Becoming disillusioned with the Church. I want to avoid losing my faith.
- Thread starter Rob Banks
- Start date
FactusIRX
Kingfisher
Rob, sorry to hear you're going through a tough time. Don't feel bad with sharing this online. Most guys don't have any outlet for their problems, and God knows, modern society doesn't care about men. I have posted in anonymous forums like these basically all of my adult life. It's comforting to talk with other men without worrying about your reputation.
NoFunInAus
Kingfisher
Where's your father Rob?
Rob Banks
Pelican
I am sorry to hear about your divorce.
I am 100% sincere when I say this. Divorce is tragic and it is an evil upon society. I am a child victim of divorce (my parents were divorced), and now Satan is threatening to make me an adult victim/perpetrator of divorce as well. Few things make me sadder or angrier than divorce.
I hope your wife did not prevent you from being involved with your kids. That would be doubly tragic.
That being said, you should not making blanket anti-marriage statements publicly (e.g. "She's not yours, it's just your turn."). There are men who come here seeking genuine advice, and they may take your statements seriously.
I appreciate the response. And no, I'm not going to just change churches. It would be stupid to make a rash decision like that when at the moment I'm being influenced by the Devil.
Yes, Remember the Ignatian Rules of Discernment. Make no changes when you're in Desolation. Keep going to mass, confessing and receiving the Eucharist. Work on Humility, Obedience and Detachment from creatures.
Regarding the first bolded point, I actually posted this thread about 2 hours before I received your PM.
My apologies. I guess the time of posting displayed in forum posts versus those in private messages are inaccurate.
And I think I'm making a big deal about the priest because it's just one of many things that have gone very wrong lately, as I mentioned to you privately.
You don't know if things are irretrievably-wrong yet. You're jumping to an immediate emotional conclusion that hasn't played out yet. As a Priest said to me once, "I've had many problems in my life. Most of them never happened."
I spoke to another Priest not long ago, who said, truly serious accusations always involve the Priest being removed by the Presbytery, which hasn't happened. He's optimistic. Our Priest was being honest when he said he didn't know what was going to happen.
Don't think he's uncaring. I know the huge number of needy people he deals with each day, often interrupting matters when they're in a state of High Emotional Hysteria. He's bound by obedience with the Decision of his Superiors. This is a sign of a Holy Priest. Some Saints were given messages directly by Jesus which their superiors told them to ignore. Jesus appeared to them later and praised them for their obedience, because he said obedience will always keep them safe from the Devil.
Understand, his public reputation has taken a serious hit, and it's happening at a time when the media and governmental authorities are looking for anyone to make an example out of, so, being blunt, try putting yourself in his shoes, instead of thinking how you're the one being hard done by here.
I've invited him for dinner tomorrow night. Worst case happens, he won't be the first friend of mine in jail. But it might also be resolved in a few weeks, and things can continue on where you left off. But, if one door closes, another opens.
Traditionally, a session of spiritual direction was supposed to hold a penitent for a month.
Jesus, I trust in you.
Yes, Remember the Ignatian Rules of Discernment. Make no changes when you're in Desolation. Keep going to mass, confessing and receiving the Eucharist. Work on Humility, Obedience and Detachment from creatures.
Regarding the first bolded point, I actually posted this thread about 2 hours before I received your PM.
My apologies. I guess the time of posting displayed in forum posts versus those in private messages are inaccurate.
And I think I'm making a big deal about the priest because it's just one of many things that have gone very wrong lately, as I mentioned to you privately.
You don't know if things are irretrievably-wrong yet. You're jumping to an immediate emotional conclusion that hasn't played out yet. As a Priest said to me once, "I've had many problems in my life. Most of them never happened."
I spoke to another Priest not long ago, who said, truly serious accusations always involve the Priest being removed by the Presbytery, which hasn't happened. He's optimistic. Our Priest was being honest when he said he didn't know what was going to happen.
Don't think he's uncaring. I know the huge number of needy people he deals with each day, often interrupting matters when they're in a state of High Emotional Hysteria. He's bound by obedience with the Decision of his Superiors. This is a sign of a Holy Priest. Some Saints were given messages directly by Jesus which their superiors told them to ignore. Jesus appeared to them later and praised them for their obedience, because he said obedience will always keep them safe from the Devil.
