Becoming disillusioned with the Church. I want to avoid losing my faith.

Rob Banks

Pelican
Rob:

I will do this publicly, because it's important for anyone in future who stumbles across this who has similar problems with 'being good'.

Turning to God into Contemplation yesterday and this morning, a lot came to mind. And this is where I strongly suggest when you have these calls to an emotional venting online to turn to God first in prayer instead. Talk to him. Take him your problems, any burden you're carrying, and ask him to carry them for you. He will give you sufficient grace to bear your trials, and it works better if you don't whinge about the crosses you're expected to carry. The more space you give him in your life, by giving up the things you're attached to, the more he will fill you with his spirit.

For example, this 'occurred' to me during the rosary:

Satan will strike at the Shepherd in an attempt to scatter his sheep.

So, hold your ground.

With further prayer, here's a good example of Divine Providence in action:

- I was 'pushed' to Church by God on Saturday night, and talked to the Bishop, explaining the danger of Our Priest's work.

- You had your indiscreet emotional outburst, as you have a tendency to do. Meaning, your Out of Control Irascible Appetite (Anger) in your Animal Soul flares up and overrides your ability to make a rational Cogitative Judgement (your 'case by case' sense of moral reason) in your Spiritual Soul.

Once again, you are asking your Cogitation, 'what is the right thing to do?', but, due to its damaged nature, it responds:

i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing-science-dog1-e1441990266456.jpg


This is the core of your problem with anger, despair, violence and drug use, and, until it is repaired, no amount of finding the right level of holiness if your religious structure will ever satisfy you, because you're expecting the Church to function as your Cogitative Power every single time you need to make a moral judgement, and that's beyond any earthly physical structure. Very politely: you've been expecting the forum to function the same way, and it's beyond all of us. God doesn't work that way. He wants to get to the root cause of the sin, and, particularly, he loves the heroic effort involved for us to go into these places and memories that are very physically-and-emotionally uncomfortable for us, and, if you can navigate this with courage and firm resolution, you will arrive in a very deep, loving relationship with Our Lord and things will start to get better.

- What you've done, however, is to provide a perfect illustration of what I was trying to explain to the Bishop: the unrepressed irascibility quickly overrides any gratitude or charity and turns against the Priest and Church.

Everything happens for a reason.

With that, may I ask your permission to share your post with the Bishop and I'll talk him through Our Priest's Doctorate? I don't want his sacrifice and hard work to be in vain, and it's just a matter of finding the right person higher in the church structure who listens. Because, otherwise, this pattern will repeat itself again and again, as it has for decades, to the great embarrassment and sanctity of the Church. There needs to be structural processes put in place for how to handle people like yourself and Our Priest has written those works.

I have no idea what you discussed with the Priest - seal of ministry, it's not my business - but did he ever bring up a process called RAAPRA for you? This is a series of mental steps that will act in place of your Cogitative Power until it is gradually-healed. He might have targeted the more pressing issues first.

Understand there's a LOT going on my end with many other people, some in worse emotional states, so I don't have a tonne of time to discuss every single moral question you have, and, because of this issue, it's impossible for anyone human to do this for you. This isn't to invalidate your pain, but I respond to what God shows has to be addressed first, meaning, He has you through this. Be patient. I'll get to you when I can. I'll need time to clearly write up RAAPRA to be able to talk you through the process so you can use this any time you have a 'what do i do here?' moment.

Also, understand that through ministry, I need downtime to offload other people's empathic baggage, since that is my Charism. Meaning, I spent about 5 hours in prayer yesterday, spread throughout the day at various times, giving back to God the burdens that have been unloaded onto me, the weight of which sometimes threatens to crush me. And I bear that joyfully for God, but it's a very important part of ministry that has to be done between each 'case' I work with because it's possible for me to pass the first person's baggage onto the next person I work with. I'm about to go pray for an hour to give your burdens, which have been my concern for the last 3 1/2 hours since I awoke, up to Jesus. The moment I get back, I'm onto the next person. This is why I write so little on the forum. Please, I beg your patience. Turn to God in prayer in the meantime, he might even step in and lift the burdens from both of us.

Is there a local library near you, or seminary? See if they have this book. It's well worth a read. There's even a chapter titled "What to do when the Church fails you."

https://www.amazon.com/Arise-Darkness-What-Doesnt-Sense/dp/0898705258
Yes, absolutely, you can share my post with the bishop if you believe that will be helpful to the priest.

I’m not sure if me and the priest discussed RAAPRA. The acronym sounds familiar, but I don’t believe I heard it from him.

