Being Dad at an Old Age..What's Real and What's Myth

PUA_Rachacha

Woodpecker
Just for reference guys, I'm 41 and have a 32-year-old wife. We have two children, one born when I was 38, the other born this year. We're probably going to have one more, probably when I turn 42. That means the last kid will be out of the house when I turn 60. That will also be the year I likely retire.

I have not found parenting to be that hard at all, especially with the second child. The first one was a steep learning curve, and she had colic, so that was a challenge. The second one has been a breeze and is the happiest baby on the block, to quote Harvey Karp.

I am never really tired, but do lament that my free time has gone down to almost nothing since the birth of the second child. Things that I did before, e.g., make repairs around the house, etc. I don't have time for anymore, so I find myself outsourcing more of this work.

There are a few caveats to the above:

1) My wife is a homemaker. Her full-time job is the children and the household;
2) She cooks all the meals, but I am her sous chef and help out whenever I can. I also prepare my daughter's meals from time-to-time;
3) I generally watch the toddler on the weekends, my wife concentrates on the infant;
4) I'm responsible for bath time and bedtime for the both of them, so that my wife can clean up after supper;
5) COVID has me working from home, thus I can assist a lot more. Things would've been stressful if I had to go into the office every day;
6) I'm on TRT. I do believe it gives you youthful energy, and thus I never really feel tired. It also compels me to work out, so I'm in good health.

So, to conclude if you're somebody who doesn't think you should have children past the age of 40, I can attest to the fact that it is actually not tiring to have kids, provided that: 1) you have a younger wife; 2) she stays at home with the children; 3) you have a good-paying job that allows you to outsource some of the ancillary tasks you don't have time for anymore; 4) you're on TRT of have your testosterone in check; and 5) you're in good shape. I think potential landmines are when both parents work (so much more stress trying to juggle the children and tasks), your wife is older and doesn't have the energy, your hormones aren't in check and you start letting yourself go.
 

Elmore

Kingfisher
Seriously. I have a black friend who has I believe 5 kids. The guy makes minimum wage. It's like the intro to Idiocracy where the upper middle class white couple thinks way too hard about the ideal circumstances for having kids, while the rest of the world is pumping out multiple babies. Travel to any poor country, and you will see tons and tons of children everywhere. Kids are not expensive. Giving kids Nintendo Switches and American Girl dolls, spoiling them with everything they ask for, and living out your unfulfilled dreams by making them study snow skiing and cello lessons is.

I do want to provide for my kids, and being financially secure and mentally mature is a *positive*, but the reality is having kids is simple, and if you can insert tab A into slot B, you will figure out the rest as you go.

This is so true.

The neuroticism, selfishness & hypocrisy of the White Middle Classes has always been a major problem in society that malign forces have exacerbated.

Of course they will paint this selfishness as 'being responsible' but vast majority of these people that have no, or very small, families, just want more money to spend on themselves & to live a more self centred life.

Fact is if the male-female aspect of a group is in check, & women are playing a purely maternalistic role, then having kids & large families couldn't be easier these days. Look at how the Muslims cope in the West. The man (and the Welfare State) provide finances, the women the child-rearing.

Nationalists and Dissident Right types have countless hours of content sperging about 'muh demographics' yet so few of them have kids, its beyond pathetic. They could play the Welfare State the way the Third Worlders do, but fact is most of them are childless middle age NEETs that spend their endless free time playing video games & chasing Online Dopamine hits for 'based takes'.
 

Days of Broken Arrows

Crow
Gold Member
Children of older fathers statistically have a higher risk for mental illness. This is something that's been known in scientific communities since the 1990s.

The reason is said to be that the quality of sperm degrades as men age. But it's not that bad, relatively speaking. To give this some perspective, the odds of having a mentally ill child as an older dad are way lower than the odds of having a child with Down Syndrome as an older mother.

But it's still a factor. Below is a link to a New York Times story about this. And, yes, I know they're biased, but as I said, this is something that's been known for a long while.

Every time I post this in manosphere circles, I get major blowback. But my feeling is that men need to realistically assess risks and be prepared for difficulties ahead -- whether than means loading up on supplies before a storm or planning to have a child.

 
Children of older fathers statistically have a higher risk for mental illness. This is something that's been known in scientific communities since the 1990s.

The reason is said to be that the quality of sperm degrades as men age. But it's not that bad, relatively speaking. To give this some perspective, the odds of having a mentally ill child as an older dad are way lower than the odds of having a child with Down Syndrome as an older mother.

But it's still a factor. Below is a link to a New York Times story about this. And, yes, I know they're biased, but as I said, this is something that's been known for a long while.