Understand, his public reputation has taken a serious hit, and it's happening at a time when the media and governmental authorities are looking for anyone to make an example out of, so, being blunt, try putting yourself in his shoes, instead of thinking how you're the one being hard done by here.
I've invited him for dinner tomorrow night. Worst case happens, he won't be the first friend of mine in jail. But it might also be resolved in a few weeks, and things can continue on where you left off. But, if one door closes, another opens.
Traditionally, a session of spiritual direction was supposed to hold a penitent for a month.
Jesus, I trust in you.
Rob Banks
Pelican
Assuming this is a serious question, he is alive and well, but unfortunately, he has his own severe personality issues, which contributed greatly to many bad things in my life.
I won't say anything else bad about him, though, as my priest has told me many times that I need to forgive him.
Additionally, he (my father) does have some good qualities. He truly does care about me.
NoFunInAus
Kingfisher
Why wouldn't it be a serious question? I don't remember conversing with you before.
Once I forgave my parents for the sins they had put upon me my life has taken another route.
I also realised we all make mistakes and I'm not a perfect parent myself.
The paternal bond is extremely strong and sometimes needs forgiving to move on.
Once I forgave my parents for the sins they had put upon me my life has taken another route.
I also realised we all make mistakes and I'm not a perfect parent myself.
The paternal bond is extremely strong and sometimes needs forgiving to move on.
NoMoreTO
Ostrich
I'll take a more practical angle on this, as AB has provided you with so much in terms of the spiritual path.
You're going through a seperation with your wife. When I look at my own life and trying to manage through heartbreak, there was alot of anger everywhere. Often towards people and things that when the smoke clears you realize you were off base. Patience is a virtue.
Pray for the Priest who helped you, he is obviously going through something extremely difficult.
You're going through a seperation with your wife. When I look at my own life and trying to manage through heartbreak, there was alot of anger everywhere. Often towards people and things that when the smoke clears you realize you were off base. Patience is a virtue.
Pray for the Priest who helped you, he is obviously going through something extremely difficult.
Rob Banks
Pelican
Thanks for the reply.
However, "going through a separation" and "heartbreak" makes it seem like it is something normal, with the goal being to get over it.
What I am dealing with is not a "separation" and "heartbreak" but rather a struggle to preserve/save the precious half of myself that I lost (temporarily, God willing) due to grave error and sin, with the consequences being dire and lifelong (both for me and my wife) should we fail to forgive each other and reconcile.
When I say "half of myself," I am being dead serious. [T]hey shall be two in one flesh. (Genesis 2:24). What God joins together is not meant to be pulled apart. If it happens, it is the Devil's doing.
My wife means everything to me.
Where I am going wrong is that I am using (grave) sin and vice to cope with the current separation, which means I am almost certainly displeasing God.
P.S. I needed to clear that up, but I will ask that people refrain from responding to this post because there is already an entire thread of mine (now closed) dedicated to this topic.
bmw633
Woodpecker
The problem with divorce, it is WORSE than the death of a spouse, because it is a choice. But, people treat the bereaved of a death graciously; a divorce, like it was your fault, if you are a man. When my wife left, some folks in my church wouldn't even look me in the eye, as if they thought I had done something to cause it.
I have known some people who remarried their ex-spouses, but it was maybe 1 percent or less of divorced couples. You will not be able to grow holding on to a fantasy of getting back together. Acceptance of your situation and asking God for strength to move forward in becoming the person He wants you to be should be your goal.
Rob Banks
Pelican
I am not divorced. I am married.
I would appreciate if people would pray that the grave evil of divorce does not come upon me for a second time (the first time being my parents' divorce).
When a couple does get divorced, they are at fault. Both of them. Maybe one is more at fault than the other, but ask yourself, do you not share any of the blame for your divorce? Be honest with yourself.
I'm sure there are cases where the husband does everything right and the wife just leaves because she is selfish/misguided/demonically influenced. These cases are the exception to the rule. Divorce is a grave sin that a married couple commits (i.e. they are both responsible).
You're right. Divorce is, in fact, worse than the death of a spouse. Divorce is not only a choice, but a mortally sinful choice.
I am confused.
You seem to be claiming you did not want a divorce and your wife just left (i.e. the divorce was hard on you; you did not want to get divorced), but then you encourage people like me to accept divorce.