He did tell me about how my cogitative judgements are damaged. But I am not sure what that actually means. When I look up the definitions online, “cogitation” and “cognition” seem to have almost the same dictionary definition, but the priest had told me they are actually very different.

Thanks for the response. I will try and check out that book.

EDIT: I Googled “RAAPRA” and all I’m getting is rap and music videos. Maybe you can explain what RAAPRA is when you have a chance. Thanks.
 
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What do you mean by this?
Previous post: "younger version of me"

As time went on, Rob, I grew in my understanding of many things, so I began giving more and more advice to other people that would help them; but I initially lagged in actually being able to get my own life in order.

Whether the younger version of me (speaking literally about myself) was a hypocrite, or a confused dumbass, or both - I'll let others conclude their own correct opinions regarding that.

Logout time.
Goodnight, Mr Banks.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Yes, absolutely, you can share my post with the bishop if you believe that will be helpful to the priest.

I’m not sure if me and the priest discussed RAAPRA. The acronym sounds familiar, but I don’t believe I heard it from him.

He did tell me about how my cogitative judgements are damaged. But I am not sure what that actually means. When I look up the definitions online, “cogitation” and “cognition” seem to have almost the same dictionary definition, but the priest had told me they are actually very different.

Thanks for the response. I will try and check out that book.

EDIT: I Googled “RAAPRA” and all I’m getting is rap and music videos. Maybe you can explain what RAAPRA is when you have a chance. Thanks.

Ok, this is very positive news Rob, the Holy Spirit has guided me to the core issue you're dealing with through observing your patterns of behaviour over time, and this is clearly why we've been put together by divine providence and I've been fighting for you so hard. A lot of your posts are basically asking others to fill in for your damaged cogitative power: "What should I do?" but all that's going to result in is a flood of different people's opinions that might all contradict each other, and you still won't know which one too chose because you effectively don't know how to choose. This is why you can't choose through your free will to not fall into sexual sin or drug use, because you don't currently possess free will, as St Thomas Aquinas understands it, and many Priests will not understand that and place the blame on recidivism.

Did the Priest mention the three directives to you? I know they're incredibly-confronting to accept, but they're the way out of this living hell you're in. If not, I'm going to have to talk you through them privately, but it might take me some time to figure out how to teach them to you.

Understand that when I use terms like Cogitative Power I'm speaking in Thomistic use of the Terms, not Secular Terms, so grabbing a secular dictionary won't always help. For example, one of Conrad Baars books is called 'Psychic Wholeness and Healing'. It was written long before New Age existed. He's describing the Psyche, the Spiritual Soul. This is different again from the Freudian conception of Psyche, a classic example of the agents of the enemy overturning the language of God ie. redefining sodomy as 'love'.

I did write the cogitative damage issues up in the sexual abuse thread earlier this year in great detail, if you have a hunt around for it. Understand their are other issues besides sexual abuse that can generate the same processes, so don't assume you've been abused. I'm just going to use me as an example.

Short version: Cognition is your Reason, which is made up of speculative and practical knowledge of the truth. This is your inclination to the good and the true. You're struggling to be good because your reason desires to be good. It's working fine. If you didn't care about God at all, you won't be having such a hard time. It exists in the Spiritual Soul, out of Reach of the Demonic.

Your Cogitative Power exists in the Animal Soul, which can be influenced by the Demonic, but understand that not every behavioural issue is necessarily demonic, particularly if you've undergone deliverance. It's another form of reason, but in this case it's Particular, rather than overarching, the way Cognition is. Meaning, it is how you choose the right moral choice in the situation you currently find yourself in.

You have two sensitive appetites or powers: the Concupisible ones involve pleasure sensations (love desire joy hate sadness aversion), the Irascible Ones are the useful emotions that attempt to control them (hope despair daring fear anger). Conflict often arises between these two powers, which can only be mediated by the Cogitative Power. It functions as referee, whose decision is final. However, if it has been damaged via certain childhood processes, such as extreme trauma it can't give you a decision, and the powers keep warring. If your Irascible Power dominates, it will crush the Concupiscible desire, by repressing it from conscious thought, but it will continue to act on a subconscious level.

This is Catholic Psychology. Other denominations won't understand this.