Every time I post this in manosphere circles, I get major blowback. But my feeling is that men need to realistically assess risks and be prepared for difficulties ahead -- whether than means loading up on supplies before a storm or planning to have a child.

Could it be that dads with autism have kids later than neurotypical dads?
 

Feyoder

Kingfisher
Children of older fathers statistically have a higher risk for mental illness. This is something that's been known in scientific communities since the 1990s.

The reason is said to be that the quality of sperm degrades as men age. But it's not that bad, relatively speaking. To give this some perspective, the odds of having a mentally ill child as an older dad are way lower than the odds of having a child with Down Syndrome as an older mother.

But it's still a factor. Below is a link to a New York Times story about this. And, yes, I know they're biased, but as I said, this is something that's been known for a long while.

Every time I post this in manosphere circles, I get major blowback. But my feeling is that men need to realistically assess risks and be prepared for difficulties ahead -- whether than means loading up on supplies before a storm or planning to have a child.


Swedish study with analysis done by the nyt. Sure, it could be a non-biased assessment of the data but I doubt it. Also, they looked at men over 45. I wonder if this is because men at this age are more likely to have an older woman (especially in sweden).

Indeed the average age of the women for 45 year old men was 32 (in the study supplement). Yet the conclusion of the study is that men's age is responsible (even though there are many studies showing what an older mother does to a child and the degradation of her reproductive system over time.)

Also, it's not like they are looking at the sperm of older men and comparing it to younger men, they're taking millions of Swedish data points and using creative statistical analysis to some conclusion.

I've attached and linked the study supplement where they list the covariables including maternal age. Maybe someone a little smarter, and a little better at stats can break down just how much BS is here.

One of the listed Swedish authors of the study. I don't know her contribution:

 

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AlwaysMe

Sparrow
My wife and I had our first when we were both 30 and our last when we were both 43. All kids are healthy and the pregnancies were all p;roblem free, so I cant comment on that issue (although I beleive health issues are overwhelmingly based on age of mother)

But I can tell you that as a 50 year old father of a 7 year old, I am far happier to be with my child than as a 37 year old father. Im more mature, happier with the kids "childish" ways, I take more pleasure in their taking pleasure; I appreciate everything about kids a toil more. Sometimes when my eldest was this age I remember being grouchy, grumpy, impatient, wanting to be elsewhere and just being an unappreciative dick generally. I can only shudder at what I would've been had I been a father at 20 or 25.

Now, as an older father (Im 50 now), Im just happier and more patient with my 7 year old. The good news is, I dont think I was such as an asshole back in the day that my oldest noticed. Apparently, she didnt. So thats good. But I just enjoy life as a Dad much more now.
 
You know what I hear a lot of? Almost EVERY SINGLE married guy friend complains about his marriage, tells me to never get married (even the "happy" ones will say it "jokingly?"), and laments about their lack of free time and money.
This is so universal it's almost funny. I remember in high school, I was in my friend's garage, shooting the shit of sorts. I remember it, because his Dad was there, and being rather candid and cool with us, which I always envied because my own father was hopelessly beta and detached. The subject of the weekend came up, and his father sighed, and said they would be busy all weekend. His son rolls his eyes, and his Dad sighs again, and says, "We don't get much sleep around here", and walked away in a sort of resigned fashion. At that point in time, I assumed his mom was just a pain, but after being in an LTR and observing my married friends, I always come back to that memory and it makes more sense every time.

In this age, the hard truth I believe is that a healthy, strong man can likely live a much funner, more entertaining life without the burdens of marriage and children. I mean, look at just the wealth of activities, hobbies, lifestyles, and opportunities available to the middle and even working classes, which simply didn't exist, or were unattainable for all but the rich 50, certainly 75, 100 years ago. Most men throughout history never had to make this decision, because marriage and children were ingrained practices in survival, religious obligations, and even economic incentives. I believe this another reason for the declining mental state of women in the west, and the resulting feminism and such... they know they aren't "needed" anymore from a support and survival aspect, and it subconsciously drives them crazy.

I'm not saying children aren't enormously rewarding, but there is a certain FOMO while becoming a husband and father that really wasn't on the radar for previous generations.
 
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kel

Ostrich
Finally decided to weigh in on this conversation. I’m 54, my wife is 14 years younger. We have a 5 and a 2 year old. I’m having a blast.

Very good to hear she was able to conceive successfully at 35 (without a prior pregnancy!) and 38 and (presumably) both mother and babies are healthy. Encouraging.
 

Blade Runner

Pelican
Women are extremely envious of time (remember Patrice O'Neal's "Time Vampires" line?). When kids come around, this is exponentially multiplied by their advanced age, if in fact that is the case.
 