You have first-hand knowledge about the evils of divorce. I don't know why you would go around encouraging men like me to accept it and even embrace it.
This makes no sense to me.
God does not want me to divorce, for the reasons I outlined in an earlier post. Also, I don't see why my goal would be to move on without my wife.
Maybe I'm just different from most guys. It just doesn't make any sense to me to do anything other than fight for her. I am utterly repulsed by the thought of attempting to care for and love a different woman, and she feels the same way regarding men (which is why she does not date other men despite the long separation).
The guys on here who have spoken at length with me about this situation (AB and others) know exactly what I am saying and why it makes sense.
Again, as a man who knows first-hand the evils of divorce, I would refrain from casually encouraging other men to divorce, as it can lead men straight to hell.
It is not my intention to argue back and forth with you about this, but I have to contradict you as I don't appreciate divorce being encouraged and accepted. Other men reading your posts might get the wrong idea.
Last edited:
bmw633
Woodpecker
You cannot make people love you or stay with you. That is just reality.
Maybe you should learn the SERENITY PRAYER. It helped me during a tough time in my life.
I have NEVER advocated divorce, but sometimes, there is nothing you can do about it when the wife chooses to do so.
Rob Banks
Pelican
Absolutely. You are right.
I guess in my case it was never about a lack of love, but rather demonic oppression on my part that was causing me to mistreat her very badly. And now, fear and resentment are preventing her from returning.
Although I do believe that if a woman is able to stop loving you (as opposed to just separating out of anger/for her own safety and well-being), then she never truly loved you in the first place.
When a man and woman join together as God intended it, that bond is unbreakable. Separation (even permanent) is still possible given the right circumstances, but the bond remains and can be reunited if the circumstances allow for it (provided the Devil doesn't get in the way).
JohnKreese
Pelican
A major problem with the whole “trad” movement in recent years is the way that is has essentially been weaponized to “fight” modernism, secularism, etc. and, simply, to “own the Left!” As a cradle Catholic who strayed for quite some time, the people, websites, blogs, etc. pushing this type of agenda were very appealing to me. They seemed like RVF…but for religion/Catholicism! However, as time has gone by, I have come to realize the danger that this content possesses, particularly to those without at least a basic understanding of the Church and the Faith.
On a daily basis, one can read about the evils of the Church, about individual Church figures, parishes, etc. while also being reminded of how great and noble figures of the past were. While there is certainly merit to both of these areas (there are problems in modern-day Catholicism and there are numerous examples of traditional Catholic virtue in the past), there has become almost a cult-like Evangelization of irreligious people becoming interested in the faith who seem to think that nothing is right today and the past order must be restored for the Church to regain any legitimacy. Instead of reading the Catechism, learning the basic Order of the Mass, or even the words to the most fundamental prayers, hours are instead spent listening to podcast and reading poorly-written blog posts about the homosexual infiltration of the Church or some Catholic nonprofits donating to “migrant relief” efforts.
This seems to be where you’re at right now, Rob.
From what I’ve read (and I certainly haven’t read all of your postings), the fact that two (2) priests have been unable to provide you the non-spiritual relief that you are apparently seeking right now (which seems odd, considering that you mention that you are not interested in “natural” methods of addressing these issues) legitimizes these things you have been reading. That these two (2) men have “failed” you, the Church is obviously past the point of no return and the only course of action is to start exploring schismatic churches until a priest with appropriate power is able to wave his hand and spiritually cure your ailments.
Is this about right? I’m sure that there is a large degree of hyperbole here, but from what I am reading, this seems like a more blunt, less “I try so hard and people, the Church, etc. keep letting me down!” version of reality that you present.
At this point, I’m curious as to why you remain an active RVF member. If 10’s (100’s?) of men haven’t been able to help you to overcome your issues at this point, why would you continue to seek support here (if it only took two (2) priests to “fail” you before leaving Catholicism)? Is there some reason why an online message board with a host of members with goofy user handles deserves more loyalty (for lack of a better word) than the Church founded by Jesus Christ I.e. The One True Church?
NOTE: I don’t want you to quit the forum. I am simply pointing out the rather obvious contrast here.
