Being a scrub after college again?

[scorpion]

Many guys lament "wasting" their youth but forget that Men enter their prime SMV at a different time than Women. Women peak 18-24 while Men peak 35-45. Your best years are still ahead gentlemen. Focus on building your income now so you can enjoy it.

I'm not calling you out specifically here, but this is one of those talking points that gets repeated so often that guys don't realize it's not completely true. They think this means that a man's dating life is guaranteed to get better with age. But that conclusion does not necessarily follow at all. Here's the reality: the average 40 year old man will have more options than the average 40 year old woman. True. But the average 40 year old man will NOT have more options than the average 20 year old man. This is simply due to the fact that the 20 year old, especially if he is in college, will be effortlessly surrounded by prime SMV aged women. In contrast, as a 40 year old man you really have to go out of your way and have your shit buckled down tight just to have the same exposure (much less success) with 18-22 year old women.

College is literally a pussy paradise compared to regular life afterward. Denial of this fact does nothing to help men. If you are in college now, enjoy it while it lasts, and make an effort to maintain regular contact with a core group of college friends after you graduate. This can help you maintain a social circle as you transition into the "real world". But after you've been out of school for five years or so, you will notice a drastic decline in action, as the people you went to school with all start to get married, move away, focus seriously on their careers, etc... At that point it's up to you to start hustling if you want to maintain the kind of social life that will put you in proximity to young women. And remember, the 19 year old with the right fraternity letters on his shirt will always have more status with the hot sorority girl than you as a random 30 something guy. Regardless of how cool you come across and how tight your game is, you will be seen as "that random old guy" 99% of the time. It's a major uphill battle and you probably need to find some kind of niche/status/microfame to have success with prime-aged women as you age. Meanwhile, the 19-20 year old college guys are getting laid just by showing up. That's just the way it is. I know because I've been on both sides of that coin.

 

[Travesty]

^ I think this romanticizes fucking American college girls way too much.

I did that in college, I do it now living in Santa Barbara.

Having the smarts, income, and means to be a 35-45 location independent with $, style, and languages to go around places like Colombia, DR, SEA, Africa(probably in the next few decades more often), FSU, and so on and be banging quality chicks of all different nationalities and cultures seems more exciting to me than boning another American college party chick.

This holds doubly true if you go to an American college that isn't very diverse (i.e. just some good looking white chicks and nothing else).

This opened my eyes when a forum member visited me that lived in Moscow. I pointed out two what I thought were hot blonde college girls 21. 7.5's in my book. I said they were second shelf here, but pretty good. He said they were nothing special in Moscow.

I day game on campuses often around here. It's good quality, but really the hottest American girls aren't even on college campuses they are doing modeling, media, or something else in big cities and often times have rich parents or sugar daddies.

Also I believe if I can remember you were most likely an SEC frat guy.

Frat culture isn't nearly as strong in many other American colleges. Also many girls are still willing to fuck you being 35+. I have an RVF guy I need to meet with that is early 40s around here still boning lower 20s and we are talking about American chicks here not foreign.

 

[jake1720]

Well I have been doing cold approach since I was 16 and did extremely well at it for a long time. Infact 90%+ of my lays are from cold approach at real bars.

I have a lot of friends all over the world, including houston where I plan on working. (Family also).

I like oil and gas. Everyone goes out and drinks a lot lol.

Sounds like I'm set. Now I gotta graduate.

 

[Nascimento]

Interesting post scorpion.

I think it's a remarkable concept. A 20 year old has the best access he will likely ever have in his lifetime while in college/university.

But, the game aware 20 year old will eventually age. He will lose that access gradually to the point his access to prime women is literally 0 unless he actively does something about it.

In his favor, are things such as making money with time, more attractive as you age, more world experience, maturity as a man, better game etc.

The way I see it is that things will get easier and harder in different measures. It's always in equilibrium. Girls will be more attracted to you in general (provided you are not a mess like the average guy as you age) but if you want the prime girls you're going to have to be actively meeting them and playing a numbers game.

One thing I've noticed that is most relevant to this topic here:

Most guys in their thirties and forties and so forth reminisce about the old days when they used to do so well with girls. Now they are overweight, divorced/unfulfilling marriage and the thought of gaming prime girls doesn't even register on their mind as something realistic.