Cervantes

Woodpecker
My oldest children were born when I was in my mid 20s. The youngest were born in my mid 40s.

There are real differences in the kind of father you are in the different decades. As a younger father I played with my kids more - carrying them, bouncing them, running with them. I also got down on the ground and played with toys them more.

I do that with the younger ones - but I do get tired of it sooner, and do it less than I used to.

On the other hand I'm a better father now in a lot of ways: I know much more than I did. I understand what is going on with them more because I've seen a lot of the stages before. I'm give them stricter discipline which I realize now is more important than when I was almost a kid myself. The younger ones are being raised in a more faith centered environment.

I also have a lot of cool skills that I didn't have - years of Christmas decorating, halloween costume making, science experiments. I know all the best books for every age. So the younger ones benefit.

When people ask if its better to have kids younger or older, my advice is start young and continue to have them all the way through to the 40's and 50's.
 

rainy

Kingfisher
Seems to me the men have it easier. I'm mid-late 30's and have a 30 month old and a 7 month old. My brother is mid 30's and who I work with, has a 12 yr old, a 6 yr old and a 1 yr old.

We get up early, head off to work and don't get home until 6-7PM. I don't know what he does at that time with his kids....apparently not much.... but I change and then take my 30 month old son off my wife's shoulders. Play with him, bathe him and put him to sleep. Do some cooking, clean up, etc.

But our wives? Breastfeeding every few hours thru the night for months on end. My wife literally didn't get 5 straight hours of sleep for the first 6+ months after either of our children we born. Now she's up at 6 every morning as that's when our son has decided his days will start. Then she's essentially juggling both for the next 12-13 hrs until I get home, on top of house work, cleaning, cooking, grocery shopping, going to parks, etc. Due to COVID children's programs here went out of business and pre schools aren't open for 2-3 yr olds. So she does this all alone, day after day until I can help more on the weekend.

I have it easy. Out working and earning all day. Play with my son for a few hours. Then do a little work on the computer at night while everyone's sleeping.

But my wife is a foreigner and fully accepts her role as a stay at home mom who does all she can to raise our kids. And I think that role works best. The wife is the nurturer, the loving caregiver. The father brings home the bread. So I'd say the age of the mother is more important than the age of the father. Need a wife who can handle the exhaustion day after day while still remaining, strong, calm and loving. And being a little older and being a higher earner will make your wife's job easier as you can hire a maid, get a nanny to help for a few hrs, etc.
 
My wife and I had our first child when I was 39 and she was 33. Our second was born 16 months later. She stays home and homeschools the kids while I provide the means. While this is, by far, the most rewarding thing either of us has ever done, we both agree that we should have done it many years ago. We are both healthy, but, especially at 44 (now), my energy levels just are not what they once were. It takes more effort to keep up with two young kids. She is younger, but doing this in her mid 20's would have been much easier, physically. From the financial aspect, it is almost trivial now compared to what it would have been 10 years ago, but I'll be 60 when my oldest turns 20. My parents are 76 now, in relatively good health and mind, but still, my kids will have their grandparents for only a short part of their lives.

Find a good wife, easier said than done I know, and start your family while you're younger. It's the most rewarding thing you will ever do, and most of us can't fathom it until we have done it. You can do it later, but you will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Best of luck, lads, and Merry Christmas!!!
 

PUA_Rachacha

Woodpecker
My wife and I had our first child when I was 39 and she was 33. Our second was born 16 months later. She stays home and homeschools the kids while I provide the means. While this is, by far, the most rewarding thing either of us has ever done, we both agree that we should have done it many years ago. We are both healthy, but, especially at 44 (now), my energy levels just are not what they once were. It takes more effort to keep up with two young kids. She is younger, but doing this in her mid 20's would have been much easier, physically. From the financial aspect, it is almost trivial now compared to what it would have been 10 years ago, but I'll be 60 when my oldest turns 20. My parents are 76 now, in relatively good health and mind, but still, my kids will have their grandparents for only a short part of their lives.

Find a good wife, easier said than done I know, and start your family while you're younger. It's the most rewarding thing you will ever do, and most of us can't fathom it until we have done it. You can do it later, but you will kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

Best of luck, lads, and Merry Christmas!!!
All of what you say is true, but I would caveat that monetary issues rear their ugly head when you're first starting out with your career. Money is one of the pillars of a relationship, and when there isn't much to go around, it causes a lot of stress. Frankly, every friend of mine that married before the age of 27 ultimately divorced, partially because of money issues.