I’m also curious as to why you can’t accept “natural” solutions to many of the problems that you continue to face. Sure, we should recognize all of the non-worldly elements present to us in our day-to-day living. However, to assume that any non-spiritual solution to a problem is simply unacceptable will be very difficult to live out. If I am hungry, a sandwich is a very reasonable, non-spiritual solution to this problem. A priest who recognizes that problems that are outside of his realm of knowledge or expertise to address would be doing you a disservice by attempting to “cure” them via methods that would be unlikely to adequately help you or that he may be unfamiliar with.
In regards to the priest who essentially (in your view) stated that he didn’t have the time to help you, it is important to remember that priests are busy people. Of course, he would like to do what he can to help all of his flock, but time must be allocated and allocated where due. I would question the degree to which your interactions with him might make him question your commitment to improving yourself and learning about the Church. I question these things, myself.
Many weeks back, I laid out a simple plan to get you started with the process of addressing BASIC lifestyle habits.
I haven’t received any update from you on how this has gone or rationale as to why it would not be possible to implement these practices (“John, drinking water every day is not possible for me. John, I can’t just NOT eat junk food”). Was the fact that all of these were “natural” methods make these suggestions inappropriate for application in your life? Did that first priest provide you with any suggestions that you simply couldn’t implement (and did you let him know that you wouldn’t be implementing them…around the same time that he mentioned that he is a bit busy)? I’m sorry to tell you that priests are human, as well. I don’t know a large number of Orthodox priests, but the ones I know generally seem to exhibit human-like characteristics and tendencies, as well.
This is all coming across as very heavy-handed and confrontational, I am sure. Many will disagree with the methods here, but it seems obvious to me that something isn’t really “clicking” with you (both in that these problems are persisting, but also that you seem unwilling to do anything to actually address these issues). However, as I stated in the previous thread, I and others continue to respond because we care about you and want to see you figure these things out (to be fair, this post is also directed to help others who may find themselves in the spiral of binging on “trad Cath” news as opposed to actually working on their own spiritual development).
In the meantime, I would suggest
Reviewing my basic lifestyle suggestions from last time
Picking up the Catechism and turning off Taylor Marshall and Michael Voris (at least until you have a better idea of what Catholicism “is”)
Keeping an open mind and being open to put into practice the advice and suggestions from very learned and experienced religious men (such as the priests you previously mentioned) as well as learned, patient, and welcoming lay men (such as AnonymousBosch) without discounting it or overtly questioning it due to some gnostic-like tendencies.
Get what you have to and log off from the forum for a week or two. Don’t continue to engage or to spend time developing excuses and rationale for your behavior to those of us replying to you. We’ll be here when you get back and will be ready to listen and to help.
On a daily basis, one can read about the evils of the Church, about individual Church figures, parishes, etc. while also being reminded of how great and noble figures of the past were. While there is certainly merit to both of these areas (there are problems in modern-day Catholicism and there are numerous examples of traditional Catholic virtue in the past), there has become almost a cult-like Evangelization of irreligious people becoming interested in the faith who seem to think that nothing is right today and the past order must be restored for the Church to regain any legitimacy. Instead of reading the Catechism, learning the basic Order of the Mass, or even the words to the most fundamental prayers, hours are instead spent listening to podcast and reading poorly-written blog posts about the homosexual infiltration of the Church or some Catholic nonprofits donating to “migrant relief” efforts.
This seems to be where you’re at right now, Rob.
From what I’ve read (and I certainly haven’t read all of your postings), the fact that two (2) priests have been unable to provide you the non-spiritual relief that you are apparently seeking right now (which seems odd, considering that you mention that you are not interested in “natural” methods of addressing these issues) legitimizes these things you have been reading. That these two (2) men have “failed” you, the Church is obviously past the point of no return and the only course of action is to start exploring schismatic churches until a priest with appropriate power is able to wave his hand and spiritually cure your ailments.
Is this about right? I’m sure that there is a large degree of hyperbole here, but from what I am reading, this seems like a more blunt, less “I try so hard and people, the Church, etc. keep letting me down!” version of reality that you present.
At this point, I’m curious as to why you remain an active RVF member. If 10’s (100’s?) of men haven’t been able to help you to overcome your issues at this point, why would you continue to seek support here (if it only took two (2) priests to “fail” you before leaving Catholicism)? Is there some reason why an online message board with a host of members with goofy user handles deserves more loyalty (for lack of a better word) than the Church founded by Jesus Christ I.e. The One True Church?