Guys I've met from the forum in their thirties and forties are on the opposite side of the spectrum. Generally speaking, things have gotten better with age. Either more success with women in all respects and/or more fulfilling relationships as opposed to when they were younger. One member has even told me that even though he did really well in college given his connections, his peak that he is still in is in the mid 30's. Though he did mention a period of struggle in the mid 20's or so.

 

[Easy_C]

OK, serious post time:

Yes, you are going to be a scrub for a bit after college. Deal with it. Your first job is probably going to be unglamorous. If you chose it well it's going to be a good learning opportunity and a good networking opportunity.

Look at it in poker terms. You just sat down at the small blinds table at a competition. You're not a big dog yet. Right now you need to be focused on stacking some chips in your pile. Do well now and you can either cash those chips out(move out of the matrix) or go all in on a bigger play(strike out with your own business later in the hopes of living like a king).

 

[berserk]

The US college model is way different than in Europe. In Europe, a lot of students are well into their late 20s. Grad students older. There are even a couple of 40-50 year old late bloomers on every course. Truth is that you can keep hanging around in universities if you want. I wouldn't mind teaching a class on something in 10 years. Doesn't have to be a top university. Just pointing out that the compartementalisation of life in neat little age brackets isn't the only way.

I had way more lays with uni girls in my late twenties and went to plenty of parties, no one thought it weird. I am sure it might seem sligthly odd if you're 35+ or 40+, but even still you could claim to be a teacher, better yet actually be a teacher or visiting lecturer. The first need is to disengage the 40-60 hour ass in chair office hamsterwheel. If you do that then provided you are smart and capable there really are unlimited ways to structure your life in ways that keep you around younger women.

 

[Brosemite]

^ I think this romanticizes fucking American college girls way too much.

I did that in college, I do it now living in Santa Barbara.

I wouldn't say he is romanticizing American college girls too much. There are certain members of the forum that value 18-22 year olds the most & reiterate that with conviction. Scorpion was likely just going off that precedent other set..merely making an example of say 18-22 year olds & access to them.

Living in Santa Barbara as a young professional is a great advantage. But it's not really that big of a deal if you can't utilize those advantages much like yourself.

Here's the reality: the average 40 year old man will have more options than the average 40 year old woman. True. But the average 40 year old man will NOT have more options than the average 20 year old man. This is simply due to the fact that the 20 year old, especially if he is in college, will be effortlessly surrounded by prime SMV aged women. In contrast, as a 40 year old man you really have to go out of your way and have your shit buckled down tight just to have the same exposure (much less success) with 18-22 year old women.

I think the word exposure is key. Most American metropolitan areas with the job or career opportunities outside of NYC are located in sprawled out car-centric areas. It kind of makes me laugh when some can easily say: "I'll marry a 24 year old when I'm 40 while living in the States" when the typical professional doesn't have the advantage of exposure. Without exposure, it's much harder to play the #s game.

How is an introverted engineer working 40-70 hours a week in the suburbs with no colleges or young female professionals around going to game talent in proximity outside of possibly making the long commute to more happening night life areas? One could argue that this person could live in a more "happenin" area while commuting to the suburbs for work. But one really has to have their lives on lockdown being able to game successfully near the city center on weekdays/weekends all while leaving the apartment early around 6AM for the 8-6 gig dealing with awful traffic, etc etc.

Let's take Dallas/Ft. Worth for example. I know some computer science grads that live/work in Grapevine near the airport. That's 25 minute highway drive to nearest vibrant college town being North Texas and another 25 minute high drive to the heart of Dallas where all the young professional women are. Those are 25 minutes commutes WITHOUT traffic...with traffic..you're looking at 45 odd minutes..even worse if highway construction is involved (there always is). There used to be a minor cougar scene in Grapevine/Southlake...but that's died out altogether for the most part.

So can someone tell me how they're dating options have naturally increased with age after college? There's a way for them to change their situation by getting involved with more young professional groups in the heart of Dallas (requires great deal of commuting) or they can likely straight up move to Dallas..but that also requires a bit of hustle waking up even earlier for work while maximizing their social time near home when not preoccupied with the full-time position.