In my case: I had no idea I was serial violently raped as a child, until Jesus revealed it to me during therapy. It was bad enough that I was sobbing to Jesus as he showed me, hearing the child screaming for God to save him, realising that his heart was being torn from his body and he'd lost his heart forever. The result being four major behavioural issues for the rest of my life:

- I completely repressed the traumas from my conscious memory, though they still existed in my unconscious drives of my behaviour. I was just coming back down the hill earlier after contemplation and remembered being struck down with Fibromyalgia in my 20's. I knew this already, but Jesus just clarified something else for me I hadn't previously-linked. Just before I fell sick, I was cataloguing Crime Scene Photos during my work, and came across the photos of my Rapist after his body had been dragged out of the River. Note that although I had no conscious memory of what he'd done to me, my body reacted on an unconscious level, and 'shut down' soon after because the constant act of repression takes a physical toll on the body.

- I unconsciously-decided that if God had let that happen to me, he didn't love me, and that I was unlovable, and spent my life rejecting him in return. I was your classic Leftist through my 20's. This is why I have great compassion for them, because I suspect you don't just 'decide' to reject God on a casual whim. I do not desire the death of the sinner... and I will not condemn them. I prayed for those very messed up men shot by that Kyle kid, despite what they'd done in life. I might be the only prayers they ever get.

- Anytime I ever felt sexual desire in future (concupiscible appetite), fear (irascible appetite) would furiously flare up to fight that desire, because Sex meant Trauma. Without a Cogitative Power, damaged by the trauma, Fear would win out over desire and repress the desire from conscious thought, but since it wasn't resolved properly, it would simply be transferred to unconscious thought. This guarantees an eventual breakdown into uncontrolled behaviour (I don't want to bang, but I'm banging before I even decide if I want to bang or not). Generally, sexual repression either results in Excess (Frigidity) or Excess (Sexual Promiscuity). Look at your porn girls. I've got somewhere north of 2000 women under my belt, easily. My mates had a running joke whenever they'd talk about me, they'd say "Bosch, the manwhore", because of what they saw as my insane ability to talk a woman into bed. I had the nickname "The charming motherf***er" for a long time too, but manwhore is more accurate. It wasn't ability with women, it was uncontrolled compulsion. Throw in my physicality and my inability to truly love, and I was crack to them.

- I turned myself into what I thought the most masculine man imaginable, so no-one would ever mess with me again. Of course, frozen as a child, I turned myself into a child's action figure, yet, still never felt like a man. Our Priest was always trying to patiently explain to me whenever the little old ladies would all be very scared whenever I'd front up at church that "Bosch, you do realise you're a very scary looking man, right?" No, no I didn't, even when I had a half-metre of neck, and would have to use the second button on any shirt as a makeshift 'top button'. To me I'm just the gentle little kid I always was, who is more interested in playing Cat Quest II than Call of Duty, and doesn't even have the excuse of being a furry. It just looks innocent.

shirtissues - Copy.jpg

This seems to be the problem of the modern age: the younger guys, as they're exposed to sexual information often before the age of reason, are having similar issues. They're playing men, rather than being them. This is why the Chad / PUA / /fit/ ideas are all so toxic. You don't become a man by choosing a persona provided to you by popular culture. You become masculine by avoiding effeminacy. What is that, exactly? Let's ask St Thomas Aquinas, who says effeminacy is “A reluctance to suffer, due to an attachment to pleasure.”

The absolute bombardment of physical and spiritual hell that God has put me through the last two years is truly making me into a man. I still have a long way to go, sure. There's never an end to the journey in this life. But, even there's time where those around me comment on what I seem able to bear. Which I'm not, it's all God, and still I think "I'm a poor and unprofitable servant".

So, I now deeply understand myself, my behaviour and certain attachments to sin, rather than the comfortable lies of self-deception, because God did exactly what was promised: revealed the truth of the root causes of my behaviour so at to repair them. So, do you understand where I'm coming from with my advice to you? I've already walked this road. I was where you are now. I am giving you the map to move forward.

START WITH THE BAARS BOOK. Don't 'try' to read it. Just read it. You need it.

No, it won't be a quick fix, because God wants it done properly and finally. He's calling you because he loves you, but you have to understand you're not currently capable of following a legalistic framework for a 'Justice' construct of God, which will only aggravate your repressive behaviour. What you need to do is what I've always been encouraging you to do: approach him via his Mercy. Focus on Jesus' love and compassion for the sinner for now, and offering up your little inconveniences in life with love to Him. It's an 'elevator' to God. If you're ever ready to read theology, I highly recommend Carmelite Authors to you. This is also why I recommended you watch 'The Shack'. Pay attention to the whole through line of how God's mercy can heal the unthinkable act.

I hope that makes what I'm talking about clearer to you.

You won't find RAAPRA online. This is something that came to Our Priest through private revelation, and his current presentation seems a little hard for people to grasp, so I need to figure out how to 'dumb it down' a little. Be patient.