NOTE: I don’t want you to quit the forum. I am simply pointing out the rather obvious contrast here.
I’m also curious as to why you can’t accept “natural” solutions to many of the problems that you continue to face. Sure, we should recognize all of the non-worldly elements present to us in our day-to-day living. However, to assume that any non-spiritual solution to a problem is simply unacceptable will be very difficult to live out. If I am hungry, a sandwich is a very reasonable, non-spiritual solution to this problem. A priest who recognizes that problems that are outside of his realm of knowledge or expertise to address would be doing you a disservice by attempting to “cure” them via methods that would be unlikely to adequately help you or that he may be unfamiliar with.
In regards to the priest who essentially (in your view) stated that he didn’t have the time to help you, it is important to remember that priests are busy people. Of course, he would like to do what he can to help all of his flock, but time must be allocated and allocated where due. I would question the degree to which your interactions with him might make him question your commitment to improving yourself and learning about the Church. I question these things, myself.
Many weeks back, I laid out a simple plan to get you started with the process of addressing BASIC lifestyle habits.
Thinking of quitting
It’s been 6 months since I posted on the forum about some personal issues and it was recommended by some wise forum members that I go to church and get closer to God and Jesus. I have been going to church, praying, educating myself about theology, and talking to my priest often about my faith...
www.rooshvforum.com
I haven’t received any update from you on how this has gone or rationale as to why it would not be possible to implement these practices (“John, drinking water every day is not possible for me. John, I can’t just NOT eat junk food”). Was the fact that all of these were “natural” methods make these suggestions inappropriate for application in your life? Did that first priest provide you with any suggestions that you simply couldn’t implement (and did you let him know that you wouldn’t be implementing them…around the same time that he mentioned that he is a bit busy)? I’m sorry to tell you that priests are human, as well. I don’t know a large number of Orthodox priests, but the ones I know generally seem to exhibit human-like characteristics and tendencies, as well.
This is all coming across as very heavy-handed and confrontational, I am sure. Many will disagree with the methods here, but it seems obvious to me that something isn’t really “clicking” with you (both in that these problems are persisting, but also that you seem unwilling to do anything to actually address these issues). However, as I stated in the previous thread, I and others continue to respond because we care about you and want to see you figure these things out (to be fair, this post is also directed to help others who may find themselves in the spiral of binging on “trad Cath” news as opposed to actually working on their own spiritual development).
In the meantime, I would suggest
Reviewing my basic lifestyle suggestions from last time
Picking up the Catechism and turning off Taylor Marshall and Michael Voris (at least until you have a better idea of what Catholicism “is”)
Keeping an open mind and being open to put into practice the advice and suggestions from very learned and experienced religious men (such as the priests you previously mentioned) as well as learned, patient, and welcoming lay men (such as AnonymousBosch) without discounting it or overtly questioning it due to some gnostic-like tendencies.
Get what you have to and log off from the forum for a week or two. Don’t continue to engage or to spend time developing excuses and rationale for your behavior to those of us replying to you. We’ll be here when you get back and will be ready to listen and to help.
No-Designation Man
Robin
Clear as day what happened with the 'animosity' you developed for the Priest, Rob. You were drawing closer to God through a man. 1 Corinthians 3:4-8 was fulfilled, even if you and the Priest you 'belonged to' never intended it to be that way. When your guru 'failed', you lost your foundation.
As for the situation with your wife, don't try to patch things up *at this time*. You're in no position to lead a family; your own words indicate that you can't even lead yourself right now. The more times a couple 'try again', the more likely a permanent breakup becomes inevitable. Put this situation on the back-burner and approach it again when you're stronger.
Do not concern yourself with leaving 'this' church, or joining 'that' one. Your words indicate a spiritual crisis, not a religious one. A new church will not be an escape from anything, as you're running away from yourself.
Whether it be a Priest, any in-the-flesh associate, or the men in this Forum; we can only be a cruel crutch for you right now. To actually rehab yourself back into (spiritual) health, that will require real work that only you can accomplish.
Regarding your overall comment-history:
You seem to have both the intelligence and analytical abilities to give generally useful counsel that probably solve just about all problems in existence... except your own.
Now where have come across ^this^ before? Hmm.