It's definitely possible..but with more important responsibilities outside of game, you really need to have many cards stacked in your favor to incorporate great social preferences in your life. The other option is going the extra mile to ensure that those cards are indeed stacked in your favor. If it were that easy to make those changes, then we wouldn't have so many RVF members complaining about wanting out of Toronto or DC on this forum lol.

Having the smarts, income, and means to be a 35-45 location independent with $, style, and languages to go around places like Colombia, DR, SEA, Africa(probably in the next few decades more often), FSU, and so on and be banging quality chicks of all different nationalities and cultures seems more exciting to me than boning another American college party chick.

I would wholeheartedly agree with that...been there/done that with the prototypical American college scene

Frat culture isn't nearly as strong in many other American colleges. Also many girls are still willing to fuck you being 35+. I have an RVF guy I need to meet with that is early 40s around here still boning lower 20s and we are talking about American chicks here not foreign.

I would say Greek life is very big in many different American universities. With the right amount of exposure to early to mid 20's chicks for the sake of a #s game however, an older guy could definitely kill it if he had his looks, lifestyle, health, and mental game in order.

At that point it's up to you to start hustling if you want to maintain the kind of social life that will put you in proximity to young women. And remember, the 19 year old with the right fraternity letters on his shirt will always have more status with the hot sorority girl than you as a random 30 something guy. Regardless of how cool you come across and how tight your game is, you will be seen as "that random old guy" 99% of the time. It's a major uphill battle and you probably need to find some kind of niche/status/microfame to have success with prime-aged women as you age. Meanwhile, the 19-20 year old college guys are getting laid just by showing up. That's just the way it is. I know because I've been on both sides of that coin.

There are a lot of younger college chicks even involved in Greek life that give first preference to the guys they have more frequent interaction with...but many of them also look beyond their circles for mating too. An older professional could once again capitalize off that with the right exposure...perhaps a Spring Break trip, summer internship for the gal, if her college is located to good full-time employment opportunities in a major metro area, etc etc.

With regards to what you meant though, there are also many female young professionals that move into a big city wanting to re-live their college days with their old crowd in Greek life until say 25-26 before they get tired of it & get married or just branch out altogether into different dating circles. Cracking those spheres as that "random old guy" is hard enough so doing it for those still enrolled in college can be an even bigger obstacle.

Bottom line is..there is no right/wrong or black/white answer to this. I've been that beta guy in college who benefitted from being in the right circles. I've also been that guy in college who got chicks through spontaneous alpha (or drunk) moments because I had first preference from being in the right circles.

On the other hand, I have also dated college gals as a young professional from being at the right place at the right time. More often than not as a young professional however, I've had tougher times getting into the personal space of college gals because I wasn't within their comfort zone of the correct social circles.

 

[GlockTrigga]

Personally my game has improved infinitely since College. Just having a budget to go to a real bar (instead of stupid keggerators, while fun initially as a Freshman, gets old by Senior year IMHO) has worked wonders. Granted my view can be skewed because I went to college in Philly (terrible in terms of pool of attractive Women) but grew up in NYC and returned after graduation.

So if you went to a college in a big city and returned to your small town yeah things are gonna suck until you can get a job in the big city again. Much of this could be geographical which is the exact problem an app I am working on seeks to address. However, regardless on average there will be a dip in your 20's. Prime working years = Prime money = Prime Women usually.

And if you are an engineer who knows. Many of those guys don't even peak until late 40's then go wild. If you still have the energy and health, by all means do it and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

 

[The_CEO]

As an aside I would not use the word "Scrub" and definitely not for your self-description.

My understanding is it's slang derived from a pop song and moreover the ONLY time I've come across it prior to this, is on Tinder where I've seen it in women's profiles: "No scrubs!"

In fact I swiped left on them, not because I'm a 'scrub' but it raised a red flag that they're using, in my view, a trashy level of slang, and also denigrating certain guys in their profile.