Once again, I'm not saying your issues are related to sexual abuse. There are many other causes that can create similar effects - and this would be why the Left focuses on trying to destroy the innocence of children before they're ready for it, so they never have a functioning ability to tell right from wrong - but it will take time for these to be revealed.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Another example of Irascible Outbursts from Repressive types. I was dealing with an incredibly Legalistic Stalker a couple of years ago, whom was always placid at the various church groups and made a big show of his devotions and holiness. He was one of your classic 'no communion in the hand', 'latin mass only' types. "That person doesn't even pray the Angelus, like *I* do." He had the classic Legalist appearance of Performing Holiness and deferring to the Priests... until they were out of earshot, then it was constant judgments about their lack of holiness. Sometimes, during RCIA, I'd gentle correct a misconception he had - hey, I read - and it would escalate into him shouting at me across the table within 30 seconds. One time, I said I had no interest in killing Muslims, which involved the much smaller Priest trying to pull him off of me.

St Therese taught me that some people are incredibly unpleasant, and are condemned to live very lonely lives because of it, so I bore all of this very patiently and tried my best to be his friend, offering it up to God. But there were times that he was so hung up on his opinion that pointing out he was contradicting himself within the space of two sentences didn't work - 'you're twisting my words' - and I would have to say "I'm not about to apologise for reading the Doctors of the Church."

This was God warning me that Legalism isn't the true way to him. The Pharisees were Legalists. It seems to be a trap that evidences soon after First Justification, perhaps as an Excessive Reaction to our Sinful Pasts. "I'll be the holiest person at the holiest church there is - the stricter the better." The spiritual defects of the Purgative Way are common knowledge to Priests. I chose a random page two nights back from a theology book to show Leonard how useful a text it is, and is just happened to be on the misconceptions of perfection in the purgative way. Obviously, it was needed for now. Have a look:

perfectionedit - Copy.jpg

See how actionable that advice is? (Rev Adolphe Tanqueray, "The Spiritual Life')

I had to learn all this intuitively, via trial and error, through the first year of justification. Most people's spiritual issues could be easily resolved if they'd just do the reading instead of expecting the priests to carry them. The advice I give Penitents is always straight out of the Spiritual Direction textbooks, as they're universally-accepted advice by the Church. I'm not here making up my own beliefs.

But my Stalker never would read any of these books, or take advice, because he had his opinion, and don't you dare challenge it. Which would mean, I wouldn't hear from him for months, then receive an irascible outburst, and have no idea what set him off. Case in point:

stalkeredit - Copy.jpg

I still pray for him. He clearly has had this issue for over 10 yeras, as he'd be thrown into bouts of compulsive masturbation whilst watching, say 'The Bold and the Beautiful'. Note how gentle the trigger can be: he wasn't having to watch pornography to be triggered. He's still in Vocal Prayer, the lowest form of Prayer. I reached Infused Contemplation within a year by following the spiritual guidance of books like Tanqueray.

Funnily enough, dealing with a particularly disagreeable individual for months on end is one of the standard Contemplative Trials. So, God was using him to purify me.

Once again, Rob, start with the Baars book.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Another example of Irascible Outbursts from Repressive types. I was dealing with an incredibly Legalistic Stalker a couple of years ago, whom was always placid at the various church groups and made a big show of his devotions and holiness. He was one of your classic 'no communion in the hand', 'latin mass only' types. "That person doesn't even pray the Angelus, like *I* do." He had the classic Legalist appearance of Performing Holiness and deferring to the Priests... until they were out of earshot, then it was constant judgments about their lack of holiness. Sometimes, during RCIA, I'd gentle correct a misconception he had - hey, I read - and it would escalate into him shouting at me across the table within 30 seconds. One time, I said I had no interest in killing Muslims, which involved the much smaller Priest trying to pull him off of me.

St Therese taught me that some people are incredibly unpleasant, and are condemned to live very lonely lives because of it, so I bore all of this very patiently and tried my best to be his friend, offering it up to God. But there were times that he was so hung up on his opinion that pointing out he was contradicting himself within the space of two sentences didn't work - 'you're twisting my words' - and I would have to say "I'm not about to apologise for reading the Doctors of the Church."