Maybe that's why I called you "kid" in your other thread - You, Mr Banks, are almost an exact reflection of a younger version of me. The only difference between us, is that the "younger version of me" was naïve. You, however, cannot use that excuse. You already know what to do, so why do you fight doing it?
I'm being very firm this time, because I respect you enough to put my digital foot in your ass, by caring enough to tell you that's what you really need in order to go towards the proper direction.
Start a conversation-thread with God in a private prayer-forum, and let his Bible be your replies; that's where the answers you now seek will be found. Neither I, nor anyone else in this Forum, are really qualified to help you at this point.
As for the situation with your wife, don't try to patch things up *at this time*. You're in no position to lead a family; your own words indicate that you can't even lead yourself right now. The more times a couple 'try again', the more likely a permanent breakup becomes inevitable. Put this situation on the back-burner and approach it again when you're stronger.
Do not concern yourself with leaving 'this' church, or joining 'that' one. Your words indicate a spiritual crisis, not a religious one. A new church will not be an escape from anything, as you're running away from yourself.
Whether it be a Priest, any in-the-flesh associate, or the men in this Forum; we can only be a cruel crutch for you right now. To actually rehab yourself back into (spiritual) health, that will require real work that only you can accomplish.
Regarding your overall comment-history:
You seem to have both the intelligence and analytical abilities to give generally useful counsel that probably solve just about all problems in existence... except your own.
Now where have come across ^this^ before? Hmm.
Maybe that's why I called you "kid" in your other thread - You, Mr Banks, are almost an exact reflection of a younger version of me. The only difference between us, is that the "younger version of me" was naïve. You, however, cannot use that excuse. You already know what to do, so why do you fight doing it?
I'm being very firm this time, because I respect you enough to put my digital foot in your ass, by caring enough to tell you that's what you really need in order to go towards the proper direction.
Start a conversation-thread with God in a private prayer-forum, and let his Bible be your replies; that's where the answers you now seek will be found. Neither I, nor anyone else in this Forum, are really qualified to help you at this point.
Rob:
I will do this publicly, because it's important for anyone in future who stumbles across this who has similar problems with 'being good'.
Turning to God into Contemplation yesterday and this morning, a lot came to mind. And this is where I strongly suggest when you have these calls to an emotional venting online to turn to God first in prayer instead. Talk to him. Take him your problems, any burden you're carrying, and ask him to carry them for you. He will give you sufficient grace to bear your trials, and it works better if you don't whinge about the crosses you're expected to carry. The more space you give him in your life, by giving up the things you're attached to, the more he will fill you with his spirit.
For example, this 'occurred' to me during the rosary:
Satan will strike at the Shepherd in an attempt to scatter his sheep.
So, hold your ground.
With further prayer, here's a good example of Divine Providence in action:
- I was 'pushed' to Church by God on Saturday night, and talked to the Bishop, explaining the danger of Our Priest's work.
- You had your indiscreet emotional outburst, as you have a tendency to do. Meaning, your Out of Control Irascible Appetite (Anger) in your Animal Soul flares up and overrides your ability to make a rational Cogitative Judgement (your 'case by case' sense of moral reason) in your Spiritual Soul.
Once again, you are asking your Cogitation, 'what is the right thing to do?', but, due to its damaged nature, it responds:
This is the core of your problem with anger, despair, violence and drug use, and, until it is repaired, no amount of finding the right level of holiness if your religious structure will ever satisfy you, because you're expecting the Church to function as your Cogitative Power every single time you need to make a moral judgement, and that's beyond any earthly physical structure. Very politely: you've been expecting the forum to function the same way, and it's beyond all of us. God doesn't work that way. He wants to get to the root cause of the sin, and, particularly, he loves the heroic effort involved for us to go into these places and memories that are very physically-and-emotionally uncomfortable for us, and, if you can navigate this with courage and firm resolution, you will arrive in a very deep, loving relationship with Our Lord and things will start to get better.
- What you've done, however, is to provide a perfect illustration of what I was trying to explain to the Bishop: the unrepressed irascibility quickly overrides any gratitude or charity and turns against the Priest and Church.
Everything happens for a reason.
With that, may I ask your permission to share your post with the Bishop and I'll talk him through Our Priest's Doctorate? I don't want his sacrifice and hard work to be in vain, and it's just a matter of finding the right person higher in the church structure who listens. Because, otherwise, this pattern will repeat itself again and again, as it has for decades, to the great embarrassment and sanctity of the Church. There needs to be structural processes put in place for how to handle people like yourself and Our Priest has written those works.