 

[scorpion]

The point I was making was not that it's impossible for a man's options to increase after college, but simply that it will take work and won't happen by itself. I suspect that the whole "mean peak in their 30s and 40s" is said by a lot of younger guys as a sort coping mechanism to help them deal with their lack of success in college. I just want to point out to these guys that just because your options will increase relative to women as you age, does not mean they will increase absolutely. To illustrate it mathematically:

SMV power scores:

20 year old woman: 100
20 year old man: 70

40 year old woman: 10
40 year old man: 40

(Note that SMV power score doesn't have a strict definition, the change of the values is what I'm pointing out).

So what happens as a man ages is that his SMV increases drastically relative to women around his own age, but actually declines relative to his own SMV power score as a 20 year old man, especially when it comes to attracting 20 year old women. The takeaway is that if you want to have success with young women as you age, do not simply assume it will happen automatically just because you're getting older. You need to plan your lifestyle and put in serious effort into your logistics, game, wardrobe/style, and social circle. I'm trying to dispel the notion that guys are just able show up at college bars at age 35 or 40 and regularly take home hot sorority girls, or any college girls for that matter. It just doesn't work that way. It takes a lot of effort for a 40 year old man to artificially create the sexual options that exist naturally for a 20 year old college student.

 

[GlockTrigga]

Scorpion I'll have to respectfully disagree.

My Father is 50 years old and pulling more 20 year olds than me. Anywhere from 30-40% Women will always prefer an older Man. Some prefer vastly older. Usually it's because of their no-non sense approach, abundance aura and dismissal of shit tests as immaturity. Perhaps we just need to realize that other factors such as Geography, Income trajectory and Personality improvements over time can create some standard deviation from the norm. However, my experiences in reading in the Manosphere from greats such as Hearste and others is the complete opposite of your opinion.

History has also proven that in each great era one thing was common: Older Men controlled everything and stood on the top of the totem pole. Even pre-civilization, they are leaders of the tribe, the de facto Alpha male. Today is no different. How many old wall street bankers and other moguls have been accused of "Robbing the cradle" getting themselves a fine Brazilian honey that none of us could hope to acquire?

Compare them with some of their financial rivals in the "New Money" of younger tech entrepreneurs. Do you see them pulling 9s and 10s from anywhere in the World? Whether it be experience from age or resources that come from prime working years which attract these Women, I find it hard to believe that a Man's prime is in his 20's when he has no professional achievements, rep, or financial assets. All of which Women judge a Man's value upon.

Yeah you may pull a few number 6's and 7's at a busted frat party, but are you really saying college grants you access to the highest quality valuable young Women? No. Look at an Sugar Daddy website. Those are the dudes who are pulling the finest poon of the latest crop of spring chickens.

 

[scorpion]

Are you even reading my posts? How many times do I have to say it isn't impossible, just that it takes work. You seem to understand this because you use guys on sugar daddy websites as your example, and note that "professional achievements, rep, or financial assets" are important for attracting women when you're older.

The point is that the 20 year old man doesn't need to do anything except show up, while the 40 year old man needs to have managed his life successfully in order to achieve continual success with prime women as he ages. If your father is able to do that at 50, he's obviously put in the work as a man over the years to put himself in that position. The average 50 year old man cannot even hope to fuck a 20 year old 5 or 6 without paying for it, much less an 8 or 9. And it's stupid not to recognize that even with strong game and fitness, a 50 year old man had better be prepared to bring monetary and social value to the table as well if he wants to continue bedding young women.

This is just reality. I'm trying to warn young guys away from just assuming their dating/sex lives will magically improve as they age, allowing them to easily attract prime aged women. That just doesn't happen. If they want that success, they will have to improve themselves. Women do like older men, but they don't like older men because they are old (rare fetishes excepted). They like older men because older men tend to have more money, higher status, more dominant personalities and are more experienced with women (pre-selected). If you are simply an older man but you don't have any of those things, prime aged women aren't even going to look at you, much less fuck you.

 

[GlockTrigga]

The point is that the 20 year old man doesn't need to do anything except show up, while the 40 year old man needs to have managed his life successfully in order to achieve continual success with prime women as he ages. If your father is able to do that at 50, he's obviously put in the work as a man over the years to put himself in that position. The average 50 year old man cannot even hope to fuck a 20 year old 5 or 6 without paying for it, much less an 8 or 9. And it's stupid not to recognize that even with strong game and fitness, a 50 year old man had better be prepared to bring monetary and social value to the table as well if he wants to continue bedding young women.