Most of my friends became fathers in their early 30s when they had a stable career with a good paycheck. This is better than trying to have kids in your 20s, unless you meet a woman who cares nothing about money and is fine with clipping coupons for many years. I feel like those halcyon days are behind us.

Since I'm in my early 40s with a good career, I was able to offer my wife the option of becoming a stay-at-home mom, which she took and is happy with her role. I think a lot of wives would like to stay at home with the young children, but those damn money issues force her to work at some thankless job. You remove a lot of stress when you never have to argue about money.

And regarding grandparents: if you marry a younger woman like I did, her parents are only 60, so my kids will get to enjoy a good amount of time with them. My mom is 66 and in very good shape, so my kids should hopefully get 15 good years with her. Unfortunately my father passed about 15 years ago.
 

Laner

Hummingbird
Gold Member
I am packing up to leave my parents place, after spending the past two weeks up here. Being around my siblings, my 62yo old parents, and my 3 nephews and my niece, has given me a bit more insight into older parenthood. My wife and I are 41.

The physical aspect is still there for me, but in shorter bursts. This doesn't really matter as kids will outplay you no matter your age. My parents have a wrestling room and each morning I would take my son and his cousins into the room, crank the stereo and work out. As a reward after, we would all wrestle. Its a lot of work, but its also a lot of fun. My bursts are shorter these days, but I can also tell that the kids are elated to have me smash them around for a while. When I need a break, we work on basic jits moves and they practice on each other. Getting down and dirty isn't necessary all the time, as I find its more important to just be present with kids.

I think I mentioned here before that one downside of being an old parent is the riffing that a kid will take from his classmates. I live in a high density urban environment so parents tend to skew older, but I am from a rural area where my friends are graduating their kids. Their wives are still hot. This has an effect on their boys, as its always helpful to have a hot mom and a cool, tough dad. Being mid 50's when your kid is in high school isn't ideal, for your kids reps sake.
 

rainy

Kingfisher
I lean towards wanting a 3rd. My wife and I have talked about it recently. At 40 her recovery from our daughter born in May has been much tougher. She doesn't think she can physically handle another pregnancy.

It's also tougher to recover when you have a 2 yr old bouncing off the walls who also requires her attention.

But I also recognize at 40 the risk of down syndrome goes up a bit.

It would be helpful if our oldest was in preschool but that's not an option due to COVID until next Sept at the earliest.

In general I think it's tough to only have one child. And a mistake. Either you never have children or you should have multiple. I'm just now seeing the beginnings of my two playing together. It feels more complete. If I could do it all over again I'd have tried for kids earlier although my wife miscarried the first. I think I was about 33 at that point. So start trying around 30. The need for a good paying job is real though. My wife doesn't have to work. It's tight but we manage. If you can't support a stay at home mom I'd wait. I'm not a fan of my friends who pretty much dump their infants in daycare for 8 hrs per day. A requirement for me is the wife raising the children. Not someone else.

My sister works 40 hours per week to be able to pay the daycare bills for her youngest. Sometimes she doesn't even break even. She actually loses money on paying someone else to raise her toddler. She would save money just raising him herself. Doesn't even like her job. But she and her husband aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.
 
I am packing up to leave my parents place, after spending the past two weeks up here. Being around my siblings, my 62yo old parents, and my 3 nephews and my niece, has given me a bit more insight into older parenthood. My wife and I are 41.

The physical aspect is still there for me, but in shorter bursts. This doesn't really matter as kids will outplay you no matter your age. My parents have a wrestling room and each morning I would take my son and his cousins into the room, crank the stereo and work out. As a reward after, we would all wrestle. Its a lot of work, but its also a lot of fun. My bursts are shorter these days, but I can also tell that the kids are elated to have me smash them around for a while. When I need a break, we work on basic jits moves and they practice on each other. Getting down and dirty isn't necessary all the time, as I find its more important to just be present with kids.

I think I mentioned here before that one downside of being an old parent is the riffing that a kid will take from his classmates. I live in a high density urban environment so parents tend to skew older, but I am from a rural area where my friends are graduating their kids. Their wives are still hot. This has an effect on their boys, as its always helpful to have a hot mom and a cool, tough dad. Being mid 50's when your kid is in high school isn't ideal, for your kids reps sake.
My Dad was early 40s when I was born, my Mum 12 years younger. Had two healthy kids who have gone onto stable pathways.

Dad was the main breadwinner, and Mum worked during school hours until I was 12. Grandparents were around enough to help out. As a family we were lower middle class, and over time were firmly in the middle class. We were a one car household until I was 8, and my mother got her licence, and my father bought her a new Hyundai Excel.

What I notice is that well adjusted kids have well adjusted parents. Your partner needs to be pragmatic for the best chances of success.
 
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