I have no idea what you discussed with the Priest - seal of ministry, it's not my business - but did he ever bring up a process called RAAPRA for you? This is a series of mental steps that will act in place of your Cogitative Power until it is gradually-healed. He might have targeted the more pressing issues first.
Understand there's a LOT going on my end with many other people, some in worse emotional states, so I don't have a tonne of time to discuss every single moral question you have, and, because of this issue, it's impossible for anyone human to do this for you. This isn't to invalidate your pain, but I respond to what God shows has to be addressed first, meaning, He has you through this. Be patient. I'll get to you when I can. I'll need time to clearly write up RAAPRA to be able to talk you through the process so you can use this any time you have a 'what do i do here?' moment.
Also, understand that through ministry, I need downtime to offload other people's empathic baggage, since that is my Charism. Meaning, I spent about 5 hours in prayer yesterday, spread throughout the day at various times, giving back to God the burdens that have been unloaded onto me, the weight of which sometimes threatens to crush me. And I bear that joyfully for God, but it's a very important part of ministry that has to be done between each 'case' I work with because it's possible for me to pass the first person's baggage onto the next person I work with. I'm about to go pray for an hour to give your burdens, which have been my concern for the last 3 1/2 hours since I awoke, up to Jesus. The moment I get back, I'm onto the next person. This is why I write so little on the forum. Please, I beg your patience. Turn to God in prayer in the meantime, he might even step in and lift the burdens from both of us.
Is there a local library near you, or seminary? See if they have this book. It's well worth a read. There's even a chapter titled "What to do when the Church fails you."
https://www.amazon.com/Arise-Darkness-What-Doesnt-Sense/dp/0898705258
I will do this publicly, because it's important for anyone in future who stumbles across this who has similar problems with 'being good'.
Turning to God into Contemplation yesterday and this morning, a lot came to mind. And this is where I strongly suggest when you have these calls to an emotional venting online to turn to God first in prayer instead. Talk to him. Take him your problems, any burden you're carrying, and ask him to carry them for you. He will give you sufficient grace to bear your trials, and it works better if you don't whinge about the crosses you're expected to carry. The more space you give him in your life, by giving up the things you're attached to, the more he will fill you with his spirit.
For example, this 'occurred' to me during the rosary:
Satan will strike at the Shepherd in an attempt to scatter his sheep.
So, hold your ground.
With further prayer, here's a good example of Divine Providence in action:
- I was 'pushed' to Church by God on Saturday night, and talked to the Bishop, explaining the danger of Our Priest's work.
- You had your indiscreet emotional outburst, as you have a tendency to do. Meaning, your Out of Control Irascible Appetite (Anger) in your Animal Soul flares up and overrides your ability to make a rational Cogitative Judgement (your 'case by case' sense of moral reason) in your Spiritual Soul.
Once again, you are asking your Cogitation, 'what is the right thing to do?', but, due to its damaged nature, it responds:
This is the core of your problem with anger, despair, violence and drug use, and, until it is repaired, no amount of finding the right level of holiness if your religious structure will ever satisfy you, because you're expecting the Church to function as your Cogitative Power every single time you need to make a moral judgement, and that's beyond any earthly physical structure. Very politely: you've been expecting the forum to function the same way, and it's beyond all of us. God doesn't work that way. He wants to get to the root cause of the sin, and, particularly, he loves the heroic effort involved for us to go into these places and memories that are very physically-and-emotionally uncomfortable for us, and, if you can navigate this with courage and firm resolution, you will arrive in a very deep, loving relationship with Our Lord and things will start to get better.
- What you've done, however, is to provide a perfect illustration of what I was trying to explain to the Bishop: the unrepressed irascibility quickly overrides any gratitude or charity and turns against the Priest and Church.
Everything happens for a reason.
With that, may I ask your permission to share your post with the Bishop and I'll talk him through Our Priest's Doctorate? I don't want his sacrifice and hard work to be in vain, and it's just a matter of finding the right person higher in the church structure who listens. Because, otherwise, this pattern will repeat itself again and again, as it has for decades, to the great embarrassment and sanctity of the Church. There needs to be structural processes put in place for how to handle people like yourself and Our Priest has written those works.