This was God warning me that Legalism isn't the true way to him. The Pharisees were Legalists. It seems to be a trap that evidences soon after First Justification, perhaps as an Excessive Reaction to our Sinful Pasts. "I'll be the holiest person at the holiest church there is - the stricter the better." The spiritual defects of the Purgative Way are common knowledge to Priests. I chose a random page two nights back from a theology book to show Leonard how useful a text it is, and is just happened to be on the misconceptions of perfection in the purgative way. Obviously, it was needed for now. Have a look:

View attachment 24862

See how actionable that advice is? (Rev Adolphe Tanqueray, "The Spiritual Life')

I had to learn all this intuitively, via trial and error, through the first year of justification. Most people's spiritual issues could be easily resolved if they'd just do the reading instead of expecting the priests to carry them. The advice I give Penitents is always straight out of the Spiritual Direction textbooks, as they're universally-accepted advice by the Church. I'm not here making up my own beliefs.

But my Stalker never would read any of these books, or take advice, because he had his opinion, and don't you dare challenge it. Which would mean, I wouldn't hear from him for months, then receive an irascible outburst, and have no idea what set him off. Case in point:

View attachment 24864

I still pray for him. He clearly has had this issue for over 10 yeras, as he'd be thrown into bouts of compulsive masturbation whilst watching, say 'The Bold and the Beautiful'. Note how gentle the trigger can be: he wasn't having to watch pornography to be triggered. He's still in Vocal Prayer, the lowest form of Prayer. I reached Infused Contemplation within a year by following the spiritual guidance of books like Tanqueray.

Funnily enough, dealing with a particularly disagreeable individual for months on end is one of the standard Contemplative Trials. So, God was using him to purify me.

Once again, Rob, start with the Baars book.
Yes, I will order the book.

I will be off the forum for about a week starting tomorrow. So if you write something to me and I don’t read it right away, that is why.

Thank you and God bless.
 

Augustus_Principe

Woodpecker
I I meant to respond yesterday, but i'm on the verge of finally doing my First communion, so I've been communicating with my priest back and forth, reading literature, etc.

Anyway, I know we have discussed this topic in the past, even with my limited, but growing knowledge of the Faith. Many of the replies here have already said more or less what was in my own mind. I think @JohnKreese hit the nail in the head. Most replies are on point as well.

There's not much else I can say, other than I can see why the priest would tell you that you are perhaps in need to dealing with some of your issues in a secular manner. From what I recall, your marriage was NOT done inside a church...Years back, you decided to marry in a SECULAR manner, therefore, there's not much a Priest can do for you. Have you married validly inside the church, perhaps things would be different. You have reached out to this forum time and time again, with the same issue of not wanting to get divorced. I believe this is at the root cause of all your issues that follow. You simply refuse to let go of your wife from a secular marriage, even though you live countries apart, she wants nothing to do with you(because if she did, she would be living with you), her family hates you, on and on and on. I am merely stating what you have told us, I'm not recounting these things to make you feel bad. Every single person in this forum can see the writing on the wall BUT YOU. More or less we have been giving you the same advice for months. You are refusing to see reality. Until you start to see reality, there's not much we or anyone else can do for you.

I hope you heed the advice of the members here. I did mention you in my intentions when I prayed my rosary last night, and I will do so again tonight as well. As a matter of fact, I will mention you in my prayers for the rest of the week, Rob. Stay well and I hope everything becomes more clear in a few weeks time for you. God Bless you.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
Yes, I will order the book.

I will be off the forum for about a week starting tomorrow. So if you write something to me and I don’t read it right away, that is why.

Thank you and God bless.

No worries mate. I'm going to put some stuff together for you and a week is a good amount of time, given how busy things are for me, and I'm hoping I can gently ask Our Priest for some context in the meantime, whilst showing him you've already opened up about the therapy, but I also understand he simply mightn't be allowed to discuss you, and will have to respect that.

Travel safely. Remember: Jesus, I trust in you. You're going to have to learn to mortify your need to fly off the handle, and, yes, I know it's going to take effort and work and it won't always succeed. Keep trying anyway.
 
Another example of Irascible Outbursts from Repressive types. I was dealing with an incredibly Legalistic Stalker a couple of years ago, whom was always placid at the various church groups and made a big show of his devotions and holiness. He was one of your classic 'no communion in the hand', 'latin mass only' types. "That person doesn't even pray the Angelus, like *I* do." He had the classic Legalist appearance of Performing Holiness and deferring to the Priests... until they were out of earshot, then it was constant judgments about their lack of holiness. Sometimes, during RCIA, I'd gentle correct a misconception he had - hey, I read - and it would escalate into him shouting at me across the table within 30 seconds. One time, I said I had no interest in killing Muslims, which involved the much smaller Priest trying to pull him off of me.

St Therese taught me that some people are incredibly unpleasant, and are condemned to live very lonely lives because of it, so I bore all of this very patiently and tried my best to be his friend, offering it up to God. But there were times that he was so hung up on his opinion that pointing out he was contradicting himself within the space of two sentences didn't work - 'you're twisting my words' - and I would have to say "I'm not about to apologise for reading the Doctors of the Church."

This was God warning me that Legalism isn't the true way to him. The Pharisees were Legalists. It seems to be a trap that evidences soon after First Justification, perhaps as an Excessive Reaction to our Sinful Pasts. "I'll be the holiest person at the holiest church there is - the stricter the better." The spiritual defects of the Purgative Way are common knowledge to Priests. I chose a random page two nights back from a theology book to show Leonard how useful a text it is, and is just happened to be on the misconceptions of perfection in the purgative way. Obviously, it was needed for now. Have a look:

View attachment 24862

See how actionable that advice is? (Rev Adolphe Tanqueray, "The Spiritual Life')

I had to learn all this intuitively, via trial and error, through the first year of justification. Most people's spiritual issues could be easily resolved if they'd just do the reading instead of expecting the priests to carry them. The advice I give Penitents is always straight out of the Spiritual Direction textbooks, as they're universally-accepted advice by the Church. I'm not here making up my own beliefs.

But my Stalker never would read any of these books, or take advice, because he had his opinion, and don't you dare challenge it. Which would mean, I wouldn't hear from him for months, then receive an irascible outburst, and have no idea what set him off. Case in point:

View attachment 24864

I still pray for him. He clearly has had this issue for over 10 yeras, as he'd be thrown into bouts of compulsive masturbation whilst watching, say 'The Bold and the Beautiful'. Note how gentle the trigger can be: he wasn't having to watch pornography to be triggered. He's still in Vocal Prayer, the lowest form of Prayer. I reached Infused Contemplation within a year by following the spiritual guidance of books like Tanqueray.

Funnily enough, dealing with a particularly disagreeable individual for months on end is one of the standard Contemplative Trials. So, God was using him to purify me.

Once again, Rob, start with the Baars book.
This is why the work of the Holy Spirit is superior. Our Sinfulness makes it impossible to keep the Law in Spirit and Truth. Leading to Legalism or License in many cases.

Unlike our King who was perfect in character in motives, thoughts and deeds.

And the Righteousness of Christ is worked into us via the Holy Spirit. Through the process of Sanctification.

The Law which served as a Mirror only brought Death to the sinner. Since his sin has been so righteously condemned and even his keeping of the Law is tainted by wrong motives.

As for the notion that strictness is the same as holiness. And the fact that it's a reaction to past sinfulness. I believe Augustine fits the bill.

Since Augustine was a Sexual Libertine he swung strongly in favor of Frigitity. Even his repentance of Manichean notions of procreation and marriage is not truly complete as he still retains the severe error of sexual passion as always being lust.

So hateful was the sexual union he speculated asexual reproduction in Eden absent the fall.

As I quoted in this thread:


In truth Holiness is the Golden Mean and only is strict in comparison with sinful license. But sin can turn even righteous conduct into Legalism.
 
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Rob Banks

Pelican
No worries mate. I'm going to put some stuff together for you and a week is a good amount of time, given how busy things are for me, and I'm hoping I can gently ask Our Priest for some context in the meantime, whilst showing him you've already opened up about the therapy, but I also understand he simply mightn't be allowed to discuss you, and will have to respect that.

Travel safely. Remember: Jesus, I trust in you. You're going to have to learn to mortify your need to fly off the handle, and, yes, I know it's going to take effort and work and it won't always succeed. Keep trying anyway.
There are things I discussed that I certainly wouldn’t want the priest sharing with anyone, but there are other things I wouldn’t mind if he did talk about.

I can possibly contact him to give him permission, but I’m not sure if I should.

He said I could text him if necessary, and I have already done that several times, and he has responded despite the fact that he’s not supposed to really talk to me. So I don’t want to keep bothering him unless necessary.
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
OK. Yeah, I did say to you a while back I didn't really want to know about what you and Him are talking about, because it's not my business. I'll simply ask in General Terms of what will be the best focus for your advancement at this point in time, and, with trust in God, hopefully he'll be returned to you in a few weeks and can take back over.

I don't need to know the specifics of your dysfunction, (and I'm not remotely curious about anything said privately - I'm just sharing my own damage hoping to illustrate from experience the potential severity of the problem), I just want to know what tools are needed now to keep moving you forward, if that makes sense.

Walk in faith, mate. God trials us, sure, but sometimes, accepted graciously, the trials don't turn out to be as severe as we expect. Praise Him. Understand that I am being trained by Our Priest to do what He can do - empathically identify spiritual disorders via the holy spirit - but it's only early days for me, so you have to be patient. This also isn't something I wanted or asked for. I already need another hour in prayer, so I'll take my leave again.

I'll let you travel for the next week. I want to write to the bishop over the next day or two, so need to focus on that. You understand why.
 
So watching this thread unfold has been very interesting. All this started with a basic question: what do I do about not being satisfied with my church?

I debated whether I should say what I'm about to say...

There's kernels of good advice here and there. However, with all due respect, the conversation is very melodramatic and verges on manic. I don't know your whole story or some of the other posters but my experience has been people who seek mania enjoy mania, not unlike drugs. I don't see this thread as healthy and these types of interactions might be making your problem worse, not better.

You seem to want to connect meaningfully with others. Seeking out busy men for more talk and introspection isn't how you'll do it. Getting outside and accomplishing something tangible alongside men with good values is.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
So watching this thread unfold has been very interesting. All this started with a basic question: what do I do about not being satisfied with my church?

I debated whether I should say what I'm about to say...

There's kernels of good advice here and there. However, with all due respect, the conversation is very melodramatic and verges on manic. I don't know your whole story or some of the other posters but my experience has been people who seek mania enjoy mania, not unlike drugs. I don't see this thread as healthy and these types of interactions might be making your problem worse, not better.

You seem to want to connect meaningfully with others. Seeking out busy men for more talk and introspection isn't how you'll do it. Getting outside and accomplishing something tangible alongside men with good values is.
Yes, I have had several people reach out to me privately with very helpful advice, but also to tell me that starting this thread publicly was probably a misguided thing to do.

I can’t take it back now, though.

I do not believe I am enjoying the attention (or “mania” as you put it) like a drug. I simply was in a bad place and made the mistake of discussing it publicly.

Like I said, people like @AnonymousBosch and others have reached out to me privately, so it is unnecessary for me to continue to talk publicly about all this.
 

Grey

Sparrow
I have been talking to a priest who specialized in delivering people from demons. I will ask and obey his advice in terms of whether or not I should be posting on the forum.

Anything that can communicate can be a medium for spirits. The interenet is no exception. But most spirits are not bad, the Dragon only took 1\3 of the stars with him.

Do the people on this forum encourage or discourage you? Do they point towards a Christian life or towards degeneracy?

Those are the questions to ask when you think about if you should participate in this or any other forum.

Of course a forum could be full of Christians but if they're all focused on the evils of the world and are black-pilled it may be that the spirits of the Devil are overwhelming. In that case they're letting too much satanic media (yes, even a lot of news is satanic media) in.

You said in your first post you feel you are not making progress. I wanted to proffer some information about progress that may or may not serve you well.

You have heard, body, soul, spirit, right? Your body will take time to heal, it will deal with relapses and remission and usually things get worse before they get better when getting clean of drugs, right? In many ways progress isn't felt until you're well past the major hurdles you'll face.

Soul can be roughly divided into two parts: the seat of emotion and the seat of intelect. Both are fickle, deceptive, and inconsistent. You'll feel better or worse depending on how the day went or the state of your digestion, you'll think you're better or worse depending on how you decide to rationalize things on any given day.

Spirit is something outside of, above, and beyond these things. It is not an idea you hold or a feeling you have. Even being aware of it is something that takes time to develop, and it cannot be aptly explained by the physical senses.

As long as you are repentant, you hate the evil you were involved with and want to find the way to God, God will work on sanctifying your spirit. It is an arduous process that takes time and as it happens it will gradually force changes in your perspective of everything and how you relate to others.

This process of sanctification is not a 'spiritual feeling', in fact the spiritual feeling is generally just an emotional high. It is a gradual purifying of you from desire for evil. It is removing from you that which is not you, you are not supposed to be full of sin.

As you are sanctified you will find that suffering is different. It is not less, but it is more understandable, more bearable, and in many ways smaller, though the pain is the same. There comes a peace and joy that endures though suffering, and supersedes it. If you wish to simply escape suffering than the religion of the cross is not the one for you. If you wish to overcome it, you will be shown how.

Sanctification is the purest kind of mastery. As you continue in repentance and faith you will find that your emotional and intellectual state gradually become more and more stable as they submit to the changes in your spirit. These changes to how you feel, think, and act will change how others relate to you. Then you will start to see the earthly benefits you are looking for.
 