Dude you are WAY off base here. He and his co-workers are not even making that much money. He works for city transportation here in NYC and probably makes 65k at most. Yeah he gets a pension but my crackhead step-mother is battling to get half of that (a common situation among union workers). So these girls know they aren't gonna get a ton of money from him.

8's and 9's hit on him in his work uniform. He doesn't have to do ANYTHING.

What reality do you live in? All a 20 year old has to do is "show up"??? LMAOOOO

I'm done here brah, you're outta yer mind.

 

[scorpion]

Your father is a city bus driver who is married to a crackhead and effortlessly pulls 8s and 9s on the reg?

I'm sorry, have you mistaken the RVF for some kind of game fan fiction forum? Get the fuck out of here with your lies and exaggerations.

 

[LINUX]

College is literally a pussy paradise compared to regular life afterward. Denial of this fact does nothing to help men. If you are in college now, enjoy it while it lasts, and make an effort to maintain regular contact with a core group of college friends after you graduate. This can help you maintain a social circle as you transition into the "real world". But after you've been out of school for five years or so, you will notice a drastic decline in action, as the people you went to school with all start to get married, move away, focus seriously on their careers, etc... At that point it's up to you to start hustling if you want to maintain the kind of social life that will put you in proximity to young women. And remember, the 19 year old with the right fraternity letters on his shirt will always have more status with the hot sorority girl than you as a random 30 something guy. Regardless of how cool you come across and how tight your game is, you will be seen as "that random old guy" 99% of the time. It's a major uphill battle and you probably need to find some kind of niche/status/microfame to have success with prime-aged women as you age. Meanwhile, the 19-20 year old college guys are getting laid just by showing up. That's just the way it is. I know because I've been on both sides of that coin.

Sorry Scorpion. I like a lot of your post on this board but I'm going to completely disagree with everything you are saying and I've been on both sides of the coin also. I even played college ball and I get more pussy in my 30's than I ever have in my life. Maybe I would agree with you if a man was a stud in college and he let his body go to shit, but for my sake and many other people I roll with, your thoughts are simply not true.

 

[General Mayhem]

I am going to back scorpion here.

He is simply saying that you have greater access to hot young women in college than you do elsewhere. I'm not sure how anyone is going to disagree with this. There are hot college girls who live in my apartment building. There are more in the gym on campus, and a ton scattered throughout campus at any given moment. In the class I am sitting in right now I can count about 20 girls that I know dudes on here would would bang.

I don't have to do put in any work to meet girls. That is scorpion's first point.

His second point is that age alone will not get you bangs.

Take a 20 year-old college kid and a 35 year-old man with the same level of game and put them both in a college bar. The 20 year-old will blow the 35 year-old out of the water. It won't even be close. It blows my mind that people are even arguing this.

I'm not in my thirties yet but I think it is ridiculous to expect that you will automatically become superhuman.

I expect to have to work very hard at improving my life to be able to have access to a lot of hot young girls when I am in my thirties.

As far as I can tell everyone who is killing it in their thirties and after on this forum has put an insane amount of work into becoming the kind of man who can still pull young chicks. Gio is a great example. I don't think Gio pulls young girls because he is old. I think he pulls them because he has put a crazy amount of effort into being the kind of man who is attractive to younger girls.

I think people need to be more honest with themselves.

 

[LINUX]

Take a 20 year-old college kid and a 35 year-old man with the same level of game and put them both in a college bar. The 20 year-old will blow the 35 year-old out of the water. It won't even be close. It blows my mind that people are even arguing this.

You are talking about a college bar GM. I am not. I am referring to life outside that college bar. The age group that a 20 year old can have sex with and the age group that a 35 year old can have sex with are largely different. When you get in your 30's you will understand.

 

[TravelerKai]

Are you even reading my posts? How many times do I have to say it isn't impossible, just that it takes work. You seem to understand this because you use guys on sugar daddy websites as your example, and note that "professional achievements, rep, or financial assets" are important for attracting women when you're older.

The point is that the 20 year old man doesn't need to do anything except show up, while the 40 year old man needs to have managed his life successfully in order to achieve continual success with prime women as he ages. If your father is able to do that at 50, he's obviously put in the work as a man over the years to put himself in that position. The average 50 year old man cannot even hope to fuck a 20 year old 5 or 6 without paying for it, much less an 8 or 9. And it's stupid not to recognize that even with strong game and fitness, a 50 year old man had better be prepared to bring monetary and social value to the table as well if he wants to continue bedding young women.

This is just reality. I'm trying to warn young guys away from just assuming their dating/sex lives will magically improve as they age, allowing them to easily attract prime aged women. That just doesn't happen. If they want that success, they will have to improve themselves. Women do like older men, but they don't like older men because they are old (rare fetishes excepted). They like older men because older men tend to have more money, higher status, more dominant personalities and are more experienced with women (pre-selected). If you are simply an older man but you don't have any of those things, prime aged women aren't even going to look at you, much less fuck you.

Scorpion is right. In my college days, I would walk around campus in my BJJ gi, dripping with sweat, smelling like ballsacks because I wrestled 20 dudes the hour prior, with no undershirt on underneath and walk up to girls like I did not give a flying fuck. Pulled a hot 9ish Delta sorority black chick like that. I used to approach like this to what ended up being my ex wife. Back then when I did not really know her I would have conversations with her just like that, and back then she was fine and not fat. My roomate had a huge crush on her, and I bet him 10 dollars I could pull her before he did. I guess I ended up losing that bet in the end but still...the point remains.

College is a trip. I had a meathead/athlete caveman like game back then. Very unsophisticated. All I did was show up most of the time. Don't even get me started on going to football games. That's even easier. Because I did not need real game and struck out maybe 2 times ever, I was woefully unprepared after I hit the market after the divorce, despite looking the same if not actually better, and well earning.

Don't even get me started on the layups that I fucked up on.

Better enjoy it young bucks. You can go from being another cool dude to a creepy old alumni in a heartbeat.

 

[lavidaloca]

Part of the equation is location dependent. I'd think a fit 35 year old with a good income allowing him to dress well and groom well would beat most 25 year olds in places where incomes are typically lower i.e. South America, SEA, Caribbean etc. However, I think it's overstated when guys expect to do better with woman in their mid 40's than their 20's. Sure if you are rap mogul or own a popular nightclub you would do better but that simply isn't going to happen for 98% of us.

Best way to do it is live well, but keep on saving and investing and when you are 40's to leave the west. I can't understand why anyone in their 40's would want to stay here woman wise. Being location independent is nice but if you look at the general demographics of guys you see travelling non stop that don't end up back home after a year even on the forum almost all are 35+ years old. (Outside of English teachers living abroad)

I don't believe for a second this guy's 50 year old dad is slaying more 20 years than him unless hes getting nothing. Do I believe some 50 year olds could? For sure! Do I think a 50 year old in SEA would do that easily for sure. But in the US based on the picture painted it's quite improbable although I'd like to believe it.

 

[Travesty]

I think the vast majority of guys can bang higher quality and more 18-22yo up to age 40 if they play their cards right than they did in college.

I am just going to state the top pussy wrangler I knew in college got around 20 lays his freshman year and I am going to guess in the neighborhood of 50 or so over his college career. This was at Prince Review's rated top party school that year i.e. easy to get laid.

Hans Dix an ex-member of this forum who's game seems very credible I believe was at 30ish college lays going into his senior year.

My count in college wasn't nearly as high. In the last two years I have banged on par with the 2 of them as far as young 18-22 college age chicks.

I would consider those two in the top 5% (extremely conservative probably more like top 1%) of college guys that get laid as examples. One a natural the other a natural with RVF knowledge to boot.

So yes for the top of the very top it will be best in college and hard to maintain, but even for those guys if they add $, languages, and logistics it can even be better in a big city your pond is gigantic if you can make enough free time for yourself. Plus your body and style and game should all even be better.

For me at least controlling frame and dominating interactions with young chicks is about 20 times easier than it was when I was their age.

LINUX got 16 bangs in how many weeks in Colombia recently? I don't know a single guy personally or on RVF that while going to a U.S. college that ever put up those type of numbers. Most guys that young don't have the options, experience, or wisdom to go travelling to Colombia and rack up like that.