I have no idea what you discussed with the Priest - seal of ministry, it's not my business - but did he ever bring up a process called RAAPRA for you? This is a series of mental steps that will act in place of your Cogitative Power until it is gradually-healed. He might have targeted the more pressing issues first.
Understand there's a LOT going on my end with many other people, some in worse emotional states, so I don't have a tonne of time to discuss every single moral question you have, and, because of this issue, it's impossible for anyone human to do this for you. This isn't to invalidate your pain, but I respond to what God shows has to be addressed first, meaning, He has you through this. Be patient. I'll get to you when I can. I'll need time to clearly write up RAAPRA to be able to talk you through the process so you can use this any time you have a 'what do i do here?' moment.
Also, understand that through ministry, I need downtime to offload other people's empathic baggage, since that is my Charism. Meaning, I spent about 5 hours in prayer yesterday, spread throughout the day at various times, giving back to God the burdens that have been unloaded onto me, the weight of which sometimes threatens to crush me. And I bear that joyfully for God, but it's a very important part of ministry that has to be done between each 'case' I work with because it's possible for me to pass the first person's baggage onto the next person I work with. I'm about to go pray for an hour to give your burdens, which have been my concern for the last 3 1/2 hours since I awoke, up to Jesus. The moment I get back, I'm onto the next person. This is why I write so little on the forum. Please, I beg your patience. Turn to God in prayer in the meantime, he might even step in and lift the burdens from both of us.
Is there a local library near you, or seminary? See if they have this book. It's well worth a read. There's even a chapter titled "What to do when the Church fails you."
https://www.amazon.com/Arise-Darkness-What-Doesnt-Sense/dp/0898705258
Last edited:
Wait, no, that's a good book on suffering, but this book is more important. This isn't a self-help book: this is the work of Catholic Psychologist based on the work of Dr Anna Teruwe, who had first identified this problem in the 1940, and was demonized by the Legalists in the Church. She was later formally-apologised to by the Church. Her and Conrad Baars approached the Vatican, in 1960, pre-Vatican II, and warned them that their seminarians were all dangerously sexually-immature, and, if untreated, their repression would break down into sexually-abuse. They were ignored: look what happened.
This is a very easy to read breakdown of the thrust of their work aimed at a casual audience:
https://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Heal...g+your+emotions&qid=1598913758&s=books&sr=1-1
It's a very, very good place to start to understand the issues at play and what needs to be fixed. I strongly advise you take the time to read it.
Off to pray. God bless you.
This is a very easy to read breakdown of the thrust of their work aimed at a casual audience:
https://www.amazon.com/Feeling-Heal...g+your+emotions&qid=1598913758&s=books&sr=1-1
It's a very, very good place to start to understand the issues at play and what needs to be fixed. I strongly advise you take the time to read it.
Off to pray. God bless you.
^ One MORE thing. Read his book by placing yourself in a passive state. You're can't 'morally-analyse' his work because you're currently-incapable of moral analysis, so, receive the information without desiring to question it.
Our Priest would recommend you start with this work too.
Our Priest would recommend you start with this work too.
Rob Banks
Pelican
I am not angry that the first priest was unable to help. He is busy, like you said. And he does is not really someone that specialized in providing that type of spiritual direction.
I’m not a fan of “natural” solutions because what is usually meant by that is secular psychology and medication.
Fr. Chad Ripperger has a very good short video series on YouTube regarding why modern secular psychology rejects God and does not work.
The second priest I mentioned was very very helpful. He was introduced to me by a respectable forum member. I am more upset at myself that I couldn’t turn thing around (even with his help) than I was at him.
I was also very upset that he was forced, due to circumstances outside of his control, to stop working with me for now (and possibly forever, depending on how it works out) right when I felt like I needed him the most.
But, as others have pointed out, this is a selfish attitude, and I should instead be praying for him that he (the priest) be able to resolve the situation and get back to ministering people.
Why do I keep posting about this on the forum? Because I have no where else to turn where I won’t be given useless secular advice (“accept divorce,” “seek drugs and medication,” etc.). Other have pointed out to me that I maybe shouldn’t post publicly about this, though, and I suppose they’re right.
Thanks for taking the time to write out a thorough response. God bless.
Last edited: