his lifetime. It sounds brutal and cruel, but it's God showing just how deeply he loves [The Priest].

I understood this [meaning I received Infused Knowledge] on a very deep level back in February, which is why I was pushing hard for my sister to finish the therapy [with him]. I even used the phrase "... whilst we have him." Which also means that I'm in the position where I know what happened to her [mistaking the mild sexual interference she remembers for the severe sexual abuse she's entirely-repressed from conscious thought], and can't tell her [at risk of psychological damage], and she can't complete the therapy for Jesus to show her what happened to her... So... I'm accepting a very brutal truth of Catholicism, and thanking God for the challenge. This is the [Carmelite] Monastery being shut down all over again, and by thanking Him rather than attacking Him, I will be sanctified further...

...Yes, you're seeing the deeper truth. [To be truly-purified by God for Spiritual Union], everything you hold dear is lost and taken from you. You never get to be comfortable. And you keep walking in faith, the darker and darker things get. And this is what sanctifies you, [and eventually means Christ gives you his Heart].


Rob: what you have to learn to do is accept difficulty, accept hardship, accept being uncomfortable. You're in a spiritual war, and what will make you heroic is your ability to not buckle under the crosses life throws your way. In the matter of the last few days, I've very nearly lost my Father to an infection around the heart; am struggling mightily with new medication that is - to be blunt - messing me up; took on the Generational Demons my Father carried, which meant three days of prayer and almost being crushed by their sorrow before the tabernacle as Jesus condemned them (Dad was released from hospital a few hours after that - no-one thought to tell me until the next night); lost my Spiritual Director and Friend to a false accusation; realised my Sister was now trapped in spiritual limbo and could be sick with the physical effects of repression the rest of her life; and my friend Bill is going into surgery tomorrow, because the Freemasonic Curse he's under is evidencing (his bowel has burst through his stomach wall).

How have I responded? I've thanked God for each and every challenge, and clung closer to him so as to do his will in each situation. And what I'm realising has happened is exactly what the Illuminative Way promises happens - the infused virtues are strengthening. Somewhere in all the times I'm sitting in front of the Eucharist, trying to unwill conscious thought, as Contemplatives are instructed to do, God has been quietly working in there, and, somehow, unbelievably, I have the Virtue of Fortitude coming out my ears. And with that, whatever is happening in society no longer matters to me, because if God is with you, who can stand against you.

St Therese of Lisieux is considering a 'sugary' Saint with a 'perfect' storybook life by most. No, she suffered, brutally, but you'd never know it by the way she received the events that happened to her, because every hardship was accepted with love as being from God's providence. There's a book called "The Passion of St Therese" that describes the physical effects of her long death from Tuberculosis - she wasn't allowed any Morphine. Meaning, slowly, one lung was consumed from the bottom up, then the next, and the book describes, from a medical perspective, everything that happened to her body during this process.

She didn't complain once. She only asked to suffer more for God.

Your problem is an aversion to suffering. Don't let a 24 year old girl outdo you in heroism. You don't possess Fortitude yet, because that comes after the stage you're currently in, known as the Purgative Way. Here, you're doing what you can to 'prove' yourself to God, after which, He'll step in and do it for you. No, I'm not using metaphors. I mean, He will start a supernatural process of purifying your soul by first removing your ability to imagine anything, and to pray using images and words. Then, you will learn a new way to pray, and he will start infusing himself directly into your soul, and God will cease to be an abstract construct to you, even as he, oddly, grows more obscure and seemingly-distant.

You can get there too, but you have to focus on where you are, now, which means, not throwing in the towel the moment things don't go your way or appear difficult.

Work on humility, obedience to religious superiors, and mortifying your passions. Drop all concern of if the catholic church is 'holy' or not and just focus on those three facts, because the state of the Church has no bearing on the grunt work that happens down in the trenches. Meaning: whenever you're prone to high emotional responses, mentally step back and calm down. Take some quiet time in prayer. Use the Divine Mercy prayer: "Jesus, I trust in you."

So, whenever you feel like it's time to give up, man up. If you want to believe in the illusion that life should be easy and perfect and free of all suffering, you'll be lead astray by the demonic. This is the problem with the Leftists: they're so unwilling to bear any tiny suffering they're willing to murder people and destroy society to create a perfect, pain-free utopia. The reality is life is always going to be suffering, so you better learn to toughen up and bear it.

I'm still around privately for anything that needs to be discussed, but you have to focus on those bolded parts in the paragraph above. I can't do it for you, as you possess Free Will, and I will respect that. If you're ready to change churches, that is your right, and I will respect that, but I also won't offer you advice going forward, as I already have a backlog of people I'm struggling to get through.

Here's a great little book written by a Carmelite ex-Psychologist on how St Therese's Little Way combats mental illness. It's cheap and a quick, easy, read.

https://www.amazon.com/Love-That-Keeps-Sane-Illuminationbooks/dp/0809140020
I appreciate the response. And no, I'm not going to just change churches. It would be stupid to make a rash decision like that when at the moment I'm being influenced by the Devil.

Regarding the first bolded point, I actually posted this thread about 2 hours before I received your PM.

And I think I'm making a big deal about the priest because it's just one of many things that have gone very wrong lately, as I mentioned to you privately.

In general, though, I guess I am prone to emotional immature reactions, which is why my life became a mess in the first place.

I posted this publicly because I wasn't sure if you'd taken another break from the forum as you have in the past, and I don't have too many people IRL who I can consult or speak with regarding this type of thing. I don't believe I was "attention seeking." I get nothing out of having people people pay attention to my negative traits and failures, despite how it might have came off. I guess maybe the public forum is not the best place to talk about things like this, so that is my mistake.

Thank you and take care.
 
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Rob Banks

Pelican
She wasn't ever yours. It was just your turn, so stop trying to kick a dead horse by trying to keep in touch with the ex.
...
OK, and should I go out and learn "game" as well?

All you married guys on the forum, did you hear that? @bmw633 says your wives are not yours and it's just your turn.

You're about a year and a half late with that line of thinking. I believe it was May or June of last year when Roosh became a Christian and the forum took its new direction.
...
Having a job is a cog in your self esteem, so find a job, and, by golly, give it your best.
When did I say I'm not trying to do anything productive (i.e. work or study)? I don't believe I discussed that at all in my OP.
 
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