I heard one of the best pastors in the world describe his first few steps toward developing his faith. In order to condition himself to knowing/believing God was always with him, he set a 5 minute timer on his watch. No matter what he was doing, every five minutes, he would get reminded that he was in God's spiritual presence. He then increased the timer interval until he didn't need it any more. If you feel you're slipping into old habits, perhaps something along those lines could help?
 

AnonymousBosch

Crow
Gold Member
OK, I discussed Rob's situation with the Priest in question last night, whom, obviously whilst under great emotional pressure, still had enough concern for Rob to call and talk to me.

He confirmed that, yes, the Holy Spirit's guidance was correct, Rob's Cogitative Power is damaged and will need to be repaired.

I'm mentioning this publicly so people have compassion for his situation.

What this means, if you're trying to help, you're not, even if you 'mean well':

- You can't tell him to just 'get over it' or 'move on' or 'do something to take your mind off of it', because he's suffering with unconscious behavioural drives that he has no conscious power over, yet.

- You can't tell him to just 'trust in God', because he doesn't yet know how to do that, since the core unconscious problem is an erroneous, deep-seated fear of eternal punishment by God.

- You definitely can't encourage him into a stricter, more legalistic (re: Old Testament) view of God, because this will only increase his fear of punishment, mental torment and scruples, because he doesn't have the ability to make moral judgments under his own power yet. The solution is the truth of the Gospel, the Old Law passed away, and the New Law of Love replaced it. God is our loving Father, and we are his children, not his slaves. The last thing he needs is SSPX style rigidity: note the child abuse problem is now evidencing there, exactly as Baars / Teruewe predicted.

- Those who are sharing stories by propaganda outlets to get a cheap shot in against the Catholic Church really aren't helping, because if he reads them, it threatens to spiral him into an irascible outburst and resulting despair.

Everything I have ever written to Him was encouragement along these lines, other than Deliverance.

What Rob needs to understand is, yes there's a Natural Law that needs to be obeyed, but God has also left us ways the severity of the Law is mitigated through compassion, for he is a loving God.

Think of an aeroplane. If you leap out of it, yes, the Law of Gravity must be obeyed, and it's not going to end well. Well, God can bend this law by offering you a parachute.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church about, for example, masturbation:

2532 To form an equitable judgment about the subject's moral responsibility and to guide pastoral actions [ie how Priests judge culpability for sin in a Penitent], one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that can lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Do you see all the parachutes provided, that allow someone like Rob to land safely? But what if he is listening to people who tell him those parachutes don't exist? When I talk about the Divine Mercy and other arcs up to tell me how cruel God is, ready to destroy us for the slightest transgression, can you see how damaging and cruel that is place that weight upon Rob's shoulders when the compassionate standards of behaviour are lowered for people whom already suffer so greatly?

It's not that he keeps falling into sin that proves he doesn't love God, it's his Reason constantly trying to fight his broken cogitation and, despite humiliation, always choosing to return to God, that shows he loves him very much, and this is what God wants from us weaker souls: that we always return to him, even if we deeply-despise ourselves for our behaviour, and believe we are unworthy of being forgiven.

Go easy on him. His most pressing concern is therapy for the drug abuse, not moral complexities.

Good luck this week Rob, I'll be praying for you.
 

Rob Banks

Pelican
Blaming your issues on "Demonic Possession" basically absolves yourself of actually taking personal responsibility for your problems.

Reminds me of Flip Wilson saying, "The devil made me do that!!!"
Yeah, except I deliberately avoided using the term “demonic possession,” because that refers to something very specific.

It helps if you quote the message you’re responding to, that way I can find exactly what I said. But I’m pretty sure I used the term “demonic influence,” or something similar.

And no, acknowledging demonic influence does not in any way absolve one of responsibility for his own actions. The only way the Devil can get in your house is if you leave the door open for him.

The Devil doesn’t make you do anything. He merely encourages you to do it on your own free will.

Your theology is incorrect.
 

bmw633

Woodpecker
Yeah, except I deliberately avoided using the term “demonic possession,” because that refers to something very specific.

It helps if you quote the message you’re responding to, that way I can find exactly what I said. But I’m pretty sure I used the term “demonic influence,” or something similar.

And no, acknowledging demonic influence does not in any way absolve one of responsibility for his own actions. The only way the Devil can get in your house is if you leave the door open for him.

The Devil doesn’t make you do anything. He merely encourages you to do it on your own free will.

Your theology is incorrect.

Demonic possession, demonic influence, seems to me to be semantics. Still, your choices are YOURS to make, whether good or bad.

As far as my theology being wrong, I say who are you to make that statement? From your posts, you aren't exactly Billy Graham.
 
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